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COVID19 is winning.
HockeyDad Offline
#151 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
At this point a bunch of medical professionals need to be forced into retirement.
Speyside Offline
#152 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Dam HD, you don't know enough about this to even know who to get rid of. Buckle up butter cup and stick with economics. I'll help ya out, you want to get rid of a bunch of scientists and researchers. Medicical professionals are the people you go to when you are sick.
HockeyDad Offline
#153 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
When you screw up in the private sector you get removed. When you screw up in the government sector you retire. Nobody goes to career medical administration people when they’re sick.
frankj1 Offline
#154 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
doctors are practicing medicine.
it takes time.
Speyside Offline
#155 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
But your frustration isn't created by medical administrators if I understand it right. Yes, they made decisions that infuriate you, but the data they based that on came from scientists and researchers. Also, by definition medical professionals are generally considered your healthcare providers. Perhaps I am talking semantics. In truth I think there will be a large shift in research. The people who were critically ill to start with in part died of low Oxygen saturation. The largest percentage of those deaths have been caused by autoimmune disease. I think understanding COVID 19 in relation to the brain will become an area of focus, as will how the brain is turning the central nervous system into an autoimmune disease pathway.
frankj1 Offline
#156 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I hope you aren't wasting your breathe
BuckyB93 Offline
#157 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,110
frankj1 wrote:
Theodore, I seem to recall discussion here over recent months about long term care, like 30 to 40 years, of lung scarred victims who did not die, organ damage that will require amazing amounts of money to cope with for many years, blah blah blah.

The goal posts aren't moving, but a few place kickers are lining up for field goals at the same time.


And we know that this is true (requirement of long care, like 30-40 yrs) how?

Do we have a firm grasp on what organ damage has been done as a result of the Rona when we are only a handful of months into it?

Is this a result from the Rona or from our knee jerk reaction to treating something that we really don't know about (throwing $#!+ against the wall and see what sticks).

We don't expect any advances in medical science and treatment during these 30-40 ys or are we just going to stick with and spout the 30-40 yr estimate because that's what the professionals say based on the data that currently isn't accurate unless you have the magic key into the vault containing the real data.

I don't think I'm asking unreasonable questions here. I've posted many but all I get is that I don't know $#!+ (and I don't claim to either) and I should trust in the professionals without question because they know the real deal.

So far, I don't think they know as much as they claim to but are not willing to come out and say it because well... they kinda created and fanned the flames on this thing... in for a penny, in for a pound full speed ahead!
frankj1 Offline
#158 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I'll go with the majority opinion here instead.
Speyside Offline
#159 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I promised myself I was going to remove my anger from this and do my best to not be political. I will try to answer what questions I can.

What we do know is autoimmune disease is devastating. We do not know enough about the COVID 19 autoimmune diseases to know how devastating they will be. We do know that known autoimmune diseases are lifelong illnesses once you have them and they eventually kill you in a gruesome manner.

The initial reaction did not take into account the massive devastation a shutdown would cause. Doing nothing was and is totally unacceptable, but a well planned measured response would have been far better.

Honesty is being used with what is known in the scientific community, but not nearly enough is known. Every day new information seems to happen, often rendering old information either incorrect, or incomplete. Incomplete is more common.

I have done my best to answer what I felt I could answer knowledgeably.
HockeyDad Offline
#160 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
Speyside wrote:
The initial reaction did not take into account the massive devastation a shutdown would cause. Doing nothing was and is totally unacceptable, but a well planned measured response would have been far better.


That is what I would like to hear from the County health directors all the way up to Fauci but they won’t say it.
BuckyB93 Offline
#161 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,110
Speyside wrote:
I promised myself I was going to remove my anger from this and do my best to not be political. I will try to answer what questions I can.

What we do know is autoimmune disease is devastating. We do not know enough about the COVID 19 autoimmune diseases to know how devastating they will be. We do know that known autoimmune diseases are lifelong illnesses once you have them and they eventually kill you in a gruesome manner.

The initial reaction did not take into account the massive devastation a shutdown would cause. Doing nothing was and is totally unacceptable, but a well planned measured response would have been far better.

Honesty is being used with what is known in the scientific community, but not nearly enough is known. Every day new information seems to happen, often rendering old information either incorrect, or incomplete. Incomplete is more common.

I have done my best to answer what I felt I could answer knowledgeably.


OK, so we...
1) Knowingly made decisions (some would call rash decisions) based on incomplete and incorrect data.
2) We continue to do so even though we still have incomplete and incorrect data.
3) We stay the course and even predict the future based on incomplete and incorrect data.
4) We don't admit it because they are professionals and they know stuff and everything so they are above questioning.

Seems kinda like a case malpractice by prescribing a treatment plan without having any real understanding of the data to base it on. So without knowing what is going on, we just do something so it looks like we know what we are doing on.

Then we add this to the cluster F: Those who breathe a word contrary what the prescribed "correct" path are blasted as being ignorant buffoons. This whole thing seems to fit into a category of groupthink don'cha think?

groupthink
n. a strong concurrence-seeking tendency that interferes with effective group decision making. Symptoms include apparent unanimity, illusions of invulnerability and moral correctness, biased perceptions of the outgroup, interpersonal pressure, self-censorship, and defective decision-making strategies. Causes are thought to include group cohesion and isolation, poor leadership, and the stress involved in making decisions. [identified by Irving L. Janis]


https://dictionary.apa.org/groupthink


Also note: None of my posts on this topic referenced anything about politics. Any injections of politics did not come from me.
rfenst Online
#162 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
You guys are arguing in circles.
Speyside Offline
#163 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Yeah, I'm done.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#164 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
"There's somethin' wrong with the world today I don't know what it is" - Aerosmith

Who knew?
tailgater Offline
#165 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I'll go with the majority opinion here instead.


Hey Columbus. Have a great time sailing off the edge of the earth!


delta1 Offline
#166 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
HockeyDad wrote:
At this point a bunch of medical professionals need to be forced into retirement.


sadly...quite a few heroic medical professionals who did their jobs without full support from the rest of us bickering over the reality of the virus went into permanent retirement...

all of my family and friends who are in the medical profession have prolly influenced my thoughts about the pandemic...they are in unanimity about the seriousness of the threat...


cautionary tale: some are claiming this is like the boy who cried wolf...how'd that really turn out?
Speyside Offline
#167 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Delta,
There are some interesting numbers out there. As a totality medical professionals have the lowest incidence of COVID 19 infection. I'm guessing here as to why. They mask properly, they glove properly, they socially distance properly, they wash hands properly, they are more apt to mask, and face shield.
victor809 Offline
#168 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Speaking of winning....

https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200611-choe-farzan-sars-cov-2-spike-protein.html

So I think Spey mentioned this to me before. But we've got a mutation occurring on the spikes of the coronavirus.... it looks like it's improving binding with the cell receptor proteins which COVID uses to get into our cells, making it more infectious.

Wonderful.
rfenst Online
#169 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
Don't all viruses mutate?
victor809 Offline
#170 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Yep. But mutating to become more infectious is not that frequent.

Tons of mutations occur. Most are either benign or even make the virus less virulent or deadly. At most they may require a modification to the vaccine/new vaccine (flu being an example).

HockeyDad Offline
#171 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
So this mutation is causing people to get much more sick and die?
victor809 Offline
#172 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
And sentence bad.

You may want to get tested.
HockeyDad Offline
#173 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
A typo in a sentence is not one of the 75 symptoms of Covid.
Speyside Offline
#174 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Robert, viruses mutate a lot. The flu for example mutates about 21K times a year. COVID 19 mutated about 7K times by 6/1. But, normally viruses mutate to less deadly, not more deadly. The first wave of the Spanish flu was worse than normal flu. Then it mutated more deadly and killed about 25% of the earths population. The protien spike is a more deadly mutation. Also the New York mutation is more deadly. Truthfully, I think Pandoras box has been opened here and COVID 19 has won. No one is sure what that means. To turn around the increased infection rates would truely take draconian measures. People here and elsewhere have laughed at my predictions. They are and were logic and science based. Unfortunately I have been correct. Adequate social distancing is virtually impossible. In a no air movement environment sneeze aerosol moves 12 feet. When COVID 19 virus lands on hard surfaces it lasts 4 days. Also, a mask does protect you. It certainly is for others. But it is just as much for you. It will lower your COVID 19 load exposure.
Speyside Offline
#175 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
The New York mutation does HD. The spike mutation causes an increase in infection percentage. So it doesn't cause people to be sicker, but it does lead to more deaths.
HockeyDad Offline
#176 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
I’m glad our California version is much more laid back.
Speyside Offline
#177 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
It seems to have mutated down which is great. The overall hope is this is what COVID 19 will continue to do.
corey sellers Offline
#178 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,338
My daughter just tested positive and she was down here with Grandma and Grandpa so I have been exposed . The wife and I will be tested tomorrow .She went to the doctor they told her she had a sinus affection. One of her friends in Charleston tested positive and one didn't they where on a boat together last weekend .The lovely Karen and I have had an upset stomach for the last couple days.
delta1 Offline
#179 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
sorry to hear Corey...best of wishes for you and your family.



we are reaching our hospital ICU capacity in several counties in CA... COVID19 accounts for about 1/3 of the ICU load, and is increasing...

may have to switch stuff and people around to accommodate...

shutting down bars and other places that serve alcohol on the premises in 7 of the hardest hit counties...
victor809 Offline
#180 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
RIP Corey...
teedubbya Offline
#181 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Corey take care brother. Hopefully it’s negative and your daughter has a mild case.
teedubbya Offline
#182 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Wear you gaddam masks folks. Don’t show your stupidity.
victor809 Offline
#183 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
Corey take care brother. Hopefully it’s negative and your daughter has a mild case.

He's already dead man.... he's already dead.....
teedubbya Offline
#184 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I like gallows humor as much as the rest but I like Corey and like his wife more lol. Good folk.
victor809 Offline
#185 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
I like gallows humor as much as the rest but I like Corey and like his wife more lol. Good folk.


Typical.... always saying nice things about people after they die.

(note - I will feel like a huge deek if they do get seriously sick from this)
teedubbya Offline
#186 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Well if Corey goes but his wife stays.......
teedubbya Offline
#187 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Judging from her current husband she likes men with tiny wieners
corey sellers Offline
#188 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,338
Dammit Vickie I sure am going to miss your pretty hair and smile brother.

Thanks guys I am fine more worried about my inlaws they are up in age.

There was a girl and guy that both tested negative now they have retested and the fuy is positive. Sounds like the test are shiat . Which they have been discussed before on here. It doesn't matter drink up boys.See y'all on Saturday fella's .
teedubbya Offline
#189 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
But do you still have a small wiener?
victor809 Offline
#190 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
corey sellers wrote:
Dammit Vickie I sure am going to miss your pretty hair and smile brother.

Thanks guys I am fine more worried about my inlaws they are up in age.

There was a girl and guy that both tested negative now they have retested and the fuy is positive. Sounds like the test are shiat . Which they have been discussed before on here. It doesn't matter drink up boys.See y'all on Saturday fella's .


Don't worry, we'll say nice things about you at your funeral. And I'll totally wear a nice suit and everything.
victor809 Offline
#191 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
But do you still have a small wiener?


dude... you can just wait a few days and ask the coroner.
teedubbya Offline
#192 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
victor809 wrote:
Don't worry, we'll say nice things about you at your funeral. And I'll totally wear a nice suit and everything.



And a mask. We have an open zoom meeting on Saturdays.

Seriously Corey. Good luck to all.
victor809 Offline
#193 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
And a mask


Corey wouldn't want that man.
teedubbya Offline
#194 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Ok then clown make up. At least it will cheer up drafter.
victor809 Offline
#195 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
True... true...
victor809 Offline
#196 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I always want to make the zoom herf. But Sat is a terrible day for me. I've got dinner with the wife consistently around 8pm ... and decontamination procedures following cigar smoking are extensive. So I can't really join until after dinner... 10ish... if the woman is tuckered out. If she's not, I'm on duty.
Mcdanielsamuel Offline
#197 Posted:
Joined: 04-28-2020
Posts: 611
Good for you Victor, keep them happy
corey sellers Offline
#198 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,338
I like the clown idea more especially on Victor he has the hair to pull it off.
Speyside Offline
#199 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Clown face. Is that still acceptable to say?
corey sellers Offline
#200 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,338
Probably not Spey #butthurtpeople
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