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US Suffers Worse Economic Decline Ever
delta1 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
the US economy dropped by 32.9% in the 2nd Quarter of 2020....

worse than the Great Recession...worse than the Great Depression...worst Q ever

some economists say we haven't hit bottom yet...others say it'll take years to recover...


Trump claimed credit when the economy was sailing...then the pandemic...does he deserve some blame for this?
ZRX1200 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
Are you ******* kidding me?
clintCigar Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
I blame the POS CCP. They gonna keep poking at other countries while this is goin on and end up getting fuckked up.
Speyside Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
No, perhaps a unified national plan would have made some difference. In the overall picture no. The EU basically had a unified plan which worked for a bit. Their numbers are now going up. Don't say this isn't political and then try to make it political. It isn't political, both sides should be ashamed of politicizing it.
deadeyedick Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,072
delta1 wrote:
the US economy dropped by 32.9% in the 2nd Quarter of 2020....

worse than the Great Recession...worse than the Great Depression...worst Q ever

some economists say we haven't hit bottom yet...others say it'll take years to recover...


Trump claimed credit when the economy was sailing...then the pandemic...does he deserve some blame for this?


Only if he was the bat eater.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,649
clintCigar wrote:
I blame the POS CCP. They gonna keep poking at other countries while this is goin on and end up getting fuckked up.

You seem to be veering headlong into dissension there, Commie #1
delta1 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
here's an article that compares how the US is doing compared to other wealthy nations, while also showing the different responses to the pandemic that the Trump administration took compared to other nations...

https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-covid-19-crisis-how-do-u-s-economic-and-health-outcomes-compare-to-other-oecd-countries/
clintCigar Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
Sunoverbeach wrote:
You seem to be veering headlong into dissension there, Commie #1

LOL
I keep seeing reports about the CCP fuckkin with so many other countries trying to claim land. It's almost as if they are trying to take advantage of the situation.
tonygraz Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,230
I thought twitler said the economy would be roaring back - perhaps he was thinking of the pandemic instead.
Speyside Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Delta, we are in much worse shape today than the EU. I am not sure about 6 months from now. Take Gemany, supposedly they have done everything right, but their numbers are going up.
fiddler898 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
delta1 wrote:
the US economy dropped by 32.9% in the 2nd Quarter of 2020....

worse than the Great Recession...worse than the Great Depression...worst Q ever

some economists say we haven't hit bottom yet...others say it'll take years to recover...


Trump claimed credit when the economy was sailing...then the pandemic...does he deserve some blame for this?


He is only as deserving of the blame as he is of the credit. 😎
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
then cancel the election and give him a fair chance.
deadeyedick Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,072
fiddler898 wrote:
He is only as deserving of the blame as he is of the credit. 😎


Not worthy of a comment.
tonygraz Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,230
I expect things to get even worse before they get better. It's going to take a while for all the restaurant workers and travel workers to get back to work. Of course the toilet paper sector is doing very well which could have been expected by the white house demand. What ever happened to the republicans who were worried about the rising national debt ?
rfenst Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
tonygraz wrote:
I expect things to get even worse before they get better. It's going to take a while for all the restaurant workers and travel workers to get back to work. Of course the toilet paper sector is doing very well which could have been expected by the white house demand. What ever happened to the republicans who were worried about the rising national debt ?

There was an economic commentary I read yesterday or this morning (I think it was from WSJ). It said not to count on the economy recovering until the 3d or 4th quarter of 2021.

fiddler898 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
deadeyedick wrote:
Not worthy of a comment.

...and yet you did. 😎
RayR Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
delta1 wrote:
the US economy dropped by 32.9% in the 2nd Quarter of 2020....

worse than the Great Recession...worse than the Great Depression...worst Q ever

some economists say we haven't hit bottom yet...others say it'll take years to recover...


Trump claimed credit when the economy was sailing...then the pandemic...does he deserve some blame for this?


This Trump fellow is a conundrum. It's the tale of two Trumps. The Trump that campaigned for President in 2015/2016 railed against the Bush/Obama regimes with their "big fat bubble economies", their deficit spending, their massive accumulation of sovereign debt (He even promised to reduce the sovereign debt) and fake stock market rallies fuelled by Federal Reserve counterfeit loot and artificially low interest rates.
The you have the other Trump, as President, who has been all for fake stock market rallies fuelled by Federal Reserve counterfeit loot and artificially low interest rates. He even chastised the Federal Reserve chairman for not lowering interest rates enough! He was quite happy with his big fat bubble economy, crowing about the greatest economy ever under his watch, but then you had the ill conceived government responses to the Corona virus that pricked the big fat bubble economy. And as far as deficit spending and massive accumulation of sovereign debt, well he's outdone the last to clowns.
I think instead of draining the swamp, the swamp has assimilated him. I truly wish it was not the case but that's the way it has been.
Mr. Jones Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,419
This entire pandemic is going to last 18-24 months
@ the very L.E.A.S.T....( FROM JAN. 2020 TO JAN. 2022)

THEN COVID19 WILL MUTATE MAKING BILLIONS IN VACCINES TOTALLY WORTHLESS...

THEN 18-24 MORE MONTHS WITH A MUTATED COVID19...

THEN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN WORTHLESS MUTATED VACCINE CUZ NOW ITLL BE A MUTATED SWINE FLU... CURRENTLY DETECTED NOW IN CHINESE FARMERS AND PIGS...
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
RayR wrote:
This Trump fellow is a conundrum. It's the tale of two Trumps. The Trump that campaigned for President in 2015/2016 railed against the Bush/Obama regimes with their "big fat bubble economies", their deficit spending, their massive accumulation of sovereign debt (He even promised to reduce the sovereign debt) and fake stock market rallies fuelled by Federal Reserve counterfeit loot and artificially low interest rates.
The you have the other Trump, as President, who has been all for fake stock market rallies fuelled by Federal Reserve counterfeit loot and artificially low interest rates. He even chastised the Federal Reserve chairman for not lowering interest rates enough! He was quite happy with his big fat bubble economy, crowing about the greatest economy ever under his watch, but then you had the ill conceived government responses to the Corona virus that pricked the big fat bubble economy. And as far as deficit spending and massive accumulation of sovereign debt, well he's outdone the last to clowns.
I think instead of draining the swamp, the swamp has assimilated him. I truly wish it was not the case but that's the way it has been.

chastised is a nicer word than what he did.

I've been known to say he strained the swamp...and kept the big pieces.

hit enter once in a while so my old eyes can blink without fear of losing my place.
RayR Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
frankj1 wrote:
chastised is a nicer word than what he did.

I've been known to say he strained the swamp...and kept the big pieces.

hit enter once in a while so my old eyes can blink without fear of losing my place.


"he strained the swamp...and kept the big pieces" Yes I like that one.Applause
delta1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
frank the Tripod is gud wif wirds...
rfenst Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
What does GDP plummet mean for workers?

The first estimate of second-quarter GDP was a doozy. Just how bad was the pandemic’s impact from April through June? The Bureau of Economic Analysis said that the U.S. economy contracted at a 32.9% annualized pace. (GDP is reported as a seasonally adjusted annual rate, which means that a 33% Q2 decline is approximately a 9.5% decline from the seasonally adjusted Q1 reading, which came in at -5%.) The first half of 2020 makes the 10-year “slow and low” recovery period from 2010 through 2019 seem positively idyllic. Gone are the days when we can complain that the economy was “only growing” by 2.2% to 2.5%.

With the economy coming to a sudden stop, it should be no surprise that the numbers were ugly. “The decline in consumer spending is driving the downturn,” said Daniel Bachman of consultancy Deloitte. “Just two key categories of consumer spending — food services and accommodations and recreation services — together account for 8% of GDP. And that doesn’t account for the decline in business spending in those areas.”

The current climate also has accelerated the pace of retail bankruptcies.

Ascena Retail Group, the owner of Ann Taylor, LOFT, Lane Bryant and others, now joins Neiman Marcus, JC Penney, Brooks Brothers, J.Crew, Pier 1, Modell’s and Lucky Brands in the bankruptcy club, with new members likely to arrive throughout the year. This year could see more bankruptcies than 2010’s 48, according to S&P Global Market Intelligence.

Perhaps the good news about the rotten GDP reading is that it reflects the past. As more states eased restrictions, spending increased in May and June. But the very openings that helped boost economic activity also allowed COVID-19 to spread throughout the South and West, prompting the re-imposition of masking, social distancing and other restrictions, which has meant a slowdown in activity in July.

The Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey showed the number of employed Americans declined by about 6.7 million from mid-June through mid-July. While the survey is new and may not fully capture the whole picture, some of the other findings are notable (all categories represent percentage of adults):

Households where someone had a loss in employment income since March 13: 50.1%.
Expect someone in household to have a loss in employment income in the next four weeks: 35.1%.
Either sometimes or often not enough to eat in the last seven days: 10.8%.
Missed last month’s rent or mortgage payment, or have slight/no confidence that they can pay next month on time: 26.4%

Analysts from Capital Economics note that strength in the second half of the year relies squarely on “how the virus plays out and health policy responses to it” and, of course, the next phase of stimulus will play an important humanitarian and economic role.

Kathy Jones, senior vice president and chief fixed income strategist for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, underscores that the new stimulus money will provide “a further boost to the economy,” which “should help support consumption and employment, lifting expectations for a stronger recovery.” However, without adequate government support, the recovery could be slower and more painful. To be clear: There will be growth in the second half of 2020, but few economists believe that it will be strong enough to bring GDP to pre-pandemic levels.

Deloitte sees several quarters of “subdued” growth, and the forecast they provide about the next five years is sobering: “Are we really going to end up where we started? ... The answer is probably no.”

Conversely, Capital Economics thinks “some of the pessimism about the longer-term economic impact of the virus may be overdone. ... For all these reasons, good public health policy is good economic policy.”



Jill Schlesinger, CFP, is a CBS News business analyst. A former options trader and CIO of an investment advisory firm, she welcomes comments and questions at [email protected]. Check her website at www.jillonmoney.com.
ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
All this downturn only to hit the Obama high water mark.

Impressive.
deadeyedick Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,072
Yet in all this blackness on the US economy if you are invested in the markets and did not panic you are prolly doing pretty good. Last time I looked the DOW was only down about 4%, the broader NASDAC was up something like 15% and the S&P 500 was about even for the year. Not too shabby for a worldwide pandemic.
delta1 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
true...the 1% have done great, and always will ... those who have money invested in the stock market aren't hurting either...

but many here didn't give Obama any credit for the stock market gains as a measure of economic health during his tenure...why use that as a measuring stick now?

even so... only 52% of all Americans have money invested in the stock market ...down from a pre-recession high of about 65% ... the majority of them with less than $54K invested

wonder how many of the 10.5% unemployed Americans have much invested in the stock market?

rich getting richer...poor keep falling behind...


the article above, quoted by rfenst, suggests we can recover from the precipitous drop, IF the govt continues to provide pandemic stimulus...seems the GOP is not willing to do that except for big business...

the recovery to pre-pandemic economic levels is expected to take years, not quarters
deadeyedick Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,072
delta1 wrote:
true...the 1% have done great, and always will ... those who have money invested in the stock market aren't hurting either...

but many here didn't give Obama any credit for the stock market gains as a measure of economic health during his tenure...why use that as a measuring stick now?

even so... only 52% of all Americans have money invested in the stock market ...down from a pre-recession high of about 65% ... the majority of them with less than $54K invested

wonder how many of the 10.5% unemployed Americans have much invested in the stock market?

rich getting richer...poor keep falling behind...


the article above, quoted by rfenst, suggests we can recover from the precipitous drop, IF the govt continues to provide pandemic stimulus...seems the GOP is not willing to do that except for big business...

the recovery to pre-pandemic economic levels is expected to take years, not quarters


Who said anything about using the facts of the market as a measuring stick? And I for one give Obama little credit because his policies were not pro-growth. His years were marked by stagnate wage growth. As usual your arguments are one-sided.

I'm not privy to the current negotiations but have not heard anything released that says the GOP is only willing to help big business. You cash your stimulus check yet?
HockeyDad Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
delta1 wrote:
true...the 1% have done great, and always will ... those who have money invested in the stock market aren't hurting either...

but many here didn't give Obama any credit for the stock market gains as a measure of economic health during his tenure...why use that as a measuring stick now?

even so... only 52% of all Americans have money invested in the stock market ...down from a pre-recession high of about 65% ... the majority of them with less than $54K invested

wonder how many of the 10.5% unemployed Americans have much invested in the stock market?

rich getting richer...poor keep falling behind...


This is the kind of “reach across the aisle and work together” things that the Republicans and Democrats do so well and I applaud them.
ZRX1200 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
Al the market only grew under Barry when the Fed was buying stock...

What was UE and GDP numbers?

Funny how numbers go from real to fake.
deadeyedick Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,072
ZRX1200 wrote:
Al the market only grew under Barry when the Fed was buying stock...

What was UE and GDP numbers?

Funny how numbers go from real to fake.


Actually the numbers were worse for GDP and other measures in EU than in the US. Which brings us back to the fact that, economically, the US is just part of a world-wide pandemic not caused by this administration or any other.
ZRX1200 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
UE. Un-Employment
delta1 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
ZRX1200 wrote:
Al the market only grew under Barry when the Fed was buying stock...

What was UE and GDP numbers?

Funny how numbers go from real to fake.


granted: unemployment numbers have been very good for Trump, hitting some historic lows, until the pandemic hit...but the numbers were following the downward trend-line carried over from the previous administration ...

the GDP number for Trump was an average of 2.6% (he promised 4% or more) compared to 2.4% for Obama's last 4 years...

(see graphs for comparisons)https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-didnt-transform-the-economy-its-mostly-the-same-as-it-was-under-obama-2019-11-12





deadeyedick wrote:
Actually the numbers were worse for GDP and other measures in EU than in the US. Which brings us back to the fact that, economically, the US is just part of a world-wide pandemic not caused by this administration or any other.



OK, give Trump a pass, but when he took office he was given a well-running economy....

unlike the one palmed off on Obama...
ZRX1200 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
How much money SHOULD have gone out?

Zero.
delta1 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
#32 ^ apologies, Z...I edited out that comment about pandemic rescue fund distribution favoring wealthy business owners and big corporations...
delta1 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
I'm almost tempted to support Trump's re-election and vote for him, just to see if he can pull the country's economy out of the ditch... I'm just afraid that I won't like his choices

libs point out that the GOP drives the US economy into a ditch and the Dems have to rescue it, which has been true for 30-40 years.....despite the corroborating numbers, cons have argued that's BS...

honestly, I'm positive that Biden will restore much of what Trump broke...
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
I miss 2016
izonfire Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
frankj1 wrote:
I miss 2016

The audacity of hopeless...
frankj1 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
haven't heard this one in a while...


are you better off now than 4 years ago?

as for me, no.
izonfire Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
frankj1 wrote:
haven't heard this one in a while...


are you better off now than 4 years ago?

as for me, no.

What’s gonna be the answer 4 years from now?
No. And No...
HockeyDad Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
frankj1 wrote:
haven't heard this one in a while...


are you better off now than 4 years ago?

as for me, no.



Far better off. Not even close. You people need a Cone of Protection so you don’t have to sweat presidential elections which really have minimal effects on your life at best.

People flipped out when Bush won. People flipped out when Obama won. People flipped out when Trump won. Nothing really changed other than you setting your hair on fire. Relax! It will be fine. Trust us.
Gene363 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,799
HockeyDad wrote:
Far better off. Not even close. You people need a Cone of Protection so you don’t have to sweat presidential elections which really have minimal effects on your life at best.

People flipped out when Bush won. People flipped out when Obama won. People flipped out when Trump won. Nothing really changed other than you setting your hair on fire. Relax! It will be fine. Trust us.


You know talking logic and common sense doesn't follow the political narrative.
victor809 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:
You know talking logic and common sense doesn't follow the political narrative.


You realize referring to HD's "Cone of Protection" as logic an common sense is not logic, or common sense, right?
Gene363 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,799
victor809 wrote:
You realize referring to HD's "Cone of Protection" as logic an common sense is not logic, or common sense, right?


Obviously you don't understand the cone of protection.
rfenst Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
Top Fed official says quick reopenings damaged recovery from coronavirus

A top Federal Reserve official said Wednesday that the inability of the U.S. to control the coronavirus pandemic limited the benefit of trillions in fiscal stimulus approved by President Trump and Congress earlier this year.

Eric Rosengren, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, said in a Wednesday interview with The Hill that the abrupt peel-back of restrictions imposed to slow the pandemic in the U.S. prevented record-breaking economic rescue efforts from fostering a quick recovery.

“Normally with the kind of stimulus that we've seen with both fiscal policy and monetary policy, you'd actually expect a V-shaped recovery,” Rosengren said, referring to an immediate economic recovery from a downturn of similar speed and scale.


“The reason we're not seeing a V-shaped recovery and that we're seeing a pause right now is that it's very hard for fiscal or monetary policy to offset a public health concern," he continued.

Rosengren is the latest in a series of top Fed officials — including Fed Chairman Jerome Powell — to stress the importance of vigorous coronavirus control measures to a full recovery from the pandemic-driven recession.

The onset of the pandemic prompted the quickest and deepest economic collapse in U.S. history. While the unemployment rate has since fallen from a post-Great Depression high of 14.7 percent in April to 10.2 percent in July, the second wave of coronavirus cases drastically slowed the pace of the recovery that began in May.

In a Wednesday morning speech, Rosengren said the swift loosening of pandemic-related restrictions across much of the U.S. in May and June undermined the success of earlier lockdowns and trillions in fiscal and monetary relief. He argued that while quick reopenings helped fuel a surge in consumer activity, the lack of precautions taken after helped spread the virus widely and delayed a full rebound from the first wave of the pandemic.

“By looking at Europe and China, and many parts of Asia that have the virus under better control, you're seeing their economies are able to come back,” Rosengren told The Hill.


“If we continue to proceed in a way where we don't get the pandemic under control, it's going to be a long time before you're going to feel comfortable going to a restaurant or a movie," he said.

Rosengren’s comments come as the White House and congressional leaders attempt to revive failed negotiations over another round of stimulus and economic relief. Republicans and Democrats failed to strike a deal before the expirations of enhanced unemployment benefits, federal protections against eviction and foreclosure and the application deadline for forgivable loans to small businesses.

While President Trump signed several executive orders over the weekend to mitigate the economic damage, experts say they may not be legal nor effective. Republicans have also bristled at spending more money to bolster the economy after Congress had already approved more than $3 trillion in previous bills. The Fed has also purchased trillions of dollars in Treasury bonds and other financial assets to keep credit flowing through the economy.

Economists across the ideological spectrum have urged Congress to spend trillions more to bolster unemployment benefits, prevent cutbacks in local government services and keep families from falling into crushing debt and homelessness. The Fed is also facing pressure from lawmakers and experts to broaden the eligibility requirements for several of its emergency lending facilities as small businesses and local governments fail to see the same benefits as the stock market and financial sector.

Rosengren said Congress should extend support for unemployment insurance and local governments and aid for small businesses. But he warned that those measures would be ineffective without progress containing the pandemic.

“We've already provided the stimulus that I think would be generating a good outcome for the economy if we had gotten the pandemic under control,” Rosengren said.

“It's much more cost-effective to get people to wear masks and social distance than it is to shut down the economy and get large transfer payments to people,” he added. “So if you're worried about the fiscal deficit, you should be even more worried that the pandemic is not controlled.”

The Hill
delta1 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
in a nutshell, that last sentence says it all about the US pandemic response...we are ignoring the obvious and going with false hope...

we refuse to model our behavior on successful responses...instead, our leader clings to the con myth that Sweden's refusal to lock down was a success...so expect and accept more infected and dead people...

as HD says, don't worry...we're all gonna die...
frankj1 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
I thought Country Joe said that
RMAN4443 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
frankj1 wrote:
I thought Country Joe said that

Country Joe said "Whoopie, we're all Gonna Die"...fog
delta1 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
pretty sure it was a Fish
DrMaddVibe Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
delta1 wrote:
I'm almost tempted to support Trump's re-election and vote for him, just to see if he can pull the country's economy out of the ditch.



He helped usher in a wave that did it once.

Wall Street AND Main Street were surging while Democrats offered little to no help passing useful legislation. They were still stung that he won against Clinton. Despite the Left's best efforts to sabotage America with "Russia, Russia, Russia", "Stormy, Stormy, Stormy", all of the make-believe hearings of crap the Democrats could muster up, and an entire impeachment debacle...The economy was like a well oiled machine chugging along while Trump cheer-leaded and met with CEO's. It took a biological weaponized virus that China released on the planet to tear it down! Even now it's starting to beat a pulse again! All because they were too lazy to admit or ask for help back last August to tear down not just ours but every economy on the globe!

"However, Trump's pro-growth agenda did spark an incredible jump in economic and business optimism, and he did take aggressive steps to deregulate the economy. The idea that this sharp change in direction had no impact on the business climate is foolish."

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/trump-just-did-something-obama-never-could-deliver-on-promised-gdp-growth/


No, Biden had his 8 years and is the only administration to NEVER move the needle past 3% GDP. Remember it was Biden that Obama put in charge of the last recession. It limped. We were told that this lowered expectation was the new norm and to think we'd ever be able to maintain prosperity again was foolish and that it would involve magic wands. Don't even bemoan the fact because the link above shoots it down faster than you can think anything else.

At the end of the day you and everyone else suffering from acute TDS are going to have to take into account whether you want higher taxes, less take home pay and a stagnant economy or let the current administration have a 2nd crack at fixing all of your mistakes. Go into the booth without your feelings. Leave your Twitter machine at home.
HockeyDad Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
victor809 wrote:
You realize referring to HD's "Cone of Protection" as logic an common sense is not logic, or common sense, right?


Is so.
delta1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
DMV...Trump came into office with a GOP majority in BOTH the House and the Senate, and they had two years to do what ever they wanted...the Dems were powerless then...golden opportunity to legislate and alter America in a conservative way...what happened?...tax cuts for the wealthy and for corporations...any other legislative fixes to make America great?

wall? nope

Muslim ban? nope

OK, you got two Supreme Court Justices, but those were gimmees...

and environmental de-regulation to unleash businesses...wonder how that's gonna end?


the Dems then won a majority in the House, effective at the beginning of 2019, and every legislative initiative by the Dems has been stonewalled by McConnell and the GOP Senate...
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