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Last post 2 years ago by Smooth light. 184 replies replies.
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Alright DG... Let me see the axioms.
Brewha Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
Smooth light wrote:
He gave us the choice,he wants family not robots. Robots can't love, it's only law and death, without mercy and Grace.

Some have climbed the ladder of success, only to find that they had it leaning against the wrong wall !!!

Contradictory Bible ha, guess it would be since you can't follow the time line and context.They put the chapter and verse numbers to help you out, but no you don't need them cause you have already made up mind not to read the owner manual.

If a frog had wings it wouldn't bump his azz so much.


So if Jesus did not believe in himself, would it be blasphemy?
Dg west deptford Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Fascinating

What's an incontrovertible truth?
Objective, demonstrably speaking.
The other 2 you mentioned - no one cares.

Again the correct question is the issue.

How do you know such a truth to be true?
bgz Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
Fascinating

What's an incontrovertible truth?
Objective, demonstrably speaking.
The other 2 you mentioned - no one cares.

Again the correct question is the issue.

How do you know such a truth to be true?


The 2 other truths are the most relevant to this conversation... and those are the ones you claim no one cares about?

Your god is not objectively true. It's just not. <--- that's a period.

So in order for it to be a "truth" it has to be one of the other two.

It's in the same category of truths as the multiverse... but at least there's solid science and actual logic behind that one.

Anyway... to answer your question.

Empirical evidence, actual evidence, and many people over time trying to prove the findings false.

Given enough time... something can be considered objectively true.

Even then... sometimes you have to give it bounds... like the speed of causality is the speed of light in our universe... which from what we can tell is objectively true... which may or may not be true in another universe.

Or the sun appears to rise in the east when on our planet, where we have defined east (which is true because we defined it as such, and we have defined the sun rising as becoming visible along the horizon).
tonygraz Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,173
Dg may answer you tomorrow, I think he's busy abusing a cigar. (MACS' comment about clippers may have profoundly affected him).
Smooth light Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Still got that ladder against the wrong wall I see.
Dg west deptford Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Tony's right I may have to wait for to tomorrow to answer brew because Benny's answering for him again.

I don't know about a clipper comment from mac's. I'll have to look it up after work.

Big day today.

Had to check in to say hello though.
Brewha Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
Dg west deptford wrote:
Fascinating

What's an incontrovertible truth?
Objective, demonstrably speaking.
The other 2 you mentioned - no one cares.

Again the correct question is the issue.

How do you know such a truth to be true?


Objective truths are those things that can be demonstrated with reasonable science by most anyone. Independently verifiable. Think physical laws. Like the laws of gravity.

The key here is the demonstrability of the truth and the fact that without reasonable exception it can be verified.

Objectively, water turns solid under a given combination of temperature and pressure. No need to debate - test it for yourself. That would be an objective truth.

People die. They may well go on to another existence, place, reality, dimension - but they got there by being dead.
Dg west deptford Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
That's beautiful Brew!
You believe in truth, knowledge & universal, unchanging, immaterial logic.

Bravo & welcome to basic reality!
You'd be amazed at how difficult that leap is for many well educated dopes.

Now how do you account for these invariant laws?

You may say I know A. Because of B. & I know B. because of C. & I know C. because of D. & on & on...

Where does that end?
Not with Z (just ask him)
An infinity of every known thing would be required to justify any knowledge at all.

As you & I are not all knowing. & Just one unknown issue could upend everything we think we know. How do we know things?

I'm not saying you can't know things like Ben does. I'm asking you how you account for such absolute/objective truth, knowledge & universal unchanging logic?

What's your reason for reason? You can't say seeing is believing because you've seen illusionists. The hand is quick. The eye not so much.

Maybe you're thinking-
Surely somewhere, sometime, a philosopher or scientist will come up with an explanation for truth, knowledge & logic apart from God.

Hoping that an alternate explanation for truth, knowledge, & universal, immaterial, unchanging logic can someday be found apart from God, is a blind leap of faith, or wishful thinking. Isn’t it interesting that this is exactly what professed unbelievers say about Believers?

Faith is not without reason. Faith is not above reason, or contrary to reason. In fact faith is demanded by reason. Everyone starts from faith, but not all admit it. Professed unbelievers say that they use reason as their starting point & not faith. We must ask though, what is their reason for trusting reason? The thing is, they don’t have a reason for trusting reason, they have a ‘blind faith' in reason.

I have more respect for fools who can admit as much.


So is 'blind faith' why you can know things brew?
Or is there a better reason for reason?

bgz Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Food for thought... I've probably searched for truth far more than you DG... you stopped at the Bible.
rfenst Online
#110 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
bgz wrote:
Food for thought... I've probably searched for truth far more than you DG... you stopped at the Bible.

That's some f'ing funny $hit there.
tonygraz Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,173
Dg west deptford wrote:
...
Surely somewhere, sometime, a philosopher or scientist will come up with an explanation for truth, knowledge & logic apart from God....


It has already happened thanks to Bobby Henderson.

Smooth light Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Still looking for the missing link in evolution too!

It's a lot easier to just go to MASTER, he started it.

It's so easy you can believe it. But you got to do it on his terms.
tonygraz Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,173
I heard that a lot of the pages in DG's bible are stuck together.
Brewha Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
Not sure I fully understand your questions.
but here goes -


Dg west deptford wrote:
That's beautiful Brew!
You believe in truth, knowledge & universal, unchanging, immaterial logic.

Bravo & welcome to basic reality!
You'd be amazed at how difficult that leap is for many well educated dopes.

Now how do you account for these invariant laws?
By observation and repeatable results

You may say I know A. Because of B. & I know B. because of C. & I know C. because of D. & on & on...

Where does that end?
Not with Z (just ask him)
An infinity of every known thing would be required to justify any knowledge at all.
Say what?

As you & I are not all knowing. & Just one unknown issue could upend everything we think we know. How do we know things?
Truth and knowledge are not static.

I'm not saying you can't know things like Ben does. I'm asking you how you account for such absolute/objective truth, knowledge & universal unchanging logic?
It is NOT absolute truth, it is Objective truth. The only absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth.

What's your reason for reason? You can't say seeing is believing because you've seen illusionists. The hand is quick. The eye not so much.
Brewha is lost now....

Maybe you're thinking-
Surely somewhere, sometime, a philosopher or scientist will come up with an explanation for truth, knowledge & logic apart from God.
No, not thinking that. God is not needed for truth, knowledge or logic.

Hoping that an alternate explanation for truth, knowledge, & universal, immaterial, unchanging logic can someday be found apart from God, is a blind leap of faith, or wishful thinking. Isn’t it interesting that this is exactly what professed unbelievers say about Believers?
Brewha is lost again...

Faith is not without reason. Faith is not above reason, or contrary to reason. In fact faith is demanded by reason. Everyone starts from faith, but not all admit it. Professed unbelievers say that they use reason as their starting point & not faith. We must ask though, what is their reason for trusting reason? The thing is, they don’t have a reason for trusting reason, they have a ‘blind faith' in reason.
Ok, I'm starting to get it...

I have more respect for fools who can admit as much.


So is 'blind faith' why you can know things brew?
Or is there a better reason for reason?
The Season???


Your statements seem predicated on a god being required for....thought? Logic? Truth?
I would tell you that is by no means demonstrated - but if it appeals to you, go for it.


We know things to be true by repeated observation, consideration and conclusion.

The problems start when we use conclusions as observations.
This is how logic becomes a mobius loop, wraps back on itself, and looses meaning.

If you observe the world and conclude there is a God, that's fair enough.
If you use that conclusion as an observable fact, the reasoning becomes faulty quickly.



But this in nether here nor there.
Faith and logic are a fools mix.
If you have true faith, what logic do you really need?

tonygraz Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,173
I think you got it Brewski, the need to try to use logic is an attempt to verify blind faith and it just does not work for anyone but the blinded.
Brewha Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
In fairness, I think dg believe what he says with all his heart.

And it is understood that “the heart does things for reasons that reason does not understand”.

Bully for him.
bgz Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
That's because the heart thinks with it's d*ck.
bgz Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I thought about this... heaven as described by the bible is an exclusive place. You really have to kiss a lot of azz to get in there from my understanding... God ain't going to just let any old sh*t bag in no matter how hard they pray.

The Evangelicals are wrong... dead wrong. You have to do more than just open up your heart and let Jesus in... for real... you quote the thing all the time but have you actually read it? You stick a fish on your car, quote a few passages then call it good.

God is a d*ck... he's looking for any reason not to let you in. All this work you're putting in is for nothing... you're still going to burn in hell. He's like that hot chick you tried to impress in highschool... nope.

There's too much technical debt in this world... it's too hard to be holy enough unless you live in the middle east... those mother f*ckers will put some holes in you.
Brewha Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
This is where being an agnostic really pays off.

Why get into Christian dogma when there are so many different religions to choose from? And what is the point?

Realizing that every culture of human history has death defying believes, with god or gods at the center, makes me wonder why I would worry about any of them being self consistent - or even right for that matter.

let me just float this: No one knows.

People believe as they like from what they have heard and what they have read.

Ain't life grand!
DrafterX Offline
#120 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
I believe I'll have a beer... Beer
Brewha Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
Dude, your like 30 minutes late....
Smooth light Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
His son is the only one that came back, over 300 can be witnesses of it,as true. Plus that's why they bribe the guards too.

Tell me of anymore else that came back, after making claims like he did. The miracles he did, were just his opening act(first part of the NEW TESTEMENT/COVENANT)
The second act(oh happy days, he washed my sins away) the finale is (LIFE FOREVERMORE!!!)

Their ain't no beer in heaven... that's why we drink it here... sure wish you had some when you're down there (hell) but he doesn't serve it. Haha🤣
Dg west deptford Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
quote=Brewha]Not sure I fully understand your questions.
but here goes -

Thanks for your reply


Your statements seem predicated on a god being required for....thought? Logic? Truth?
I would tell you that is by no means demonstrated - but if it appeals to you, go for it.

what are your statements predicated upon?[

We know things to be true by repeated observation, consideration and conclusion.

not to be snide but is that absolutely true?

The problems start when we use conclusions as observations.
This is how logic becomes a mobius loop, wraps back on itself, and looses meaning.

agreed, absolutely true

If you observe the world and conclude there is a God, that's fair enough.
If you use that conclusion as an observable fact, the reasoning becomes faulty quickly.

if? Is that absolutely true?

But this in nether here nor there.
Faith and logic are a fools mix.
If you have true faith, what logic do you really need?

again, sincerely, I that absolutely true?

[/quote]
bgz Offline
#124 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
If something is true, isn't it by definition absolutely true?

You lose everyone with that absolute sh*t.

Sounds bullsh*tty.
Dg west deptford Offline
#125 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Agreed, absolutely.
Atheists/Agnostics believe man is the source of all knowledge
& that all knowledge is derived through our senses, memory & reason.

Reconciling the validity of your senses, memory & reason with your fallibility & using your senses, memory & reason to justify your memory senses & reason is circular logic.

If truth is arbitrary, arguments against your worldview could not be wrong.

Contradictions amount to lying. Because opposing statements cannot both be true.

Truth makes no sense without God.
If thoughts are just the result of electrochemical reactions in evolved brains they are neither true or false. They just are.
Smooth light Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
I'm telling you the truth, I'm a liar! This dos not compute, it's ilogical🤯

Fantasy speaking as reality, air castle made in the sand. Let's see what happens when the wind blows and don't bogart that joint some of your friends sure could use a another hit.🤣🤣🤣
Smooth light Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
the answer my friend is"BLOWING IN THE WIND" - love BOB DYLAN !
bgz Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
Agreed, absolutely.


Yep... sounds bullsh*tty, glad you agree.

Dg west deptford wrote:

Atheists/Agnostics believe man is the source of all knowledge


Huh? I don't believe that... not sure if I know anyone who believes that... where did you come up with that?

More bullsh*t.

Dg west deptford wrote:

& that all knowledge is derived through our senses, memory & reason.


You mean the things we have to interact the world with? How else are we supposed to interact with the world if we don't use those things?

More bullsh*t.

Dg west deptford wrote:

Reconciling the validity of your senses, memory & reason with your fallibility & using your senses, memory & reason to justify your memory senses & reason is circular logic.


^This one is clearly bullsh*t.

Dg west deptford wrote:

If truth is arbitrary, arguments against your worldview could not be wrong.


Is this that logic you speak of? Correlation implies causation, got it... or something like that.

Dg west deptford wrote:

Contradictions amount to lying. Because opposing statements cannot both be true.


WTF?!?!?!

That's not even bullsh*t, that's just a loose screw.

Dg west deptford wrote:

Truth makes no sense without God.


You lost me.

Dg west deptford wrote:

If thoughts are just the result of electrochemical reactions in evolved brains they are neither true or false. They just are.


Was that a non-binary joke?

Brewha Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
Dg west deptford wrote:
quote=Brewha]Not sure I fully understand your questions.
but here goes -

Thanks for your reply


Your statements seem predicated on a god being required for....thought? Logic? Truth?
I would tell you that is by no means demonstrated - but if it appeals to you, go for it.

what are your statements predicated upon?[

We know things to be true by repeated observation, consideration and conclusion.

not to be snide but is that absolutely true?

The problems start when we use conclusions as observations.
This is how logic becomes a mobius loop, wraps back on itself, and looses meaning.

agreed, absolutely true

If you observe the world and conclude there is a God, that's fair enough.
If you use that conclusion as an observable fact, the reasoning becomes faulty quickly.

if? Is that absolutely true?

But this in nether here nor there.
Faith and logic are a fools mix.
If you have true faith, what logic do you really need?

again, sincerely, I that absolutely true?


[/quote]

My statements are predicated on observation, no god needed.


Now here again is where I get into trouble;
Truth is relative to the observer and the question being asked. This is why I say truth is mutable.
And I would tell you that there are no absolute truths - only objective ones.

By holding a rock I can test that it is objectively solid.
By firing a neutrino through it it can show it is not solid.
So the exact question and type of observation dictate the truth.
Brewha Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
Dg west deptford wrote:
Agreed, absolutely.
Atheists/Agnostics believe man is the source of all knowledge
& that all knowledge is derived through our senses, memory & reason.

Reconciling the validity of your senses, memory & reason with your fallibility & using your senses, memory & reason to justify your memory senses & reason is circular logic.

If truth is arbitrary, arguments against your worldview could not be wrong.

Contradictions amount to lying. Because opposing statements cannot both be true.

Truth makes no sense without God.
If thoughts are just the result of electrochemical reactions in evolved brains they are neither true or false. They just are.

I thought the idea was that god gave us minds so we could find our own answers.

But is seems you are saying the god is the source of all truth and knowledge. How does work?
DrafterX Offline
#131 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
I tried to sell my soul to da devil but he didn't want it.. Mellow
Brewha Offline
#132 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
Poor Drafter Crying
DrafterX Offline
#133 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
ya... poor Drafter... Sad
bgz Offline
#134 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Should have offered him a beer.
tonygraz Offline
#135 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,173
An eye for an eye, then turn the other cheek and become blind. Give Drafter a beer or a free phone and maybe a chiken.
bgz Offline
#136 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I'm not selling my sol to Drafter.
Smooth light Offline
#137 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Who told you had a soul?
izonfire Offline
#138 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
God gave us the gift of life to enjoy it.
Leave it to humans to fucque it all up…
BuckyB93 Offline
#139 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,110
Uno tre NINE!
Brewha Offline
#140 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
tonygraz wrote:
An eye for an eye, then turn the other cheek and become blind. Give Drafter a beer or a free phone and maybe a chiken.

Four fried chickens - and a coke….
Drafter likes real food.
DrafterX Offline
#141 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
True..true... Mellow
bgz Offline
#142 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
And a pile of potatoes in some form or another... can't forget the potatoes... preferably fried.
Dg west deptford Offline
#143 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Brewha wrote:
I thought the idea was that god gave us minds so we could find our own answers.


YES!
Except they're not really "your own answers" when they're absolutes.

Of course I get it that the truth of a solid is subjective which inturn is another absolute

You can make the contradictory equation as hard as you like. The conclusion is the same everytime.

The Truth you know is Absolute truth exists.
Dg west deptford Offline
#144 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
tonygraz wrote:
An eye for an eye, then turn the other cheek and become blind. Give Drafter a beer or a free phone and maybe a chiken.


What's your beef with the Law Tony?

Or is it "contradictions" your cowering behind?

Pretty sure Judges mediate payouts in lieu of an eye to this day.
But a globalist doesn't mind corporate greed being unchecked.

If the perceived contradiction of Judgement & Mercy are a problem for you which one do you want?
bgz Offline
#145 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
^this dude is out there... pretty sure he ignored me.

He only wants to read people that agree with him.
Brewha Offline
#146 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
Dg west deptford wrote:
YES!
Except they're not really "your own answers" when they're absolutes.

Of course I get it that the truth of a solid is subjective which inturn is another absolute

You can make the contradictory equation as hard as you like. The conclusion is the same everytime.

The Truth you know is Absolute truth exists.

Ok, give me an absolute truth as an example.

Smooth light Offline
#147 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Your full of $hit!🤣🤣haha.

Dg west deptford Offline
#148 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
OK how bout this one.
"Drafter likes real food"
bgz Offline
#149 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Deflection with a joke...

Bad example. I call bullsh*t.
Dg west deptford Offline
#150 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Is it absolutely true that I was deflecting with a bad joke?
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