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rfenst Offline
#1 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 2:37 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Will probably be read in an hour!
HockeyDad Offline
#2 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 2:48 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
Board your windows!
rfenst Offline
#3 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 2:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
HockeyDad wrote:
Board your windows!

QUICK at the very least.
It wasn't a long, stressful several day wait...
HockeyDad Offline
#4 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
rfenst wrote:
QUICK at the very least.
It wasn't a long, stressful several day wait...


They knew what they had to do or their addresses get out and their houses get burned down.
If they convict for a lesser charge they still get burned down.
Hung jury they get burned down.
rfenst Offline
#5 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
HockeyDad wrote:
Board your windows!

I don't have to. Gov. DeSantis signed a new riot law effective upon his signing!
rfenst Offline
#6 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:08 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
HockeyDad wrote:
They knew what they had to do or their addresses get out and their houses get burned down.
If they convict for a lessor charge they still get burned down.
Hung jury they get burned down.


I watched the entire trial from day one. Look at the Elements of the charges are given to use. It is likely a no-brainer.
rfenst Offline
#7 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:13 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
.
HockeyDad Offline
#8 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:20 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
rfenst wrote:
I watched the entire trial from day one. Look at the Elements of the charges are given to use. It is likely a no-brainer.


That kinda what Maxine Waters and now Joe Biden said. The jury has no real choice here.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#9 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
One could make a case for not guilty based off of what you posted Robert.

Sure the 9 minutes looked damning...but it was only the last 90 seconds where he wasn't combative or talking. It was based off that that I believe the other cops didn't jump in and alter Chauvin.

The expert testimony where they described Fentanyl sure made it sound like his death was predicated on his drug usage of that.
Stogie1020 Offline
#10 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:26 PM EST
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,307
"You will satisfy the angry mob or else!!!"


On a side note, it is really hard to board up your windows right now due to the price of lumber.
rfenst Offline
#11 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:36 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
DrMaddVibe wrote:
One could make a case for not guilty based off of what you posted Robert.

Sure the 9 minutes looked damning...but it was only the last 90 seconds where he wasn't combative or talking. It was based off that that I believe the other cops didn't jump in and alter Chauvin.

The expert testimony where they described Fentanyl sure made it sound like his death was predicated on his drug usage of that.


Yes. My post isn't right so I will repost it all...

All the state needs to convict is that it was a one of the causes of death, not the "sole" cause of death.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#12 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
rfenst wrote:
Yes. My post isn't right so I will repost it all...

All the state needs to convict is that it was a one of the causes of death, not the "sole" cause of death.


Ok, changes a bit but still a not guilty verdict could be reached.
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:44 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
I think all the state needed was to show up. An acquittal is not an option.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
HockeyDad wrote:
I think all the state needed was to show up. An acquittal is not an option.


Their attorney made damned sure an appeal is going to be made.
rfenst Offline
#15 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Their attorney made damned sure an appeal is going to be made.

He sure was smooth, wasn't he. And, the judge sure allowed him to object on the record in case of appeal.
dkeage Offline
#16 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:07 PM EST
Joined: 03-05-2004
Posts: 15,149
rfenst wrote:
Will probably be read in an hour!

Or not..
dkeage Offline
#17 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 03-05-2004
Posts: 15,149
Perfect timing...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#18 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
Guilty all counts
rfenst Offline
#19 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:11 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Why did they convict on all three charges, instead of just the highest charge? You would think they would just find him guilty on the one of the count's, not sure. Will have to see if this will be an appellate issue? Probably not... And their intent is pretty clear.
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:12 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Pretty hard to convict a cop. Must have been pretty obvious.
rfenst Offline
#21 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:19 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
teedubbya wrote:
Pretty hard to convict a cop. Must have been pretty obvious.

Prossecutor was very effective and deserves an "A" for performance.
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
learned today that Chauvin tried to plead guilty to something but then AG Barr said it was too early...?

any idea Robert?
Krazeehorse Offline
#23 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:39 PM EST
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
rfenst wrote:
Why did they convict on all three charges, instead of just the highest charge? You would think they would just find him guilty on the one of the count's, not sure. Will have to see if this will be an appellate issue? Probably not... And their intent is pretty clear.

Appeasement. Now let's go grab some Nikes!!
teedubbya Offline
#24 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:45 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Pretty hard to convict a cop. Even with video showing guilt. Kind of hard to call this one appeasement with a straight face.
rfenst Offline
#25 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 4:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
frankj1 wrote:
learned today that Chauvin tried to plead guilty to something but then AG Barr said it was too early...?

any idea Robert?

Today? Not a bad strategy...
If so, he would have to waive all appeals and might just get some part of say where he will stay with a little lesser
risk. He is "dead-man walking" in a general population prison. Remember, there is still an "aggravation" enhancement tbd by the judge...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#26 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
rfenst wrote:
Why did they convict on all three charges, instead of just the highest charge? You would think they would just find him guilty on the one of the count's, not sure. Will have to see if this will be an appellate issue? Probably not... And their intent is pretty clear.



This cancer was going to spread to every BLMcentric enclave if they didn't find him guilty on all charges. I think I heard they charged him guilty for sleeping and breathing as well.


Wait...they just found him guilty of blinking his eyes too!
teedubbya Offline
#27 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:13 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sometimes guilty just means guilty.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#28 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
teedubbya wrote:
Sometimes guilty just means guilty which means guilty.


Fixed it.

You forgot the 3rd one!
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:16 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
So strange.
fiddler898 Offline
#30 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:18 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
First, I’m grateful for the verdict. At the same time, George Floyd is dead. Nothing can change that and he didn’t die, but was killed. Gratefully, the MPD did not try to deflect Chauvin's action behind the blue curtain, and kudos to them. Still, to me, it’s not about "who" won, but "what" - Justice won.
HockeyDad Offline
#31 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:20 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
teedubbya wrote:
Sometimes guilty just means guilty.


Yes, it was the only verdict. I don’t blame the jury, they’ve done their duty nothing more. Now they can go back to living their lives. Maybe even a book deal or at least a few paid interviews. Beats the alternative. I would have done the same thing.
teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:21 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The victory party is tiring already but the dude is guilty and no one I’d want to support. All the bizarro theories about the video etc had their day in court. The scumbag killed another scumbag and thought he could hide behind a badge. Often cops can. This time the video was just too much to overcome the pro cop bias of the judicial system (intentionally and probably deservedly pro cop bias given the challenges of the job...just a bit to far).

By no means do we have anything remotely resembling an anti cop judicial system despite those rooting for this scum bags acquittal may scream.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#33 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
so weird.
teedubbya Offline
#34 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HockeyDad wrote:
Yes, it was the only verdict. I don’t blame the jury, they’ve done their duty nothing more. Now they can go back to living their lives. Maybe even a book deal or at least a few paid interviews. Beats the alternative. I would have done the same thing.



It is pretty clear he is guilty if you strip away the garbage. Yet it’s sad there was a question right up to the verdict.
teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrMaddVibe wrote:
so weird.



Agreed.
HockeyDad Offline
#36 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:36 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
teedubbya wrote:
It is pretty clear he is guilty if you strip away the garbage. Yet it’s sad there was a question right up to the verdict.


Absolutely. If I were on that jury I would have had him guilty before the opening arguments.
Abrignac Offline
#37 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,261
Guilty of killing someone 3 times. Very 🤔
frankj1 Offline
#38 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:46 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
rfenst wrote:
Today? Not a bad strategy...
If so, he would have to waive all appeals and might just get some part of say where he will stay with a little lesser
risk. He is "dead-man walking" in a general population prison. Remember, there is still an "aggravation" enhancement tbd by the judge...





Didn't happen today, I learned of it today...it was while Barr was AG and Barr wouldn't allow it.
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:47 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Minnesota has a quirky legal system.

The celebration party is disturbing. This is nothing to celebrate. It should be an expectation in these situations not a novelty.
frankj1 Offline
#40 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
frankj1 wrote:
Didn't happen today, I learned of it today...it was while Barr was AG and Barr wouldn't allow it.

just read that knowing he was in deep chit he was hoping to go to Federal prison for a decade.
rfenst Offline
#41 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 5:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Feb. 11, 2021, 12:22 PM EST
By Pete Williams
The fired Minneapolis police officer who held his knee to George Floyd's neck agreed to plead guilty to third-degree murder days after Floyd's death, but then-Attorney General William Barr rejected the deal.

Derek Chauvin and the three other officers involved were fired the day after Floyd's death on May 25 and later arrested. Chauvin faces second-degree murder charges and is scheduled for trial in March. The other three are charged with aiding and abetting and are to be tried together in the summer.

The details of the failed deal were first reported by The New York Times.

A former Justice Department official confirmed the failed deal to NBC News, saying that both politically appointed and career Department of Justice officials had rejected the idea.

"His lawyers were trying to rush us, and we didn't want to be rushed," the official said.

Chauvin's lawyer, Eric Nelson, declined to comment Thursday.

A spokesperson for Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, who is leading the prosecution, said he could not comment because it covers a period before Ellison was assigned to the case.

Lacey Severins, a spokeswoman for the Hennepin County attorney's office, which was handling the case at the time, said: "As is typical in many cases, early negotiations can occur between all relevant parties involved. Many times, a defendant will explore their options with a negotiation. It is also common for these types of discussions to happen in the beginning of a case and then have no agreed upon negotiations develop. This case was no different. Negotiations were discussed, nothing developed."

Floyd's death sparked nationwide protests and renewed calls for an end to police brutality and racial inequities.

"As part of the deal, officials now say, he was willing to go to prison for more than 10 years," the Times reported. "Local officials, scrambling to end the community's swelling anger, scheduled a news conference to announce the deal."

But the deal fell apart, the Times reported, citing three law enforcement officials, because Barr worried that it was too early in the investigation and would be perceived as too lenient. Barr also wanted to allow state officials taking over the case time to make their own decisions, the Times reported.

Chauvin had asked to serve his time in a federal prison, and the deal was contingent on the federal government's approval because Chauvin wanted assurance he would not face federal civil rights charges, the Times reported.

It would be highly unusual for the Justice Department to agree in advance to stop a civil rights investigation and forgo any possible federal prosecution before state proceedings have fully played out.
...



Pete Williams
Pete Williams is an NBC News correspondent who covers the Justice Department and the Supreme Court, based in Washington.
frankj1 Offline
#42 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
Minnesota has a quirky legal system.

The celebration party is disturbing. This is nothing to celebrate. It should be an expectation in these situations not a novelty.

I'm feeling like the initial reaction is related to justice for the Floyd family, but the long haul effect, to use a newly common phrase, is for the hope that this is a giant step for fairness for every citizen in this melting pot called USA.

Not to say it will be the final step...
frankj1 Offline
#43 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 6:15 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
rfenst wrote:
Feb. 11, 2021, 12:22 PM EST
By Pete Williams
The fired Minneapolis police officer who held his knee to George Floyd's neck agreed to plead guilty to third-degree murder days after Floyd's death, but then-Attorney General William Barr rejected the deal.

Derek Chauvin and the three other officers involved were fired the day after Floyd's death on May 25 and later arrested. Chauvin faces second-degree murder charges and is scheduled for trial in March. The other three are charged with aiding and abetting and are to be tried together in the summer.

The details of the failed deal were first reported by The New York Times.

A former Justice Department official confirmed the failed deal to NBC News, saying that both politically appointed and career Department of Justice officials had rejected the idea.

"His lawyers were trying to rush us, and we didn't want to be rushed," the official said.

Chauvin's lawyer, Eric Nelson, declined to comment Thursday.

A spokesperson for Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, who is leading the prosecution, said he could not comment because it covers a period before Ellison was assigned to the case.

Lacey Severins, a spokeswoman for the Hennepin County attorney's office, which was handling the case at the time, said: "As is typical in many cases, early negotiations can occur between all relevant parties involved. Many times, a defendant will explore their options with a negotiation. It is also common for these types of discussions to happen in the beginning of a case and then have no agreed upon negotiations develop. This case was no different. Negotiations were discussed, nothing developed."

Floyd's death sparked nationwide protests and renewed calls for an end to police brutality and racial inequities.

"As part of the deal, officials now say, he was willing to go to prison for more than 10 years," the Times reported. "Local officials, scrambling to end the community's swelling anger, scheduled a news conference to announce the deal."

But the deal fell apart, the Times reported, citing three law enforcement officials, because Barr worried that it was too early in the investigation and would be perceived as too lenient. Barr also wanted to allow state officials taking over the case time to make their own decisions, the Times reported.

Chauvin had asked to serve his time in a federal prison, and the deal was contingent on the federal government's approval because Chauvin wanted assurance he would not face federal civil rights charges, the Times reported.

It would be highly unusual for the Justice Department to agree in advance to stop a civil rights investigation and forgo any possible federal prosecution before state proceedings have fully played out.
...



Pete Williams
Pete Williams is an NBC News correspondent who covers the Justice Department and the Supreme Court, based in Washington.

thanks, Robert.
Lacking any credible evidence, it makes me feel like Chauvin knew the truth and wanted to get the softest deal with the best chance of surviving the sentence...
And our resident loonies (no offense rayr and your ilk) should celebrate Barr's decision as a win for states to control what happens in states.
delta1 Offline
#44 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 6:45 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
although I was skeptical given America's history of acquitting bad cops, I am hopeful that Chauvin's conviction marks a change in law enforcement practices, especially in how poor and minority citizens are served by their police...

the fact that so many law enforcement people were willing to testify that Chauvin's use of force was excessive may be a turning point in the heretofore solid blue wall of silence and the tolerance for bad policing

the efforts to paint Floyd as the villain and the cause of his own demise, a tried and true defense in the past, was undercut by the graphic video that showed exactly what killed Floyd...



wonder how this case would have been decided if that video didn't exist?


we all need to keep our cell-phones charged up, just in case...
izonfire Offline
#45 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:09 PM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
delta1 wrote:
.................another scary walk through Delta's psyche..........................................
wonder how this case would have been decided if that video didn't exist?
......

That video should not have been allowed in court, as it is very prejudicial...
teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:21 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Even his fellow cops testified against him. It’s a very special group of folks that don’t see this for what it is.
frankj1 Offline
#47 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
Even his fellow cops testified against him. It’s a very special group of folks that don’t see this for what it is.

and those weren't the hired gun experts.
Speyside Offline
#48 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:43 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
A jury has decided. What he is, is a murderer.
rfenst Offline
#49 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 7:45 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Delta, he might not even have been charged without the video.
teedubbya Offline
#50 Posted: Tue, Apr 20 2021, 8:03 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That is what is telling. Folks are justifying this kill WITH the video. What happens when there isn’t video?
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