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OPINION: Texas Has Cleared a Path to the End of Roe v. Wade
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
NYT
A major confrontation on the abortion battlefield looms this fall, when the Supreme Court is expected to hear arguments on whether Mississippi can ban abortion after 15 weeks. That’s roughly nine weeks before viability, the point at which states are now allowed to forbid abortion. To uphold Mississippi’s law, the court would have to eliminate its own viability rule or reverse Roe v. Wade altogether.

Given the composition of the court, there is a real chance the justices may overthrow Roe. But there is also the possibility that the court, for institutional or political reasons, may not yet want to upend that 1973 decision, which found the Constitution protects a woman’s right to have an abortion without undue government interference.

What then? A recent ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit seems tailor made for a Supreme Court that wants to look as if it cares about precedent while shooting a hole through that right. The appellate court relied on a past Supreme Court ruling to give leeway to the Texas Legislature to restrict a certain abortion procedure even though there was uncertainty about the medical consequences of the stricture.

Texas is one of several states that functionally ban dilation and evacuation, the safest and most common abortion procedure used in the second trimester. In performing the procedure, a doctor dilates the cervix and then removes a fetus using forceps and possibly suction.

The Texas law at issue in the case, Whole Woman’s Health v. Paxton, prohibits what the Fifth Circuit called “live dismemberment with forceps,” requiring doctors to ensure that fetal death occurs before an evacuation takes place.

Texas argued that the additional procedures it requires to guarantee fetal death were safe and effective, especially the use of digoxin, a heart medication that can also stop a fetal heartbeat. The state also asserted that experimental methods, such as injecting potassium chloride directly into the fetal heart or cutting the umbilical cord, would not threaten patients.

Abortion rights supporters say these procedures are unreliable, untested, unsafe and often unavailable. They add that Texas has essentially criminalized what has been the go-to abortion technique in the second trimester — dilation and evacuation without the additional steps to cause fetal demise.


This law was teed up by abortion opponents to build on their last major Supreme Court victory, a 2007 decision that ended fights over the late-term procedure they called partial-birth abortion. From the mid-1990s to the early 2000s, Congress and 21 states outlawed that uncommon procedure, which some critics compared to infanticide. Notably, the law passed by Congress did not include an exception for the protection of a pregnant woman’s health — a flash point in the subsequent litigation.

In voting 5-4 to uphold the bans, the court noted that there was “documented medical disagreement” over whether they “would ever impose significant health risks on women.” But Justice Anthony Kennedy added in his majority opinion in the case, Gonzales v. Carhart, that the court “has given state and federal legislatures wide discretion to pass legislation in areas where there is medical and scientific uncertainty.”


Abortion opponents got the message.

Led by the National Right to Life Committee, they argue that the Texas law is a sensible extension of the precedent set in Gonzales. Like the ban on the late-term abortions, the law focuses on a procedure primarily used in the second trimester and relies on the idea that lawmakers have freedom to maneuver when a matter is scientifically uncertain. In the Texas case, that’s whether there is a safe and reliable method of ensuring fetal demise before evacuation.

When the Fifth Circuit upheld the Texas law, it was Gonzales v. Carhart all over again. Just as the Supreme Court did in Gonzales, the appellate court held that “medical uncertainty” about the use of digoxin and other techniques to cause fetal demise “does not foreclose the exercise of legislative power in the abortion context.”


The Fifth Circuit decision, should it end up before the Supreme Court, offers an escape hatch for justices who might think it is prudent to take their time dismantling abortion rights.

The court’s institutionalists, led by Chief Justice John Roberts, do not want to crush respect for the federal judiciary. Honoring precedent makes the justices look more like jurists than partisans. And politically, overruling Roe also presents unique challenges.

Most Americans pay no attention to much of what the Supreme Court does, but abortion is different. A decision reversing Roe could energize abortion rights supporters to vote in 2022 and 2024 and also advance the cause of court reform. All of that means that the court’s conservative majority might hesitate to get rid of Roe quickly, especially without paying lip service to precedent.

That is the genius of the Texas strategy. There seems to be no trade-off between relying on precedent and gradually eliminating abortion rights. The message of the Fifth Circuit decision was clear: The court’s conservatives can have it all.



Ms. Ziegler is a professor at the Florida State University College of Law in Tallahassee and is the author of “Abortion and the Law in America: Roe v. Wade to the Present.”
Brewha Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,170
Prolly got Abutt’s fingerprints all over it. Hot wheel’s and his supporters gotta screw everybody in the name of jeebus…..
Whistlebritches Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
Thank God Governor Abbott is willing to stand up for the unborn..........people like that are damn hard to find these days,oh wait,not in Texas.The support on abortion ban in Texas is damn near 60%.So the majority have spoken.........any of you commies want to argue that,majority rule and all that stuff?
tonygraz Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,243
Too bad he can't stand up for his constituents
Whistlebritches Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
tonygraz wrote:
Too bad he can't stand up for his constituents


He is moron........that 70 plus % approval rating would indicate he is doing exactly what his constituents sent him to the governorship for.

I've noticed you're quite negative Tony.........did your mommy not hug you?
tonygraz Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,243
I'm not a momma's boy - you are very confused with Abbott, Cruz (or is it Cros) and Costello.
Brewha Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,170
Whistlebritches wrote:
Thank God Governor Abbott is willing to stand up for the unborn..........people like that are damn hard to find these days,oh wait,not in Texas.The support on abortion ban in Texas is damn near 60%.So the majority have spoken.........any of you commies want to argue that,majority rule and all that stuff?

60% is fake news.

Besides, Abutt stole the election. Everyone says. He is not even an American - and he HATES Texas.
That’s what he let Texans freeze to death and continues to do nothing.



Most Texans know that abortions are therapeutic and vote accordingly.
Whistlebritches Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
Brewha wrote:
60% is fake news.

Besides, Abutt stole the election. Everyone says. He is not even an American - and he HATES Texas.
That’s what he let Texans freeze to death and continues to do nothing.



Most Texans know that abortions are therapeutic and vote accordingly.


Libs answer to everything.........fake news,ironically you libs are the masters of fake news.

Stole the election...........I heard that about Biden but not Abbott

Abortions are therapeutic.......... Texans know this........Yet Texas is controlled and ran by the repubes.

I want some of what you been smoking
rfenst Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
Texas law would turn citizens into anti-abortion vigilantes

LOS ANGELES TIMES EDITORIALBOARD

A horrendous new Texas law scheduled to go into effect Wednesday would ban abortion when a fetal heartbeat is detected — typically around six weeks of gestation — and turn individuals into anti-abortion vigilantes by empowering them to file civil suits against anyone who provided an abortion or helped procure one.

Lawyers for a group of abortion clinics, doctors and advocates asked the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday to block the law, at least temporarily, pending a legal challenge. The high court should do so.

The law, adopted in May, is a breathtaking subversion of the constitutional right to a safe and legal abortion. It’s not surprising that it was concocted by a state legislature notorious for its efforts to hinder women from accessing abortion.

This time, the state lawmakers have outdone themselves. The law would narrow the window during which a person could terminate a pregnancy. At six weeks, most people don’t even know they are pregnant. And it would so scare doctors and clinics — with the threat of citizen-led lawsuits — that they simply stop providing abortions. And that is one goal of the law — to intimidate women’s health clinics, which also provide contraception and ob-gyn services, into discontinuing abortion services.

Nowhere in the U.S. is abortion banned as early as six weeks. Abortion is legal up to the point of viability outside the body — roughly 24 weeks into a pregnancy. That line has been established by landmark Supreme Court cases, including Roe vs. Wade (1973). There have been other state laws that ban abortions at six or eight weeks — or some other early point in the pregnancy — but they have been struck down by federal courts.


But with Texas Senate Bill 8, lawmakers have tried to get around federal precedent by creating a law that can be enforced only by private individuals going into state courts to sue abortion clinics and others. Texas state and local government agencies would have no part in enforcing this law.

Instead, it’s up to individuals to enforce the law — and if they win in the courts, they would be awarded at least $10,000. They would be allowed to sue anyone even remotely connected to getting someone an abortion — a clinic, a doctor who performed an abortion, a nurse who helped, even the driver who took the pregnant person to the clinic. The pregnant person could not be sued. That exemption sounds sympathetic to the mother-to-be, doesn’t it? But consider this: The law says that the defendants who get sued are not allowed to argue that they were only helping the pregnant person exercise her constitutional rights.

So the one individual — the pregnant person — who would stand the best chance of prevailing in this court of the absurd would not even be allowed to be sued.

In Texas, about 85 to 90% of abortions are performed at or beyond six weeks. If this law goes through, it’s likely that most of those who want to end a pregnancy in Texas won’t realize they are pregnant in time to get a legal abortion.
Some clinics — there are currently 21 in Texas — will simply stop offering abortions altogether. Amy Hagstrom Miller, the chief executive of Whole Woman’s Health, which runs four clinics in Texas, says her clinics will comply with the law, if it stands, by offering abortions only up to six weeks.

“Our staff are terrified of being sued,” she said, noting that even if doctors ultimately prevailed, they would have to first defend themselves in costly civil proceedings.

Miller says abortion opponents routinely stand outside the clinics, watching who comes and goes and videotaping staff and patients. “These people on the sidewalks already know the names of our nurses and doctors and staff,” making note of staff name tags and vehicle license plates, she said. “This is not some abstract legal theory to our staff.”

Abortion clinics and advocates have challenged the law by suing Texas court clerks and state judges who would be involved in these civil proceedings. “Our point is that individuals can’t enforce those laws by themselves,” says Marc Hearron, senior counsel for the Center for Reproductive Rights. Court clerks and judges are involved in bringing the cases into court.

[h]The Supreme Court has agreed to hear a case from Mississippi that would ban abortions at 15 weeks onward.
The nation is already on tenterhooks, waiting to see whether Roe will be left standing. While that larger battle proceeds, the federal courts need to stop this crazy Texas law, before it wreaks havoc on women’s lives.
HockeyDad Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,128
When the article starts with:

“LOS ANGELES TIMES EDITORIALBOARD
A horrendous new Texas law“

It is time to tune out.
Dg west deptford Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
The op title is wishful thinking

Did here the law passed limits child murder in the womb to 6 weeks old.

Hardly a controversial law. Unless you're a God hating devil.

In which case yell at your mom for allowing you to escape the evil clutches of murderous swine.
Give grandma a piece of your mind as well.
Dg west deptford Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
The American people are eager to humanize our extreme, outdated abortion laws. This law reflects the scientific reality that unborn children are human beings, with beating hearts by six weeks

"States have the right to act on what science and ethics clearly tell us, which is that these children have their whole life ahead of them and deserve our protection. Pro-life legislators in Texas and Governor Abbott deserve credit for their efforts to defend vulnerable human life."

Hillary's pissed!

Praise the Lord!
rfenst Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
.
rfenst Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
Dg west deptford wrote:
The op title is wishful thinking

Did here the law passed limits child murder in the womb to 6 weeks old.

Hardly a controversial law. Unless you're a God hating devil.

In which case yell at your mom for allowing you to escape the evil clutches of murderous swine.
Give grandma a piece of your mind as well.

So, abortion up to six weeks is OK with you?

(Yes, I am your God hatting devil. LOL.)
Dg west deptford Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Certainly not!

Now if you'd answer me.


Is abortion ever not ok with you?

Is partial birth decapitation ok in you're world view?

Why not kill the child 6 weeks after birth if it's not convenient ?

"You could make the child comfortable than have a talk"
rfenst Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
Dg west deptford wrote:
Certainly not!

Now if you'd answer me.


Is abortion ever not ok with you? I don't like abortion beyond the time of viability outside the womb. However, the decision belongs to the woman, not me.

Is partial birth decapitation ok in you're world view? Yes

Why not kill the child 6 weeks after birth if it's not convenient ? Because it is already born.

"You could make the child comfortable than have a talk"

bgz Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
Certainly not!

Now if you'd answer me.


Is abortion ever not ok with you?

Is partial birth decapitation ok in you're world view?

Why not kill the child 6 weeks after birth if it's not convenient ?

"You could make the child comfortable than have a talk"


Victor has advocated for abortions up to 18 years of age.

I think honor killings are allowed by most religions... subjectively including yours...

It could be said that the egg was fertilized by unpure means, therefore dishonoring the hosts parents... thus the host.

So.... there's that.
Dg west deptford Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Nope.

That's the problem with "religion"

It's man's attempt to justify God.

Toss the religion. Stick with the Word of God to form your worldview.

rfenst Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
Dg west deptford wrote:
Nope.

That's the problem with "religion"

It's man's attempt to justify God.

Toss the religion. Stick with the Word of God to form your worldview.


Which/whose "Word of God?"
RayR Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,884
Somebody should help Biden read the Constitution, he has not only flagrantly violated the Constitution himself recently and should be impeached but he must also think the document must have been amended to make having an abortion a universal "constitutional right" in the entire Union.

There is such enumerated power in the Constitution that gives any branch of the federal government to do any such thing.
Of course, 90% of what the dying constitutional republic does is unconstitutional these days, so what's one more imaginary power for the feds to pull out of the air? Biden like all progtard's believes the federal government was given the constitutional authority to give and protect rights or even take away rights that are explicitly guaranteed to the states and the people, rights that were not to be infringed upon by the federal government.

“This extreme Texas law blatantly violates the constitutional right established under Roe v. Wade and upheld as precedent for nearly half a century,” Biden said in a statement on Tuesday.


Joe Biden Says Texas Abortion “Heartbeat” Law Violates Constitutional Right Under Roe v. Wade
By Cristina Laila
Published September 1, 2021 at 11:48am


Quote:
Joe Biden immediately came out and attacked Texas for its “heartbeat” abortion law.

The “heartbeat” law will effectively outlaw abortions in the state after 6 weeks and also gives any citizen – including those outside Texas – the right to take legal action against anyone who ‘aids and abets’ the termination of a pregnancy after the cut off point.

The Supreme Court did not respond to the ACLU’s lawsuit by the Tuesday night deadline.

The Marxists at the ACLU flipped out Tuesday night when the Supreme Court ignored their emergency request to block the 6-week abortion ban.

Joe Biden reacted to the “heartbeat” law quicker than he commented on 13 dead US service members.

Biden hid from the American people for 8 hours after 13 US service members were killed by a suicide blast in Kabul.

But he immediately released a statement on Texas’ new abortion bill.

That’s all you need to know about Joe Biden’s priorities.

More...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/joe-biden-says-texas-abortion-heartbeat-law-violates-constitution/

rfenst Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
What does Biden have to do with this? His opinion is irrelevant.
Dg west deptford Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
rfenst wrote:
Which/whose "Word of God?"


The only one.
Here's a clue, all the chosen oracles were Hebrew..
But God's word aside, your conscience will respond right along with God's law until you sear it as with a hot iron.

Hear oh Israel the LORD your Elohim is one.
Love him with all your heart,mind,soul, strength & your all.
& Your neighbor as yourself.

These children you want to decapitate are your neighbors Robert.
Brewha Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,170
Dg west deptford wrote:
The op title is wishful thinking

Did here the law passed limits child murder in the womb to 6 weeks old.

Hardly a controversial law. Unless you're a God hating devil.

In which case yell at your mom for allowing you to escape the evil clutches of murderous swine.
Give grandma a piece of your mind as well.

Or a intelligent agnostic….
Brewha Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,170
Dg west deptford wrote:
Nope.

That's the problem with "religion"

It's man's attempt to justify God.

Toss the religion. Stick with the Word of God to form your worldview.


Of course there is also the belief that man created god. In his own image in fact.
Many many time across all cultures since the time when the jaw bone of an ass was considered a WMD.

Not that I “know” that is true….
Dg west deptford Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Without God as a necessary starting point, you can't know anything. - epistemology 101

I guess that's why you put "know" in quotes

Very good Brew! You're more clever than some here.

However I "know" you "know" things to be true. So I "know" you "know" & are not agnostic- without knowledge.

Very good Brew!
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
bgz Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Brewha wrote:
Of course there is also the belief that man created god. In his own image in fact.
Many many time across all cultures since the time when the jaw bone of an ass was considered a WMD.

Not that I “know” that is true….


I personally believe God is shaped like a donut...

Prove me wrong.
bgz Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
Without God as a necessary starting point, you can't know anything. - epistemology 101


lol... what if I choose to start with quantum fluctuations?

Dg west deptford wrote:

I guess that's why you put "know" in quotes

Very good Brew! You're more clever than some here.

However I "know" you "know" things to be true. So I "know" you "know" & are not agnostic- without knowledge.

Very good Brew!
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge


I'm considered an atheist of the agnostic variety by those who like to put labels on things...

But it probably doesn't mean what you think it means.
Dg west deptford Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Ugh not this again.

The guy who doesn't believe in universal unchanging logic wants to have a rational debate which requires logic to prove anything.

It's a circular trap of fools.

I was enjoying Robert & Brew for change. They seem much brighter than you pinky
bgz Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
You don't even know what logic means...

You pre-assume a premise and call it logic. That's not logic... that's the antithesis to logic.

Everything after that is masterbatory horsesh*t.

Speaking of which... thought you didn't m4sterbate.
Dg west deptford Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
I know I'm feeding the troll here but ...

So you believe in unchanging universal logic?
Smooth light Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Love feeding the trolls, their very shifty critters, but it's free entertainment. Remember they only talk the codswallop of situational ethics nothing more nothing less. Makes them feel important 🤣
bgz Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
I know I'm feeding the troll here but ...

So you believe in unchanging universal logic?


Oh brother... why you so caught up in this belief sh*t?
BuckyB93 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,184
Dg west deptford wrote:
I know I'm feeding the troll here but ...

So you believe in unchanging universal logic?


My advice... just punt. Ben likes stirring the pot, It's not worth the energy, he's smoked more pot in one day than it's worth stirring...
Dg west deptford Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Agreed, Pinky has already stated he doesn't believe in the exitance of universal, invariant laws such as logic.
It's just annoying that he than wants to use logic to debate me. He forfeits his use of rationale than wants to present as rational.

It's as if he wants to argue against the existence of air all the while displaying to everyone he breathes it.
I admit, that part is fun for me.

I'll ignore his mindless stoner foolishness going forward.

I'd love to get back to #22 with the opener of this thread & much brighter rfenst.
bgz Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Pull a play from Rainman's book over there... Define logic.
Dg west deptford Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
bgz wrote:
Pull a play from Rainman's book over there... Define logic.


This is how it is with squirmy Truth deniers. They need a definition for truth & logic.
Their worldview is so quickly reduced to absurdity they need knowledge on things they KNOW they KNOW. because admitting they KNOW such things displays the folly of their professions of faith i.e. agnostic/atheist

I've graciously given you the definition of truth & would gladly give one for logic. For the sake of the reader if not for you. However you are insincere & can't seem to progress through our debates always returning to previously destroyed arguments. like an 18 year old stuck in 5th grade asking the same questions year after year. it has become a vexation for the reader!

You KNOW the definition of these things sir.
It is ironically how you have earned your weed money. Yet you profess to not believe in its existence!

Which is why I'm taking my friends advice & leaving you to your filth & folly for now.

When I ignore you going forward please take it personally.
I mean, I love you but for my own sake I gotta kick you out of class.

Come back next year when your sincere & sober & we'll try 5th grade again.

rfenst Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
Dg west deptford wrote:
Ugh not this again.

The guy who doesn't believe in universal unchanging logic wants to have a rational debate which requires logic to prove anything.

It's a circular trap of fools.

I was enjoying Robert & Brew for change. They seem much brighter than you pinky

Ben is very bright; brighter than me and much of my family and friends.
bgz Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
This is how it is with squirmy Truth deniers. They need a definition for truth & logic.
Their worldview is so quickly reduced to absurdity they need knowledge on things they KNOW they KNOW. because admitting they KNOW such things displays the folly of their professions of faith i.e. agnostic/atheist

I've graciously given you the definition of truth & would gladly give one for logic. For the sake of the reader if not for you. However you are insincere & can't seem to progress through our debates always returning to previously destroyed arguments. like an 18 year old stuck in 5th grade asking the same questions year after year. it has become a vexation for the reader!

You KNOW the definition of these things sir.
It is ironically how you have earned your weed money. Yet you profess to not believe in its existence!

Which is why I'm taking my friends advice & leaving you to your filth & folly for now.

When I ignore you going forward please take it personally.
I mean, I love you but for my own sake I gotta kick you out of class.

Come back next year when your sincere & sober & we'll try 5th grade again.



Antisocial personality disorder all over this post.

Narcissists always think they are right even when presented evidence to the contrary... they share the trait with sociopaths.

If you notice... I'm not the one making claims here. At all... I'm simply questioning yours.

If you notice how triggered you get when I question your claims... I guess there it is isn't it... I get kicks from watching you get triggered.

Now I know you are not going to actually ignore me... or block me... so I know you'll at the very least read this.

By all means... please, destroy another one of my "arguments".
HockeyDad Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,128
On a brighter note, with this new Texas abortion law perhaps many Californians who fled to Texas will now flee and colonize some other state where they can get their constitutionally mandated abortions.

California will begin offering free abortions to any Texans as a coupon if you book a three night stay at a participating hotel. It will be sponsored by the tourism bureau.
bgz Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
rfenst wrote:
Ben is very bright; brighter than me and much of my family and friends.


I appreciate the kind words Robert, but I don't think DG puts much weight in the words of non-believers... pretty sure he considers me to be unintelligent... which I find hilarious.
azrolator Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2021
Posts: 1
As George Carlin said, pre-born, you're fine. Pre-school, you're fucked! Modern forced-birtherism in a nutshell.
HockeyDad Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,128
Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California is not pleased with this new Texas law.

“Many Black, Latino, Indigenous and people of color, those with low incomes, and people in rural areas will face the greatest barriers to abortion access under this unconstitutional law.”


That pretty much sums it up.
bgz Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Guns and abortions... all fluff...

Meaningless issues. There's too much precedent.

Anything out of line generally gets shutdown.
RayR Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,884
bgz wrote:
Guns and abortions... all fluff...

Meaningless issues. There's too much precedent.

Anything out of line generally gets shutdown.


F*ck precedents. The SOTUS refused to hear the challenge to the new Texas law by the Texas abortion providers.

Does this effectively nullify Roe v. Wade and affirm that the states have the constitutional right to regulate abortions as they see fit and not the federal government as that idiot Biden thinks?

Guns and abortions are meaningful issues when it comes to trying to save the constitutional republic from the left authoritarian nationalists.
rfenst Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
RayR wrote:
F*ck precedents. The SOTUS refused to hear the challenge to the new Texas law by the Texas abortion providers. False. They merely declined to hear the case at this time because the lower federal court(s) weren't through with it. It was a decision based on procedure, not merit
Does this effectively nullify Roe v. Wade and affirm that the states have the constitutional right to regulate abortions as they see fit and not the federal government as that idiot Biden thinks? No.

Guns and abortions are meaningful issues when it comes to trying t o save the constitutional republic from the left authoritarian nationalists. Whatever...


Having clarified the above, Roe v. Wade could be in trouble- as it always is. There is another similar case the Court has already agreed to hear during the upcoming term. The SCOTUS may rule in that case alone. Or, it might add Texas to the case and decide both at once, so to speak.
RayR Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,884
Well Robert, without any weaselly lawyer talk, in your professional opinion is Texas on the right side of the Constitution, or aren't they?
rfenst Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
RayR wrote:
Well Robert, without any weaselly lawyer talk, in your professional opinion is Texas on the right side of the Constitution, or aren't they?

Only the nine robed geniuses can decide that. But, intellectually I believe that the Texas law violates R v. W standards.
Smooth light Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Did I hear that right we can abort anyone under 18, same as in the clinic , it just took longer to figure it out if their life is worth living.(victor)

And we get to kill their parents for murder, go figure that out. Just back to situational ethics again.😴
Brewha Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,170
Dg west deptford wrote:
Without God as a necessary starting point, you can't know anything. - epistemology 101

I guess that's why you put "know" in quotes

Very good Brew! You're more clever than some here.

However I "know" you "know" things to be true. So I "know" you "know" & are not agnostic- without knowledge.

Very good Brew!
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge

That sir is conjecture that is by no means demonstrated. However you have every right to believe it. Despite that it fully flies in the face of epistemology.

As an agnostic, I believe that some things are unknowable.
Just let that soak in for a moment…

But no - fear is not the beginning of knowledge.
It is the beginning of incontinence.

rfenst Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
RayR wrote:
F*ck precedents. The SOTUS refused to hear the challenge to the new Texas law by the Texas abortion providers.

Does this effectively nullify Roe v. Wade and affirm that the states have the constitutional right to regulate abortions as they see fit and not the federal government as that idiot Biden thinks?

Guns and abortions are meaningful issues when it comes to trying to save the constitutional republic from the left authoritarian nationalists.


Texas’s Abortion Law Blunder
The Supreme Court was right not to interfere for now, but the statute won’t survive scrutiny on the merits.

WSJ Editorial Board

America is back fighting its endless legal war over abortion. A new front opened late Wednesday when five Justices issued an unsigned opinion declining to block a Texas law banning abortion after six weeks. Cue the hysterics about the end of abortion rights. But this law is a misfire even if you oppose abortion, and neither side should be confident the law will be upheld.

For starters, the Texas statute clearly violates the Court’s Roe v. Wade (1973) and Casey (1992) precedents by making abortion illegal during the first trimester without exceptions for rape or incest—and it does so in a slippery way to duck federal judicial review.

Most laws delegate enforcement to public officials. This one delegates exclusive enforcement to private citizens, who are authorized to sue anyone who “aids or abets” an abortion after six weeks. Citizens who prevail in their civil lawsuits are entitled to at least $10,000 per abortion along with legal costs.

The law sets an awful precedent that conservatives should hate. Could California allow private citizens to sue individuals for hate speech? Or New York deputize private lawsuits against gun owners?

Texas argues that abortion providers don’t have standing to challenge the law because the state isn’t enforcing it and neither at this point is any private citizen. Thus there is no case or controversy, which is what courts are supposed to settle. This is technically correct and it is why the five Justices declined to enjoin the law.

“Federal courts enjoy the power to enjoin individuals tasked with enforcing laws, not the laws themselves,” says their unsigned opinion, citing the Court’s recent decision in California v. Texas (2021). In that case a 7-2 majority dismissed Texas’s ObamaCare challenge after finding the Court lacked jurisdiction to hear the case since the feds weren’t enforcing the individual mandate.

Justices Samuel Alito and Neil Gorsuch wrote in a fierce dissent that the Court—read Chief Justice John Roberts —had applied standing principles selectively. They’re right. And some conservative Justices may now enjoy hoisting the Chief on his own standing petard. But their unsigned opinion suggests they also have doubts about the Texas law.

Abortion providers have “raised serious questions regarding the constitutionality of the Texas law at issue. But their application also presents complex and novel antecedent procedural questions on which they have not carried their burden,” the five Justices write. “We stress that we do not purport to resolve definitively any jurisdictional or substantive claim in the applicants’ lawsuit” and the Court’s order “is not based on any conclusion about the constitutionality of Texas’s law.” Texas state courts may also have a say, the Justices add.

The Chief writes in a dissent, joined by Justices Elena Kagan and Stephen Breyer, that he would grant the providers “preliminary relief” to “preserve the status quo ante” so “the courts may consider whether a state can avoid responsibility for its laws in such a manner.” But the dissenting Justices acknowledge that Texas may be correct that “existing doctrines preclude judicial intervention.”

What they want is to issue what is essentially an advisory opinion in the form of an injunction. This is not the role of the courts. In any case, a provider who gets sued under the Texas law will undoubtedly seek to dismiss the lawsuit under the Court’s abortion precedents. Then the law will be properly enjoined.

Meantime, Texas Republicans have handed Democrats a political grenade to hurt the anti-abortion cause. Pro-life groups have spent nearly 50 years arguing that abortion is a political question to be settled in the states by public debate. Yet now in Texas they want to use the courts via civil litigation to limit abortion.

[h]Democrats are already having a field day with the Texas law. “This law is so extreme it does not even allow for exceptions in the case of rape or incest,” President Biden said in a statement. Look for Democrats to raise the political pressure even higher on the Supreme Court this coming term when it hears a Mississippi case that bans abortion after 15 weeks. The Justices could uphold the Mississippi law by narrowing Casey’s “undue burden” standard. But the left will flog the Texas law and proclaim that upholding the Mississippi law is a fast track to overturning Roe.

Sometimes we wonder if Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton is a progressive plant. His ill-conceived legal attack against Obama Care backfired on Republicans in last year’s election and lost at the Supreme Court. Now he and his Texas mates are leading with their chins on abortion. How about thinking first?
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