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Last post 3 years ago by Speyside. 128 replies replies.
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Derek Chauvan Trial
frankj1 Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
wow.
lower case.
8trackdisco Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,075
HockeyDad wrote:
Is Minneapolis burning yet?


Hopefully the Target has been rebuilt and restocked. Can’t disappoint The Shoppers if there is an acquittal.
8trackdisco Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,075
ZRX1200 wrote:
George Floyd.

The only man to have 4 times a lethal dose of fentanyl


The Silver Lining... He wasn’t Underserved.
rfenst Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
teedubbya wrote:
Let it play out. It is what it is.

Get ready for a real ride on this one.
teedubbya Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea I know.
teedubbya Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I trust the system. Maybe I shouldn’t but it’s the best we got. I’ll abide by whatever the decision is instead of pounding my chest and pretending somehow I know more.

Black, Blue.... more similar than different at times.
bgz Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
BuckyB93 wrote:
Once the lawyers see frank enter the room, they know it's going to be a hung jury.


Alright, Bucky wins... next thread.
Speyside Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
A police officer has a thankless job. Then a few bad ones make their jobs much more difficult. Chauvin is guilty of something, but just what that is I am truly not sure of.

Also black people are wary of police and police are wary of black people. Both have legitimate reasons to feel that way. No matter what the outcome of the trial, Chauvin has already paid a huge price. A man died needlessly in his custody and he will live with that for the rest of his life.
frankj1 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
you're thinking he is like you.
Guilty or not, he can live with his part in this.
We couldn't.
MACS Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,769
^What are you thinking he's like? How do you know he can live with his "part" in this?

8trackdisco Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,075
Im wondering if this might be an OJ Revenge result.

One bastardized verdict following the prior.

Advocating for Equality is a lonely business.
rfenst Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
Anyone else happen to watch this live?
NOT looking good for Chauvin.
HockeyDad Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,128
They haven’t convicted him yet? This is a show trial.
ZRX1200 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
Which part wasn’t good? The drugs can cause hypoxia part or the part where the prosecutions witness said it sounded like “I ate too many drugs”....
Abrignac Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,268
I haven’t t watched it, but I’ve caught bits and pieces on the news. As Robert says it sucks to be Chauvin right now. However, his defense has yet to be presented. I suspect a Frankie T jury.
rfenst Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
Think about the jurors who all have to sit there and listen and watch this all day long, day after day after day, I can't imagine what the mental recovery time for them will be,
rfenst Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
ZRX1200 wrote:
Which part wasn’t good? The drugs can cause hypoxia part or the part where the prosecutions witness said it sounded like “I ate too many drugs”....

That's your own take-away from watching the trial yourself?
Speyside Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
My main concern is that he gets a fair trial which I think he has up to now.
Speyside Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I would like to hear testimony from a pathologist expert also. I do not think a pulmonary expert is sufficient.
rfenst Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
Speyside wrote:
I would like to hear testimony from a pathologist expert also. I do not think a pulmonary expert is sufficient.

Are you watching today?
Speyside Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
No, was there a pathology expert?
ZRX1200 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
Robert I watch bits....I avoid most media most of the time.
rfenst Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
Speyside wrote:
No, was there a pathology expert?

Yes, There were two. One was the former head of the department who trained her subordinate, who was the other pathologist testifying. Both basically said it was the knee on the neck/back and not the drugs or pre-existing conditions, Of course they did have to to concede quite a bit on cross examination. The retired pathologist was there for free, not as a paid expert.
Speyside Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Robert, thank you. I am having a difficult time coming to a conclusion of what I think he is guilty of. Have you formed an opinion?
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
waiting to hear the defense witnesses
rfenst Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
Speyside wrote:
Robert, thank you. I am having a difficult time coming to a conclusion of what I think he is guilty of. Have you formed an opinion?

I haven't looked at the statutes or jury instructions for the alleged crimes, but I will...

rfenst Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
frankj1 wrote:
waiting to hear the defense witnesses

This is going to be very interesting. I wonder whether Chauvin will testify?
ZRX1200 Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
You think he should?
rfenst Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
No opinion yet. He has the entire trial to decide weather to be testify. All the way until the very end...
Anything now would just be a wild guess. I really need to read the criminal statutes along with the standard jury instructions.
jespear Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2004
Posts: 9,464
Stogie1020 wrote:
My gut says that will happen regardless of the outcome.


^
THIS !

Speyside Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Minneapolis is in danger no matter what the verdict. Perhaps other big cities as well. I think every national guard should be mobilized in advance, all LEOS should be out and about the day of, no one should go to a big city the day of. Also properly arm the guard and the LEOS. Our town has plans in place.
HockeyDad Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,128
Defund the police and light up Minneapolis!
BuckyB93 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,183
Not a good time to be a small business owner in Minneapolis.

Or Milwaukee.
Or Chicago.
Or Baltimore.
Or Portland.
Or NYC.
Or LA.
Or DC.
Or...
Speyside Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
You forgot Seattle.
izonfire Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,647
I’m thinking it’s a great time to be a small business owner.
If your business is delivering pallets of bricks...
ZRX1200 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
Or pitchforks and torches!!!

Le Hockey Dad is it too late to invest??
HockeyDad Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,128
ZRX1200 wrote:
Or pitchforks and torches!!!

Le Hockey Dad is it too late to invest??


The product moving now is pre-made Molotov cocktails. For that busy protester on the go.

DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
But does that busy protester on the go have a way to transport and launch multiple molotov cocktails..?? That's where the money is... Think
frankj1 Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
has anyone considered that the villain in all of the Floyd related protests/riots might just be Chauvin and not the dead guy?

I really am waiting to see the defense roll out, this has been amazing to watch, but if nothing changes, are people ready to accept a reality they have been denying?

Yesterday the doctor who performed the autopsy called it homicide...again! Even after agreeing about preexisting heart and other conditions.

I have been impressed with Nelson so far, but can't imagine how he's going to overcome what has been presented to this point.
tonygraz Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,242
DrafterX wrote:
But does that busy protester on the go have a way to transport and launch multiple molotov cocktails..?? That's where the money is... Think


Are you aware that they are not the new russian drink sensation ?
rfenst Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
frankj1 wrote:
has anyone considered that the villain in all of the Floyd related protests/riots might just be Chauvin and not the dead guy?

I really am waiting to see the defense roll out, this has been amazing to watch, but if nothing changes, are people ready to accept a reality they have been denying?

Yesterday the doctor who performed the autopsy called it homicide...again! Even after agreeing about preexisting heart and other conditions.

I have been impressed with Nelson so far, but can't imagine how he's going to overcome what has been presented to this point.


The defense will be great- as it probably has been funded by the police union. All sorts of experts to confirm every point the defense elicited during cross examination. Fireworks will fly!
ZRX1200 Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
Frank I don’t think you’d find anyone here who thinks Chauvin did NOTHING wrong.....

Hammer meet nail
DrMaddVibe Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,407
He's rollin'...just let him go...
MACS Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,769
“Under cross-examination, defense lawyer Eric Nelson asked if drug use could cause hypoxia, and the doctor said it could. Mr. Nelson inquired about Floyd’s high carbon dioxide levels, and whether that could be caused by Fentanyl. Dr. Langenfeld said that it could; the “primary reason” Fentanyl is so dangerous is that is depresses the lungs. A high carbon dioxide level causes shortness of breath, even without stress. The doctor also said that Fentanyl causes sleepiness, and Mr. Nelson said in his Opening Statement that he would produce a witness to testify that Floyd was very sleepy before the police showed up.”…

…Mr. Nelson showed the lieutenant a photo of a paramedic checking George Floyd’s carotid pulse by feeling the side of Floyd’s neck while Officer Chauvin still had his knee on him. “In your experience, would you be able to touch the carotid artery if the knee was on the carotid artery?” Lt. Mercil replied, “No, sir.”

The defense then showed a screenshot from one of the officers’ body cameras, that showed Officer Chauvin holding Floyd down. Lt. Mercil agreed that Officer Chauvin’s shin appeared to be across Floyd’s shoulder blade, not on his neck. There were two other screenshots with different time stamps that also showed Officer Chauvin’s shin across Floyd’s shoulder blade.

When he looked at a fourth photo that showed Officer Chauvin’s knee, the lieutenant said this seemed to be a “hold,” not a neck restraint. He conceded that it’s possible he had to hold someone down for 10 minutes in his own police career, and that he had held people down while waiting for Emergency Medical Services. He has trained officers to do this…

…“In cross examination, Eric Nelson asked an intriguing question: Was Chief Arradondo familiar with “Camera Perspective Bias.” The chief said he was not. Camera Perspective Bias refers to the fact that the point of view from which you see an event can change your opinion of it.

Two videos were shown in court, both separately and side-by-side. The side-by-side version matched the timing of the two videos, so you could see the same event from two points of view. One video was taken by 17-year-old Darnella Frazier with her phone and the other was video from Officer J. Alexander Kueng’s body camera. From Darnella Frazier’s perspective, it looks like Officer Chauvin had his knee on George Floyd’s neck — but Police Chief Arradondo agreed that from the perspective of Officer Kueng’s body cam, Officer Chauvin’s knee was on Floyd’s shoulder blade. Up until that moment, the chief said he thought the knee had been on Floyd’s neck.”
rfenst Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,278
It's a shot-gun-type defense so far. Defense lawyer probably should not be doing this alone without help. His stamina is impressive, however. Notice how every statement defense lawyer makes, he makes it to influence the jury by plant "seeds of doubt"?

Better expert witnesses will concede whatever they truthfully must... so as to avoid loss of credibility. But, yet the even better and smarter ones are able to calmly interject a short explanation of why they might disagree with the points being elicited, rather than simply yes or no.

My call today after the fact: Today's use of force expert was much better than defense attorney. Imagine a different/second good lawyer who has expert witness experiences pent hours and hours preparing for that single cross examination......


Isn't there some one around her who is or was a Judge???
Wonder if it would be possible for him to comment or not .............
delta1 Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,780
did the defense plant a reasonable doubt?

a lot bad police officers walk on the slimmest of doubt, because most juries have inherent pro-police sentiments
ZRX1200 Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
Really?

Popular public opinion would disagree
delta1 Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,780
how many cops have gone to trial ....let alone been convicted, given the numbers of excessive force cases?

in this case, the one difference that did not happen in many other past cases is the large number of "expert" police witnesses, currently serving police, who were willing to testify against Chauvin...that may overcome the pro-police sentiment and result in his conviction...
Whistlebritches Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
delta1 wrote:
how many cops have gone to trial ....let alone been convicted, given the numbers of excessive force cases?



My personal beliefs are the reason for this phenomenon is that most of the victims in these cases are neither victims nor choir boys.
ZRX1200 Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
Al lemme tell ya, I questioned a county sheriff at trial and caught him up in a blatant lie. Judge wanted to “talk to him in his chambers”.

No apology for him trying to blame me for a crime I didn’t commit.

No charges for lying under oath.

I don’t blindly believe cops.

There is definitely a thin blue line, and I’m not a fan of the escalation of force we have.
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