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Last post 4 years ago by Brewha. 135 replies replies.
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Different Religions and Beliefs. Before birth? After death? Jesus? Buddha?
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teedubbya Offline
#101 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:15 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Some things can not be proven or explained
dstieger Offline
#102 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:26 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
so....optimism is a 'good thing'? I'm cool with that.
teedubbya Offline
#103 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:39 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
dstieger wrote:
so....optimism is a 'good thing'? I'm cool with that.



Sure.

But I go beyond.... reason or purpose for being is also good and important. My use of faith isn’t as narrow as the carnival barkers at several churches would like.

I am a Christian largely at my parents doing. But every year I get closer in philosophy to Buddhism. Luckily they are similar in many ways.
Buckwheat Offline
#104 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:40 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
DrMaddVibe wrote:
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

http://www.josephus.org/testimonium.htm


Remember for a Roman to write a lie was punishable by death.


I believe that Josephus wasn't even alive while Jesus actually walked the earth.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Flavius-Josephus (i.e. born AD 37/38)

Jesus's death date inferred by biblical references (i.e. April 3 AD 33 - Mark 14:12)
https://www.compellingtruth.org/what-year-did-Jesus-die.html

Actually I could care less because I think it's all made up BS anyway. I can live with people's faith and belief in God, etc. as long as they don't use it to discriminate against anyone. fog

And now something on the lighter side. Beer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnl9DJZN3mM
RMAN4443 Offline
#105 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Every time I get on an airplane, I have faith that it will take off and land without me having to assume a crash position...Anxious
USNGunner Offline
#106 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 1:26 PM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
I was raised Catholic. I was an altar boy from the early 60's to 78 when I joined the Navy. We still said the mass in Latin when I started. I'm all for faith, as I said, i believe in God.

Organized religion not so much. Power corrupts. Absolute power, absolutely. It's the way when humans are involved. The Catholic church is a great example of this.

Personally, I think the problem is that zealots and fanatics are not good not matter what they're fanatical about. Here in lies the problem. Faith can become prejudicial very very easily if not tempered. I'm not going to post examples, I think everyone in this thread is fairly well read.

Back to my earlier point, believe what ever you like, just don't force those opinions on anyone else. That is where the problem comes in. Some forget that. That is my biggest issue with the churches. Accumulation of wealth and power, even if it is just in the churches power structure itself, becomes the point versus true spirituality.

IMHO of course.
dstieger Offline
#107 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 1:41 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Lotta good faith did for George Michael.
Brewha Offline
#108 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 2:48 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
Yeah, here one day and then WHAM!
tailgater Offline
#109 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 9:32 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
107
108
Applause
frankj1 Offline
#110 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 9:43 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
tailgater wrote:
107
108
Applause

+1
izonfire Offline
#111 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 10:28 PM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
teedubbya wrote:
Faith in general. Not necessarily to one religion or religion at all. I just think some sort of faith is important to the human psyche and without it we start to unravel. Just my opinion. Can’t prove it.

Guess we’ll just have to take it on faith...
frankj1 Offline
#112 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 10:37 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
I just believe in me.
Yoko and me.
fishinguitarman Offline
#113 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 10:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Yoko yucky ?????
izonfire Offline
#114 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:21 PM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
frankj1 wrote:
I just believe in me.
Yoko and me.

Yoko? Oh no!
MACS Offline
#115 Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2020, 9:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,747
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k_9mXpNdgU
USNGunner Offline
#116 Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2020, 9:55 PM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
MACS wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k_9mXpNdgU



That's good.
CelticBomber Offline
#117 Posted: Wed, Jan 15 2020, 11:00 PM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
Huh.
I missed the post where someone claimed religion held a monopoly on morality.


No you didn't miss anything. I never claimed you said that. I made a statement. It's a common argument in the God vs Atheist debates.



tailgater wrote:


And your cynicism is where you claim that people of faith shirk personal responsibility. If that's your understanding of religion then you either fail to grasp the entirety of the message, or you twist a single aspect to make your point while ignoring the charitable bounty so often associated with local churches.
Pretty sure that's the pure definition of being a cynic.



Again I didn't say people of faith "shirk" responsibility. I said they have to accept responsibility for their actions as the definition of God and Religion change to fit the times. I thought I was commenting on religion, not pointing the finger at individual people as you seem to feel. Again I NEVER made any comment about any charitable things religion has done. I was referring to all the things done in the name of religion throughout history that now would be anathema to people of most faiths. As society has advanced and our understanding of the world has advanced religions have had to "edit" the supposed word of God to fit in with the times. That's not cynicism. It's a simple truth.


tailgater wrote:


As for the name? Why do you care what others call him? Even in regards to a forged tomb. Fake name on it? OK. But if the name was historically correct would it change your view? Rhetorical, of course. Which is why I call you out as disingenuous.
Strike that. Your post was disingenuous. I have faith that you are not.


As for the name, I don't really care. I just think it's funny every time someone finds a tomb that read's "Here lies Jesus" and they get all excited. It wasn't a condemnation of everyone who believes. It's just something I find amusing. Half the people I've ever asked think Christ is his last name. Saying if the name was historically correct would my opinion be different? No. The first historical reference to Jesus as the Messiah was written over 100 years after he supposedly lived. In one short sentence. What is disingenuous about that?

dis·in·gen·u·ous
/ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/
adjective
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

Where did I do that? I made a few random comments on the topic. You've accused me of being disingenuous, ignoring the charitable work of religions, ( I noticed you failed to address that accusation on a comment I never made), a Cynic, and bitter. You got all that from a few general statements I made. You're projecting issue's you seem to have onto me.

Do I believe in God? Nope. Is the bible the literal word of God? I don't think so, the literal word of God seems to have changed quite a bit through the years. Do I have a problem with people who believe? Depends on what they believe (Just look at those wacky Mormons and Scientologists for example).

Do I have a problem with faith? It depends on the faith and what people use their faith to justify. (Suicide bombers, female circumcision, child brides as examples). I raised two kids in the Jewish faith. I'm a member of a Synagogue because they get something out of their beliefs and faith. I'm happy for them. But, if you ask me, no I don't believe in God and I don't think Jesus existed. I believe religion and all it's holy books and traditions are man made. You've accused me of making claims about religion and it's charitable works and I'm the one who's disingenuous?


In nomine patris et filii et spiritus sancti
StePHen

Sipping tea
tailgater Offline
#118 Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:17 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
CB,
Regarding disingenuous:

You chose a topic (fake Jesus name) as a reason to ridicule people of faith.
But as I pointed out, even if the "real" name were engraved on the artifacts you wouldn't believe.
You're picking and choosing which aspect of the same situation is somehow important.

Religious zealots tend to judge people with different beliefs.

You appear to be doing the same.
USNGunner Offline
#119 Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:22 AM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
So you are not going forth to make disciples then I take it Stephen? BigGrin
CelticBomber Offline
#120 Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2020, 11:34 AM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
CB,
Regarding disingenuous:

You chose a topic (fake Jesus name) as a reason to ridicule people of faith.
But as I pointed out, even if the "real" name were engraved on the artifacts you wouldn't believe.
You're picking and choosing which aspect of the same situation is somehow important.

Religious zealots tend to judge people with different beliefs.

You appear to be doing the same.



You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I said I wonder why people who believe don't use his real name and think it's funny when people claim to have found his tomb because it reads Here lies Jesus brother of James. That's it. There was no mass condemnation of all Christendom. I never said anything about a "fake" Jesus name either. You keep putting words and accusations in my mouth that I never made. I'm trying to prove a false negative? I ignored the good that's been done and am pointing fingers? Now I'm a zealot judging? Bitter, cynical and disingenuous too. You got all of that because I wonder why people don't use his real name?

The name Jesus didn't come into popular use until the 1500's, when the King James Bible was written in Greek. Before that it was Iesus (the I in INRI on some crucifix's) and has gone through quite a few transliterations all the way back to Yeshua. All I did was wonder why and said I think it's funny when people who should know better claim they've found his tomb because it has the name Jesus on it. All the anger and disrespect you are laying at my feet is coming from inside you, not me.
frankj1 Offline
#121 Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2020, 11:42 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
is it beer time yet?
teedubbya Offline
#122 Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2020, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Ues
teedubbya Offline
#123 Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2020, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That’s drunk for yes
tailgater Offline
#124 Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:09 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I recognized that.
tailgater Offline
#125 Posted: Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:12 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
CelticBomber wrote:
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Now listen to me pontificate and blather on and on and on and on.




Um...OK?



Peace brother.
I found your comment worthy of follow up, but I'm not that committed to continue.

Maybe some fine day over a smoke and beverage of your choice.
My treat.
fishinguitarman Offline
#126 Posted: Fri, Jan 17 2020, 2:29 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!
Brewha Offline
#127 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 10:56 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
So....If God can do anything, can he make a rock so big the even he can’t lift it?
Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#128 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 1:34 PM EST
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,373
Brewha wrote:
So....If God can do anything, can he make a rock so big the even he can’t lift it?


Your question is a contradiction, and therefore illogical. You are asking if God can do the impossible. I contend that He can do anything that is possible but even God can not do the impossible. Even Scripture limits God, in that it states that God can not lie nor deny Himself.

David
tailgater Offline
#129 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 2:21 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
A tree fell in the forest.

God heard it.

True story.
Unloader Offline
#130 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 01-18-2020
Posts: 102
I go to frequent confession
frankj1 Offline
#131 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
how bad are you?
Unloader Offline
#132 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 4:12 PM EST
Joined: 01-18-2020
Posts: 102
frankj1 wrote:
how bad are you?


I sin frequent
frankj1 Offline
#133 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 4:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
your English is a sin.
Unloader Offline
#134 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 4:29 PM EST
Joined: 01-18-2020
Posts: 102
frankj1 wrote:
your English is a sin.


I agree
Brewha Offline
#135 Posted: Sat, Jan 18 2020, 5:37 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
Mrs. dpnewell wrote:
Your question is a contradiction, and therefore illogical. You are asking if God can do the impossible. I contend that He can do anything that is possible but even God can not do the impossible. Even Scripture limits God, in that it states that God can not lie nor deny Himself.

David

It is a truism that any line of logic, if followed too far, wraps back upon itself and is meaningless. The question is a classic example. Absolutes are almost always wrong. Not even a deity can “do anything” if you examine what that would mean.

As to what God can do - well, opinions very widely. More interesting still is the question of what God would do, if anything, about things in our lives.

Personally I like the idea that the original plan and implementation was so well conceived, executed and appropriate that no divine intervention would be needed.

But that is just me....
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