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Last post 7 months ago by fishinguitarman. 161 replies replies.
Poll Question : Who will win the 2020 POTUS election
Choice Votes Statistics
Trump 20 80 %
Sanders 2 8 %
Buttigieg 0 0 %
Biden 0 0 %
Warren 0 0 %
Klobuchar 0 0 %
Bloomberg 1 4 %
Brewha/other 2 8 %
Total 25 100%

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2020 POTUS Election
delta1 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 23,217
Trump is a master media manipulator, and has a lot of people believing he will win re-election. Besides his base of supporters, which comprises between 40-45% of registered voters, who have always believed he'll win two terms, there are now people among lib media sources who are predicting a Trump victory in 2020.

He has the money to outspend any realistic Dem candidate, has a track record of accomplishments and has done a masterful job of discrediting any media source that opposes him. Couple that with his daily Twitter campaign of non-stop attacks on the Dem party in general. This media onslaught: a daily drumbeat that re-election is a foregone conclusion, may bear fruit with enough unaligned independents to make it happen.

The other result of this continuous pro-Trump/ anti Dem media message is to discourage lib voters from going to the polls by convincing them that Trump's re-election is inevitable. That was part of the plan in 2016: reduce lib voter turn-out.

His re-election campaign is dialed in on the contested states that he surprisingly won in 2016, and appear to have locked in enough solid red states to get him close to the magic 270 electoral votes...just two or three purple states will do it...

so..can Dems overcome their malaise and historical low turn-out to muster enough enthusiasm to beat Trump? If so, which candidate can do it?
fishinguitarman Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,107
Plus Bloomberg is gonna pull a LOT of votes for the dems

Can’t vote for Brewha...too homophobic

TRUMP 2020!!!
fishinguitarman Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,107
From the dems
dstieger Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,888
Two lily-white flyover states into primary season and the dems are throwing in the towel....lol

And Perez still has a job....even after blaming the little guys in Iowa; dude should be collecting unemployment by now
gummy jones Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,527
im writing in michelle obama
DrafterX Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 93,099
Trump has had this since day 1... only question left is did Nancy burn da House down..?? Mellow
jjanecka Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
No, she made them all run from that rotten salmon smell she carries
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,812
delta1 wrote:
Trump is a master media manipulator, and has a lot of people believing he will win re-election. Besides his base of supporters, which comprises between 40-45% of registered voters, who have always believed he'll win two terms, there are now people among lib media sources who are predicting a Trump victory in 2020.


that's the problem right there.
You don't need a "besides". With that number of voters properly dispersed across the midwest, he will win.
Abrignac Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 15,288
If the Democrats don’t pick a candidate that the vast majority of their voters can get behind Trump wins because his supporters will go to the polls and vote for him. Their is t a compelling candidate for the independents.

At the moment a Socialist is leading. If he doesn’t get nominated a huge percent of his voters will stay home. Elizabeth Warren will he gone after Super Tuesday if not before. Voters have tired of her. Based on a New York Post article Biden’s money pipeline seems to be drying up. Pete has virtually no experience. His crowning achievement is mayor of a city of 100,000. Hell, Baton Rouge is larger than South Bend. His dismal performance there will soon catch up if he’s nominated. Bloomberg is days away from a crash and burn, but he’ll spend a billion bucks before he realizes he can’t carry the black & brown voters because he supported throwing blacks against the wall.

I’m betting on 4 more years of MAGA.
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,812
Abrignac wrote:


I’m betting on 4 more years of MAGA.


well you're right about that part.

But honestly, I'm getting tired of hearing "socialist" from the right and the left. Apparently neither side has any f-cking idea what "socialism" actually is, and decide to label any government program as this.

Come on guys, we're better than that. Socialism requires that the means of production be taken from private hands and turned into a government run entity.

Handouts to the poor is not socialism.
Handouts to the poor rich banks is not socialism.
The ACA is not socialism.
"Medicare for all" is not socialism.

If someone decided to turn all hospitals / clinics into government run entities and make all doctors work for the state.... that would be socialism.

If the government decided to seize all steel companies and run them in whatever manner the government thought was best. That would be socialism.

I don't like any of the above examples (those which are socialism, and those which are not socialism) But most of all I don't like improper use of words to propagate fearmongering.
teedubbya Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
Someone in here very recently inferred Hitler was a socialist. it was sort of like saying a crab-apple is a crustacean but has happened in here a lot and I'm not talking about JPOTTS this time.
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,812
that was probably tittums. but may have been kodiak0808:::#()(::#$:
DrafterX Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 93,099
I could sure use some crustaceans about now... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 15,288
DrafterX wrote:
I could sure use some crustaceans about now... Mellow


You want da crabs?

d'oh!
teedubbya Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
crabsody in blue
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
victor809 wrote:
that was probably tittums. but may have been kodiak0808:::#()(::#$:



nope.....
RobertHively Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 901
#11

I did a few months back. He was the leader of the National Socialist Party. Lol They we're more "right leaning" socialists, but socialists nonetheless. So I'm sure he was a Libertarian...
teedubbya Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
I wasn't referring to you... but he was in no way a socialist despite the word in the nazi party. and a crab-apple is not a crustacean even though it has crab in the name.
RobertHively Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 901
teedubbya wrote:
I wasn't referring to you... but he was in no way a socialist despite the word in the nazi party. and a crab-apple is not a crustacean even though it has crab in the name.


Fascist then? It's really just semantics. Fascism/Communism/Socialism. State control of the people and resources of a nation.
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
All three of those are very different.... its not just semantics its knowledge

B ut again I wasn't referring to you. I don't care if you think Hitler was a socialist.
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 35,581
teedubbya wrote:
Someone in here very recently inferred Hitler was a socialist. it was sort of like saying a crab-apple is a crustacean but has happened in here a lot and I'm not talking about JPOTTS this time.

It's happened a handful of times over the years, mostly due to the name of the party, it's been incorrectly called Commies in order to say the nazis are owned by the Left...imagine how fast they would have won WWII if they really were on the same side as Russia back then. Instead they slaughtered millions of Ruskies.

You meant implied, but it wasn't beehively.
teedubbya Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
infered/implied

commie/faschism/Socialism.... its all the same.


your are correct. implied..... but it was really more than implied I am being kind
RobertHively Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 901
teedubbya wrote:
All three of those are very different.... its not just semantics its knowledge

B ut again I wasn't referring to you. I don't care if you think Hitler was a socialist.


I was pointing out that they all have the same ending. Maybe the means to the end is different, but I would argue not that big of a difference.

What's the diffence between Hitler and Mao?
teedubbya Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
I just disagree with the endings. They are distinct complicated models of economics and government. Religion even plays a role here. It's too complex to get in to here. There are plenty of academic sources that compare and contrast the different models. There are also multiple bogus sources that will convince you kermit the frog is a fascist.

Hitler was not a socialist is all I am saying.


As for hitler and MAO go look at the role of the church, ability to negotiate at any level, economic systems etc. They are very different. Just because they were bad dudes doesn't mean they have everything in common. Stalin as well.
victor809 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,812
you're not doing a great job of digging yourself out of this one RH.
victor809 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,812
I'm surprised that people who like to lump nazis, fascists, communists and socialists together never bother bringing in monarchies.

I mean... .that's kind of the ultimate top-down control of government.
teedubbya Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
state ownership, community ownership, and uniownership (I suspect a made up word by one of my professors) is a good start. The later is more of a personal ownership by one individual as opposed to state ownership. All very different, but hard to capture on a discount cigar board.
RobertHively Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 901
victor809 wrote:
you're not doing a great job of digging yourself out of this one RH.


Well I'm done. Lol
RobertHively Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 901
victor809 wrote:
I'm surprised that people who like to lump nazis, fascists, communists and socialists together never bother bringing in monarchies.

I mean... .that's kind of the ultimate top-down control of government.


Agree
RobertHively Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 901
teedubbya wrote:
state ownership, community ownership, and uniownership (I suspect a made up word by one of my professors) is a good start. The later is more of a personal ownership by one individual as opposed to state ownership. All very different, but hard to capture on a discount cigar board.


Thanks for your replies. I will read up on it. It's been a while...
teedubbya Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
victor809 wrote:
I'm surprised that people who like to lump nazis, fascists, communists and socialists together never bother bringing in monarchies.

I mean... .that's kind of the ultimate top-down control of government.



I'm just surprised folks only have a superficial knowledge of the different forms of government. (Not talking about RobertH.)

Of course to defend that.... most or no models are pure. Socialism bleeds in to capitalism and possibly communism. Less so in fascism.

fascism is theoretically like monarchy but again neither is pure. England's monarchs don'town everything nor did Hitler. They are all models but I don't think there has ever been a perfect model of any of them.

So if everyone is a mutt then I suppose you could call Hitler a socialist. I stand corrected if that is the intent. Its just not his primary identity. Its sort of like calling Liz Warren (sp?) an Indian.
ZRX1200 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 52,916
I’m writing in Kodiak809
teedubbya Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
RobertHively wrote:
Thanks for your replies. I will read up on it. It's been a while...



Hey I just dig this stuff.... I wasted a bunch of time in my undergrad and grad classes studying poly sci. If I came off as a deek its not intentional just natural. :)
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,812
teedubbya wrote:
I'm just surprised folks only have a superficial knowledge of the different forms of government. (Not talking about RobertH.)

Of course to defend that.... most or no models are pure. Socialism bleeds in to capitalism and possibly communism. Less so in fascism.

fascism is theoretically like monarchy but again neither is pure. England's monarchs don'town everything nor did Hitler. They are all models but I don't think there has ever been a perfect model of any of them.

So if everyone is a mutt then I suppose you could call Hitler a socialist. I stand corrected if that is the intent. Its just not his primary identity. Its sort of like calling Liz Warren (sp?) an Indian.


I mean, there's no reason for fascism and communism/socialism to really bleed together.
There should always be a clear delineation between the "economic model" (ie capitalism, socialism) and the type of government (democracy, dictatorship, monarchy etc)...
Then you have the descriptors (ie, a fascist dictatorship, as compared to a lenient or benevolent one)....

It's not like anyone establishes a country as a "fascism"... they establish a form of government which then enables someone at the top to enact authoritarian rule.
teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
If I remember correctly two of em integrate moral values and two do not. I don't remember which is which but could probably figure it out off the top of my head. I'd rather not guess though.... tired
RobertHively Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 901
teedubbya wrote:
Hey I just dig this stuff.... I wasted a bunch of time in my undergrad and grad classes studying poly sci. If I came off as a deek its not intentional just natural. :)


I did too. My undergrad degree is in History and I used all of my electives up on Political Sceince classes. I guess I just filed these forms of govt away as doesn't really work, people die. Lol

But hey I just got them "state owned college" degrees. Maybe you really learned something...
delta1 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 23,217
teedubbya wrote:
I just disagree with the endings. They are distinct complicated models of economics and government. Religion even plays a role here. It's too complex to get in to here. There are plenty of academic sources that compare and contrast the different models. There are also multiple bogus sources that will convince you kermit the frog is a fascist.

Hitler was not a socialist is all I am saying.


As for hitler and MAO go look at the role of the church, ability to negotiate at any level, economic systems etc. They are very different. Just because they were bad dudes doesn't mean they have everything in common. Stalin as well.


you're right TW...most people who throw out the terms "socialist" or "commie" when discussing libs have no real idea what the words mean...just that the words were commonly used to describe systems of government that we opposed and hated during the Cold War, and are now used in right wing media as slurs or pejoratives.

Libs, on the other hand, toss the words "Nazi" and "fascist" at cons, and use them in a negative way, as pejoratives...

they are short-cut, low IQ, insults used by lightweight thinkers who need crutches to replace well-thought out debates
teedubbya Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
Not too many people run on the I'm a fascist ticket
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
RobertHively wrote:
I did too. My undergrad degree is in History and I used all of my electives up on Political Sceince classes. I guess I just filed these forms of govt away as doesn't really work, people die. Lol

But hey I just got them "state owned college" degrees. Maybe you really learned something...



I agree.

My undergrad is a State school (poly sci/public admin), grad (public admin/healthcare admin) is private. Not sure either was better but I found undergrad more difficult. Copious amounts of booze may have been in play there though. I chose my original major based on a whisky magazine add lol.
Brewha Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,332
If nominated I will not run.

If elected I will not serve.

Just sayin....
teedubbya Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
delta I think its almost mandatory because voters will not take the time to go deeper. If it doesn't fit on a bumpersticker.....

I'm glad you mentioned cons and libs though.... both sides are equally guilty
Brewha Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,332
fishinguitarman wrote:
Plus Bloomberg is gonna pull a LOT of votes for the dems

Can’t vote for Brewha...too homophobic

TRUMP 2020!!!

But....but....I thought you had feeelings for me!

Crying
delta1 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 23,217
teedubbya wrote:
Not too many people run on the I'm a fascist ticket



Trump won't come out and say it, but he seems to like that model of government.

before our con friends have a hissy fit of outrage, here's a short def of "fascism" :

Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation
of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe



ever notice how Trump looks up and away, while on camera, showing off his angular jaw...reminds me of Mussolini...
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
Hitler didn't call himself one either. I guess everyone but the fascist thinks its bad lol
teedubbya Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 91,472
wow we really digressed. WWWD?

What would wouldstous do?
Brewha Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,332
RobertHively wrote:


What's the diffence between Hitler and Mao?


One was hungry for power.
The other was hungry after an hour.


Anxious
fishinguitarman Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,107
Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings Brewha.... we good brother?
Brewha Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,332
Of course- its all in fun.

Party on FGM...
fishinguitarman Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,107
👍👍👍👍💋
DrafterX Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 93,099
I've never seen Trump on a horse... Mellow
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