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MACS Offline
#51 Posted: Sat, Jul 4 2020, 6:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Says a former firefighter... to a former prison guard. Pretty sure I am more intimately familiar with the process, but thanks for your input.
tailgater Offline
#52 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 8:04 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
It's not at all accurate to describe what has happened in recent weeks as mostly violence and destruction. That is what makes the headlines of what conservatives have been calling media driven sensationalism and fake news for 3 plus years now.

The peaceful way that far and away most of the protests have been pulled off may be too bland for ratings grabbing headlines, now is not the time for conservatives reverse course and point to the six o'clock news to make their point.

I'm not one to track polls, but it seems all of them show a massive amount of Americans, both liberal and conservative, have decided it's time to address the racial elephant in the room. Numbers that destroy any exaggerated margin of error.

People from every point of view have been complaining for years that it never gets "fixed". This is an opportunity to figure it out.

Let's not close the window. Get it all on the table and get it done.




It is absolutely accurate to say this movement has turned to violence to make their point.
When the violence becomes commonplace, it doesn't matter if the majority of protests are "peaceful". We've already lowered the bar and local news stations are claiming peace when "only a handful" are arrested. Hell, look at Boston. Newbury Street was destroyed and the papers still talked of a "mostly peaceful" demonstration.
Other than than, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

The smart liberals and smart conservatives who embraced this worthy cause need to step away and regroup. Many already have despite being called to task for revealing what the emperor is or isn't wearing.
Speyside Offline
#53 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 8:41 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Smart liberals and smart conservatives need to form a new combined political party. IMO that would be one fix for what ails us. Perhaps it could be called the Unicorn party.

Tail, I never back away from truth, even if it comes with problems. I try to fix the problems. I do understand what you are saying about violence and the wrongness of it. But I will not condemn the truth. I would rather fight to rid the problems attacking the truth.
victor809 Offline
#54 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I think it's funny that tail spouts some nonsense about BLM protests having turned to "violence", without any actual evidence... Then makes some claim about what he thinks "smart people" should do.

Pretty sure none of them should listen to you.

Arrests don't mean violence. They mean the police, who are being protested against, arrested some people. That is done without any looting or violence (at least on the side of the protests, the police are plenty violent).

I saw a video of a protest on a highway... I saw the video because an idiot cousin of mine posted it and claimed all the protesters should be killed... Because it showed them swarming a semi truck and pulling out the driver, and some of them attacking him. Now, of course, if you look up more than just that video (as the police defenders like to say, what happened before the video of them killing the guy in custody?), This was a peaceful protest on a closed highway... (How do I know it was peaceful? Because it was only protesters for one side, on a highway that had been closed to everyone else... There was no one and nothing for them to argue or fight with)... A truck gets past the barricade and barrels into the crowd while they're kneeling... Some people in that crowd get violent when their lives are threatened. And suddenly, in my cousin's mind it's a bunch of violent "Antifa" who should all be run over.

Anyway... Long boring story with no point other than tail's an idiot and when he claims BLM is a violent group I think of my dumb relative who doesn't actually look at all the information before deciding everyone on one side should be killed by a vehicle.
Plowboy221 Offline
#55 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 2:53 PM EST
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
1. If your talking about the Minnesota incident?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twincities.com/2020/06/01/truck-driver-on-minneapolis-highway-slammed-brakes-didnt-mean-to-hurt-anyone-officials-say/amp/

2. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1951
frankj1 Offline
#56 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 3:00 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
It is absolutely accurate to say this movement has turned to violence to make their point.
When the violence becomes commonplace, it doesn't matter if the majority of protests are "peaceful". We've already lowered the bar and local news stations are claiming peace when "only a handful" are arrested. Hell, look at Boston. Newbury Street was destroyed and the papers still talked of a "mostly peaceful" demonstration.

again, I believe we have looked at the same things and concluded different realities.
Plowboy221 Offline
#57 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 3:03 PM EST
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/armed-black-demonstrators-challenge-white-supremacist-militia-georgias-stone-mountain-park-1515494%3famp=1
victor809 Offline
#58 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
1) yes I am talking about it. And whether he meant to hurt anyone or not isn't the issue. He drove into a crowd on a closed highway at 70. If someone drives into you on an area where vehicles are not supposed to be, you'd be violent too. Or are all the people on here who carry guns never going to use them if someone threatens their life?

2) why do you think peaceful, armed black men are violent? That was a great demonstration of 2nd amendment rights.
Plowboy221 Offline
#59 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 3:21 PM EST
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
Read and re-read those articles again, let them marinate and read them again if you have too, then maybe I’ll take a second to actually argue with you.
victor809 Offline
#60 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 4:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Didn't bother reading them. I know what the two activities you are referencing. Why do I need to read either of those specific articles.

You haven't even bothered stating your stance on the events, you've just posted some random article. So I'll actually assume you agree with my assessment of both situations.
Plowboy221 Offline
#61 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 4:28 PM EST
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
No I don’t agree with you, they did not have the interstate/ramp where he was at closed when he got on I-35, he was also in aware of the protest on the interstate. When you drive a 73foot long vehicle that weighs up to 80,000 pounds and takes two football fields to stop, you have to make a last second decision to stop, the second it took for you to hit the brakes just increased the stopping distance by 50 feet or more. Also if a tanker is loaded the liquid surges forward pushing you even farther, if empty you can lock up the trailer tires and it will beginning hopping, have release the brakes and reapply hoping it won’t lock up again. Now I’m those few seconds you’ve just increased your stopping distance by about 100 feet.
victor809 Offline
#62 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 4:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So?
Honestly, what does that have to do with anything?

A protester in the street cannot tell the difference between a truck driving 70mph through the crowd intentionally, and one that is unable to stop as it drives 70mph through the crowd.

Just as if a dude pulled a gun and pointed it at you because he wanted to show you how cool it looked from the barrel down. You don't know he's not trying to kill you, you just know that he's pointing a deadly weapon at you. I'm assuming you'd shoot him with no qualms (assuming you're carrying a gun on you)...

Unless of course, you expect a thousand protesters to all be clairvoyant... His intentions are irrelevant.
victor809 Offline
#63 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 4:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
And, while the ramp was not closed when he got on (they determined he somehow got on while they were in the process of closing...)... He didn't hit the protesters until 40min later. So I'm not sure if he had parked and napped or what... But the protesters had no reason to expect a vehicle to be on the road at that time.
Plowboy221 Offline
#64 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
In the long run it doesn’t matter, it’s illegal for a pedestrian to be on the interstate, and it’s a federal offensive to interfere with interstate commerce, everyone of them should be arrested and charged to the fullest extent. Black,white, purple, queer, straight, or any of the other made up identities
victor809 Offline
#65 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 5:23 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
WTF does that do with any part of the discussion?
The point was they were peaceful. Until a civilian rammed a vehicle into them crowd.

You justifying it because you think what they did was illegal is just an attempt to distract from the actual discussion.
victor809 Offline
#66 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 5:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Oh, and the other part of the discussion, which was that tail is an idiot. Sorry, I got distracted from that point as well.
Plowboy221 Offline
#67 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 5:29 PM EST
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
Blocking an interstate or street is not peaceful, you effected business from getting supplies, forced people to be stuck in town with no way out, had one of our drivers stuck for two or three days I can’t remember because there were no truck routes out except the interstate where he was at . That’s basically being held hostage, is that peaceful? Keep it off the streets and interstates.
delta1 Offline
#68 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 5:41 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
it has been a staple of "non-violent" demonstrations to march on public streets, bridges and highways, in order to stop traffic and draw attention to the message...otherwise, nobody would be inconvenienced and would not care...

just prepare to be arrested, and most likely roughed up in the process...that's the violent, non peaceful, part of the demonstration...when the police end the protest using non-peaceful means...

tear gas and rubber bullets have replaced vicious dogs and high pressure fire hoses...billy clubs are still effective "tools" to stop demonstrations
victor809 Offline
#69 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 5:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Dude plowboy, you just moved the goalposts on what "peaceful" is.
You clearly have zero interest in a conversation. You just want BLM to be violent protests in your mind, regardless of what the truth is.

Might want to ask yourself why that's so important to you.
Plowboy221 Offline
#70 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 5:54 PM EST
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
The no is paying attention part Is a lame excuse to me and still doesn’t justify the lawlessness of blocking an interstate or highway. There are plenty of people that have payed attention, they can change it in November (lmao). If anyone and I mean anyone that thinks anyone in a political position, mayor, governor, congress, White House past or present, future actually gives a flying f**k about 98% of the population paying taxes, filling there back pocket is hilarious.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#71 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 8:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,423
The Washington Warrens... 1/1024% willing to assuage white guilt for the sake of parity.

Pow Wow Chow everybody.
Speyside Offline
#72 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:18 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I thought they already picked DC dickless
Speyside Offline
#73 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:40 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
****** just checking.
Speyside Offline
#74 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:41 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Dickhead.
Speyside Offline
#75 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:41 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
DickVan****.
Speyside Offline
#76 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:42 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
****.
Speyside Offline
#77 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:43 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Hollanddike.
Speyside Offline
#78 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:43 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
DickVan****.
Speyside Offline
#79 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:44 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Dickvandike.
Speyside Offline
#80 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:44 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Dickvan****.
Speyside Offline
#81 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:45 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
****.
Speyside Offline
#82 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:45 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Ok then.
Speyside Offline
#83 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:46 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So you can put your finger in a ****.
Speyside Offline
#84 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:47 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Man, the little Dutch boy is in trouble here.
Speyside Offline
#85 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:48 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Victor, have you ever put your ****** in a ****?
Speyside Offline
#86 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:49 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So you can put your finger in a cementdike but not a butch****?
Speyside Offline
#87 Posted: Sun, Jul 5 2020, 9:50 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Ok, got it figured out. Heck, I should have done this on the 500.
izonfire Offline
#88 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 12:06 AM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,647
Looks like you’re going for your own 500...
BuckyB93 Offline
#89 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 3:53 AM EST
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
A d!ke has water on one side where a dam has water on both sides. CBid promotes division between bodies of water not unison. Damn CBid trying to divide the world in times like these.
tailgater Offline
#90 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 8:23 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Smart liberals and smart conservatives need to form a new combined political party. IMO that would be one fix for what ails us. Perhaps it could be called the Unicorn party.

Tail, I never back away from truth, even if it comes with problems. I try to fix the problems. I do understand what you are saying about violence and the wrongness of it. But I will not condemn the truth. I would rather fight to rid the problems attacking the truth.


I don't think anyone is being asked to condemn the truth.
tailgater Offline
#91 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 8:28 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I think it's funny that tail spouts some nonsense about BLM protests having turned to "violence", without any actual evidence... Then makes some claim about what he thinks "smart people" should do.

Pretty sure none of them should listen to you.

Arrests don't mean violence. They mean the police, who are being protested against, arrested some people. That is done without any looting or violence (at least on the side of the protests, the police are plenty violent).

I saw a video of a protest on a highway... I saw the video because an idiot cousin of mine posted it and claimed all the protesters should be killed... Because it showed them swarming a semi truck and pulling out the driver, and some of them attacking him. Now, of course, if you look up more than just that video (as the police defenders like to say, what happened before the video of them killing the guy in custody?), This was a peaceful protest on a closed highway... (How do I know it was peaceful? Because it was only protesters for one side, on a highway that had been closed to everyone else... There was no one and nothing for them to argue or fight with)... A truck gets past the barricade and barrels into the crowd while they're kneeling... Some people in that crowd get violent when their lives are threatened. And suddenly, in my cousin's mind it's a bunch of violent "Antifa" who should all be run over.

Anyway... Long boring story with no point other than tail's an idiot and when he claims BLM is a violent group I think of my dumb relative who doesn't actually look at all the information before deciding everyone on one side should be killed by a vehicle.


Without proof?
LOL!

Forget Newbury Street in Boston (the previous proof I offered).
Secoriea Turner is dead.
8 years old. And you want to spout off about there being no violence. No proof.
WTF do you need to admit BLM is a militant group of thugs who have perverted their cause?
If a dead little girl is proof enough then you are a twisted and sick fuq.

victor809 Offline
#92 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 9:24 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Without proof?
LOL!

Forget Newbury Street in Boston (the previous proof I offered).
Secoriea Turner is dead.
8 years old. And you want to spout off about there being no violence. No proof.
WTF do you need to admit BLM is a militant group of thugs who have perverted their cause?
If a dead little girl is proof enough then you are a twisted and sick fuq.



Not to put too fine a point on it, but are you saying that the police are a militant group of thugs who have perverted their cause?
If a dead little girl isn't proof enough then you are a twisted and sick fuq.



Side note... we know very few details about this particular instance. Given the rash of people driving cars into protesters, I wonder if they thought they were being attacked.
victor809 Offline
#93 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 9:25 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
What's the running joke...


It's apparently wrong to judge all police by a few bad apples, but we're supposed to judge an entire movement by a few instances of violence?
tailgater Offline
#94 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 9:33 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but are you saying that the police are a militant group of thugs who have perverted their cause?
If a dead little girl isn't proof enough then you are a twisted and sick fuq.



Side note... we know very few details about this particular instance. Given the rash of people driving cars into protesters, I wonder if they thought they were being attacked.


So you side with the occupiers who shot the 8 year old girl dead.

Good to know.
tailgater Offline
#95 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 9:39 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
What's the running joke...


It's apparently wrong to judge all police by a few bad apples, but we're supposed to judge an entire movement by a few instances of violence?


Few instances?
Maybe you and I don't agree on what constitutes violence.

Certainly the dead little girl.
But I would include looting and rioting and burning and defacing monuments.
That makes it much more than a "few" instances.
If we exclude these, as you seem to be doing, then what you're saying is true.





victor809 Offline
#96 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 9:45 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
So you side with the occupiers who shot the 8 year old girl dead.

Good to know.


..... I side with no one until I have information.
But even if she died due to some protesters, that doesn't mean the movement is violent. It means those protesters were violent.

If you were going to get your panties in a wad over a dead kid you should have started years ago. Police have been killing kids for a long time "by accident".
victor809 Offline
#97 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 9:48 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Few instances?
Maybe you and I don't agree on what constitutes violence.

Certainly the dead little girl.
But I would include looting and rioting and burning and defacing monuments.
That makes it much more than a "few" instances.
If we exclude these, as you seem to be doing, then what you're saying is true.







Dude.
Tally up to the total number of people and hours that have been spent protesting for more than a month now and multiply them together. (this gets you your total man hours)

Then do the same for the total number of people and hours that have been involved in violent activities (looting, rioting, burning).

I guarantee you that you're going to get a small percentage if you divide the second number by the first.
Speyside Offline
#98 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 11:45 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
After reading about her death it is an assumption to say it was BLM related. There are no facts to support that. It could be from literally any awful human in that neighborhood. All you can assume was that it happened near the Wendys lot.
victor809 Offline
#99 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Speyside wrote:
After reading about her death it is an assumption to say it was BLM related. There are no facts to support that. It could be from literally any awful human in that neighborhood. All you can assume was that it happened near the Wendys lot.


I dunno. The news I read suggests that the shooter was doing something with some barricades (implied setting them up). Absent any other information, it's not irrational to assume that they were associated with the protests.

Not a certainty, of course, but I don't criticize people for coming to that initial conclusion.
HockeyDad Offline
#100 Posted: Mon, Jul 6 2020, 12:05 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
Speyside wrote:
After reading about her death it is an assumption to say it was BLM related. There are no facts to support that. It could be from literally any awful human in that neighborhood. All you can assume was that it happened near the Wendys lot.


I think it’s a safe assumption that it was the Russians that killed her.
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