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Should K-12 Be Required To Go Back to School Full Time This Fall?
frankj1 Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
And let me add, the charter schools that don't perform well are simply closed.
Not by a governing board, but by capitalism.
Nobody goes there, then nobody pays them and they close.

Again, no wonder the public schools fear them.
Maybe they think it's a bad precedent.




they may also be closed by government if under performing. not sure if that is measured the same way regular public schools are rated. I expect you know.

But it's not capitalism if it's a free alternative public school. Tax money from local districts, fed grants etc...unless that has also changed since I had a dog in the fight.

they can be excellent for many students, but used to have real issues with physically disabled students and some others outside of the norm, whatever that is. Kids with behavioral issues and other problems could simply be tossed out, public schools are not allowed such leeway until the kid ages out.

Public schools are mandated to educate each special ed child in the district, this requires tons of specialists, which has decimated the budgets (funded by us taxpayers) the last several decades...unfunded state mandates, btw!

They should do better than traditional public schools when they can shape the population after accepting a class.
Not quite tax payer supported private schools, but similar freedom from federal and state demands.

I'm out of child rearing so don't know if they ever addressed those issues.
delta1 Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,755
Charter schools in CA are a mixed bag...some are funded by public money while others are private...

some do well and others don't...even with the advantages of cherry-picking students and avoiding special education, choices unavailable to public schools

of course they are swimming upstream because of severe opposition from the powerful teachers union...

there are some very good public school districts throughout the state, and there are also some deplorable ones...

my wife taught for the LAUSD, which is one of the largest in the US...it has some great schools, and many terrible ones...she was a great elementary teacher who spent nearly as much time at her craft at home as she did in her classroom...sadly, she was among a few hardworking and dedicated teachers...she said a lot of her younger colleagues were there just for the benefits and paycheck, caring little for their charges
opelmanta1900 Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
elementary schools in our town are charter schools... never really think about it cuz they function like a public school for the most part...
tailgater Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
they may also be closed by government if under performing. not sure if that is measured the same way regular public schools are rated. I expect you know.

But it's not capitalism if it's a free alternative public school. Tax money from local districts, fed grants etc...unless that has also changed since I had a dog in the fight.
.


It is indeed capitalism.
People CHOOSE to go, and only then does the school get the local tax money.
If nobody chooses to go then they don't get the money.
tailgater Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Seems like different states do it differently.

I can only speak about Massachusetts.
zitotczito Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
Yes, this way we can kill off the kids that are not shot in the cities or murdered through abortion. And it has a two fold benefit, the kids can infect their parents and elders and kill them off also. Depending on the kill rate we can lower the surplus population and help fix the climate. And since we are using so much sanitizer, we are creating super bugs that will take care of the people that Covid-19 does not. This is a pure win-win for the planet.
frankj1 Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
It is indeed capitalism.
People CHOOSE to go, and only then does the school get the local tax money.
If nobody chooses to go then they don't get the money.


I may be Commie #13, but that is not how I would define capitalism...people select something and then that selection gets our tax money?
Private schools are more the model that comes to mind due to private money buying the product. People like it enough to buy it themselves but I don't have to kick in money. And they are for profit...might be wrong but I don't think Charters have to make money.

Understand I am not against charter schools at all. Not even a little...But it's not a fair fight to compare overall student achievement vs traditional public schools.

Relating to the OP, Joe, do you know if the Charters can decide if/when/how to open this Fall independently of Public schools? Too lazy to look into it, and only curious.
Just Relax Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
Public schools in Indiana are the similar to charter schools as far as getting dollars per student, and the best districts have figured out the perfect number of out of district students allowed in to maximize funds without straining resources. As the population expands or retracts in communities the total number of those accepted in offsets the changes. Typically once accepted you’re grandfathered in for future decreases in out of district numbers. Class size is controlled via those requesting enrollment for the first time.
tailgater Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I may be Commie #13, but that is not how I would define capitalism...people select something and then that selection gets our tax money?
Private schools are more the model that comes to mind due to private money buying the product. People like it enough to buy it themselves but I don't have to kick in money. And they are for profit...might be wrong but I don't think Charters have to make money.

Understand I am not against charter schools at all. Not even a little...But it's not a fair fight to compare overall student achievement vs traditional public schools.

Relating to the OP, Joe, do you know if the Charters can decide if/when/how to open this Fall independently of Public schools? Too lazy to look into it, and only curious.


Charter schools are private entities that get paid through public monies.
No different than if my company took on a government contract, but one that required the public to opt-in.

Yes. Capitalism.
Although we're discussing just one aspect of it.

tailgater Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
zitotczito wrote:
Yes, this way we can kill off the kids that are not shot in the cities or murdered through abortion. And it has a two fold benefit, the kids can infect their parents and elders and kill them off also. Depending on the kill rate we can lower the surplus population and help fix the climate. And since we are using so much sanitizer, we are creating super bugs that will take care of the people that Covid-19 does not. This is a pure win-win for the planet.


Does anyone else hear the bluebirds singing and see the shiny rainbows when reading this?

zitotczito Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
tailgater wrote:
Does anyone else hear the bluebirds singing and see the shiny rainbows when reading this?



I have already seen that the grass in my front yard is greener.
frankj1 Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Does anyone else hear the bluebirds singing and see the shiny rainbows when reading this?


zito may hate this, but it could have been written by Victor!!!

Too funny.
frankj1 Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Charter schools are private entities that get paid through public monies.
No different than if my company took on a government contract, but one that required the public to opt-in.

Yes. Capitalism.
Although we're discussing just one aspect of it.


private schools are not held to the same standards of public schools, they don't even have to have certified teachers, nor do they get any of my tax money I pay to support schools that can not cherry pick their final enrollment.

I'm not against charter schools as I've said, but I am against the idea that they can prove superiority over public schools when they can shed the constrictions.

What percentage of the cost do families of charter school students pay?

tailgater Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
zitotczito wrote:
I have already seen that the grass in my front yard is greener.


It appears to be a hybrid of Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia.
tailgater Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
private schools are not held to the same standards of public schools, they don't even have to have certified teachers, nor do they get any of my tax money I pay to support schools that can not cherry pick their final enrollment.

I'm not against charter schools as I've said, but I am against the idea that they can prove superiority over public schools when they can shed the constrictions.

What percentage of the cost do families of charter school students pay?



Whoa. Take a step back.

If you pay taxes to your town, then you pay to the school system. Always the biggest nut in the barrel from my experience.
When little Sally goes to Chitty Chitty Charter School, the town's school marm pries open her purse and sends the money.
So it's YOUR tax dollars that pay the school.
Nothing additional by the actual consumer. No out of pocket.

As for cherry picking?
Nope. Doesn't happen. Not in Massachusetts.
For a school to receive the charter in this state, their enrollment is by lottery only.
Only exception is that siblings get precedent.

And I don't know what you mean by "held to the same standards". As I mentioned earlier, the bad schools fail. The way I see it, the only "standards" the public schools have is to cater to the lowest denominator. They're designed to make all things equal, and to anyone with eyes and ears it's quickly apparent that this means holding back the over-achievers.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of schools do very well with what they're tasked with.
But overall it's a cluster fuq.

As you know, I have three kids (all now out of the school system).
Two stayed in public school. One went to the charter.
All three excelled to their ability, and I witnessed first hand the pros and cons of each.

Just recognize this:
Bad charter schools fail. And they close.
Bad public schools get propped up with more tax dollars. And they continue to fail. Year after year.
bgz Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
tailgater wrote:
The way I see it, the only "standards" the public schools have is to cater to the lowest denominator. They're designed to make all things equal, and to anyone with eyes and ears it's quickly apparent that this means holding back the over-achievers.


I don't think it matters much anymore. The worlds knowledge is at your fingertips. Anyone that wants to learn more, will learn more.

Oh, charter schools aren't any better... not enough to produce a standard deviation worth of difference anyway. Internet is changing sh*t, it's changing us.

Speaking of which, we have the option to do the fall semester virtually, or do it in the classroom.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
bgz wrote:
I don't think it matters much anymore. The worlds knowledge is at your fingertips. Anyone that wants to learn more, will learn more.

Oh, charter schools aren't any better... not enough to produce a standard deviation worth of difference anyway. Internet is changing sh*t, it's changing us.

Speaking of which, we have the option to do the fall semester virtually, or do it in the classroom.

Agreed 100%...

We HAD the option to send our kids back... 60% said they planned to do so... yesterday the governor said kick rocks you inbred hillbillies... no school this fall...
rfenst Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
zitotczito wrote:
I have already seen that the grass in my front yard is greener.

Well played!
frankj1 Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Whoa. Take a step back.

If you pay taxes to your town, then you pay to the school system. Always the biggest nut in the barrel from my experience.
When little Sally goes to Chitty Chitty Charter School, the town's school marm pries open her purse and sends the money.
So it's YOUR tax dollars that pay the school.
Nothing additional by the actual consumer. No out of pocket.

um, this was my point. You can't have it. Public tax money, not capitalism.

As for cherry picking?
Nope. Doesn't happen. Not in Massachusetts.
For a school to receive the charter in this state, their enrollment is by lottery only.
Only exception is that siblings get precedent.

not totally true. Charter schools can eject kids for different reasons. Real public schools then have to reabsorb them.


And I don't know what you mean by "held to the same standards". As I mentioned earlier, the bad schools fail. The way I see it, the only "standards" the public schools have is to cater to the lowest denominator. They're designed to make all things equal, and to anyone with eyes and ears it's quickly apparent that this means holding back the over-achievers.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of schools do very well with what they're tasked with.
But overall it's a cluster fuq.

held to the same standards is not hard to understand.
How many languages must charters adjust to by law? In my town, there are something like 40 languages spoken in the home. Which charter schools near me that use my money can educate the kids in my neighborhood?
Traditional public schools do not bring down standards for higher achievers, hence Advanced Placement level classes and so on. But at the same time they are mandated to educate every single kid charter schools get rid of. How mant "base learners" are thriving in charter schools?

Maybe we should look at the top, not the arena where the teachers are living. In my town, it appears the money leaks are that we are salary heavy in administration. Should be easy to fix as those jobs are not part of the union.


As you know, I have three kids (all now out of the school system).
Two stayed in public school. One went to the charter.
All three excelled to their ability, and I witnessed first hand the pros and cons of each.

tonygraz Offline
#120 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,178
The grass in my front yard is yellowish and crunchy, but I don't see where going back to school has anything to do with it.
tailgater Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Frank,
It is entirely capitalism when a for-profit organization gets paid, even if by "public" money. If I land a contract with your town to manufacture widgets for town hall, is that not capitalism? Is there a loophole that I'm missing?

Charter schools can't cherry pick. If their state-approved standards are too much for a student to handle, then yes, a student may be forced to walk away. And I'm sure many aren't set up to accommodate certain disabilities. But this is a far cry from cherry picking.

Charter schools are forced to excel, or fail.
Public schools are not.

Most of the angst against charter schools is fueled by the teachers union, and by misinformation.
The best thing about charter schools is this: you can choose to not send your kid there. Even if it's because they don't speak your language. Materially, that's no different than a school that emphasizes math and science when your kid is focusing on the arts.

My son stayed within the public school system because of the outstanding STEM program. Sturgis Charter, in all her glory, would not have provided him with the same resources in this arena.
Meanwhile, his older sister benefited greatly from the charter, and from being out of the public school. It was a better fit.

Why shouldn't parents be allowed this choice?
frankj1 Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Frank,
It is entirely capitalism when a for-profit organization gets paid, even if by "public" money. If I land a contract with your town to manufacture widgets for town hall, is that not capitalism? Is there a loophole that I'm missing?

Charter schools can't cherry pick. If their state-approved standards are too much for a student to handle, then yes, a student may be forced to walk away. And I'm sure many aren't set up to accommodate certain disabilities. But this is a far cry from cherry picking.

Charter schools are forced to excel, or fail.
Public schools are not.

Most of the angst against charter schools is fueled by the teachers union, and by misinformation.
The best thing about charter schools is this: you can choose to not send your kid there. Even if it's because they don't speak your language. Materially, that's no different than a school that emphasizes math and science when your kid is focusing on the arts.

My son stayed within the public school system because of the outstanding STEM program. Sturgis Charter, in all her glory, would not have provided him with the same resources in this arena.
Meanwhile, his older sister benefited greatly from the charter, and from being out of the public school. It was a better fit.

Why shouldn't parents be allowed this choice?

I am, once again, fully in support of having this choice available.
I did know you have had kids do both.
Glad you had the opportunity to do the best for the kids.

the other stuff, I'm losing interest.
Low energy last couple of days.
rfenst Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
Op-ED from NYT

How to Reopen the Economy Without Killing Teachers and Parents
All classes should be online, but school buildings could still serve an important purpose for the kids who need them most.


The debate about reopening schools seems to pit parents and their employers against teachers. But there is actually a solution that would let grown-ups go back to work, educate kids and keep everyone safe at the same time.

More than 140,000 Americans have died from Covid-19, and there are growing outbreaks in many states. No other developed nation has sent children back to school with the virus at these levels. Data about transmission in classrooms is limited. Many teachers have health risks and are understandably afraid to return. The safest course would be for kindergartners through 12th graders to continue with online courses in the fall.

But what about the millions of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds whose homes are not conducive to online learning and who rely on schools for meals? And what about parents who cannot work from home and watch over them?

The Trump administration is pressing schools to provide full-time in-person classes. But schools can’t open five days a week for all students while meeting the six-foot social distancing guidelines. Many are contemplating alternating in-class and online learning. How will such a system help parents, kids and businesses get back to a normal schedule — a pressing need at a time when 51 million Americans are unemployed?

There is a better way: Allow schools to offer only virtual classes this fall, and convert schools and other large unused spaces into Safe Centers for Online Learning. We could call them not schools, but “SCOLs.”

This is not a radical concept. Many universities are bringing some portion of their student body back to campus, but still holding classes mostly or exclusively online.

Staff members would simply help students connect to online courses provided by their schools — they would not need to be teachers themselves with subject matter expertise. Recent college graduates could be recruited to work at these centers, and a college loan forgiveness program could incentivize participation. While some teachers could opt to work in a SCOL, most would be able to work remotely and spend their time developing effective online classes.

In addition to schools, we could create these centers in the many large venues that will sit vacant this fall, such as convention centers, stadiums, performing arts centers and parks. The physical requirements are modest. Students need only a desk and a laptop, many of which were already distributed when schools went online this spring. Mobile partitions can convert large venues into units that each host a small number of students wearing masks and sitting at physically-distanced desks.

The centers could provide meals for students who rely on them. Mental health and other counselors could reserve a cubicle to see students. In the case of an outbreak, students could go back to online learning from home or be redeployed to a different center.

It’s undeniable that online classes lack many of the benefits of in-person learning. But a suboptimal academic semester — or even a year — is one thing. Sickness and death is another.

Less than 1 percent of the federal relief package passed in March was dedicated to K-12 education. Congress needs to step up and pass a much larger bill. Rather than spending billions on in-person classes that would put everyone at risk and not even allow us to reopen the economy, let’s fund creative options like SCOLs, which do.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#124 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Lots of ideas of that nature being floated right now... intelligent people know that things aren't returning to the way they were, ever... intelligent people know this is the time to enact meaningful change to our archaic education system.... there's literally no downside to virtual learning, only people who really want to go back to what's comfortable instead of going ahead into what is the future...
rfenst Offline
#125 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
Change can be a good thing. Our society has been accustomed to in-class/person learning for centuries. While we need to change education models relatively quickly, it is going to be a long while until our society comes to terms with that. Suggestions like those in the op-ed are a good start off point.
tailgater Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I am, once again, fully in support of having this choice available.
I did know you have had kids do both.
Glad you had the opportunity to do the best for the kids.

the other stuff, I'm losing interest.
Low energy last couple of days.


You crossing the bridge this summer?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
rfenst wrote:
Change can be a good thing. Our society has been accustomed to in-class/person learning for centuries. While we need to change education models relatively quickly, it is going to be a long while until our society comes to terms with that. Suggestions like those in the op-ed are a good start off point.

Some school bus drivers in California are still running their bus routes, but instead of picking up kids, they drop off breakfasts and lunches at the bus stops... innovative solutions like that are what we need right now.... It'd be nice to see some concentration - from both sides - on implementing these types of necessary changes...
tailgater Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Some school bus drivers in California are still running their bus routes, but instead of picking up kids, they drop off breakfasts and lunches at the bus stops... innovative solutions like that are what we need right now.... It'd be nice to see some concentration - from both sides - on implementing these types of necessary changes...


Innovative solutions?
Using a bus as a delivery vehicle?

It's a feel good stop gap.
I'm glad they're doing it, but it has no sustainability.

Although I can see how the built-in inefficiency appeals to the politicians.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
tailgater wrote:
Innovative solutions?
Using a bus as a delivery vehicle?

It's a feel good stop gap.
I'm glad they're doing it, but it has no sustainability.

Although I can see how the built-in inefficiency appeals to the politicians.

Ok, well thats a dumb take... they're using busses because those are the vehicles they have and that are insured through the school district at the moment... to believe those busses can't be exchanged eventually for more economical vehicles, well, i already used the word for that kind of thinking...

and it's keeping people working...

and it's addressing one of the biggest concerns of no in-person schooling - children not getting fed...

So yes, innovative...

Geritol... it can't hurt you....
HockeyDad Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,070
frankj1 wrote:
I am, once again, fully in support of having this choice available.
I did know you have had kids do both.
Glad you had the opportunity to do the best for the kids.

the other stuff, I'm losing interest.
Low energy last couple of days.


Low energy....you catch the ‘Rona?
delta1 Offline
#131 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,755
on-line learning is great if there is a responsible adult guiding an elementary school aged kid taking in a lesson on a screen...how often will that happen in most homes?
rfenst Offline
#132 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
Summer camps bring virus warning in test run for schools

Summer camps in parts of the U.S. are closing as children and counselors test positive for COVID-19, a troubling sign as the country debates whether schools should start in-person instruction as soon as next month.

From storied sleep-away camps in Missouri and Arkansas to city-run day programs in small-town Texas, a staple of the American summer is finding it’s not immune to the pandemic. At least seven have canceled sessions in the past four weeks, with 191 children and staffers testing positive.

The camps’ experience raises questions about one of the biggest economic challenges facing the country: how to open schools safely. Without in-person education, many parents will have to spend substantial time and energy supervising lessons.

Few officials are eager to charge ahead. California on Friday said public schools in its hardest-hit counties won’t open for on-campus classes until the virus is contained, an order that could affect more than 70% of the most populous U.S. state.
A new study from South Korea could reshape other school systems’ reopening plans.0

It found that people ages 10 to 19 were more likely to spread COVID-19 within a household than younger children and adults were. Children under 10 spread the virus at the lowest rate, though researchers warned that could change when schools reopen.

Children and teens, at first thought to be spared the worst of the virus, also are accounting for a rising percentage of infections in the U.S. The trend likely reflects both an increase in the ability of young people to get tested, as well as their desire to venture out after months of staying home.

It was that sort of break Hannah Lebovits wanted for her two kids when she sent them to a day camp in Plano at the end of June. “I was thinking, ‘Well, they’re really the lowest-risk group, and even if something came up, it’ll probably be manageable,’” said Lebovits, 27, an incoming assistant professor at the University of Texas at Arlington.

The first week was great. The second, which followed the Saturday of July 4th, was a different story. First, the camp alerted parents that a child in the 5- and 6-year-old group had tested positive for COVID-19. They decided to test the counselors. Two had the virus. By Tuesday, a 3-year-old had tested positive, and the camp was shutting down.
“They did everything right,” said Lebovits. Children were kept in pods to limit their exposure. Temperature checks were required. Drop-off was outside, and parents were kept from entering the building. Lebovits, who had enrolled her kids in school for the fall, said the experience has changed her mind on just how feasible in-person instruction will be.
“I don’t think it’s possible,” she said. “They’re going to end up home in a month.”


The overnight camp Kanakuk in Missouri had 82 campers, counselors and staff test positive for the virus, according to a statement from the Stone County Health Department this month. Camp Ozark in Arkansas on July 7 announced it was moving up “closing day” due to “additional, but limited spread.” State officials said they were aware of four cases, but deferred a full count to the camp, which didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Another in Illinois closed for two weeks after four staff members developed COVID, according to KSDK television. In Wichita Falls, Texas, the city-run Camp Summer Fun closed after an employee tested positive, the Times Record News reported.

The YMCA said in a statement that it immediately closed two Georgia locations after learning that a counselor tested positive June 24. The counselor had passed the mandatory safety protocols and had tested negative before the start of camp, the group said. Kanakuk didn’t respond to requests for comment. Chabad of Plano, which operated the camp the Lebovits children attended, didn’t immediately have comment.

It’s too soon to say whether cases at summer camps reflect the rapid spread occurring in communities across the country — or if they’re the direct result of transmission in cabins, food halls and craft rooms.
“What’s hard to tell is whether there’s transmission at the camps themselves,” said Jill Weatherhead, assistant professor of infectious disease and tropical medicine at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston.
The American Camp Association, which counts more than 3,100 facilities as members, said that’s a key distinction. “An outbreak by definition is different from having a case or two identified at the camp,” Tom Rosenberg, the group’s chief executive officer, said in an interview. So far, about 50 camps have had a camper or staff member test positive, he said. “It’s a pretty small fraction.”

The ACA has 10 protocols that it recommended before the summer season that Rosenberg refers to as “layers of prevention.” It includes asking families to “shelter in place” ahead of showing up to camp, quarantining positive cases and requiring masks.

“Some of the experience is showing us that the camps that have employed all of these non-pharmaceutical interventions” are successful, said Rosenberg. “But if you only employ some of them, Mother Nature is not as forgiving.”

Studies suggest that children don’t suffer from severe coronavirus symptoms as often as adults. Most show no or very mild effects. But a long list of unknowns remains when it comes to infections among the young. What are the long-term effects? How likely are they to spread it to one other — or to their counselors, teachers or parents?

“We’re too early really to understand the long-term implications in adults, but particularly in children,” Weatherhead said. “You’re talking about young children where the bodies are still growing and the lungs are still maturing.”

More infected kids also means more children who end up experiencing severe symptoms. Texas Children’s Hospital in Houston has recently expanded its COVID-19 capacity to prepare for an increase in hospitalizations among the young.
“In that early experience, we had just a handful of patients, but really in the last three or four weeks our numbers have gone up quite significantly,” said Lara Shekerdemian, chief of critical care at the hospital.


“The vast majority do really well,” she said. “There is a proportion who do become sicker than that. Some require life support in the ICU, so there is a whole spectrum.”

What’s particularly challenging are cases that don’t come with symptoms. Children will be brought in to the hospital for a routine procedure, such as an appendectomy, only for their parents to learn that they’re infected, said Shekerdemian.
“The biggest danger is the people without symptoms, because they go about their daily life,” she said. “We don’t know the transmission rate.”without symptoms, because they go about their daily life,” she said. “We don’t know the transmission rate.”

Forbes
BuckyB93 Offline
#133 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,115
I’m not sure pure on-line and computer teaching is or will be as effective as teacher to student interaction. I’ll use algebra as an example. The student goes through all the readings, all the examples, all the exercises, watches all the lectures but something just ain’t clicking. So he goes back and repeats all that stuff again but it’s only replaying the same thing he just went through. There's no different way of explaining it so it’s still not going to click. There is no live interaction where a human can step in for a little extra help, go at it from a different angle, explain it a different way that helps the kid get over the hump.

I think we’ve all had that happen to us many times. Where something ain’t making sense until someone explains it with a different twist and then the “Ahhh Ha! I get it now” happens. When the gears finally engage and you can move forward. I think for any new way of learning to be successful there has to be a mix of on-line stuff and some human interaction from someone with a pulse on the topic and the personality of the student that allows them to teach them just a little bit different than the cookie cutter computer algorithm. It could be a teacher, a mentor, a tutor or whoever that is available in real time to help get them over the bump to continue moving and not staying stuck in the rut.

Also, if you think the parents are the ones that can do this, you’re high. Not every parent is capable of teaching all the different subjects that students take in a well rounded education.

Through my education to getting an engineering degree I had to take a bunch of math $#!+ but if I were to try to teach precalc to my daughter and try to find the answer to the following straightforward precalc example problem… I’d be lost.

Find the standard form of the rectangular equation of the circle with polar equation r = 5*(cos θ).

I challenge anyone here or within your circle of contacts to answer the above problem correctly within 2 minutes of reading it (simulate a timed test)
frankj1 Offline
#134 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
HockeyDad wrote:
Low energy....you catch the ‘Rona?

I'm on "E" running from all the red staters who have the cooties fleeing here to be safe...
frankj1 Offline
#135 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
You crossing the bridge this summer?

haven't yet, hope to but no solid plan. Would love to do even a day at a beach and something to eat, as you know not a long ride home after that.
some friends are using a condo at Ocean Edge, I'm not comfortable enough yet to do that though. Got a little granddaughter and a 100 year old mother to protect from my poor decisions.
Will call you immediately once I know we are gonna head that way, if we can make it work, it would be great.
Love to Mrs. T...always loved her Bloody Mary mix.
frankj1 Offline
#136 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
still lotsa kids without the laptops/phones/ipads etc at home.
Other issues that might exclude lower income families and/or families where parents work two or more shifts trying to buy the dream for the next generation...

far from saying it can't be done, but want to be careful not to further widen the gap between the haves and have nots.
HockeyDad Offline
#137 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,070
frankj1 wrote:
still lotsa kids without the laptops/phones/ipads etc at home.
Other issues that might exclude lower income families and/or families where parents work two or more shifts trying to buy the dream for the next generation...

far from saying it can't be done, but want to be careful not to further widen the gap between the haves and have nots.


So far everything we did in the whole shutdown/ save us from the Rona widened the gap between the have and have not and big corporate versus mom and pop. Distance learning is just an extension of that.
frankj1 Offline
#138 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
HockeyDad wrote:
So far everything we did in the whole shutdown/ save us from the Rona widened the gap between the have and have not and big corporate versus mom and pop. Distance learning is just an extension of that.

yup.
do I detect you hinting it's part of the plan?
RobertHively Offline
#139 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,762
frankj1 wrote:
I'm on "E" running from all the red staters who have the cooties fleeing here to be safe...


Come on Frank, nobody from a red state is going to flee to Taxachusetts.
frankj1 Offline
#140 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
RobertHively wrote:
Come on Frank, nobody from a red state is going to flee to Taxachusetts.

where did I say they were bright?
BuckyB93 Offline
#141 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,115
HockeyDad wrote:
So far everything we did in the whole shutdown/ save us from the Rona widened the gap between the have and have not and big corporate versus mom and pop. Distance learning is just an extension of that.


In my little town I know of at least 2 mom and pop businesses off the top of my head that didn't survive the Rona. A popular barbershop that's been handed down through 3 generations and a popular breakfast and lunch diner - add two more vacant store fronts in a struggling downtown.

No biggie, the national chain businesses of SuperCuts and the 99 Pub and Friendly's lasted the storm so we got that going for us. Maybe we can revitalize that quaint New England downtown look by back filling with a couple handmade face mask boutiques.
zody Offline
#142 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2005
Posts: 1,149
frankj1 wrote:
still lotsa kids without the laptops/phones/ipads etc at home.
Other issues that might exclude lower income families and/or families where parents work two or more shifts trying to buy the dream for the next generation...

far from saying it can't be done, but want to be careful not to further widen the gap between the haves and have nots.



have


























have not







Is that wide enough?








Frakk 'em, get a coupon or something












frankj1 Offline
#143 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
BuckyB93 wrote:
In my little town I know of at least 2 mom and pop businesses off the top of my head that didn't survive the Rona. A popular barbershop that's been handed down through 3 generations and a popular breakfast and lunch diner - add two more vacant store fronts in a struggling downtown.

No biggie, the national chain businesses of SuperCuts and the 99 Pub and Friendly's lasted the storm so we got that going for us. Maybe we can revitalize that quaint New England downtown look by back filling with a couple handmade face mask boutiques.

You got a Friendly's?
Grew up with 'em. Don't think they ever got much bigger than regional.
They were pretty much gone and then about 8/10 years ago a former employee from Quincy or Weymouth or somewhere near me bought them out as they were shutting down everywhere. He did a nice job but the rona is killing off what he salvaged. He's a victim, not a big shot.
HockeyDad Offline
#144 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,070
frankj1 wrote:
yup.
do I detect you hinting it's part of the plan?


One of the ways the Democrats keep them on the plantation while promising that they’re looking out for their best interests far more than the Republicans.
frankj1 Offline
#145 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
HockeyDad wrote:
One of the ways the Democrats keep them on the plantation while promising that they’re looking out for their best interests far more than the Republicans.

those dems switched to GOP when LBJ signed that thing.
BuckyB93 Offline
#146 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,115
frankj1 wrote:
You got a Friendly's?
Grew up with 'em. Don't think they ever got much bigger than regional.
They were pretty much gone and then about 8/10 years ago a former employee from Quincy or Weymouth or somewhere near me bought them out as they were shutting down everywhere. He did a nice job but the rona is killing off what he salvaged. He's a victim, not a big shot.


Really? I thought they are a staple all around New England. In this part of the state, they can be found in just about any town the size of Gadnah or larger (~ 20k). You can find their branded ice cream in all the grocery stores. I don't think they are anything special food or ice cream wise. To me it's just another chain like IHOP.

It's weird that for such a small state (geographically) MA has quite different demographics at a regional/county level with respect to bushiness, population, attitude, cost of living. I've seen it evolve over the 27 year's that I've been here as the urban sprawl eats into the outlying areas. Older farm land being sold to develop subdivisions for the commuters.
HockeyDad Offline
#147 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,070
frankj1 wrote:
those dems switched to GOP when LBJ signed that thing.


I’ve been hearing that for years which makes it even more impressive how the Democrats still manage to keep them on the plantation with a high degree of effectiveness.
tailgater Offline
#148 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Ok, well thats a dumb take... they're using busses because those are the vehicles they have and that are insured through the school district at the moment... to believe those busses can't be exchanged eventually for more economical vehicles, well, i already used the word for that kind of thinking...

and it's keeping people working...

and it's addressing one of the biggest concerns of no in-person schooling - children not getting fed...

So yes, innovative...

Geritol... it can't hurt you....


So here's what governments do.

1. They force the shut down of schools.
2. They keep paying their employees.
3. Even the bus drivers get paid.

Only in government can a non-essential job be secure as if it were.

It's not a dumb take to point out the flaws.
It's obvious, sure.
But even when obvious, government at every level will continue to waste money with inefficiency. And they'll call it a plan. And it feels good. And people will cheer. And meanwhile, without people ACTUALLY working, because you know, they've got kids to watch over, there is less tax revenue.
To pay that bus driver even a penny more than Uber Eats.
rfenst Offline
#149 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
Florida Teachers Sue To Block School Coronavirus Reopening Mandate

in Florida are suing the state to block an emergency order requiring schools to open next month with in-person instruction. They say, with the surge of coronavirus cases, the order violates a provision in the Florida Constitution requiring the state to ensure schools are operTeachers ated safely.


The emergency order, issued this month by Florida Education Commissioner Richard Corcoran, says all school districts "must open brick and mortar schools at least five days a week for all students." The order says the final decision on whether to reopen schools rests with local superintendents and school boards. But it suggests funding may depend on it. The districts that submit reopening plans approved by the state will receive full funding.

In a lawsuit filed in Miami, the Florida Education Association, joined by teachers and parents, says the Department of Education order defies recommendations from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on reopening schools safely. Besides Corcoran, the lawsuit also names the Florida Board of Education, Gov. Ron DeSantis and Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Gimenez as defendants.

The teachers union says the Florida Constitution requires state officials, "who are charged with overseeing the funding and operations of public education, ensure that our schools operate safely." Requiring schools to reopen campuses now, the union says, "without the proper plan, resources, and safety precautions will inevitably exacerbate the spread of the virus, jeopardize public health, and ultimately cause longer closures."


Asked about the lawsuit Monday, DeSantis distanced himself from the emergency order, which has drawn backlash from parents, teachers and school districts since it was issued. "I didn't give any executive order," he said. "That was the Department of Education." The commissioner and six other members of Florida's Board of Education are all appointed by the governor.

DeSantis has defended the mandate to reopen schools but said it's intended as a recommendation, not a requirement.

In a statement, Corcoran, the education commissioner, called the lawsuit "frivolous" and "reckless," saying he believes the teachers union "hasn't read nor understands" the emergency order.

The order, he said, reiterates a Florida statute that requires schools to operate 180 days a year, which equates to five days a week for 36 weeks. The order, Corcoran said, added online options for "families to have the choice to decide what works best for the health and safety of their student and family."
HockeyDad Offline
#150 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,070
They are operating safely if they are all wearing masks. I’m not sure why the outrage.
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