America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 3 years ago by ZRX1200. 55 replies replies.
2 Pages12>
Georgia Prosecutors Open Criminal Inquiry Into Trump’s Efforts to Subvert Election
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,261
WSJ
ATLANTA — Prosecutors in Georgia have started a criminal investigation into former President Donald J. Trump’s attempts to overturn Georgia’s election results, including a phone call he made to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in which Mr. Trump pressured him to “find” enough votes to help him reverse his loss.

On Wednesday, Fani T. Willis, the recently elected Democratic prosecutor in Fulton County, sent a letter to numerous officials in state government, including Mr. Raffensperger, requesting that they preserve documents related to “an investigation into attempts to influence” the state’s 2020 presidential election.
While the letter does not mention Mr. Trump by name, it is related to his efforts to change the outcome of Georgia’s election, according to a state official with knowledge of the matter. A copy of the letter was obtained by The New York Times.

Of particular note in Ms. Willis’s letter was the wider scope of the investigation. Potential violations of state law include “the solicitation of election fraud, the making of false statements to state and local governmental bodies, conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath of office and any involvement in violence or threats related to the election’s administration,” the letter states.

The state official said that, in addition to the call to Mr. Raffensperger, Ms. Willis’s inquiry would encompass Mr. Trump’s outreach to other Georgia officials in an attempt to reverse his loss. These include a call to a top elections investigator in which Mr. Trump asked the official to “find the fraud”; a call in which Mr. Trump urged Gov. Brian Kemp to call a special session of the legislature to review the election results; and a conversation with the attorney general of Georgia, Chris Carr, in which Mr. Trump warned him not to interfere in a Texas lawsuit seeking to overturn the results in Georgia and other states.

The investigation will also look into the events surrounding the abrupt resignation in January of Atlanta’s federal prosecutor, Byung J. Pak, after Mr. Trump complained to Justice Department officials that Mr. Pak was not pursuing his claims of election fraud, the official said.

In the letter, Ms. Willis said that her office would request subpoenas “as necessary” when the next Fulton County grand jury convenes in March. In addition to Mr. Raffensperger, the letter was sent to Mr. Kemp, Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan and Mr. Carr, all of whom are Republicans.

“At this stage, we have no reason to believe that any Georgia official is a target of this investigation,” Ms. Willis wrote.

The investigation goes beyond Mr. Trump himself, and could touch on the conduct of his aides and allies. A spokesman for the district attorney’s office said that Mr. Duncan, the lieutenant governor, received one of the letters because he presides over the State Senate. In December, Rudolph W. Giuliani, one of Mr. Trump’s lawyers, appeared before the Senate and advanced false claims that the election was stolen.

The inquiry comes as Mr. Trump faces a second impeachment trial in Washington this week, for his role in stirring up the mob that attacked the Capitol on Jan 6. The violence that day followed weeks of false claims by the former president that election fraud deprived him of victory, including in Georgia, where he lost by about 12,000 votes. Mr. Trump’s hourlong call to Mr. Raffensperger on Jan. 2 is cited by the House in its article of impeachment.

Jason Miller, a senior adviser to Mr. Trump, said in a statement on Wednesday that “the timing here is not accidental given today’s impeachment trial. This is simply the Democrats’ latest attempt to score political points by continuing their witch hunt against President Trump, and everybody sees through it.”

The inquiry makes Georgia the second state after New York where Mr. Trump faces a criminal investigation. And it comes in a jurisdiction where potential jurors are unlikely to be hospitable to the former president; Fulton County, the state’s most populous county, encompasses most of Atlanta and overwhelmingly supported Joseph R. Biden Jr. in the November election.

Ms. Willis has been weighing for several weeks whether to open an inquiry, after Mr. Trump’s Jan. 2 phone call to Mr. Raffensperger alarmed election experts who called it an extraordinary intervention into a state’s electoral process. For two months after Mr. Biden was declared the winner, Mr. Trump relentlessly attacked state officials in Georgia, including Mr. Raffensperger and Mr. Kemp, claiming they were not doing enough to uncover instances of voting fraud that might change the outcome.

Former prosecutors had previously said Mr. Trump’s calls might run afoul of at least three state laws. One is criminal solicitation to commit election fraud, which can be either a felony or a misdemeanor; as a felony, it is punishable by at least a year in prison. There is also a related conspiracy charge, which can be prosecuted either as a misdemeanor or a felony. A third law, a misdemeanor offense, bars “intentional interference” with another person’s “performance of election duties.”

It is unclear what actions might have violated state racketeering law. Clark D. Cunningham, a law professor at Georgia State University, said that Georgia, like many other states, has a statute similar to the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO. Like the federal statute, the state law is meant to target organized criminal enterprises and prohibit patterns of crimes that seek to further those enterprises’ illegal aim.

Mr. Cunningham said this could include trying to change the election results in Georgia. He also noted that the Georgia statute specifically covers false statements and writings made to state officials.

In one of her best-known cases as an assistant district attorney, Ms. Willis in 2014 accused a number of Atlanta public school teachers and administrators of violating the state RICO statute when they took part in a standardized test cheating scandal.

In the Wednesday letter, Ms. Willis also argues that her office was the one agency in Georgia with jurisdiction that was not hobbled by a conflict of interest, because it was not a “witness to the conduct’’ that is being investigated. She notes that unnamed “subjects of the investigation” had made contact with the secretary of state, the attorney general and the
The letter did not go into detail about the contact that was made. But Mr. Trump’s acting deputy attorney general, Richard Donoghue, relayed to Mr. Pak, the former U.S. attorney for the Atlanta area, that Mr. Trump was dissatisfied with his efforts to investigate the president’s claims of election fraud. Mr. Donoghue did so in a phone call shortly before Jan. 4, the day Mr. Pak resigned.

Ms. Willis’s office also suggested that the inquiry would look at the actions of others who might have sought to undermine the election results. Jeff DiSantis, a spokesman for Ms. Willis, noted Mr. Duncan’s role in presiding over the State Senate, saying that the Senate “may have evidence of efforts to interfere with the proper administration of the election.”
Anyone who participated in those efforts, he said, “is potentially a subject of this investigation, and that would include a variety of people.”

During appearances before state legislative committees on Dec. 3 and Dec. 10, Mr. Giuliani — who spent weeks peddling Mr. Trump’s conspiracy theories about election fraud — aired a series of false and sometimes outlandish claims that angered state election officials and Mr. Kemp. In a recent interview, Gabriel Sterling, a top aide to Mr. Raffensperger, said that he was in a legislative hearing room on a different floor during one of Mr. Giuliani’s appearances, trying to set the record straight.

“I literally was refuting everything one story down,” he said.

The Georgia investigation comes as Mr. Trump is also facing an on going criminal fraud inquiry into his finances by the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., and a civil fraud inquiry by the New York attorney general, Letitia James. Separately, the attorney general in the District of Columbia, Karl Racine, has said Mr. Trump could face a misdemeanor charge there for his role in inciting the mob violence at the Capitol; his office said Wednesday that it was still examining potential charges for inciting the rioting on Jan. 6.

The Georgia inquiry will be a test for Fulton’s new district attorney, who took office last month.
“Just because they start an investigation doesn’t mean that D.A. Willis is going to take it to a grand jury,” said Joshua Morrison, a former senior assistant district attorney in Fulton County who once worked closely with Ms. Willis. He expected a lengthy inquiry, given the stakes. “Look at the impeachment trial,” he added. “With this, he’s facing prison time. They’re going to throw everything they have at the wall.”

If Mr. Trump were to be convicted of a state crime in New York or Georgia, a federal pardon would not be applicable. In Georgia, Mr. Trump cannot look to Mr. Kemp for a state pardon, and not just because the two have a fractured relationship. In Georgia, pardons are granted only by the state board of pardons and paroles.
delta1 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
Trump will have a large D after his name very often, now that he's no longer POTUS...

D = Defendant
Mr. Jones Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
Trump will be broke by 2023/24 or sooner...

From broken contracts, no PGA tournament money, NO NYC INCOME FROM his properties with broken leases from businesses leaving NYC, MARALAGO GOING BROKE from everyone dropping their memberships, lawsuits from around 3,000 different ENTITIES... And a massive recession or the depression that is coming soon...in APRIL 2021...

He will have to move in with Jared and Ivanka to billionaire island in Florida... after Melania and Baron THE SEVEN FOOT GIANT BOYEE WHO GREW 3.5 FEET IN 4 YEARS...move back to Trump towers or the Ukraine...
rfenst Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,261
delta1 wrote:
Trump will have a large D after his name very often, now that he's no longer POTUS...

D = Defendant

He's got a chit ton of business, tax and criminal problems at his door.
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He’s a scum bag. Always has been. Michael Cohen wasn’t just a random acquaintance. He’s a symptom of Trumps larger world. He always been a con man. This time he just duped more people.
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
and he conned a ton here!
They're digging the interwebs for anything that can be used to build specious explanations that everyone BUT Trump was involved in a sick attack on the Capitol intended to overturn a valid election that ended in several deaths.

Let me say that again...ended in several deaths.

Next chapter: The Donald J. Trumptown Massacre.
See ya there...it's gonna be wild!
rfenst Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,261
His interesting, compounded, legal problem, is that the types of tax fraud crap he's accused of automatically "open the door" to expensive to defend civil lawsuits and problematic federal and/or state criminal charges.

Other charges in Georgia could also be very expensive to defend. And, some of his is usual sources of credit have recently avowed not to do business with him anymore.

On another legal front, Trump and Mara Lago are just about to be be sued by neighborhood home owners who allege that their home values will decline as a result of Trump living there and all the police expense, extra traffic, roads blocked off and sightseers. This could drag on for years.

Purportedly, there is an old agreement prohibiting Trump (or any one else) from living there. One side sez the prohibition is in writing. The other says it's not. I am going to bet it's not- or we already would have seen it.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,398
Thought this was for impeachment?

The rest of it...he has to settle through the courts as he doesn't have the protections nor the excuses now that he's not President.

I'm so glad the Left has shown the nation how to operate.

Can we investigate the Clinton Foundation and the other holding companies they operate? Isn't funny the media doesn't investigate that? Say, the current President has almost the same get up going but is letting his son and brother run it for him.
RayR Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
It's just another ring in the circus to entertain the feckless proles and take attention away from the Biden Crime Family too.
frankj1 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
rfenst wrote:
His interesting, compounded, legal problem, is that the types of tax fraud crap he's accused of automatically "open the door" to expensive to defend civil lawsuits and problematic federal and/or state criminal charges.

Other charges in Georgia could also be very expensive to defend. And, some of his is usual sources of credit have recently avowed not to do business with him anymore.

On another legal front, Trump and Mara Lago are just about to be be sued by neighborhood home owners who allege that their home values will decline as a result of Trump living there and all the police expense, extra traffic, roads blocked off and sightseers. This could drag on for years.

Purportedly, there is an old agreement prohibiting Trump (or any one else) from living there. One side sez the prohibition is in writing. The other says it's not. I am going to bet it's not- or we already would have seen it.

read somewhere he may be legally entitled to live there if he is an employee...but many are said to be allowing their memberships to expire if he does.


His life may mimic OJ's...Senate votes no but a zillion dollars of civil suits from the families of those killed during the insurrection and those from law enforcement with significant injuries from the same.
BuckyB93 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,167
frankj1 wrote:
and he conned a ton here!
They're digging the interwebs for anything that can be used to build specious explanations that everyone BUT Trump was involved in a sick attack on the Capitol intended to overturn a valid election that ended in several deaths.

Let me say that again...ended in several deaths.

Next chapter: The Donald J. Trumptown Massacre.
See ya there...it's gonna be wild!


You're really beating this drum quite hard. The whole Trump led a rebel rousing attack on the Constitution that led to the near destruction of the US democratic system. Really?

All the death and destruction of the so called riot pales in comparison to the peaceful rallies of the BLM and defund stuff that was popular across the entire nation for most of last year.
RayR Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
BuckyB93 wrote:
You're really beating this drum quite hard. The whole Trump led a rebel rousing attack on the Constitution that led to the near destruction of the US democratic system. Really?

All the death and destruction of the so called riot pales in comparison to the peaceful rallies of the BLM and defund stuff that was popular across the entire nation for most of last year.


Frank is fully invested in the current MSM narrative and talking points, which necessarily requires all uncomfortable thoughts of the past be flushed down the memory hole.🚽
delta1 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
sometimes the MSM presents events that actually happen in the real world, that have actual real world consequences...like when Clinton was POTUS and was impeached...cons didn't think that was a made up deal and didn't denounce the MSM for covering the story in all its "glory".

it's odd that peeps now just want their media sources to present "news" they want to hear...even with so many fact checkers and other sources available to determine the accuracy of news reporting...

Trump's allegation/charade that the MSM is the "enemy of the people" has effectively covered the eyes of those willing to follow him, despite mountains of evidence the man consistently lied
rfenst Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,261
frankj1 wrote:
read somewhere he may be legally entitled to live there if he is an employee...but many are said to be allowing their memberships to expire if he does.


His life may mimic OJ's...Senate votes no but a zillion dollars of civil suits from the families of those killed during the insurrection and those from law enforcement with significant injuries from the same.

OJ came to Florida because our bankruptcy laws can be weaponized. Civil judgements can not be enforced against his pension, retirement accounts annuities and the like. He also can exclude his home (presumably worth millions) from creditors. Sweeeeet!!!, if planned and executed properly. People move here just for that, file bankruptcy under Florida law and then move back after relatively all their debt is wiped out without loosing their home's equity. Or, they just plan to stay...
frankj1 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
BuckyB93 wrote:
You're really beating this drum quite hard. The whole Trump led a rebel rousing attack on the Constitution that led to the near destruction of the US democratic system. Really?


not only did I not say anything remotely close to this, but it's not remotely close to what I think happened.

An attack on a valid election does equate to an attack on a fundamental principle of democracy, but does not destroy democracy!

I'll not get into comparing what happened in an attempt to attack Democracy with the illegal destruction of property and looting in the aftermath of protests, nor does that validate the latter.
fiddler898 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
RayR wrote:
Frank is fully invested in the current MSM narrative and talking points, which necessarily requires all uncomfortable thoughts of the past be flushed down the memory hole.🚽


I think we can safely measure Frank's level of reason and understanding in inverse proportion to your own.

Consistently, and reliably.
RayR Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
fiddler898 wrote:
I think we can safely measure Frank's level of reason and understanding in inverse proportion to your own.

Consistently, and reliably.


Oh Golly! Frank has got himself an attack parrot!🦜
Speyside Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
WGAF what either side is trying to do? Our efforts have entirely moved to helping Americans who are hurting and afraid. Let him hole up in Mara Lago and fume till his hearts content. The potential criminal charges are his real worry. The dog and pony show in congress is a waste of time. The talking heads never shut up. Perhaps his biggest problem is he is now a pariah to the corporate world.
delta1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
his Twitter rants were occasionally entertaining...I sorta miss them...
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
RayR wrote:
Oh Golly! Frank has got himself an attack parrot!🦜

and you've got smoothie!
cool.

actually, I'm quite comfortable and confidant in much, not all, of what you derisively call main stream. Having a brain that is not indoctrinated by hatred and despair, I find it rather easy to discern recording from reporting, and can pull the story from the noise.

It seems quite clear to me that the most biased reporting (recording with a slant) comes not from the middle, not from the center left, not from the center right, but from the extremes, to one of which you clearly belong. You're being fed bias attempting to prove a position rather than analyze issue by issue, not me. I develop opinions based on specific issues, not an edgy blanket philosophy. Country over party...get it?

Having once been under the influence of an extreme political bent, I understand the warped perspective with which it infects it's ardent adherents. Hopefully one day you will realize that one size does not fit all...it's simply not possible that one view is always correct, has all the answers.

And even if that was possible, the one you have chosen to explain all, if correct, would have a ton of followers, not a paltry handful after all these years.
RayR Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
Yes Frank, I am an extremist in the conventional meaning of the word these days, where violent anti-social progressivism is considered normal to the main stream. It is they who believe that one size fits all and they have the right to shove it down anyone's throat that resists no matter how stupid or evil it is. I'm an advocate for the rights of the individual, not for any collective or group so your inference that I somehow think "one size fits all" makes no sense. There is no one size fits all subjected to the individual where there is the liberty to have individual choice without state coercion. It's that liberty that is so abhorrent to main stream statists who demand conformity and obedience to the moral reprobates of a ruling class or the folly of democracy... ..
I have no interest in the wishy washy position that there is no answer that is always correct, I will always defer to the individuals choice to make the determination as to what is correct, their own rational voluntary choices based on moral and economic grounds regardless of whether their choice was right or wrong. That is my "edgy blanket philosophy". . .
delta1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
as a member of a civilized society, one must temper the idea of individualism with the ideal of citizenship...

the individual named Trump will be shown that unbridled self serving "liberties" that bring harm to, and infringes upon the rights of, other individuals, that cross the bounds accepted by individuals within our civilized society that all citizens agree to accept as common limits: the price of citizenship...freedom for all individual citizens, within the rule of law

my vision of America is one that a majority of citizens share: ours is a nation that comprises a multi-cultural, multi-racial diverse group of people who have embraced the concepts of freedom and liberty and justice for all, and woven them into a functioning society that is self-governed and self-sustaining...that individual freedoms can be held as a core principle while advancing the interests of the commons...
Krazeehorse Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
frankj1 wrote:
read somewhere he may be legally entitled to live there if he is an employee...but many are said to be allowing their memberships to expire if he does.


Probably like all the liberal celebrities that moved to Canada when he won the election.
delta1 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
end the Draft!!!
RayR Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
delta1 wrote:
as a member of a civilized society, one must temper the idea of individualism with the ideal of citizenship...

the individual named Trump will be shown that unbridled self serving "liberties" that bring harm to, and infringes upon the rights of, other individuals, that cross the bounds accepted by individuals within our civilized society that all citizens agree to accept as common limits: the price of citizenship...freedom for all individual citizens, within the rule of law

my vision of America is one that a majority of citizens share: ours is a nation that comprises a multi-cultural, multi-racial diverse group of people who have embraced the concepts of freedom and liberty and justice for all, and woven them into a functioning society that is self-governed and self-sustaining...that individual freedoms can be held as a core principle while advancing the interests of the commons...


OK, you see visions, but how about some reality?
There never has been one America that embraced the concepts of freedom and liberty and justice for all. That's more obvious today under Biden's unity mumbo-jumbo. The interests of the commons (special interests as they really are in practical politics) still trumps individual freedoms. It's backwards, socialistic, uncivilized and anti-liberal (in the true sense of the word).
When you talk about common limits in a civilized society, how does that fit in with government that recognises no limits to its power, that only pays lip service to the rule of law like constitutions and such? Like Dictator Biden and such other sociopaths that trounce on individual liberties.
I stopped believing in visions of things that aren't there along time ago as reality showed a sick and decaying corpse of a republic. But other people are such romantics.
delta1 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
what individual freedoms are you missing, or being deprived of, as a citizen of America?


where you see a decaying corpse, I see a vibrant living society with promise and potential...despite differences among factions...

these differences provide motivation and opportunity for the improvement of the body as a whole
RayR Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
delta1 wrote:
what individual freedoms are you missing, or being deprived of, as a citizen of America?


where you see a decaying corpse, I see a vibrant living society with promise and potential...despite differences among factions...

these differences provide motivation and opportunity for the improvement of the body as a whole


It's must be something like Stockholm Syndrome that intellectually anaesthetizes Americans to the failures of government and the abuses of their rulers. That must be the answer, a sort of democratically-developed collective infantilization, like a battered child that still loves and trusts their abusive parent. Alas I am not a mental health practitioner so I do not know of a treatment.Not talking
delta1 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
.
RayR Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
delta1 wrote:
.


Left you speechless huh? Ya, they never taught you this stuff in gubment skool.
delta1 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
what freedoms are you missing?
frankj1 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
delta1 wrote:
what freedoms are you missing?

not being sarcastic, but I feel bad for him.
He is so miserable in America and there isn't any country that believes in what he thinks is the way to go either.

It's all negative rhetoric without any solutions to offer...over and over and over again. How he doesn't jump off a cliff is a mystery.

Ironically, I have voted Libertarian in the last two Presidential elections and he didn't even vote at all...after all the preaching! And he calls me a commie?

sad, truly.
tonygraz Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,232
I say deport the bastid !
RayR Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
frankj1 wrote:
not being sarcastic, but I feel bad for him.
He is so miserable in America and there isn't any country that believes in what he thinks is the way to go either.

It's all negative rhetoric without any solutions to offer...over and over and over again. How he doesn't jump off a cliff is a mystery.

Ironically, I have voted Libertarian in the last two Presidential elections and he didn't even vote at all...after all the preaching! And he calls me a commie?

sad, truly.


You really need to stop lying and spreading rumors Frank Liar , you know I voted Libertarian.Shame on you
I still don't understand why you do. There must be some deep subconscious hate for the Demopublican establishment trying to express itself. I can understand that. Hate for what is wrong is good but first you have to have a set of principles to determine what is wrong.
Every con job they pull, every unconstitutional power they usurp, every forced mandate they legislate and every dollar they steal or counterfeit is a loss of freedom, but some people think these are core principles of good government or somethin like that. Crazy f*cks. Many people even cheer on and become willing serfs of their oppressors like I said earlier.. They even believe silly stuff like since their overlords allow them to vote, then they are free.

You know I feel sorry for those that are followers of statists. They don't know the meaning of liberty, they have allowed themselves to be conditioned to believe it is something it is not.

I was just reading an article about F.A. Harper, he understood what liberty was and what it was not.

https://fee.org/articles/what-liberty-is-like-and-unlike-20-analogies-from-fa-baldy-harper/



BuckyB93 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,167
delta1 wrote:
as a member of a civilized society, one must temper the idea of individualism with the ideal of citizenship...

the individual named Trump will be shown that unbridled self serving "liberties" that bring harm to, and infringes upon the rights of, other individuals, that cross the bounds accepted by individuals within our civilized society that all citizens agree to accept as common limits: the price of citizenship...freedom for all individual citizens, within the rule of law

my vision of America is one that a majority of citizens share: ours is a nation that comprises a multi-cultural, multi-racial diverse group of people who have embraced the concepts of freedom and liberty and justice for all, and woven them into a functioning society that is self-governed and self-sustaining...that individual freedoms can be held as a core principle while advancing the interests of the commons...


I vote we use this to replace the Pledge of Allegiance.
RayR Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
BuckyB93 wrote:
I vote we use this to replace the Pledge of Allegiance.


Ya, yer right, it sounds so inclusive, compassionate, tolerant and groupthink indivisible like.
tonygraz Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,232
Looks like the russians don't like it.
RayR Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
tonygraz wrote:
Looks like the russians don't like it.


I don't know about that, I'll have to check with the Kremlin. I thought maybe they gave up all that nationalistic collectivist talk with the fall of the Soviet Union, but maybe not. Old habits die hard.

I know American parrots 🦜 like it, anything that is reminiscent of Francis Bellamy's original socialist Pledge of Allegiance is fine with that flock. Mindless repetition indoctrinates good yoots they say. It's the same technique used by the MSM, seeing them all repeating word for word the same slogans, platitudes and talking points until their viewers are mindlessly parroting the same.🦜🦜🦜🦜
frankj1 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
Krazeehorse wrote:
Probably like all the liberal celebrities that moved to Canada when he won the election.

even I would have driven a few to the border!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,398
BuckyB93 wrote:
I vote we use this to replace the Pledge of Allegiance.


With carbon credits, transgenderism and BLM for all.
delta1 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
If we do, it must also include "the shining city on the hill, with the thousand points of light" ...those are poetic phrases that exemplify how Americans should feel, rightfully, about this great country of ours...


frankj1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
RayR wrote:
You really need to stop lying and spreading rumors Frank Liar , you know I voted Libertarian.Shame on you
I still don't understand why you do.


apparently you never will either after being told why I do at least a half dozen times. I'm done home schooling you such a simple concept.

but the real point of my post that you avoided entirely (hard to believe) was that I honestly feel bad for how miserable you are to be living in a country that you hate and what's worse...there aren't any countries that offer your vision of utopia either.

Gripe after gripe after gripe...without a glimmer of hope for it to change, how do you drag your negative ass out of bed each day?

It's sad. Not kidding.


Smooth light Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Always feel 'Lucky in the Morning'
being born in the land of the free!

Cancel Cultural ain't gonna change that.
still theirs more trying to get in,then their is killing to prevent, we must be doing something right.
RayR Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,882
frankj1 wrote:
apparently you never will either after being told why I do at least a half dozen times. I'm done home schooling you such a simple concept.

but the real point of my post that you avoided entirely (hard to believe) was that I honestly feel bad for how miserable you are to be living in a country that you hate and what's worse...there aren't any countries that offer your vision of utopia either.

Gripe after gripe after gripe...without a glimmer of hope for it to change, how do you drag your negative ass out of bed each day?

It's sad. Not kidding.




There you go again Frank, lying and spreading rumors.Liar

I don't understand why you are so unconcerned about those uncivilized sociopaths who continually are working to fundamentally change America and make it UNFREE.
If you were a libertarian, you would be raising the alarm and trying to wake up the feckless proles from their comatose slumber.
MACS Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,751
The Washington Post has fessed up that a story it ran on a conversation between then-President Trump and a Georgia election official was…ah….incorrect.

Actually The Post story was more than incorrect. It was flat out false, replete with a made-up out of whole cloth, entirely fictitious “quote” from Trump. Here’s the correction in full: Correction:

“Two months after publication of this story, the Georgia secretary of state released an audio recording of President Donald Trump’s December phone call with the state’s top elections investigator. The recording revealed that The Post misquoted Trump’s comments on the call, based on information provided by a source. [Anonymous sources are not always reliable!]

Trump did not tell the investigator to “find the fraud” or say she would be “a national hero” if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find “dishonesty” there. He also told her that she had “the most important job in the country right now.” A story about the recording can be found here. The headline and text of this story have been corrected to remove quotes misattributed to Trump.”

“In sum: The Washington Post anonymously printed fabricated quotes they knew were from a second-hand source in the office of a political enemy, couldn’t confirm the quotes with additional sourcing, still attributed them to the sitting president of the United States, used those quotes as a basis to speculate the president committed a crime, and the Democratic party would later repeatedly cite the bogus article when attempting to impeach Trump for ‘high crimes and misdemeanors.’

But wait! It gets much worse. Several other major media outlets — including NBC, ABC, USA Today, PBS, and CNN — ‘confirmed’ the fabricated quotes from the Post’s anonymous source by, get this, citing their own anonymous sources.”

BuckyB93 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,167
Journalistic malpractice
MACS Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,751
BuckyB93 wrote:
Journalistic malpractice


Our media is rife with it.
Gene363 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,802
BuckyB93 wrote:
Journalistic malpractice


Translation: Journalistic malpractice - Mainstream Media
Smooth light Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
That's their way to apologize for, good old Uncle Joe. Just can't write anything negative about their new god.
rfenst Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,261
Macs, you know the article posted to start this thread came from WSJ, NOT WAPO, right?
HockeyDad Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,120
So they lied too!?
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>