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Last post 3 years ago by frankj1. 68 replies replies.
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Cons here.
Speyside Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2020/06/30/a-national-mask-mandate-could-save-the-us-economy-1-trillion-goldman-sachs-says/

Is this fake news also?
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
So, the President should overrule States ability to make their own rules..?? Huh
tonygraz Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
He said he was the wartime president and covid was the enemy. But then who pays much attention as the story changes from day to day and he seems to think the enemy will just go away without us having to do anything.
MACS Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
Got news for you... it's a virus. It ain't going away.
danmdevries Online
#5 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,124
MACS wrote:
Got news for you... it's a virus. It ain't going away.


Its definitely here to stay.

Once a virus has mutated to human-human transmission, its not going away. It's achieved its purpose.

tonygraz Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
But trump said it would go away.
teedubbya Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Recently
HockeyDad Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
The data models are still trending towards around November 4 for it to go away.
BuckyB93 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,111
danmdevries wrote:
Its definitely here to stay.

Once a virus has mutated to human-human transmission, its not going away. It's achieved its purpose.



Unless it's purpose was to mutate to porpoise-porpoise transmission.
frankj1 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
HockeyDad wrote:
The data models are still trending towards around November 4 for it to go away.

I'm guessing that's a Tuesday
HockeyDad Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
It’s a Wednesday. Election Day.
Mr. Jones Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
Like magicccccckkkkk

Someday we'll wake uppppppp...

And it will be gonnnne...

Quote
Cheeto the orange O.N.E. HAS SPOKEN...
izonfire Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
frankj1 wrote:
I'm guessing that's a Tuesday

It will be a Tuesday afternoon.
Most definitely...

Tuesday afternoon
I'm just beginning to see
Now I'm on my way
It doesn't matter to me
Chasing the clouds away
Something calls to me
The trees are drawing me near
I've got to find out why
Those gentle voices I hear
Explain it all with a sigh
I'm looking at myself reflections of my mind
It's just the kind of day to leave myself behind
So gently swaying through the fairyland of love
If you'll just come with me you'll see the beauty of
Tuesday afternoon
Tuesday afternoon
Tuesday afternoon
I'm just beginning to see
Now I'm on my way
It doesn't matter to me
Chasing the clouds away
Something calls to me
The trees are drawing me near
I've got to find out why
Those gentle voices I hear
Explain it all with a sigh
RobertHively Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,761
HockeyDad wrote:
The data models are still trending towards around November 4 for it to go away.



The data I've been looking at suggests the same thing. But until then, it's showing that millions of people will die and stuff.

If this is correct we'll take the credit for it. If it's wrong we'll just get a new model and if we scare people enough nobody will call BS about our first 10 models that were incorrect.







Speyside Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Interesting, one of the main points you cons wanted to talk about was the ruining of the economy. But crickets about the article. What? What's that? We could save a trillion if we all wore masks? Goldman Sachs is saying that? They are just talking about the economy?

Oh, better change the conversation. Lets see, complain about states rights. No, joke about the curve. And so it goes. Just exactly the response I expected from our cons.
tailgater Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
BuckyB93 wrote:
Unless it's purpose was to mutate to porpoise-porpoise transmission.


Maybe by accident?
Or was it...
on porpoise?


tailgater Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HockeyDad wrote:
It’s a Wednesday. Election Day.


Stealing.
HockeyDad Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
Speyside wrote:
Interesting, one of the main points you cons wanted to talk about was the ruining of the economy. But crickets about the article. What? What's that? We could save a trillion if we all wore masks? Goldman Sachs is saying that? They are just talking about the economy?

Oh, better change the conversation. Lets see, complain about states rights. No, joke about the curve. And so it goes. Just exactly the response I expected from our cons.


Relax, the article gets its trillion dollar savings with the assumption that we’re going to lock down the economy again unless everyone wears a mask. We’re not shutting down again.

The title kinda says it all. A national mask mandate COULD save....it also could not. It also could stop the Martian attack. We’re getting a pretty heavy dose of this type of reporting these days.
Speyside Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
But not from Forbes. And definatly not analytics from Goldman Sachs. If you believe the economy will not be shut down again you are not paying attention. Its happening in 20 states at last count to varying degrees. Also stop your nonsense. Masks work. If you would like to talk intelegently on that subject great. Why do you think blue states have lower infection rates? Though California is an outlier. I think there are reasons for this. George Floyd protests, and wall to wall people at beaches in California. You want to keep the economy as open as possible? Wear a mask. Everyone wear a mask. Some types of businesses are in serious trouble. No matter what is open or closed. The infection rates at those types of businesses is astronomical.
HockeyDad Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
The economy is not shutting down again because the loss of tax revenue was too extreme the first time.

Blue states have lower infection rates because they wear masks and red states don’t. Well, except all those infections in California, New York, and New Jersey. NY and NJ also crushed everyone in deaths. If we count all those as outliers maybe blue states have lower infection rates.

California was the first state to shutdown and last to open. Most of the urban areas in California have been under mask orders for 3.5 months. When I hear all this “wear a mask” screaming going on I can’t even recall when we could not wear a mask (unless protesting and rioting).

Masks work. If everyone wore a mask for three weeks ‘Rona would cease to exist. OK, let’s just say masks may help reduce the spread. We released 25,000 jail and prison inmates in California because masks weren’t good enough to protect them from ‘Rona. It might be a bit more honest if we just said “masks might help with something. Masks aren’t going to hurt. We got nothing else to try. Try wearing a mask.”

teedubbya Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sigh.
HockeyDad Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
You better bring wearing a mask when you did that sigh.
teedubbya Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I am. It makes me look like the Lone Ranger.
delta1 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
lotta knuckleheads ignore the "wear a mask orders" and local law enforcement have publicly said they won't enforce them...knuckleheads threatened the life of an Orange County Public Health Director who was proposing to mandate masks, so she resigned...

we haven't really practiced EVERYBODY wearing a mask in CA...

then the Gov caved to pressure from the knuckleheads to re-open, and they all jumped into the bars and had parties: no masks and no distancing as was recommended in the re-opening guidelines

and here we are ...with higher numbers than before, and the largest number of infected under 40 (knuckleheads)
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
TW doesn't wear masks... he sprays everyone he sees... prolly leaves boogers on door handles too... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Sick
delta1 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
watda?
Speyside Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Actually the infection rate in New York is low 1.6% last time I checked. New Jersey is slightly higher. Illinois is about 2.7%. Most red states are high. There are a few outliers there also. Arizona 20.4%, Florida 14.2%, Texas 10.6%. The difference being? Prolly masks are one of the factors. Wear a mask, it will help keep the economy open.
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Never understood popo publicly saying they wouldn’t enforce a law. I understand triage and pick battles but to step into the politics up front isn’t their place.
HockeyDad Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
Speyside wrote:
Actually the infection rate in New York is low 1.6% last time I checked. New Jersey is slightly higher. Illinois is about 2.7%. Most red states are high. There are a few outliers there also. Arizona 20.4%, Florida 14.2%, Texas 10.6%. The difference being? Prolly masks are one of the factors. Wear a mask, it will help keep the economy open.


Based solely on the current positive test rate (not infection rate) it looks like NY and NJ were the best states at handling the ‘Rona. (If you ignore all the infections and deaths they’ve already had)

They maybe should have got masks back when we were told to not get masks.
Speyside Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
You look at the wrong statistic. The rate of infecting has always been the important statistic. Rate of infection is population dependant. At this point nothing should be ignored. It should be attempted to be understood. But low infection percentage will keep the economy improving. The argument can been made that people don't care. I think Arizona would be a good example of that. Many people do care and will not patronize businesses that they don't feel relatively safe entering. Infection percentage is an important issue in that regard.
tonygraz Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
I recently heard that CT and RI were doing the best, but I don't know what statistics that was based on. CT, NY and NJ have been trying to match restrictions.
Speyside Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Trump will tell us again we have beat this and it is nothing. A leader speaks many die.
frankj1 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
is it a sin for Pence to lie?
izonfire Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
frankj1 wrote:
is it a sin for Pence to lie?

It’s not a lie if he believes in it.
Have faith Papa...
frankj1 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
izonfire wrote:
It’s not a lie if he believes in it.
Have faith Papa...

George Costanza said it's not a lie if you believe it.
fiddler898 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
frankj1 wrote:
is it a sin for Pence to lie?


Only if he is in a room alone with the lie and lies with the lie.
engletl Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
RobertHively wrote:
The data I've been looking at suggests the same thing. But until then, it's showing that millions of people will die and stuff.

If this is correct we'll take the credit for it. If it's wrong we'll just get a new model and if we scare people enough nobody will call BS about our first 10 models that were incorrect.



That sounds exactly like how they model hurricanes too
BuckyB93 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,111
Nah, they've been modeling hurricanes and weather patterns for a long time and have a large enough data that these predictions are more accurate.

I find it odd that with all the study, supercomputers, historical data that we have for modeling the weather they still can't tell us with great accuracy as to how much rain we will get next week. Yet with only a few months of data collected over a small percentage of the population the experts have models that they claim predicts what to expect from the virus this coming fall.

I've even heard it said that "...the numbers to me have been surprisingly predictable. Almost vanilla."

And... "This virus is pretty predictable. It is doing what modeling suggests and when variables change it does what you would think. It is pretty vanilla"

And..."This thing is closely following predictable models given how you change variables. It's really weird in this regard. It's really not that difficult to predict what it will do given certain actions. It really is vanilla in the context of how these things usually work."

But it's coming from the experts so we shouldn't dare question them.
engletl Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
Lol...ok. Living in hurricane alley brings a different perspective to the "models" and the 24/7 doom and gloom bombardment when a storm enters the gulf.

And then, after the storm does its own thing. Sometimes the models are pretty much right but quite often they arent.
BuckyB93 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,111
It's the same thing up here in MA but in the winter months when the Nor'easters come through. The weather folks have a wet dream over this stuff because for a week or so they are relevant and the #1 leading story. 12 different reporters for each station "on site" reporting up to the minute breaking developments.

Half dozen models that fluctuate between a 2" to 24" until it comes closer. Last week it was going to be 24" of snow inland with heavy rain/snow mix at the coast. Then day of, it's 8" inland and drizzle at the coast... or 24" at the coast and just high winds inland or... "this thing is throwing everyone for a loop and... well... we dodged a big one this time."

I just find it curious that a brand new virus which entered the human population about 9 months ago can be modeled so accurately and predictably (pretty vanilla according to some experts) when the experts don't know what strain of the "normal" flu will hit for 2020-2021. As I understand it, even when they pick a strain to focus on for vaccines it's only 40-60% effective.

"During seasons when the flu vaccine viruses are similar to circulating flu viruses, flu vaccine has been shown to reduce the risk of having to go to the doctor with flu by 40 percent to 60 percent."

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm


So I'm sorry if I don't buy into the talk about these models that people supposedly have developed. Am I going to catch the flu or the Rona? I don't know, flip a coin... I call heads. I can hedge my bets by practicing normal healthy hygiene which I was taught when I was just a toddler. That being said, nose boogers are yummy and yellow snow ain't so yucky either.
tonygraz Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
euuuuw, Bucky likes yellow snow !
frankj1 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I make it from scratch
BuckyB93 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,111
tonygraz wrote:
euuuuw, Bucky likes yellow snow !


You're putting words in my mouth. Show me where I said that I like yellow snow?
tonygraz Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
BuckyB93 wrote:
... That being said, nose boogers are yummy and yellow snow ain't so yucky either.


I didn't even have to fix it for ya.
Krazeehorse Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
It's hurricane season? I'm getting a mask.
BuckyB93 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,111
tonygraz wrote:
I didn't even have to fix it for ya.


I didn't actually say that I "like" it which you claimed, I said that it "ain't so yucky." They are not identical statements so I have the freedom of denying it and accusing you of putting words in my mouth or mocking you for your inability to read and comprehend what I actually said.

It's a victor troll tool that he uses quite often - insinuate, imply, or suggest something but leave enough wiggle room to deny that it was ever directly stated.
victor809 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Since you dragged me into this... Because you think of me when I'm not even involved I suppose... I would have said you're correct. "Not so yucky" is very different than "liking" something.

It's not a troll tool. It's precision in speech. You didn't create "wiggle room" in the first statement, you specifically stated on the continuum of taste it wasn't "yucky". That does not place it anywhere specific, just above that point.

Not sure why you think of me when arguing with other people. I think you have a problem.
frankj1 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I'm kinda disappointed no one requested my recipe.
delta1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
you'd make millions if you were willing to move to Hawaii and market "Yellow Snow Shaved Ice"...

haoles are fanatics for exotic flavors of the frosty treats
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