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It’s real.

You know it’s also possible a drug can be taken and someone gets better having nothing to do with the drug.

It’s also possible the next person taking it has catastrophic effects due to it. That’s why the trials are done.

That’s not saying it won’t work. It’s saying it’s not proven

I still hope it’s true.

I deal with epidemiologists every day. Haven’t found one that will minimize it like some want to all of them say we will see worse on this one but fear the next one more.

When trump says no one could have seen or predicted this he is an idiot. It was widely sent and predicted. He didn’t believe as did many of his like. They still don’t want to.

Just thinking of future shelter in place orders... prolly thinking too much...

Is that really necessary?? Gotta make it Trump's fault..?? What else can we do..??

I didn’t make it his fault. He’s just a denial like he is a birther. He didn’t make the virus. He just didn’t believe it early enough and still goes back and forth.

He constantly says no one could have believed this. Bs. I personally worked on some of the stuff he discounted.

Yea he was asleep at the switch and it was intentional.

So yea. You may not like it but it’s true. He’s not responsible for the virus, just his reaction or lack there of. It’s not like folks weren’t trying to get him to believe and to start things up. He and his minions denied and refused to take action.

he could have not disbanded some of the pandemic prep that had already been done. Including the playbook and the position in nsc.

He could have mobilized resources in January when folks were urging him to.

He could have realized this isn’t the flu as folks were trying to tell him and seen it for what it is. Folks were trying to get his attention. (We only have 15 cases and it should be close to zero soon)

I can’t say it enough. This isn’t a surprise and isn’t unbelievable. Another will come. But his mantra is it’s a surprise and unbelievable.

He tore down Obama era plans because well. Obama.

His bs cost us this time. Bigly.

I could go on but you really don’t want to know and can’t be convinced. He’s normally a bumbling fool and it’s embarrassing. This time we were damaged MORE because of him. It’s not his fault but it’s worse because of him.

Well, if we had known Frank and I coulda convinced him.. you shoulda said somethin...

Good luck brother. Get through the next few weeks.

I'm just glad we got 350 million dollars going to the Kennedy center so we can stop it...

I rarely do the Costco thing, but Meijers (big box store in the midwest) gives us an hour on Monday and Wednesday mornings. And they enforce it, you need your badge to get in.

I went last Monday and it was nice. Huge line outside when I walked out at 0755.

Very nice gesture.

Most big grocery stores here have reduced their hours, but also have an early morning first hour for seniors and other at risk folks. We did three trips to those stores yesterday at early hours and no one was questioned as to whether they qualified. Last night they announced a limit of 50 customers in a store at the same time. A 35 year old, recently married died today of the corona and his wife is in critical condition.

Wasn't your entire comment because frank specifically called out my name in a question?

Wouldn't that imply you should have "stayed out of our conversation"?

Or do rules only apply to other people in your head?

We're not seeing any difference with plaquenil/azith.

Giving it to the sick ones to try to do something.

But its certainly not the miracle cure touted

It's always critical to use genuine placebo for reliable results.

Of course. But trials take time, people are dying, this stuff looks like it works, and it's relatively safe for most people especially at the short 5-day treatment course they're using for COVID-19 (and of course docs can exclude the rare people who shouldn't have it) and safety testing for "catastrophic effects" was completed decades ago.

Risk vs. benefit, exigent circumstances, all that. Do the studies, but don't wait for them, in this particular case.

Also, think we're repeating this same stuff at this point, so I'm gonna stop.
.

This is a plus, a valuable bonus of the drug. Not only does it clean aquariums, but gene pools too!*

( *When the idiots die immediately, and aren't admitted to take up hospital resources )
.

And other things in the works as well.

You're right and wrong.

Or right and selectively blind.

You see the "bunch of partial bits of data ..... hint may be effective" which yes, is why people will test it.
But you seem blind to the prior in vivo studies which saw no effect (or negative impact)

You're right we keep going around. But you bring up additional anecdotal evidence, and think it's adding to the burden of evidence that we should be using this drug.
Danm just provided anecdotal evidence that it does nothing... but that doesn't seem to put any brakes on your enthusiasm....

Just seems odd to me. This is a medicine which is necessary for some people in general... has anecdotal evidence of helping some with coronavirus, has other anecdotal evidence of helping no one with coronavirus... has actual data that in vivo doesn't help... and has some non-zero risk to patients. Maybe we should put the brakes on it a little, and make sure the people who actually need it, who it works for, have it available while a test is done.

By definition that wouldn’t make it a miracle drug as being pushed my non medical folks, fox, and the prez.

I’m still hopeful for it and about a half dozen equally promising treatments yet to be completely vetted. Danms post is sobering to me though. I believe him.

In the end it’s largely irrelevant given the timeline we are on.

Thinking through it we’ve missed an important opportunity. Has anyone consulted with Chuck Norris or RAM?

Lol. Deleted that post but it was funny while it lasted.

dammit...I missed it...was busy with the grandkids this morning...

and I really needed a good laugh, and who better to laugh at than FGM?

Kung flu fighting...but didn't Bruce Lee kick his ass?

It'll be a long way off tho.

We're going to need to analyze antibodies from recovered patients, and track them for a good amount of time (and they gotta stay alive too)

The issue is the physical damage that is done to the lung tissue by initial exposure to the virus. It's not just an inflammatory/immune response. This causes physical damage to the cells that do the air exchange.

Yup.

That's why all of "us" are scared. We can treat the other stuff. We can't treat this. And we're highly susceptible because it seems like the initial exposure viral load correlates with severity of symptoms in the otherwise healthy. And we're dealing with this without proper PPE. I'd walk into a room with the confidence and swagger of McGregor if I had the proper equipment. But we don't. We don't have goggles/face shields. We don't have respirators. We get a face mask that does fxckall to protect us.

This needs to be thought of as like a toxic corrosive gas cloud more than a virulent pathogen. We're all used to the flu, the cold, and other ailments major or minor. You recover and go back to your normal. This is different. You recover, but the damage remains. It's like inhaling a cloud of acid that burns your lungs.