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Last post 4 years ago by borndead1. 47 replies replies.
What in the actual F@(& is the point of a sale?
USNGunner Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
I get this in the mail today from a shop.

"25% off sitewide!"

Sweet, I go to check it out, wait? What?

"Due to manufacturer restrictions we are not allowed to offer this discount on the following brands: Davidoff, Padron, Arturo Fuente, Ashton, La Flor Dominicana, My Father, Rocky Patel, Montecristo White Series, Romeo y Julieta Reserva Real, Perdomo, Brick House, Diamond Crown, Perla del Mar, Plasencia, Nat Sherman, Tatuaje, Liga Privada, Pappy Van Winkle, Camacho, Avo and machine made cigar brands."

What in the actual freak does that leave? LOL

I hope their ups contract is in good order, they're liable to be overrun with orders. Brick wall
jjanecka Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Try to find obscure smokes
clintCigar Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
LOL yeah that drives me batty. Sounds like that popular place doing that. That's a very similar list from what I have seen with them before. Angry
Sunoverbeach Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,583
I can't remember exact circumstances, but I'm pretty sure I've done a couple where I add enough sale applicable brands that it accepts the discount for exempt ones in the cart. That may have been a dollar amount off if you buy x amount situation

But my go tos to work around this list are Illusione, Southern Draw, Viaje, and Warped
jjanecka Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
And 25% off warped is most certainly a great deal
jjanecka Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
See if you can get hold of those lars tetens or maybe some decent room 101
deadeyedick Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,952
Many places won't even list anything except msrp on things like Fuente. Some will just list "call for prices".
dstieger Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Minimum Advertised Price contracts/agreements have been frustrating and confusing for consumers for too long now. Manufacturers blame Amazon and Walmart....but now most all of them are in on the price fixing. I gotta think that they're close to overstepping the boundaries of antitrust laws, if they haven't already.
I don't know if it's technically price fixing, or colluding, or what...but it sure isn't much like capitalism
deadeyedick Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,952
dstieger wrote:
Minimum Advertised Price contracts/agreements have been frustrating and confusing for consumers for too long now. Manufacturers blame Amazon and Walmart....but now most all of them are in on the price fixing. I gotta think that they're close to overstepping the boundaries of antitrust laws, if they haven't already.
I don't know if it's technically price fixing, or colluding, or what...but it sure isn't much like capitalism


My shpo protects me.
dstieger Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
deadeyedick wrote:
My shpo protects me.


You and the rest of your bourgeoisie friends will always get yours...while the lowly proletariat gets boned
deadeyedick Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,952
Let them eat cake.
ZRX1200 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,473
Boning the proletariat........

I have a RAGING clue right now.
Speyside Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Jonsey, only one who looks out for you is you. Z, certain doctors can fix that so it never happens again. Just saying.
Speyside Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
LMAO! After reading the title I didn't even look, sorry G.
USNGunner Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Speyside wrote:
LMAO! After reading the title I didn't even look, sorry G.



LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

I can see that one! BigGrin
shaun341 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-02-2012
Posts: 8,826
dstieger wrote:
Minimum Advertised Price contracts/agreements have been frustrating and confusing for consumers for too long now. Manufacturers blame Amazon and Walmart....but now most all of them are in on the price fixing. I gotta think that they're close to overstepping the boundaries of antitrust laws, if they haven't already.
I don't know if it's technically price fixing, or colluding, or what...but it sure isn't much like capitalism



I actually believe that it protects smaller shops from losing all of their customers to stores like Cbid or the mothership. Those companies can control so much more if the marketshare that they could determine prices lower than mom and pop shops could do and turn a profit. The manufacturer saying no one can sell our product under this price gives smaller companies a chance in the game imo. Now the can offer better customer relations and gain a competitive advantage that price can't combat.
KingoftheCove Online
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,600
deadeyedick wrote:
Let them eat cake.

HA!!

Applause
Pudding Mittens Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
USNGunner wrote:
I get this in the mail today from a shop.

"25% off sitewide!"

Sweet, I go to check it out, wait? What?

"Due to manufacturer restrictions we are not allowed to offer this discount on the following brands: Davidoff, Padron, Arturo Fuente, Ashton, La Flor Dominicana, My Father, Rocky Patel, Montecristo White Series, Romeo y Julieta Reserva Real, Perdomo, Brick House, Diamond Crown, Perla del Mar, Plasencia, Nat Sherman, Tatuaje, Liga Privada, Pappy Van Winkle, Camacho, Avo and machine made cigar brands."

What in the actual freak does that leave? LOL

Plenty of brands aren't excluded:

Joya De Ammonia
La Flor Sweepings
Don Anus
La Aroma De B.M.
Kentucky Outhouse-Cured
La Wrappero Unravelo
Gurkha
Victor Sinclair

.
clintCigar Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
^guess you're not a fan?

FYI I've had PLENTY good JdN's and LFD's. Or maybe you're just being funny. BigGrin
Sunoverbeach Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,583
Thinking joking
Palama Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,450
shaun341 wrote:
I actually believe that it protects smaller shops from losing all of their customers to stores like Cbid or the mothership. Those companies can control so much more if the marketshare that they could determine prices lower than mom and pop shops could do and turn a profit. The manufacturer saying no one can sell our product under this price gives smaller companies a chance in the game imo. Now the can offer better customer relations and gain a competitive advantage that price can't combat.


I think you’re onto something.

Back-in-the-day when I worked for Sony, we enforced MAP with a heavy hand. Iffin’ you didn’t follow “the rules”, we didn’t pay out the co-op funds for our portion of the ad - whether it was newspaper, radio, TV, etc. Newspaper ads were the most common but if we declined to pay our share of a $3,000 full-page ad, that would have put a hurtin’ on that dealer. Plus, of course, we had other ways to punish those that didn’t dance to our music (...borderline restraint of trade stuff but nothing in writing so would have been very difficult to prove...).

When Sony first started out in Hawaii, their initial base was the smaller Mom ‘n Pop stores. They remained loyal and I don’t doubt the genesis for MAP was to protect them as bigger chain stores started to pick up on the brand.
Palama Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,450
One thing to note - every once in a great while, I’ll get an e-mail saying the same thing ("Sitewide Sale") but the code actually works on brands like Fuente and Padron. So, look for the fine print / disclaimer and if you don’t see anything, it’s worth a look-see. I seriously got some nice prices for WOAMs and R44s the last couple of years but wouldn’t have known if I hadn’t S&G’d it.
dstieger Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
shaun341 wrote:
I actually believe that it protects smaller shops from losing all of their customers to stores like Cbid or the mothership. Those companies can control so much more if the marketshare that they could determine prices lower than mom and pop shops could do and turn a profit. The manufacturer saying no one can sell our product under this price gives smaller companies a chance in the game imo. Now the can offer better customer relations and gain a competitive advantage that price can't combat.


So a business which has worked and found a way to be successful gets penalized for its growth by anti-competitive price fixing mechanisms that are totally unrelated to supply, demand, or other capitalistic fair-trade principles?

I'm not even totally opposed to the practice, but it does make me a little uneasy.....what would Adam Smith say?
shaun341 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 08-02-2012
Posts: 8,826
dstieger wrote:
So a business which has worked and found a way to be successful gets penalized for its growth by anti-competitive price fixing mechanisms that are totally unrelated to supply, demand, or other capitalistic fair-trade principles?

I'm not even totally opposed to the practice, but it does make me a little uneasy.....what would Adam Smith say?



So you believe a retailer can create whatever price they want but a wholesaler may not? I believe in capitalism and I believe in it applying to all businesses equally. If you don't like the price then don't buy the product, that is supply and demand. Enough people stop buying and price will drop.

What your describing (unless I am missing something) would lead to Walmart eventually controlling all wholesale and retail business in the country because they found a way to create economies of scale for everything.
Pudding Mittens Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
clintCigar wrote:
^guess you're not a fan?

FYI I've had PLENTY good JdN's and LFD's. Or maybe you're just being funny. BigGrin

Just humor, yes. I needed to come up with a number of fake brand names that sounded awful, but also sounded like cigar brands! It wouldn't have worked just to call them "Anus" and "Outhouse" and "B.M." so I needed to add "Don" and "Flor" and "Joya" and other words typically used in cigar brand names. I wasn't implying that the similar-sounding actual brand names were bad (some of them are excellent!).

It's the classic comedy format "a bunch of awful-sounding fake items, then one or two real ones", with the joke being that, because they're in the same list together, you're implying that the real brands are just as terrible as the fake awful-sounding ones.

Gurkha and Victor Sinclair richly deserve that jab!
.
Dg west deptford Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
You didn't hear me lol earlier pudding, but I did.
Kentucky outhouse cured is actually a more accurate description of that cigar. Just sayin
opelmanta1900 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
shaun341 wrote:
So you believe a retailer can create whatever price they want but a wholesaler may not? I believe in capitalism and I believe in it applying to all businesses equally. If you don't like the price then don't buy the product, that is supply and demand. Enough people stop buying and price will drop.

What your describing (unless I am missing something) would lead to Walmart eventually controlling all wholesale and retail business in the country because they found a way to create economies of scale for everything.

one of the ways walmart shuttered many fishing shops in norcal was by taking a loss on baits and lures... until the surrounding shops were gone... then the prices returned to normal...
dstieger Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
shaun341 wrote:
So you believe a retailer can create whatever price they want but a wholesaler may not? I believe in capitalism and I believe in it applying to all businesses equally. If you don't like the price then don't buy the product, that is supply and demand. Enough people stop buying and price will drop.

What your describing (unless I am missing something) would lead to Walmart eventually controlling all wholesale and retail business in the country because they found a way to create economies of scale for everything.


What? I don't understand your question. Yes, I believe a retailer can sell at whatever price he wants....with a few exceptions....I'm a little queasy about significant gouging during emergencies....but then again...idk

And, yes....analogously, a wholesaler can set whatever price she wants. But I don't necessarily agree that a wholesaler should be able to dictate to retailers what they can sell at.

Also not sure I understand the Walmart comment -- do they control wholesale anything? maybe....how so? But......as advocate for the Devil, I ask why SHOULDN'T they be handsomely rewarded for finding ways to be more efficient and/or effective or at least cost effective?
jjanecka Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Man if you had to compete with wal mart's crappy lure and bait section you probably deserved to be put on the curve.
Dg west deptford Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Good thing walmart doesn't sell premium cigars...
I'm suddenly imaging a Sam's club cigar lounge complete with bar, pool and poker tournaments on non event nights.
Maybe the C13 need to talk to Sam's club
clintCigar Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
^If they're down with strippers we can work something out
jjanecka Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Strippers are yuck
RMAN4443 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
jjanecka wrote:
Strippers are yuck

Confused have you been going to Chippendales or something???????????
clintCigar Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
jj is suspect of non-Commie 13 beliefs
Pudding Mittens Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
opelmanta1900 wrote:
one of the ways walmart shuttered many fishing shops in norcal was by taking a loss on baits and lures... until the surrounding shops were gone... then the prices returned to normal...

They open up a new place flipping meat
So I do too, right across the street
Competition? Send 'em south
If they're gonna drown
Put a hose in their mouth!

Kroc-style! Boom, like that!

.
shaun341 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-02-2012
Posts: 8,826
dstieger wrote:
What? I don't understand your question. Yes, I believe a retailer can sell at whatever price he wants....with a few exceptions....I'm a little queasy about significant gouging during emergencies....but then again...idk

And, yes....analogously, a wholesaler can set whatever price she wants. But I don't necessarily agree that a wholesaler should be able to dictate to retailers what they can sell at.

Also not sure I understand the Walmart comment -- do they control wholesale anything? maybe....how so? But......as advocate for the Devil, I ask why SHOULDN'T they be handsomely rewarded for finding ways to be more efficient and/or effective or at least cost effective?



So Walmart's competitive advantage is cost, and they achieve this through economies of scale. They gain this scale through the massive amount of products they sell. In return they sign suppliers to exclusively sell to Walmart or if they sell to other corporations they must provide Walmart with the lowest price. Once contractually obligated, Walmart starts to put pressure on the supplier to cut cost at pretty much any expense or they will turn elsewhere. This creates control for them over their supplier because the supplier is either going to lose the account which in many cases leads to bankruptcy, or they will hang on for a few years trying to cut cost until ultimately they go bankrupt anyway. Walmart is famous for these tactics and it is how they gain their advantage and control the suppliers prices.

I don't agree with these business practices, it kind of rubs my ethical standards in a negative way. But my point was, if we don't protect mom and pop shops then corporations like Walmart or dare I say the owners of this fine site will gain such an advantage through economy of scale that suppliers will have a hard time making money and our options of stores will be less than a handful. In a way it protects the manufacturer from getting pressured into cutting costs and losing their profits as well.
MACS Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
Granted, I buy very few NC's anyway... but the MAP pricing pretty much took me out of the market. I like Ashton, Fuente, Padron... but I refuse to pay as much or more for them than I do for Havanas, which are much better smokes, IMO.

They can suuuuuuuck it.

In fact... I just ordered $596.23 worth of cigars from my favorite duty free zone!
jjanecka Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
RMAN4443 wrote:
Confused have you been going to Chippendales or something???????????


Dude, I dunno what happened but the women have gone downhill at gentlemen's clubs since about 2010. I mean they were bad before but they're really bad now. I'm not gonna risk getting anything permanent.
CelticBomber Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
USNGunner wrote:
I get this in the mail today from a shop.

"25% off sitewide!"

Sweet, I go to check it out, wait? What?

"Due to manufacturer restrictions we are not allowed to offer this discount on the following brands: Davidoff, Padron, Arturo Fuente, Ashton, La Flor Dominicana, My Father, Rocky Patel, Montecristo White Series, Romeo y Julieta Reserva Real, Perdomo, Brick House, Diamond Crown, Perla del Mar, Plasencia, Nat Sherman, Tatuaje, Liga Privada, Pappy Van Winkle, Camacho, Avo and machine made cigar brands."

What in the actual freak does that leave? LOL

I hope their ups contract is in good order, they're liable to be overrun with orders. Brick wall


It brings in traffic and they get to unload the 'Meh' overpriced to begin with n00b crap. I must admit, when I first started I was excited to try new stuff. Now, not so much. I know what I like and tend to stick with it and when something new and amazing does come along I trust the people here to bring it up and maybe I give it a try. If someone (Clint? Gunner? Sorry I don't label and track like I used to) hadn't sent me a Stolen Throne Crook of the Crown I probably would have missed it. A sale or review by certain site's doesn't pull me in anymore.
jjanecka Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
CelticBomber wrote:
A sale or review by certain site's doesn't pull me in anymore.


Amen to that. Outside of pulling a couple cigars from the consensus articles I'm pretty much the same way. My collection is tailored very keenly to my own tastes.
clintCigar Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
CelticBomber wrote:
If someone (Clint? Gunner? Sorry I don't label and track like I used to) hadn't sent me a Stolen Throne Crook of the Crown I probably would have missed it.

I'm your huckleberry Herfing
USNGunner Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Actually right on both counts.

Clint hit you with one which is about when I got hip as well, then I sent you some mixed in with the other "noob" cigars I packed the check for the box split with. ThumpUp
CelticBomber Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
USNGunner wrote:
Actually right on both counts.

Clint hit you with one which is about when I got hip as well, then I sent you some mixed in with the other "noob" cigars I packed the check for the box split with. ThumpUp


Well all I can say is thank you both. I would have missed getting a box of these if not for you guys. Cigar of 2019 in my opinion.


shaun341 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-02-2012
Posts: 8,826
MACS wrote:
Granted, I buy very few NC's anyway... but the MAP pricing pretty much took me out of the market. I like Ashton, Fuente, Padron... but I refuse to pay as much or more for them than I do for Havanas, which are much better smokes, IMO.

They can suuuuuuuck it.

In fact... I just ordered $596.23 worth of cigars from my favorite duty free zone!


Who is your favorite duty free, I don't think I ever paid an uneven number for my orders. Might have one that I don't know about.
clintCigar Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
CelticBomber wrote:
Well all I can say is thank you both. I would have missed getting a box of these if not for you guys. Cigar of 2019 in my opinion.

YW and YES cigar of 2019 IMO as well.
MACS Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
shaun341 wrote:
Who is your favorite duty free, I don't think I ever paid an uneven number for my orders. Might have one that I don't know about.


That's US Dollars according to my CC statement, after Euro conversion. Swiss post.
borndead1 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,215
Pudding Mittens wrote:
Plenty of brands aren't excluded:

Joya De Ammonia
La Flor Sweepings
Don Anus
La Aroma De B.M.
Kentucky Outhouse-Cured
La Wrappero Unravelo
Gurkha
Victor Sinclair

.


Those La Aroma de B.M. are pretty good with some humi time. Better than Gurkha and VS.
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