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OPINION: Texas Has Cleared a Path to the End of Roe v. Wade
bgz Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
So to be clear... we ain't going to do anything about it till someone is stupid enough to try and use it.

At least that's what it sounds like to me.
rfenst Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
bgz wrote:
So to be clear... we ain't going to do anything about it till someone is stupid enough to try and use it.

At least that's what it sounds like to me.

No. They intentionally skipped over the federal court system protocols and instead went directly to SCOTUS.

Only way they can do that and win is iff they can easily show SCOTUS that a federal right would be impaired and that they have an overwhelming chance of winning at trial and in federal appeals court. It's a very, very, very high legal bar to jump, so to speak.

So to be clear Scotus said: We ain't doing anything until you go thru the proper channels to get here and you didn't show us you would ultimately win anyway. So, go back and try to get here thru the proper channels.
bgz Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Very good summary. Seems to have the overall tone I was thinking though... like the tone of gtfo here with that sh*t type tone.
Smooth light Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
It's not that it's unknowable, his has not reveal it to us yet.
Smooth light Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
It's not that it's unknowable, but God has not reveal it yet.
RayR Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
To get away from all the weaselly lawyer talk and strike at the root you have to get to the roots of how far off the rails this monstrosity collectively called "the federal government" has become from its founding and in this case how it led to the wrongly decided Roe v. Wade by the robed geniuses on the Supreme Court, a decision not based on constitutional principles, but rather on a social and political construct pulled out of thin air by the Roe court.

A lot has been written about this, much of which you never find from the Lying Media Scum.
This article is something really that good at exposing the truth of the matter:

Judicial Review? No. Nullification
By Earl StarbuckFebruary 22, 2021

Quote:
“Acts of congress, to be binding, must be made pursuant to the constitution; otherwise they are not laws, but a mere nullity.” -St. George Tucker

“There is no danger I apprehend so much as the consolidation of our government by the noiseless, and therefore unalarming instrumentality of the Supreme Court.” -Thomas Jefferson

As a pro-life Jeffersonian, I am constantly frustrated by the endless line of pro-life activists who talk about the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade.[1] There are multiple reasons this irks me. For one thing, the Supreme Court will never overturn Roe because its members are dedicated to the preservation of precedent. Add on top of that the absurd kangaroo courts that Senate confirmation hearings have become, with their character assassinations and incessant prattling about the vital importance of Roe, and it’s clear that the potential Justices are being reminded not to tread on that particular landmine if they wish to be confirmed. The brutal character assassination of Robert Bork is ample evidence of this, as are the farcical witch-hunts against Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh.

My other objections to this pro-life reliance on Federal Courts are constitutional and practical. To begin with, accepting the Incorporation Doctrine (the legal justification for Roe and its descendants) means accepting the idea that the 14th Amendment incorporates the Bill of Rights against the State governments, including the implied right to privacy and the subsequent right to obtain an abortion. The legal and historical problem with this is that the Bill of Rights was never intended by the Founding Fathers to be applied to the States.[2] There were two primary arguments against the Bill of Rights. The first of these (advanced by men like Roger Sherman, Hugh Williamson, and Theophilus Parsons) was that, since the States already had their declarations/bills of Rights, and since Congress had been given no authority to infringe upon them, a Federal Bill of Rights would be redundant and unnecessary, and might even undermine the sovereignty and authority of the States.

More...

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/judicial-review-no-nullification/


bgz Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
You don't sound like a libertarian... you sound as if you're mad that the robed geniuses ended up on the side of liberty.

Maybe it's not everyone's liberty you are interested in... maybe you're only interested in your own.
RayR Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
bgz wrote:
You don't sound like a libertarian... you sound as if you're mad that the robed geniuses ended up on the side of liberty.

Maybe it's not everyone's liberty you are interested in... maybe you're only interested in your own.


Ben, you are so full of chit.💩💩💩
I know from the very short amount of time that I posted to the time you replied that you didn't even go to the link to read the article, let alone try to reflect and understand it, and yet you couldn't resist jumping right in and trolling.

Has anybody called you an idiot yet today?
bgz Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
You're right... I didn't "click" the link... but I did read what you posted... which was sufficient to start properly trolling you this morning.

bgz Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
And you're even going to try to steal my bit...

Man, no shame... get your own material.
Brewha Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
bgz wrote:
And you're even going to try to steal my bit...

Man, no shame... get your own material.

That’s what you get for feeding the monkeys.

I just want his mom to kill his Xbox access so he can’t post any more.
Parents these days…..
bgz Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Ya...

I should buy my kids some 3090s... I mean, I would if I could find them.

Xboxes are garbage.
rfenst Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Is high court ready to overturn Roe?

By Noah Feldman
Bloomberg Opinion

A day after the Constitution-flouting Texas anti-abortion law went into effect, a divided Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that it won’t block the law before it can grapple with a concrete case that tests it in practice. The five most conservative justices agreed to an unsigned, one-and-a-half-page opinion that said the law might or might not be unconstitutional, but that given its unusual form, which delegates enforcement to private citizens instead of state authorities, it was too legally complicated to issue an emergency injunction blocking the law. In four separate dissents, the three liberals plus Chief Justice John Roberts said the law should have been blocked anyway.

Every nonlawyer on the planet — and no doubt a few lawyers, too — is likely to read this outcome as prefiguring a 5-4 vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, the 1973 precedent that made abortion a constitutional right. Later this year, the court will address a Mississippi anti-abortion law that lacks the cleverly diabolical enforcement mechanism of the Texas law but is equally unconstitutional.

Indeed, the day after the law went into effect and before the Supreme Court ruled, many nonlawyers who were so unfamiliar with court procedures that they didn’t know it would eventually issue a ruling on the Texas law had already concluded that they knew how the upcoming Mississippi case would come out.

That’s a possible interpretation of the latest opinion, to be sure. But the opinion for the five conservatives explicitly denied it. “We stress,” said the justices, “that we do not purport to resolve definitively any jurisdictional or substantive claim in the applicants’ lawsuit.” That’s lawyer-speak for saying both that the law could still be unconstitutional and that there might still be some procedural way to block its operation. For good measure, the opinion said the challengers “have raised serious questions regarding the constitutionality of the Texas law.”

These formulations indicate that at least some of the five conservatives who joined it wanted to take pains not to send the message that Roe v. Wade is sure to be overturned. What is less clear is whether anyone on the political battlefield wants to hear that message.

The pro-choice camp will doubtless spend the months until the court term ends in June whipping up public sentiment, either in the hopes of changing the outcome or turning any decision overturning Roe into the impetus for packing the court or producing a heavy Democratic turnout in the 2022 midterm elections. The pro-life camp has an equal interest in making the overturning of Roe seem inevitable.

Consequently, neither side cares much for dispassionate analysis. But the fact remains that the majority in the Texas ruling did not address the underlying issues, so it would be premature to predict the outcome in the Mississippi case based on it.

Taken strictly on its own terms, the opinion made a point that is incorrect in my view, but that is legally plausible. That is that there’s no clear precedent for courts to block in advance the operation of a law that creates a civil penalty — not a criminal violation — to be applied by the courts after private lawsuits by private parties. Ordinarily, when a criminal law is obviously unconstitutional, the courts issue an order to the state attorney general not to enforce it. Such an order would not have any effect in this case, since the Texas attorney general isn’t empowered to enforce the law.

The better view is that the court should have been creative and found a way to block the law anyway. In his brief dissent, joined by Justices Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan, Roberts said that he would have issued a preliminary injunction “to preserve the status quo ante” — without the law in force — and then allow the lower courts to address with more leisure the question of whether there is a legal way for the courts to block the operation of law like the Texas one. Roberts’ dissent was written so that one of the conservative justices might have been tempted to join it. Obviously, it did not work.

The other dissents each chose a slightly different emphasis. Breyer focused on the principle that under the 1803 Marbury v. Madison landmark ruling that established the court’s power to rule on a law’s constitutionality, there is supposed to be a remedy to defend every right — a point with which I wholeheartedly agree, having made it myself in a column on the topic in May. The idea is that it shouldn’t matter who is enforcing the law; if the underlying law is unconstitutional and injures basic rights, the courts must have the power to block its operation.

Kagan said that the court was rewarding Texas for its scheme, and she criticized the way the court’s so-called shadow docket — cases responding to requests for emergency action — was becoming increasingly important despite the opinions being issued quickly and without oral argument or time for consideration.

Justice Sonia Sotomayor, the only liberal who didn’t join Roberts’ opinion, went further. She denounced the law as a “breathtaking act of defiance” by Texas and made sure to be clear that the law itself is unconstitutional, which it surely is under the court’s abortion precedents. Presumably she chose not to join the Roberts opinion because she did not like the implicit suggestion that the court should spend some time actually considering the question of constitutionality.

The upshot is that we know the three liberals plus Roberts will eventually vote to strike down the Texas law. But we still don’t know how all the conservative justices will vote in the Mississippi case. And we won’t know before the end of June 2022, when the decision will probably come down.
HockeyDad Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,118
I’m gonna read the unhighlighted stuff for the sake of time.
Smooth light Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Ain't none of them not know about birth control.

How do you make a whore mone?














Don't pay her.🤣
rfenst Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
RayR wrote:
a decision not based on constitutional principles, but rather on a social and political construct pulled out of thin air by the Roe court.

Totally true.

That has been happening since the Court's inception.

It is a political and social fact that the SCOTUS doesn't strictly follow the Constitution.

Get used to it. That is just the way it is, for better or worse.
RayR Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
Robert, I see we agree that the SOTUS has gone rogue much starting with the Marshall court. The other branches of the federal government I would also add have shown little regard for the system of federalism and strict adherence to the Constitution when it comes to their political whims and predilections.

For you to say "Get used to it. That is just the way it is, for better or worse." is to admit the Constitution is not the law of the land, the end of federalism and we are actually living in a failed republic, under an oligarchy that makes up the rules as they go along as often as they can get away with it. I see no better that has come of it and the worse is yet to come if they continue to get away with their treacherous agendas.

James Madison, who advocated for the ratification of the Constitution tried to ease the suspicions of the states that it would create a general government that would be too powerful and one that would override the sovereignty of the states: wrote in Federalist No. 45:

"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the Federal Government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State"

That's the way the Constitution was sold to the states but those that had their mistrust were ultimately proven right.







.
rfenst Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
RayR wrote:
For you to say "Get used to it. That is just the way it is, for better or worse." is to admit the Constitution is not the law of the land, ... [and that we live] under an oligarchy that makes up the rules as they go along as often as they can get away with it.


Yeah, kind of.
rfenst Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
"Voters’ opinions about state laws, however, have changed some. Overall, 32% said the laws should be stricter, down from 41% in the Feb. 2019 UT/TT Poll. And the number who said the laws on abortion should be less strict rose to 37% from 32% two years ago. Another 18% want to leave the state’s abortion laws as they are."

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/02/texas-gambling-abortion-marijuana-confederate/

"A June 2019 University of Texas poll found that 45% of Texas voters consider themselves “pro-life” versus 39% “pro-choice.” This past February, the same pollster found that “pro-choice” voters now held a slight plurality of 41% versus 40% saying “pro-life.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/09/06/the_texas_abortion_gambit_is_politically_insane_146360.


I'd bet Texans aren't in love with the new heartbeat ban...
Dg west deptford Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Huh? I would've thunk the pro- murder #% would be higher.



Broad is the way & all
rfenst Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Survey: Two Thirds of College-Educated Workers May Avoid Texas Because Of Abortion Ban

Texas employers may lose skilled workers as a result of the restrictive abortion law that went into effect on Wednesday. According to a new poll by Perry Undem, 66% of college-educated workers say they would not take a job in a state that prohibits abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, as Texas now does after the U.S. Supreme Court failed to intervene on Senate Bill 8. Roughly half of respondents said they would consider moving out of a state that passed such restrictions.

More than 85% of abortions happen after the six-week mark, so the Texas law amounts to a near-complete ban on the procedure. Along with banning abortions at a point when most women do not even know they are pregnant, SB 8 makes no exception for rape or incest, and it also allows private citizens to sue those who perform, “aid or abet” an abortion. The legislation imposes the harshest restrictions of any state, setting the scene for a challenge to the Supreme Court’s landmark Roe v. Wade ruling.

As echoed in other polls, the majority of respondents (80%) said that they do not want the Roe v. Wade ruling overturned (though polling did not dive into the intricacies of possible limitations to the law), and the same proportion said they feel that access to abortion is an “important” part of women’s rights and gender equity. PerryUndem conducted the survey on behalf of the Tara Health Foundation, which aims to improve the health of women and girls, with support from the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Philanthropies. Researchers surveyed a national sample of 1,804 adults between the ages of 18 and 64 who have a college degree and are either working full time or looking for full-time work. The survey was conducted between August 13 and August 26.

Three quarters of all the women surveyed said SB 8 would discourage them from working in Texas; 73% said they wouldn’t even apply for a job in a state that passed a comparable ban. Among men, 58% said a state’s near-total abortion ban would discourage them from working there and 53% said they would not apply for jobs there. Concerns were especially high among younger workers: 73% of all Gen-Zers, those age 24 and younger, said they would not take a job in a state with a hostile reproductive health environment; 69% of Millennials said the same.

Those findings may not bode well for employers who are already coping with a turnover tsunami and Covid-related employment changes that have created some 10 million job openings. And a near-ban on abortion could bring more challenges to women who have been especially hard-hit by the pandemic....
Smooth light Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
They still got the mind set of, you rape them will scrape them, very sad indeed😭.

Life is so precious....we should could use the future tax payers at the least.
rfenst Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Texas governor Greg Abbott’s approval rating falls amid anger over new abortion law and Covid spread
‘Governance is tough, and he’s the face of governance in the state right now’


Texas governor Greg Abbott’s popularity has taken a hit after the state passed a restrictive new abortion law and as it grapples with spiralling Covid cases.

A survey from The Texas Policy Project at the University of Texas at Austin found just 42 per cent of Texans approve of the direction the state is going in, Mr Abbott’s lowest approval rating since he was first elected in 2014.

A slim majority - 52 per cent - said the state was on the wrong path, the worst figure recorded by the institute since it started in 2008.

The University of Texas poll found Mr Abbott’s rating had fallen among registered Republicans (77 to 73 per cent) and Democrats (8 to 6 per cent).

The steepest drop came among independents, with just 30 per cent supporting Mr Abbott, compared to 41 per cent in June.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/greg-abbott-texas-abortion-approval-ratings-b1915301.html
rfenst Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott slammed for not understanding 'pregnancy or periods or facts' after abortion ban comments


Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) angered quite a few doctors and pundits on Tuesday, after misleadingly claiming that his state's extreme new abortion ban still allows rape or incest victims "at least six weeks" to get an abortion.

The highly-criticized law, which went into effect last week, criminalizes and thus effectively bans abortions at the (incredibly early) six week mark, and makes no exceptions in cases of rape or incest.

Abbott told a reporter that the law does not force a rape or incest victim to carry a pregnancy to term because "obviously it provides at least six weeks for a person to be able to get an abortion." He went on to make clear that Texas will work "tirelessly" to make sure "we eliminate all rapists from the streets of Texas."
...

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/gov-abbott-abortion-bill-wont-force-rape-victims-to-have-babies-texas-will-eliminate-rapists/
Brewha Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
I heard that “Abbott” is transcode for pen15.
HockeyDad Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,118
All the Californians are going to pack out of Texas!
Brewha Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
Cowards!
HockeyDad Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,118
They need their abortions. As long as you can get someone to sign off on the patient's life or health is endangered we abort up to delivery day!
frankj1 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
he's going to eliminate all the rapists!
HockeyDad Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,118
frankj1 wrote:
he's going to eliminate all the rapists!


…and this outrages you?
izonfire Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
They weren't raped.
They were asking for it.

All of em...
bgz Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
frankj1 wrote:
he's going to eliminate all the rapists!


No, he meant to say get rid of all therapists.
frankj1 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
HockeyDad wrote:
…and this outrages you?

well played.
frankj1 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
bgz wrote:
No, he meant to say get rid of all therapists.

that was very izonfirey of you
bgz Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
frankj1 wrote:
that was very izonfirey of you


Doh... I stole a joke. The shame.
Whistlebritches Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
I've always held the belief that liberalism is a mental disorder.............if you are pro-abortion you fit into this caregory,but if you support abortion beyond the second trimester or right up til full term not only do you have a mental disorder but you are downright evil.
izonfire Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
^^^ What would you say about me knowing I strenuously and effluently support post-natal abortions???
rfenst Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
bgz wrote:
No, he meant to say get rid of all therapists.

Nice word-play.
rfenst Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Whistlebritches wrote:
I've always held the belief that liberalism is a mental disorder.............if you are pro-abortion you fit into this caregory,but if you support abortion beyond the second trimester or right up til full term not only do you have a mental disorder but you are downright evil.


I sometimes belief the same of some "conservatives." Seriously. LOL. Anyhow, I am pro-choice and I do not believe in abortion after the second trimester or healthy viability, whichever comes first. Thankfully, neither I nor anyone I have been/am close to has ever had to consider the matter (or at least not tell me about it). Thank God I have never been in any way a part of such a unhappy situation...
ZRX1200 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,577
I’m sure abortion law was the last straw of those who supported Abbott…..

Besides this is just common sense abortion law, it’s for the children, and even if it just saves one life it’s worth it.

Right?
rfenst Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
ZRX1200 wrote:
I’m sure abortion law was the last straw of those who supported Abbott…..

Besides this is just common sense abortion law, it’s for the children, and even if it just saves one life it’s worth it.

Right?

No. It is all subjective.
Whistlebritches Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
izonfire wrote:
^^^ What would you say about me knowing I strenuously and effluently support post-natal abortions???



What would I say............I hope you're just yanking my chain.I find it quite difficult to believe anyone could make a justifiable argument for this stance
RayR Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
Whistlebritches wrote:
What would I say............I hope you're just yanking my chain.I find it quite difficult to believe anyone could make a justifiable argument for this stance


Not so difficult to believe. Here in New York State, infanticide is legal up until birth in many cases. I think the next progressive step will be to make being pro-life a hate crime.
ZRX1200 Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,577
A lawyer saying the law is subjective is the most believable thing I’ve seen this month.
Smooth light Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Man I wish I could hate, but gave it up years ago, love is the drug for me now.
Brewha Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
bgz wrote:
No, he meant to say get rid of all therapists.

LOL

"Let It Snow"
Brewha Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
ZRX1200 wrote:
I’m sure abortion law was the last straw of those who supported Abbott…..

Besides this is just common sense abortion law, it’s for the children, and even if it just saves one life it’s worth it.

Right?

Uh, no - but thanks for playing!
bgz Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Whistlebritches wrote:
I've always held the belief that liberalism is a mental disorder.............if you are pro-abortion you fit into this caregory,but if you support abortion beyond the second trimester or right up til full term not only do you have a mental disorder but you are downright evil.


I'm pro abortion, most really religious people would probably consider me to be evil.

We don't see the world the same way.

Doesn't mean I'm immoral or otherwise unethical.

It means I don't try to constrain my moral code into the confines of some ancient book.

Nor do I use said ancient book to show that my moral code is superior to someone else's...

So I hope those who hide behind the book... pointing... proclaiming evil, I hope you guys are right...

I will truly enjoy seeing you in hell >:)



ZRX1200 Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,577
It’s ok, I wouldn’t want to acknowledge the hypocrisy either……
bgz Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
On another note, skimmed through the thread again.

One of Robert's mentioned that most abortions happen after that 6 weeks because most women don't even know they are pregnant till after that time... thus effectively banning abortions in Texas.

You guys praising the governor of Texas applaud that?

Why not push for burqa's or something to prevent yourselves from raping women. Or make them cover everything from head to toe so you guys can better control your temptations so you don't accidentally rape them.

Better yet, why don't you cut off their cl*ts so they do not attempt to seduce your friends to prevent you from having to honor kill them.
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