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We've had this conversation... you're unqualified to quiz me.

Sorry...

Yeah, got it. You are super wicked way more smarter than others... clearly.

Children were being raped on the regular in those 2 cities. Violence & perversion were at such an extreme that even your darkened mind would demand justice for it. & Yes, you would be pissed!

You don't understand Justice yet. It's an immutable law.

The old covenant & it's stories are signposts as directional & warnings are to a highway.

Hoping that helps Brew, thanks for asking. & Forgive my terrible example for such matters.
I do realize though that the concepts of Holiness, sinfulness & eternity are as yet beyond your comprehension.

Shalom

Either I've misrepresented myself or you take me wrong.
As I have no desire to judge individuals or sin.
I'm certainly not your judge.
I'm sure I'm personally more sinful than you Ben, so I certainly don't want to represent anything lofty or moral.

Does telling someone on a speeding highway the bridge is out ahead make them judgemental?

Or is it just the right thing to do? Maybe you're really advocating for live & let die?

You see, I almost drove off the cliff more than a few times.
I personally am thankful for the mercy of the wise who've warned me of the dangers that lie ahead.

A little taste of my axium stew for you today Ben,

We are created in God’s moral image. The law of God is not a set of rules which God arbitrarily imposes on mankind. The law of God is a reflection of God’s moral character. The law is ‘who God is.’ God is perfect, therefore His law is also perfect. Since we were created in God’s moral image, the requirements of His law have been “written on our hearts.” We therefore know right from wrong and are to do right to reflect God’s character. We shouldn’t steal, for instance, not because stealing is bad (which it is), but because God is not a thief and we were created in His image.
(Lusting after a maiden who's not your wife is stealing)

Rather than criticize the only possible source of fairness for His perceived lack of fairness, we should take into consideration how terrible lying about God must really be to warrant an eternity in Hell no matter which sin we commit.

Thanks for listening Ben, & my apologies for any judgemental misrepresentation.

I disagree with you on the semantics of it all.

I believe God was created in our Image and was provided a set of rules that were very specific to problems in the day they were created...

Hmm, maybe dudes killing each other for sleeping with each other's wives was a major problem back then... just maybe?

Not coveting my neighbors' possessions stop stealing each other's ****... maybe... just maybe?

No, I believe God was created to be "perfect" as we perceived perfect to be... back then.

Back then, negative reinforcement was the defacto standard... so I think that's why God is such a d*ck... IMO, far from perfect... like not even close.

A perfect God to me is one who does not get in the way... one who does not interfere... one who does not care what you are, because you are what you are... why hate yourself because of it. Embrace it...

A perfect God is one who does not demand that you grovel at his feet. One that does not threaten you with eternal damnation. One that lives and lets live.

No... I do not see your God as perfect... I see him as a vile monster created for a different age.

I don't have a God...

I was talking about his God... and I'm assuming yours.

Rainman is religious, who woulda thunk.

Let me explain it for that autist brain of yours...

God was created back then... to be perfect in the eyes of those that created him... they created him in a way that proclaimed that we were created in his image (but really he was created in ours... we're really not that special).

Fast forward to now... I don't see the being those ancient goat f*ckers created as being a perfect being, I see it as a vile, narcissistic and highly petty and spiteful monster. Yes... I called it an it. In today's age, we don't assume the gender.

There, rephrased it, hopefully that explains it better.

Well your thoughts are yours, not mine. My opinion, God (or a higher power, whatever you chose it to be) was not created by man. One persons Higher Power (I chose to call it God) may not be the same supreme being you chose or don't chose. It doesn't make mine any better or worse than the other.

Native Americans who you share blood with have their own spirits or supreme beings that they look up to or accept in their life. Buddhists have theirs, Christians have theirs... Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Confucianism, Christianity, Taoism, Judaism... all have their own belief in a higher power.

If you boil it down and distill any of these faiths and cast off the extremes... there is a common ground.

On a scientific point of view, yeah physics and numbers can describe the world we live in. Physics and numbers are mans creation. It's our way to make sense of what we see, what we know, how we can describe things in a tangible way in attempts to understand the world around us. The more we learn, the more questions we find and the more we want to figure out what and why. Something is behind those numbers.

What it is, I have no clue. I'm pretty sure us mortals will never find out. Maybe when we die we find the answer. Maybe when we die, we just rot away...

Well, jump on the herf, about to have a smoke, we can get all spiritual and sh*t.

Maybe later. It's almost prime time.

Long live the Spaghetti Monster and followers. Best idea yet for religion and God.

Dg - kind of you to explain your point of view.

I do comprehend the concepts you mentioned. But their meaning is different for both of us because we live in different worlds. In your world things are explained, finite. Purpose and moral absolutes are well defined. In my world truth is mutable and there is no explanation beyond what we find for ourselves.

Yeah, MTG is just too funny.

Sad that this is what it has come to in our country. But I still have to laugh.

Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those feel…..

Sounds like something a Christian would say.

Meh... if I get smited because I choose not to believe, so be it.

You’re going to want some pop tarts after you finish that bowl….

I knew the counselor agreed with the Wonderful Counselor on at least a few points.

I knew you were the brighter of the pro abortion debaters because of this fact.

I also know you & I agree whole heartedly on more matters than you'd be willing to admit.

Good stuff
The questions are the issue
As a point of philosophy I agree with you that a "truth" must be true.
You described a lie that one thought was incontrovertible.
But it is known to be controvertible according to His word.

Merely knowing that there is absolute truth tells you that deception was involved in such an observable reality.

Your world is true. I agree

So my question is how do you know that?

I know the answer to that question.
I know why you're able to know things to be true.
Do you?

The part of town and state I live in is very heavily Adventist.

My wife works for one of their skilled-care facilities. They run the best and biggest hospitals in my part of the state. I have had about 10 different Adventist families as neighbors in my small neighborhood. They are honest, good, generous, educated, hard-working people, and fit the bill of several other compliments, but this should be enough:

They are a TRUE RELIGION, NOT A CULT! They are a good people.

Sooo since we are going all religious and stuff and talking about some off shoots, I'll toss my hat in the ring...

My Mom is a Christian Scientist. My Dad is Lutheran. It really doesn't matter to me.. the underlying principles are the same. My Mom is retired but works with her church, keeps their financials, keeps their reading room open and stuff. If you have a Christian Science Church in your area, most likely they have a reading room. A library of books that is open to all that want to come in.

Me, my brother and sister attended church every Sunday at the First Church of Christian Science in our hometown (if any town or city has a Christian Science church the first one established is always called the First Church). It's a branch of Christianity. Ya might read some stuff on extremist of Christian Science, I was not brought up that way. Although my Mom is a devote Christian Scientist, she has a good head on her shoulders and big heart. Not an extreme. Doesn't care what faith you believe in, just have faith.

I'm not into organized religion but Christian Science is kinda cool on how they set up things. They (we) follow the the Bible both Old and New Testaments along with the writings of Mary Baker Eddy. The Mother Church (their Vatican) is located in Boston. If you ever come to Boston, I'd recommend paying a visit there. It's pretty cool.

Around Christmas or Thanksgiving time, in Green Bay they usually have a bus tour thing. It's sponsored buy the local churches and they all work together to keep it alive as an annual thing.

You go from one church to another, spend about 15 min at each one where they tell you about their church, their faith, history of their congregation and the building they use... and so on. It's kind of like bar hopping though downtown Green Bay but visiting local places of worship... Christian Science Church, Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Synagogue, Non-denominational... It's pretty cool.

^ should've quoted rfenst
That was in reply to him.
My bad

Dg what does your often contradictory bible say about cigar smoking ?

I grew up just a couple of miles from the Mary Baker Eddy House near Boston College on Beacon Street where Newton, Brookline and Boston meet.

I'm a self learning robot... I don't need no stinking instruction manual.

Tobaccy wasn't known in Biblical times, tobaccy wasn't even introduced from the Americas to Europe until the sixteen century.

So how could the Bible say anything about cigar smoking dummy?

Some great Science coming out of the creation institute & affiliates

As for baccy in the bible Rays right of course however 1 Cor.6:12 loosely fits the bill.

As it encapsulates all things enjoyed by the body that can be addicting & therefore unhealthy when abused.

I know it for the many same reasons you do.
A preponderance of the evidence at hand. Intuitive insight and the courage to believe what known facts tell us. And yet, and predictively, people find different truths. Such is the world we share.

However, It is my profound believe that some things are unknowable. I believe I could be wrong. And so my view of others is tempered with that belief. Yet in the face of uncertainty we must act.


There are many types of truth.
Objective = can be demonstrated - incontrovertible.
Normative = what most people believe to be true - might or might not be, but we all kinda think so.
Subjective = personal assessment of the matter at hand - controversial.

God is arguably in the second or third category. But not the first.

If one could prove gods existence, what need would we have of faith?
In that, faith is it’s own end.
For some the world is nothing without faith. For others it is everything.


Vaya con Dios -