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Last post 3 years ago by tonygraz. 387 replies replies.
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Following Dr Trump's Medical Advice...
frankj1 Offline
#251 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
dang it all
CelticBomber Offline
#252 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
Speyside wrote:
What do you think he does here?


CBID the Audiobook?
Speyside Offline
#253 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Voice to text?
Speyside Offline
#254 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Voice to text?
Gene363 Offline
#255 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
Gene363 wrote:
An explanation of how the virus keeps you from getting oxygen and how Hydroxychloroquine can turn that around. The author is not an MD and there are some political comments, but the best of the article is interesting.

http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb



Full disclosure, an article that contradicts the above article.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/claim-that-sars-cov-2-binds-to-hemoglobin-in-red-blood-cells-unsupported-and-implausible-andrew-gaiziunas/?fbclid=IwAR2jouFaIatzQ4PPI7JXwB3o1yaVhzP7aaF-FVVXry3HprJb7gXKthMwY7Q

Quote:
Claim that SARS-CoV-2 binds to hemoglobin in red blood cells unsupported and implausible

This claim was first published on 5 April 2020 on the publishing platform Medium. Written by Andrew Gaiziunas, who has no medical background, the article claims that SARS-CoV-2, the virus causing COVID-19, binds to hemoglobin in red blood cells and prevents these cells from carrying oxygen. Although the original article has since been removed from Medium, the claim still continues to circulate in the archived form of the article, which has received more than 1.6 million engagements on Facebook. The basis for the claim can be found in a pre-print uploaded to ChemRxiv[1], which reports the findings of in silico or computational analysis of certain SARS-CoV-2 protein sequences, but has not been verified by experimental work in vitro or in vivo.

Packaged in red blood cells, hemoglobin is a protein comprising four globular protein subunits (also called globins), each carrying a heme group. A heme group is made of an iron ion and another compound called porphyrin (see figure below for a diagram of hemoglobin’s structure). Through the reversible binding of oxygen to the iron ion in heme groups, red blood cells can pick up oxygen in the lungs and deliver it to the rest of the body.

Specifically, Gaiziunas claims that the virus binds to heme, and in doing so, ejects iron from hemoglobin, thus preventing red blood cells from carrying oxygen.

Scientists told Health Feedback unanimously that the claim was not supported by experimental and clinical evidence. “There is no direct biological evidence that SARS-CoV-2 proteins interact with hemoglobin. The claim is based on a single study performed purely in silico without proper wet lab validation,” explained Victor Tseng, pulmonologist and assistant professor of medicine at Emory University. Eva Nozik-Grayck, clinician-scientist and critical care specialist at the Children’s Hospital Colorado, stated that “without any experimental evidence, it is dangerous and misleading to make these claims.”

David Irwin, associate professor at the University of Colorado Denver, who studies hemoglobin and hypoxia, questioned the conclusions of the ChemRxiv pre-print that served as the basis for the claim. “The authors show no convincing data to suggest that the [viral] proteins of interest, such as Orf8 etc., actually bind heme other than in modeling theories. Most troubling is that there is no way that we know of to suggest that the virus accesses hemoglobin in red blood cells to attack the heme as described in the manuscript,” he said.

A Medium article authored by Matthew Amdahl, clinician-scientist at the University of Pittsburgh and hemoglobin researcher, details the numerous problems with Gaiziunas’ hypothesis. Notably, he pointed out that SARS-CoV-2 is larger than the entire hemoglobin protein, but according to Gaiziunas’ hypothesis, would somehow manage to fit into “a space barely large enough for two-atom molecules like oxygen (O2)” in order to eject iron from hemoglobin and bind to porphyrin:

“To put it charitably, this would be an entirely novel and seemingly impossible sort of chemistry, and there is absolutely no scientific evidence that supports such a possibility. It’s this seemingly impossible interaction that forms the foundation of the blog post’s entire argument, and so the remainder of the conclusions drawn by the blogger simply don’t carry any weight.”
Furthermore, clinical evidence from COVID-19 patients contradict the hypothesis made by Gaiziunas. Firstly, supposing that the virus did bind to hemoglobin and ejected iron from red blood cells, this would have produced a modified form of hemoglobin that has an altered ability to bind to oxygen, which can be detected by measuring the oxyhemoglobin dissociation constant.

However, Tseng pointed out that co-oximetry, which is used to measure the levels of blood gases like oxygen and carbon dioxide, in addition to different forms of hemoglobin, “has failed to detect abnormal species of hemoglobin [in COVID-19 patients]. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the oxyhemoglobin dissociation constant is markedly altered in these patients.”

Secondly, if the virus actually ejected iron from the heme group, “then total iron accumulation in the blood plasma should increase, and there is no clinical evidence of this either,” added Irwin.

The claim that “There is no ‘pneumonia’ nor ARDS” in COVID-19 patients is also demonstrably false, as reports from China and Italy show[2,3]. This Science news article discusses the complications from COVID-19, among which are pneumonia and ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome). In clinical guidelines, both the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization also include pneumonia and ARDS as conditions that may need to be managed in COVID-19 patients.

In summary, while scientists have not ruled out a potential link between changes in red blood cell physiology and hypoxia observed in COVID-19 patients, the mechanisms proposed by Gaiziunas are founded on little to no scientific evidence, highly implausible given what we already know of hemoglobin and the virus, and contradicted by clinical evidence in COVID-19 patients.

victor809 Offline
#256 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
.... I mean, you just posted an article that said almost the exact thing I told you.

.... it even had a "Victor" in it.

.... why did you believe that Victor and not me, Gene? I'm hurt.
teedubbya Offline
#257 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We are all desperate for answers. There prolly isn’t an easy one. Interesting read. Thanks for it.
victor809 Offline
#258 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:
Full disclosure, an article that says Victor was right and I was wrong. And he's really really really good looking.


FIFY Gene. Angel
teedubbya Offline
#259 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The use of ventilators and when is a valid conversation though. Interesting developments and processes coming out of that.
victor809 Offline
#260 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I know absolutely zero about ventilators.... is there something special that's actually being seen with this virus regarding them?
teedubbya Offline
#261 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Well they always are damaging to some degree so it’s a weird balance regarding when to put folks on them. I think danm was saying (correct me if I’m wrong Dan) they were starting them early. I’m hearing some hospitals starting to wait longer.

I’m also hearings about turning patients in stomachs and some less invasive ventilators and techniques. And treating fat folk like pregnant women.

Just hearing some rudimentary changes being tried. Simple stuff. I dunno though. Some of it is desperation.

I do think some cool vent designs are coming.
teedubbya Offline
#262 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
On stomachs. Not in.

Every thing I said is anecdotal and not actionable.
victor809 Offline
#263 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I saw an article regarding the turning them on the stomach thing as well. And yeah, all anecdotal.
ZRX1200 Offline
#264 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
I’m shipping 2 vents to Illinois today.
Gene363 Offline
#265 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
victor809 wrote:
FIFY Gene. Angel


It's happened more than once, you should be very concerned. Beer
CelticBomber Offline
#266 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
Surprised no one has started a thread about the WHO de-funding.... The organization that wiped out smallpox. Have they become more bureaucratic, sure. Are they usless? No.

Need proof. Look at South Korea. They acted on the same info the U.S. got from WHO and acted immediately. 230 deaths.... 10,635 confirmed cases.

BTW 141 corona virus survivor's have be retested and are again positive for the virus. Reporting from China say's between 5 to 10% of survivors have also retested positive. They are now double checking the testing for error's but, this could mean no antibodies

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandrasternlicht/2020/04/16/140-plus-coronavirus-survivors-retest-positive-for-disease-in-south-korea-raising-questions-about-immunity/#6ea5b3df18ad


This is.. worrying.
frankj1 Offline
#267 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
some people get colds every winter.
izonfire Offline
#268 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
And some people’s lungs fill up with fluid and they suffocate...
RobertHively Offline
#269 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,761
Some people get the flu.
RobertHively Offline
#270 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,761
Sometimes it's cloudy
izonfire Offline
#271 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
And some people are a$$holes
teedubbya Offline
#272 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Is it true we are what we eat?
RobertHively Offline
#273 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,761
Yeah, but I didnt want to call you out again. But you are.


Hows your liver? Or do you have to be a health expert to know that too.
RobertHively Offline
#274 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,761
izonfire wrote:
And some people are a$$holes



Yeah, but I didnt want to call you out again. But you are.


Hows your liver? Or do you have to be a health expert to know that too.
teedubbya Offline
#275 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Lol. That’s why I put it out there.

My liver? *shrug*. Fine I guess. I think it needs some booze. Its been almost a week.
RobertHively Offline
#276 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,761
teedubbya wrote:
Lol. That’s why I put it out there.

My liver? *shrug*. Fine I guess. I think it needs some booze. Its been almost a week.


That one was for Rich the White Boy B*tch, but I'll take that one too. Lol! Sh*t
teedubbya Offline
#277 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I believe ya but I deserve it as much as anyone.

I was going by the do you need to be a health expert part.....
frankj1 Offline
#278 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
frankj1 wrote:
some people get colds every winter.

I meant to establish that there may not be automatic immunity from viruses
delta1 Offline
#279 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Trump's roll-out of the Three Phase Plan to Re-open is surprisingly rational, and provides a hopeful roadmap for the US recovery...

the biggest issue is that it relies on numerical benchmarks in order for specific actions to occur...numbers that can only be obtained if/when we do widespread testing


why can't/hasn't a nation with our expertise, man-power, production capacity, wealth and can do spirit do/done widespread testing?


those who are demanding that we re-open immediately should be demanding an answer to that question...it is the key that will re-open our economy...until we have a vaccine...
HockeyDad Offline
#280 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
I blame TW
Buckwheat Offline
#281 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
DrafterX wrote:
Why do you hate Jesus..?? Huh


Isn't he Latino? Sarcasm
teedubbya Offline
#282 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I’m sorry.
fiddler898 Offline
#283 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
delta1 wrote:
Trump's roll-out of the Three Phase Plan to Re-open is surprisingly rational, and provides a hopeful roadmap for the US recovery...

the biggest issue is that it relies on numerical benchmarks in order for specific actions to occur...numbers that can only be obtained if/when we do widespread testing


why can't/hasn't a nation with our expertise, man-power, production capacity, wealth and can do spirit do/done widespread testing?


those who are demanding that we re-open immediately should be demanding an answer to that question...it is the key that will re-open our economy...until we have a vaccine...


🎶 "And then he goes and spoils it all by saying something stupid like..." 🎶
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/17/nation/president-trump-makes-call-liberate-states-day-after-issuing-guidelines-that-leave-decision-up-governors/
izonfire Offline
#284 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
RobertHively wrote:
Yeah, but I didnt want to call you out again. But you are.

Most people here can handle jokes. Talk about a bitch.
Ahhh, such a tender little vagina you are...
RobertHively Offline
#285 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,761

No big deal, Rich.
tonygraz Offline
#286 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
Like we used to say "F*** him if he can't take a joke".
Speyside Offline
#287 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
IZON, don't be so tough on yourself. Sure, you're an Azzhole, but we still like ya. Though that isn't setting the bar very high since we're Azzholes also.
izonfire Offline
#288 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
Being tough on myself is one of my supreme joys of life...
tailgater Offline
#289 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sadomasochism?
tonygraz Offline
#290 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
izonfire wrote:
Being tough on myself is one of my supreme joys of life...


Does that mean that you masturbate until you bleed ?
delta1 Offline
#291 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
gives a whole new meaning to "whacks off"
tonygraz Offline
#292 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
Dr. trump has come up with new inventive cures for the corona virus. Ingesting or shooting up with disinfectants. He could promote that by giving free syringes at soon to be announced rallies.
Another cure suggested is getting light under the skin -either UV or very bright light. Somehow "very bright" seems out of place.
Some other genius has announced that nicotine can be a cure. If you think overbids and slow shipping is bad now- just wait if this goes viral.
Heat and humidity see to be something else that can slow down or stop the virus - We all saw how great that works on cruises and everybody will be rushing to Florida and tropical jungles for safety. Guam anyone ?
Speyside Offline
#293 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Look at the bright side Tony, the cult of Trump will get a little smaller.
teedubbya Offline
#294 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I actually laughed at his idiotic comments. Literally. It was like a snl skit.
teedubbya Offline
#295 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Maybe if you inject bleach and super heat your body. What do you have to lose?
frankj1 Offline
#296 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
Maybe if you inject bleach and super heat your body. What do you have to lose?

I think it would void your organ donor card.
teedubbya Offline
#297 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Then take the organs out first. You have to admit it would reduce the fatality rate from covid.
HockeyDad Offline
#298 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
I heard all deaths are counted as covid.
tailgater Offline
#299 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
In related news, Lysol Brand is excited about their new vaping product.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#300 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
The way I look at it, most people don't have hypodermic needles sitting around...

Of the 2 categories of people I can think of that do have regular access to needles - drug addicts and diabetics - only one of those categories contains people dumb enough to inject disinfectants, and quite frankly we have far too many of them....
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