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Last post 3 years ago by delta1. 236 replies replies.
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So far it’s a monumental nothing burger
delta1 Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
dstieger wrote:
I don't think there has been a single new quote or thought about this since Sep 25 when the transcript was released. What a fn waste of time.

My fanciful hope is that 18 or 19 GOP senators finally decide to get off Trump's d|ck and vote to impeach. And then the impeached Trump gets elected next November. If it weren't for the limited entertainment value, this crapshow would have zero value at all...may as well kick it up a notch


lots of details regarding the depth, duration and scope of this scheme to exert pressure on Ukraine for Trump's political advantage by withholding approved US military aid were testified to by numerous witnesses, including WH staff, State Dept. and NSC personnel assigned to the WH, diplomatic personnel assigned to Ukraine, including several appointed by Trump...

They added important details to prove this was a concerted and complex plan, involving many layers of the Trump administration, including VP Pence, Pompeo, Ambassador Sondland and others in the State Dept., AG Barr, Energy Secty Perry, Giuliani and his goons ....

and not a one-off event characterized by the infamous phone call where Trump's own words acknowledged the scheme...


important details would've been testified to but the Trump WH ordered their people (Mulvaney, OMB staff with knowledge of the decision and plan to withhold the Ukrainian aid money, Perry, Pompeo, Giuliani, et al) to ignore Congressional subpoenas
dstieger Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
delta1 wrote:

important details


????
I musta stopped paying attention

Transcript showed Trump wanted U to look at Biden kid.....it's the central fact...the only important fact...and a fact that hasn't really been disputed by anyone in a remotely convincing way....everything since has been superfluous noise as far as I'm concerned.

On Sep 27, you or I could have easily written a script that says:
"this is going be what the dems finally use to impeach in the house -- and the senate won't convict"

What has changed from all the 'testimony' and hearings and whatever the flock is going on up there?

victor809 Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dstieger wrote:


On Sep 27, you or I could have easily written a script that says:
"this is going be what the dems finally use to impeach in the house -- and the senate won't convict"



You're not wrong here....

This statement will hold true no matter what. Honestly... shoot a guy on 5th ave? rape a child on the white house desk in front of journalists? Meh. Senate won't convict.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
dstieger wrote:
What has changed from all the 'testimony' and hearings and whatever the flock is going on up there?



The American taxpayer was fleeced and decent legislation didn't get passed. Oh, and Congress didn't do it's most important task...they didn't introduce a budget!
delta1 Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
dstieger wrote:
????
I musta stopped paying attention

Transcript showed Trump wanted U to look at Biden kid.....it's the central fact...the only important fact...and a fact that hasn't really been disputed by anyone in a remotely convincing way....everything since has been superfluous noise as far as I'm concerned.

On Sep 27, you or I could have easily written a script that says:
"this is going be what the dems finally use to impeach in the house -- and the senate won't convict"

What has changed from all the 'testimony' and hearings and whatever the flock is going on up there?



facts will matter in a historical sense...and impeachments are always analyzed historically because they are so rare....these events mandate a thorough fact -finding...

Starr investigated Clinton for a couple of years and produced a voluminous report to justify the Clinton impeachment...

those investigating and impeaching Nixon were on course to do the same...

because they are political events, the side doing the impeaching has an obligation to show why the most important fact was wrongdoing on the part of POTUS...that aspect of the important fact is in dispute...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
delta1 wrote:
facts will matter in a historical sense...and impeachments are always analyzed historically because they are so rare....these events mandate a thorough fact -finding...


What facts are we talking about? The one's where the Executive Branch can and has operated as it's own branch, the one where a sitting President cannot cross-examine nor enter witnesses? Better yet, the facts that are irrefutable only because they say so?

delta1 wrote:
Starr investigated Clinton for a couple of years and produced a voluminous report to justify the Clinton impeachment...


And he found Clinton guilty of 11 crimes that cost him to be disbarred, lose his law license and pay a fine at the lest because his low moral character wouldn't allow him to walk away from the free intern BJ's!


delta1 wrote:
those investigating and impeaching Nixon were on course to do the same...


And he walked away before any charges would actually be called out. He had the moral character to save the office from the Impeachment process.


delta1 wrote:
because they are political events, the side doing the impeaching has an obligation to show why the most important fact was wrongdoing on the part of POTUS...that aspect of the important fact is in dispute...


Here all this time I thought the bar was actually set a lot higher than "Because I said so"!
DrafterX Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Democrats have tried to impeach the lasr 5 of 6 past Republicans... this is fact.. this is expected even... there's
already plans to pursue impeachment after he wins in 2020... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Democrats have tried to impeach the lasr 5 of 6 past Republicans... this is fact.. this is expected even... there's
already plans to pursue impeachment after he wins in 2020... Mellow


And over the exact same time period republicans have tried to impeach 2 of the 3 democrat presidents.

Kind of a dumb statistic don't you think?
DrafterX Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Not at all... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
Democrats have tried to impeach the lasr 5 of 6 past Republicans... this is fact.. this is expected even... there's
already plans to pursue impeachment after he wins in 2020... Mellow

are you including Ford in the 6 or going back to Ike?
HA!

Doesn't ring a bell for me.
delta1 Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Trump's wrong-doing goes deeper than "just looking into the Biden kid"... it is just the most recent development of a three year mission...

an honest historical review of Trump's behavior will show that he has resisted the intelligence finding that Russia interfered in the 2016 elections to his benefit...and that he publicly encouraged them to do so during his campaign...

his personal attorney, Rudy G, and his henchmen, started a scheme from the early days of his presidency to discredit the US intelligence agencies' assessment that Russia interfered in the election to hurt Hillary's chances and to help Trump...by trying to build a case to prove Putin's propaganda: it was not Russia that meddled in the US elections - it was Ukraine...

Putin has publicly launched the conspiracy theory that it was Ukraine who interfered in the elections by floating misinformation about DNC servers, "Crowdstrike" and connections between Hillary's associates and "corrupt" Ukrainians ...on Trump's behalf, Giuliani took the bait and he and his bagmen began travelling to Ukraine to dig up the "dirt"


as the 2020 elections got closer and Biden emerged as a top political rival and there was a Biden-Ukraine connection...here we are...
DrafterX Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ford didn't get impeached... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
Ford didn't get impeached... Mellow

neither did Ike, Reagan, or either of the Bush Boys.
a couple of renegade dems yakking about it is hardly the same as the Dems tried to Impeach 5 out of 6 though.

Now with Nixon, there was bipartisan support.
victor809 Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
frankj1 wrote:
neither did Ike, Reagan, or either of the Bush Boys.
a couple of renegade dems yakking about it is hardly the same as the Dems tried to Impeach 5 out of 6 though.

Now with Nixon, there was bipartisan support.


to be fair to drafter, there were "impeachment attempts". All that's required for an attempt is for a single congressperson to introduce a bill for impeachment. So there were bills of impeachment introduced for Nixon (duh), Reagan (for Iran Contra), bush sr (for starting the Gulf War), and trump (duh)...

The Bush Jr impeachment talks didn't get to that stage.

Of course over that same period we only had 3 dem presidents, and impeachment attempts were made on clinton (ironically introduced by Barr, for obstruction of an investigation.... sound familiar?) and Obama TWICE (once for using drones, and once for, again ironically, "abusing executive power).

DrafterX Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ya, Obama abused the chit out of stuff... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
ya...but Trump is abusing the chit outta his power...
DrafterX Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ive heard that too... still haven't seen it tho... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
pretty sure that's due to the orange hued glasses you're wearing...Cool
DrafterX Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Just respecting the office... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#120 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
except when Obama was there...
DrafterX Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Well, he sucked.. Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
Has any actual proof been found that Trump colluded with the Russians to win the election? Seems like the Dems keep throwing chit against the wall, but nothing seems to stick.
Whistlebritches Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,127
Trump comes out of this smelling like a rose,wins in 2020 and repubes steamroll the dems.

Thank you Nancy and Adam
Abrignac Offline
#124 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
Whistlebritches wrote:
Trump comes out of this smelling like a rose,wins in 2020 and repubes steamroll the dems.

Thank you Nancy and Adam


Pretty much what I’m thinking.
tailgater Offline
#125 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
You're not wrong here....

This statement will hold true no matter what. Honestly... shoot a guy on 5th ave? rape a child on the white house desk in front of journalists? Meh. Senate won't convict.


Bubba invited journalists in?
tailgater Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
to be fair to drafter, there were "impeachment attempts". All that's required for an attempt is for a single congressperson to introduce a bill for impeachment. So there were bills of impeachment introduced for Nixon (duh), Reagan (for Iran Contra), bush sr (for starting the Gulf War), and trump (duh)...





To be fair to the truth, we have to remember that the democrats have cried about impeaching Trump since the day he got elected.
A resolution of impeachment was voted on before he finished his first full year.
Individual politicians hated Obama, but it never manifested within the system into what the left have done with Trump.

It's Russia. Stormy. Jared. Rudy. Putin. Kavanaugh. Taxes. Racism. Sexism. Potty mouth. Comey. Ukraine.

I mean, something's bound to stick. Right?

It's a sad day when we call Washington an embarrassment and it's NOT because of our reality star President's latest tweet.

Look no further than the front runners looking to oppose him.
It's obvious that anyone truly qualified is distancing themselves from the current rank and file in the Democrat party.



victor809 Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
They have been trying to impeach him since his first year because he's been doing sh1t worthy of investigation since he entered office. Your argument is that they keep trying to impeach him is ridiculous . "Your honor, the police have been chasing my client every time he leaves the bank with money he stole from it! This is harassment! They're just trying to make one of these bank robberies stick!"

It's a dumb argument and exactly what I expect from you.
victor809 Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
One of the two presidents gas 23 rape allegations against him. But sure, pretend I meant Clinton.

DrafterX Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
But let's ignore the DNC interfering with the 2016 election right..?? Mellow
victor809 Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Go ahead and demand an investigation. I don't care.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#131 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
https://theintercept.com/2019/12/12/the-inspector-generals-report-on-2016-fb-i-spying-reveals-a-scandal-of-historic-magnitude-not-only-for-the-fbi-but-also-the-u-s-media/
Tittums Offline
#132 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2019
Posts: 524
I am just confused how they could keep pushing this. They need to stop listening to the media and start listening to the American people. They rammed this through out of anger, hatred, and revenge and completely ignored how that went for Republicans and the Clinton impeachment. You know they are doing it only because the media demands it because they use quotes from media when it supports their delusion.

I am not sure how Democrats can keep the house next year but I will be surprised if they do. Regardless of loving or hating Trump nothing is getting done and the nothing burger here is nothing getting done other than the desperate attempt to change the impeachment narrative by passing USMCA in the house.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#133 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
The USMCA has been sitting there for almost 2 years...waiting.


Legislation is ALWAYS better when there are more eyes and minds on it. I'm not talking about pork either. That should be outlawed.

Sitting. While they held 4 investigations and held up the confirmation of a SC judge. Sitting. While they wait another day for their friends the "pressititued" Free Press could snap their pictures and keep this circus spinning while truth nugget after truth nugget comes trickling out exposing lie after lie.
frankj1 Offline
#134 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrMaddVibe wrote:
https://theintercept.com/2019/12/12/the-inspector-generals-report-on-2016-fb-i-spying-reveals-a-scandal-of-historic-magnitude-not-only-for-the-fbi-but-also-the-u-s-media/

did you at least listen to (or read) Horowitz explain his findings? I'm guessing no...Cuz that would be the most accurate way of learning what he wants you to know about his efforts in a more direct way than media opinion/rehash or editorials supporting our preconceived hopes. (Same for Mueller for that matter)

Despite the predictable opinion and intentionally narrowed focus of dozens of links on both sides like this one above, it couldn't be clearer that the stuff all happened for legitimate concerns and was done legally. And beyond question, this was what was investigated and needed to be determined.

We have our answer. It's been clarified by a Trump appointee! Goodbye conspiracy theories, goodbye yuuuge impact of the Steele doc, goodbye accusations of Trump haters steering the investigation (it was also uncovered that there was plenty of Trump Love emailed and texted), and on and on.

Now, also in the report are pretty serious findings of FBI stuff that should never have happened and we must demand they be addressed and corrected immediately. I'm distressed at how sloppy and loose our major law agencies have become. Not minor by any means, but still secondary to the heart of the matter at hand.

Tom Brady threw for over 500 yards and lost that Super Bowl...which is the big story?
tailgater Offline
#135 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
They have been trying to impeach him since his first year because he's been doing sh1t worthy of investigation since he entered office. Your argument is that they keep trying to impeach him is ridiculous . "Your honor, the police have been chasing my client every time he leaves the bank with money he stole from it! This is harassment! They're just trying to make one of these bank robberies stick!"

It's a dumb argument and exactly what I expect from you.


They've been investigating him even before he was in office. Lest you forget about the Russian Dossier and the FBI.

Using your logic, if Hillary got in you'd be OK with investigating the pizza child porn thingy.


Look, if you can't acknowledge that the democrats have gone complete bonkers since the day Trump took office then it's not worth anyone's time to discuss it further.
The democrats are throwing everything they can in hopes something will stick. This Ukraine business is no more (or less) worthy than the previous attempts. It's just the most recent. And it won't be the last.
Partly because Trump won't stop being Trump.
But mostly because the left no longer exist if not for their hatred of Trump.

If the current crop of "candidates" for 2020 doesn't convince you of this then nothing will.




victor809 Offline
#136 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
"trump won't stop being trump".... You're right. He won't stop badly and blatantly violating long standing ethical and legal standards. So the Dems will keep trying to bring him down for one of them or another. And the Senate will keep blocking it.

None of that has to do with him not acting in criminal manners.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#137 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
Frank, don't ever guess.

I thought you were better than that.

Those little inaccuracies, they're called lies. Comey, Brennan, Strock and co. Lied to Congress and spied on a US citizen. Those are called crimes. Why maybe even leading to Obama himself.
CelticBomber Offline
#138 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
They've been investigating him even before he was in office. Lest you forget about the Russian Dossier and the FBI.

Using your logic, if Hillary got in you'd be OK with investigating the pizza child porn thingy.




Trump just got caught trying to use Ukraine to dig up dirt on one of his political opponents. He illegally tried to get a foreign government to investigate Biden and his son before an election and used promised military aid as leverage. You don't see anything wrong with that but, a legally justified FBI investigation into Russian collusion is wrong? Then you make a ridiculous leap to that would somehow lead to someone being okay with Hillary investigating the pizza child porn thingy?


What about the Steele dossier have we forgotten? You think Trump didn't have his own people looking into every aspect of Clinton's private and public life? Did you forget that it was a conservative news site that originally hired Fusion GPS to do opposition research into Trump? Clinton's campaign and the DNC also hired Fusion GPS to do research on Trump. They had nothing to do with what went into the report and they had nothing to do with making it public. Some of the things in the dossier were true, like members of Trumps campaign secretly meeting with the Russians. Some of it has never been corroborated and some disproven. This stuff was compiled by a private company, not a US federal law enforcement agency.
How a US Presidential campaign, meeting with the Russians for ANYTHING, is okay for some people I'll never understand.

Trump claimed the FBI committed treason, accused them of directly spying on him, trying to plant informants into his campaign and many other charges that were false. What the FBI did do wrong was use some of the claims in the dossier, that were not proven, to obtain FISA warrants on Carter Page. That does not mean the investigation itself was unjustified or had political motivations when it was launched.

Mental gymnastics should be an Olympic sport. Trump supporters would guarantee US gold every 4 years.
ZRX1200 Offline
#139 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
^ you’d be wearing a Denmar helmet turbo.
frankj1 Offline
#140 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Frank, don't ever guess.

I thought you were better than that.

Those little inaccuracies, they're called lies. Comey, Brennan, Strock and co. Lied to Congress and spied on a US citizen. Those are called crimes. Why maybe even leading to Obama himself.

I am better than that (you really do give me more leeway than you give many others, thank you), which is why I didn't say little inaccuracies either. I did say...

"Now, also in the report are pretty serious findings of FBI stuff that should never have happened and we must demand they be addressed and corrected immediately. I'm distressed at how sloppy and loose our major law agencies have become."

I'm not happy with this, not even a little.

Yet all of this was addressed in the report, and the report was undertaken by a theoretically nonpartisan fellow hand picked by Trump to determine if the investigation was based on sham stuff...Horowitz does take the FBI to task, but that seems to be what the cons are clinging to while ignoring the main course of the meal...which says the deal was legal and legit.

Pretty clear that Horowitz is putting the fake distractions of spying, Strock, Steele, Deep State claims and more to rest.

If we could ignore which team we root for, wouldn't you be outraged that the guy being looked into who also wields the most power, has his personal henchman aka the AG join him in trashing every law department in the USA way ahead of time in order to discredit what he already knew would be discovered in order to sway the public? And calling it trashing is being polite, cuz I am.

And other than the enjoyment we get here to freely say what we think, the Senate will do exactly what we knew all along.
So this is pretty much an exhibition game for us. You'll win. I know this too.

I'd have preferred ousting Trump in the next election, I still plan to vote 3rd party, and I wish he had been censured instead of impeached.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#141 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
frankj1 wrote:
Yet all of this was addressed in the report, and the report was undertaken by a theoretically nonpartisan fellow hand picked by Trump to determine if the investigation was based on sham stuff...Horowitz does take the FBI to task, but that seems to be what the cons are clinging to while ignoring the main course of the meal...which says the deal was legal and legit.

Pretty clear that Horowitz is putting the fake distractions of spying, Strock, Steele, Deep State claims and more to rest.

If we could ignore which team we root for, wouldn't you be outraged that the guy being looked into who also wields the most power, has his personal henchman aka the AG join him in trashing every law department in the USA way ahead of time in order to discredit what he already knew would be discovered in order to sway the public? And calling it trashing is being polite, cuz I am.

And other than the enjoyment we get here to freely say what we think, the Senate will do exactly what we knew all along.
So this is pretty much an exhibition game for us. You'll win. I know this too.

I'd have preferred ousting Trump in the next election, I still plan to vote 3rd party, and I wish he had been censured instead of impeached.



All while Obama and Biden runabout talking about their administration being "scandal free". What they did to reporters, weaponizing the IRS, running guns on multiple continents, gifting taxpayer money for "shovel ready" or "green" donors whom would in turn take millions and file bankruptcy and now this attempted coup.

For you to gloss over it to be addressed is pretty petty. Crimes were committed. We're just now finding out how bad the Obama Administration operated. Weaponizing the AG, the CIA, NSA, FBI and all the usual media sources to overturn an election? To claim there was no fraud by foreign governments? Sullying Carter Page's name and career so they could infiltrate an opponents campaign. Taking the "fruit of the poisoned tree" and imprisoning Michael Flynn, a 33 year career military man that they had admitted didn't lie for lying so they wouldn't take his family down. The director of the FBI falsified the Steele craptastic opposition "research" that was mostly funded by the unmentioned DNC and Hillary Clinton campaign. He made it "VERIFIED" when in fact, they didn't conduct any investigation into it at all so they could use this to obtain a FISA warrant (and had it resubmitted with the same lies 3 more times!). It fit their narrative and they had to act fast. All this hurrying around exposed the multiple agencies for what they did as well. What really got me was the way it was all done and denied in concerted effort. Shouting down the messenger doesn't dilute the message. They sent Paul Mannafort to prison through wiretaps. You can't explain it away. It started back in 2014 and that's before Trump won the election.

With the manner the House decided to behave with their Schiff Show for all to witness and the following Nadler Nod Off it's no wonder the masses don't understand what has been going on and whom to believe. Every accusation tossed against Trump has almost always been categorically been proven false and interchangeably replaced with a DNC bad actor. The hearing were a farce to Justice. Not allowing the President to cross-examine witnesses, to provide his own...what kind of kangaroo court is this? So I can understand how you come up with the "I'll win" remark. I take it as a WE win though. We get to see the real proof and hear from the mouthes of the accusers in open court. I suspect the GOP won't don't a long drawn out session like I want. Keep this going and find out how high it climbs, but we already know it's on Obama's shoulders. FISA court doesn't operate like a "normal" court and we saw the smug lying **** Comey for what he really is. He should be tried for Treason. Same for Brennan. There should be prison time for a slew of characters that pushed the narrative and peddled it. This makes Watergate look like a kindergarten play.

Horowitz didn't excuse nor deny any of this in his report either. You have to take into account the area he was allowed to investigate. It was quite narrow and diminutive. While Comey was out taking more victory laps exclaiming "EXONERATION", The IG of the Department of Justice said, “The activities we found here don’t vindicate anybody who touched this”. To backdrop and fully understand Horowitz, Sen Graham lays out the entire matter here.

https://youtu.be/q0l5VpTqjRs

When the AG concludes his report I fully expect people to be revolted at the manner in which Obama weaponized it all to save his legacy, promote his failed policies and profit from it. The Democrats have once again overplayed their hand. This impeachment is a wet pants load of crap. We were all lead to believe it was about "Russia, Russia, Russia" and bribery and High Crimes and Misdemeanors. All I've seen them produce is a bunch of butthurtfeeleyomah and poor acting. If there was a crime then it would be clearly detailed. It is not. Obstruction of Congress? He's the President and the head of the Executive Branch. It cannot be obstruction and he doesn't have to kowtow to the whims of a do nothing Congress. He can employ Executive Privilege like it has ALWAYS been done. The Dems overreached by not allowing the hearings to be open and fair by allowing the opposing side to bring in their witnesses and evidence. It was a railroad job with Pelosi at the controls and the media keeping it all on track. I can only hope the Senate does a better job. Even today I read where Upchuck Schumer wants this and wants that all under the guise of "fair". Where was he the last few weeks with that kinda talk? Who wins in all of this? Nobody. The Dems stated that if they had the House they'd do the bidding of Americans. Instead it's been a blinders on, one track ride to this. Impeachment.

I didn't vote for Trump in the last election. I didn't have faith in the guy. for the 1st time in my life I didn't vote for a President. I cannot wait to vote for him now. There is a groundswell of people like me too. A recent poll (I know I know...polls) have found anywhere from a 16 to 30% increase in the Black vote for Trump. The #WALKAWAY movement is real. Only the tip of the "iceberg" is showing. The basket of Deplorables is growing. The DNC candidates don't show any forward thinking or rational thought. It's a collective of laughter. Obama sucked all of the life out of the party and gave nothing back. No new fresh face. No new plank to run on. No legislation ushered in that they championed and ironed through. No, it's too late for all sensibility. Censure or Impeachment. All things that should've been talked about with reverence to the Constitution. Instead that process has been weaponized to a new low where retribution is all but a certainty without question. There's no winning in any of this.

None.
tailgater Offline
#142 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
"trump won't stop being trump".... You're right. He won't stop badly and blatantly violating long standing ethical and legal standards. So the Dems will keep trying to bring him down for one of them or another. And the Senate will keep blocking it.

None of that has to do with him not acting in criminal manners.


Trump is an amateur when it comes to politics.
His quid pro quo with Ukraine is merely the latest example.

Had the discussion with their president been in private this would have just been business as usual for world leaders.



Wait.

You didn't think that our previous aide that was famously withheld by Biden was granted through simple benevolence, do you?
You don't think that our VP, who "just happened" to be the US Ukraine contact while his son "just happened" to work for the Ukraine's largest utility, offered up that cool $1B without asking anything in return as it related to his son's extraordinary finances.
Nah.
Merely coincidence.

Ha!

.....


But never fear.

President Pence will be everything the liberal democrats ever wanted...




Tittums Offline
#143 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2019
Posts: 524
tailgater wrote:

President Pence will be everything the liberal democrats ever wanted...


I half expect there to be actual raining of fire and brimstone if he becomes president. It could be amusing.
delta1 Offline
#144 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
never thought I'd say this, but if Trump is removed and Pence became POTUS, that would be beneficial to the US. He can't be more intentionally polarizing and divisive.
delta1 Offline
#145 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
the cons' lining up to support Trump's behavior is encouraging an extremely dangerous precedent...imagine if the next POTUS was a dem, and he/she had secret negotiations with foreign leaders to help with elections of persons or his own re-election by waging witch hunts, planting fake news, running smear campaigns...

Imagine the scenario where Obama, in the run-up to 2016, told Putin he would relax some sanctions if Putin would put out some dirt on Trump's dealings on the Trump Towers of Moscow; or told the Turkish PM Yildirim the US would provide more help to him to fight Syria if the Turkish PM would publicize crooked dealings by Trump in getting the Twin Trump Towers built in Turkey; or negotiated improved relations with Cuba if the Cuban president Raul Castro would disclose negative information on Marco Rubio's family...

I'm sure the GOP and cons would be OK with all that...
Tittums Offline
#146 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2019
Posts: 524
delta1 wrote:
the cons' lining up to support Trump's behavior is encouraging an extremely dangerous precedent...imagine if the next POTUS was a dem, and he/she had secret negotiations with foreign leaders to help with elections of persons or his own re-election by waging witch hunts, planting fake news, running smear campaigns...


I am already worried about the next dem president regardless of what Trump does. The things these progressives candidates are saying are terrifying. Their solution is to throw money at all problems. Throwing money at Iran didn't work, let's keep trying that.

Obama did half of what you mentioned already and ignored the other half that went on without his direction. The dangerous precedent is already set.
tailgater Offline
#147 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
the cons' lining up to support Trump's behavior is encouraging an extremely dangerous precedent...imagine if the next POTUS was a dem, and he/she had secret negotiations with foreign leaders to help with elections of persons or his own re-election by waging witch hunts, planting fake news, running smear campaigns...

Imagine the scenario where Obama, in the run-up to 2016, told Putin he would relax some sanctions if Putin would put out some dirt on Trump's dealings on the Trump Towers of Moscow; or told the Turkish PM Yildirim the US would provide more help to him to fight Syria if the Turkish PM would publicize crooked dealings by Trump in getting the Twin Trump Towers built in Turkey; or negotiated improved relations with Cuba if the Cuban president Raul Castro would disclose negative information on Marco Rubio's family...

I'm sure the GOP and cons would be OK with all that...


LOL!

You are so transparent I'm not even sure you exist.
Except I'd be conversing with myself right now.


DrMaddVibe Offline
#148 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
Uh oh...

https://www.axios.com/focus-group-michigan-swing-voters-trump-impeachment-183e4fc7-5ecc-41bd-add1-537ed8a2fd8f.html

Taking Michigan out of swing state status? Already? Oh my. Instead of getting a solid candidate with real American values and has a record of accomplishing something besides voting "Present", passing legislation they ran on and no kooky free free free talk they went all in on impeachment.

Wonder when Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida and Illinois data comes in.
Chef
I can hardly wait.
delta1 Offline
#149 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
tailgater wrote:
LOL!

You are so transparent I'm not even sure you exist.
Except I'd be conversing with myself right now.






says the king of opacity...

would you approve of any of those scenarios?
Tittums Offline
#150 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2019
Posts: 524
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Uh oh...

https://www.axios.com/focus-group-michigan-swing-voters-trump-impeachment-183e4fc7-5ecc-41bd-add1-537ed8a2fd8f.html

Taking Michigan out of swing state status? Already? Oh my. Instead of getting a solid candidate with real American values and has a record of accomplishing something besides voting "Present", passing legislation they ran on and no kooky free free free talk they went all in on impeachment.

Wonder when Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida and Illinois data comes in.
Chef
I can hardly wait.


I am from Florida and we have always been the weirdest state in the union. I question if it can be anything other than purple. And those results are worrying if the Senate does not shut this down soon. As much as I want retribution for all the crap dems put the country through I don't think there is enough thirst for revenge.
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