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Biden to Boost Vaccine Requirements for Large Employers, Federal Workers to Combat Covid-19
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
Department of Labor plans to issue an emergency temporary standard implementing the new requirement

WSJ

All employers with 100 or more employees would have to require their workers to be vaccinated or undergo at least weekly Covid-19 testing under a new plan by President Biden to curb the spread of the pandemic, senior administration officials said.

The Labor Department’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration in the coming weeks plans to issue an emergency temporary standard implementing the new requirement, which will cover 80 million private-sector workers, officials said. Businesses that don’t comply can face fines of up to $14,000 per violation, they said.

The employers will also have to give workers paid time off to get vaccinated or to recover from any side effects of getting vaccinated.


The new requirement, set to be announced by Mr. Biden in a speech Thursday, is part of a six-point initiative to boost vaccinations, improve access to testing and make Covid-19 treatments more widely available. The heightened push to combat the pandemic comes amid a surge in infections and increase in hospitalizations and deaths.

The president will also require federal employees in the executive branch and government contractors to be vaccinated against Covid-19, stepping up the requirements for these workers after Mr. Biden earlier said federal workers and contractors who work on-site must be vaccinated or face regular testing and other measures.

The new mandates will cover about 100 million workers, or two-thirds of all workers in the U.S., officials said.


Republican Sen. James Lankford of Oklahoma said Thursday he opposes the requirement for federal workers.

“Federal employees and contractors, members of our military, healthcare workers, and everyone else in our nation should be able to choose whether to get vaccinated. Period,” he said.

Labor unions’ views on vaccination requirements have been mixed. Some have said requirements should be part of contract negotiations, like other work rules. Tyson Foods Inc. reached a deal with its largest labor union. Other unions, such as the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA and American Federation of Teachers, have been more supportive and are encouraging members to get vaccinated.

Companies including United Airlines Holdings Inc. and Tyson are requiring all employees to be vaccinated. Others, such as Walmart Inc., McDonald’s Corp. and Walt Disney Co. , have said certain groups, such as managers or white-collar workers, need to take the shot. Many hospital groups and colleges and universities have also moved to require vaccinations.

Cases and hospitalizations have been rising in many states, data show, and public-health experts said the return of unvaccinated schoolchildren to classrooms and other factors could give the virus new opportunities to spread. About half of the nation is fully vaccinated.

Mr. Biden’s plan will also tackle Covid-19 prevention and vaccinations in schools, where outbreaks in some places already have led buildings to shut down or children to be quarantined. All of the almost 300,000 educators who work in Head Start, a federal program providing early childhood education and other services, will have to be vaccinated under Mr. Biden’s plan. A requirement will also apply to schools operated by the Department of Defense and Bureau of Indian Education.

The Department of Education will make additional funding available to schools if they have funding jeopardized or pulled by state leaders who have prohibited Covid-19 measures such as testing and masks, officials said. Mr. Biden on Thursday will urge governors to call for vaccinations of all schoolteachers and staff.

Officials said the president plans to use the Defense Production Act to accelerate the production of rapid at-home tests for Covid-19. The administration is procuring about $2 billion in rapid point-of-care and over-the-counter at-home Covid tests.

Twenty-five million free tests are expected to be shipped to 1,400 community health centers and hundreds of food banks. Walmart, Amazon Inc. and Kroger Co. will sell rapid Covid-19 tests at cost for the next three months, according to the plan. The push aims to alleviate the difficulties some people are having obtaining or buying tests that have been in higher demand as cases have surged.

To reinforce masking during travel, the Transportation Security Administration will double fines on travelers who refuse to wear masks. The administration will increase shipments of monoclonal antibody treatments by 50%, surge federal strike teams to help beleaguered hospitals, and amend the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act so that pharmacists can provide the treatments for people with Covid-19, according to the administration’s plan.

Mr. Biden is also expected to call for a global conference on Covid-19 as part of the administration’s global vaccination effort, according to people familiar with the planning.

For executive-branch employees, the beefed-up mandate will likely give workers about 75 days to be fully vaccinated, with limited exceptions such as religious or medical reasons, officials said. Employees who don’t comply face progressive disciplinary action.

Some federal agencies had already issued requirements that went beyond the president’s July directive to federal workers to get vaccinated or face regular testing. The Department of Health and Human Services is requiring more than 25,000 of its healthcare workers to be vaccinated against the coronavirus. The Department of Veterans Affairs and the military have also issued mandates.


White House officials have said the president won’t mandate vaccinations for every American, and Mr. Biden had previously encouraged private businesses to require vaccines for workers. Mr. Biden said last month that his administration would require nursing homes to vaccinate their staff against Covid-19 or risk losing Medicare and Medicaid funding.

Workers will be considered vaccinated if they receive a single Johnson & Johnson dose or two doses of the vaccines from Moderna Inc. or Pfizer and partner BioNTech SE , officials said. A plan for boosters is under way if approved by federal regulators.
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Biden sucks... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
“emergency temporary standard”



It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
rfenst Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
HockeyDad wrote:
“emergency temporary standard”

I think there is one hell of a lot of legal wiggle room left open in that phrase....
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,423
F@ck Joe Biden

Covid cases up 300% since last year.

Math isn't in the DNC wheelhouse.
RayR Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
BUT DICKTATOR JOE"S GOT A S-I-X P-R-O-N-G P-L-A-N to lick the COVID
Don't you feel S-I-X T-I-M-E-S S-A-F-E-R?
The COVID will be on the run just like the Talibani's

#F@ck Joe Biden
Brewha Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
Good. So Joe is gonna help fix the misinformation and irresponsibility of the previous azz clown.

God bless you Joe!
rfenst Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
DrMaddVibe wrote:
F@ck Joe Biden

Covid cases up 300% since last year.

Math isn't in the DNC wheelhouse.

Whose fault is that last year increase?
DrafterX Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Prolly Biden's.. cause he sucks and stuff... Mellow
RobertHively Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,837
HockeyDad wrote:
“emergency temporary standard”



It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.


Yep. It's really happening, and they said it was fiction. If you'll recall, in that book the party left the "Proles" alone.

My brother and I have some land up in West Virginia, we use it as a hunt camp. It's about 7 hours north of me, in no man's land. Has an old farmhouse and small cabin with free natural gas, and a gas royalty check that more than covers the taxes on the land.

I'll be prole'n it fo sho if this "emergency temporary standard" gets implemented.
rfenst Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
RobertHively wrote:
Yep. It's really happening, and they said it was fiction. If you'll recall, in that book the party left the "Proles" alone.

My brother and I have some land up in West Virginia, we use it as a hunt camp. It's about 7 hours north of me, in no man's land. Has an old farmhouse and small cabin with free natural gas, and a gas royalty check that more than covers the taxes on the land.

I'll be prole'n it fo sho if this "emergency temporary standard" gets implemented.

Start packing.
RobertHively Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,837
Imma party like it's 1899 :)
RayR Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
RobertHively wrote:
Yep. It's really happening, and they said it was fiction. If you'll recall, in that book the party left the "Proles" alone.

My brother and I have some land up in West Virginia, we use it as a hunt camp. It's about 7 hours north of me, in no man's land. Has an old farmhouse and small cabin with free natural gas, and a gas royalty check that more than covers the taxes on the land.

I'll be prole'n it fo sho if this "emergency temporary standard" gets implemented.


What's the matter for you? You don't want to be a serf in the “Build Back Better” society?

Don't tell Brewha where the camp is.

They're getting ready for the freedom fighters.

White House Releases Mandatory Vaccine Rules for U.S. Workforce and Reinstalls Fence Around Capitol to Avoid Backlash

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/09/09/white-house-releases-mandatory-vaccine-rules-for-u-s-workforce-and-reinstalls-fence-around-capitol-to-avoid-backlash/
frankj1 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
RobertHively wrote:
Imma party like it's 1899 :)

nice!
rfenst Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
RayR wrote:
What's the matter for you? You don't want to be a serf in the “Build Back Better” society?

Don't tell Brewha where the camp is.

They're getting ready for the freedom fighters.

White House Releases Mandatory Vaccine Rules for U.S. Workforce and Reinstalls Fence Around Capitol to Avoid Backlash

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/09/09/white-house-releases-mandatory-vaccine-rules-for-u-s-workforce-and-reinstalls-fence-around-capitol-to-avoid-backlash/


The timing of the fence decision, the building of it as well as the reasons for building it, are unrelated to vaccine mandates and are merely coincidental.
RayR Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
rfenst wrote:
The timing of the fence decision, the building of it as well as the reasons for building it, are unrelated to vaccine mandates and are merely coincidental.


Ya right Robert. Likely story.
rfenst Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
RayR wrote:
Ya right Robert. Likely story.

Go ahead. Prove the conspiracy correlation. I'll be waiting...
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
rfenst wrote:
Go ahead. Prove the conspiracy correlation. I'll be waiting...

I'll spare ya several c&p's from Rockhead.com...

pedophile cannibals are to blame.

rayr can take the night off.
RayR Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
No need for conspiracy theories Robert, the timing of the building of the fence in the District of Corruption, and Biden's authoritarian dicktates says it all. You really think that's "merely coincidental"?
RobertHively Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,837
"Rest assured, we will fight them to the gates of hell to protect the liberty and livelihood of every South Carolinian." -Gov Henry McMaster

It's going to get ugly. All the more reason to bug the F out. There are more deer than people in WV.

Just have to see how it plays out over the next couple weeks...
Smooth light Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Whats the plan for all the infected covid-19 aliens , he lets in at the border, oh they don't need a shot💉. They're the REAL super spreaders. Another boondoggle their sweeping under the rug, that they won't admit to, and there's many more.

If Trump wanted it it's got to be bad.(seal the border)

This has got to stop... America first or their won't be one, when are you going to be WOKE to that.
bgz Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
RobertHively wrote:
"Rest assured, we will fight them to the gates of hell to protect the liberty and livelihood of every South Carolinian." -Gov Henry McMaster

It's going to get ugly. All the more reason to bug the F out. There are more deer than people in WV.

Just have to see how it plays out over the next couple weeks...


Oh sh*t, your deer got covid?

Ya... time to bug the F*ck out... go somewhere with better beer... er, I mean deer.
MACS Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
My hope is that this is challenged.

When challenged, the SCOTUS has NO recourse but to say that this is not only unconstitutional, but complete fkn bullsheeeeit.
BuckyB93 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
Another government over reach. WTF is "emergency temporary standard?" If you break it up into the three words, you'd probably get an awesome score in Scrabble.

But the "experts" say follow the science, yeah.... I don't think their version of science would pass the dictionary challenge in a Scrabble game.

rfenst Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
BuckyB93 wrote:
Another government over reach. WTF is "emergency temporary standard?" If you break it up into the three words, you'd probably get an awesome score in Scrabble.

But the "experts" say follow the science, yeah.... I don't think their version of science would pass the dictionary challenge in a Scrabble game.

Bucky, you are going to have to be vaccinated to keep your job, right?
Plowboy221 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
Repeat after me,

You will comply!
You will comply!
You will comply!

Heil Biden……

“This is not about freedom or personal choice," Biden said. "It's about protecting yourself and those around you."
RayR Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
MACS wrote:
My hope is that this is challenged.

When challenged, the SCOTUS has NO recourse but to say that this is not only unconstitutional, but complete fkn bullsheeeeit.


Of course, this is another unlawful and immoral power grab by the left. Just another impeachable offense to add to Biden's treasonous offense in Afghanistan.

Somebody explain it to Frank, he still doesn't understand just how deceitful and evil the left is. Such a franking innocent he is.

“This is not about freedom or personal choice,” said Biden. Yes, we know dickweed Joe ...it's about dictatorship.
RayR Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
frankj1 wrote:
I'll spare ya several c&p's from Rockhead.com...

pedophile cannibals are to blame.

rayr can take the night off.


Frank, this is something for you to digest...courtesy of Tom DiLorenzo at LRC.

Quote:
The Dumbest Thing Senile Joe Has Said So Far?

The mumbling jackass criminal thug in the White House said yesterday: “We need to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated.”

Interpretation: 1) The “vaccine” doesn’t work; 2) Therefore, we need to force it on everyone.



LOL LOL LOL
BuckyB93 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
rfenst wrote:
Bucky, you are going to have to be vaccinated to keep your job, right?


I have not seen anything chiseled in stone about mandatory vax come down from the mothership yet.
Brewha Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
What a bunch of cry babies.

Take the shot and wear a mask kids.



650,000 Americans dead and you guy focus on your navels....

Man up, will you!
rfenst Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
What legal ground do Republican governors have to push back on vaccine mandates?
Not much, based on a century of Supreme Court precedent

WAP

Vaccine mandates have arrived. And so, too, has opposition led by Republicans. Nineteen Republican governors spoke out against President Biden’s announcement Thursday that American workers in large businesses must be vaccinated or face weekly testing. A half-dozen GOP governors threatened to sue, alongside the Republican National Committee.

But the legal ground they have to stand on appears rather shaky, based on a century of Supreme Court precedent.

The crux of the debate is where one’s personal freedom lies in relation to the broader health and rights of the nation.

About a century ago, in 1905, the Supreme Court was asked a similar question and sided with the vaccine mandates.


In 1905, at the height of a smallpox outbreak and at a time when infectious diseases were the No. 1 killer in America, the court considered whether Cambridge, Mass., could force people to get vaccinated for it. There was intense and passionate resistance to these vaccine mandates, with some people going so far as to burn their arm with nitric acid to make it look like they had smallpox, which left a scar, the New York Times reports.

A local pastor, Henning Jacobson, resisted, claiming and his son had bad reactions to earlier vaccines. He sued Cambridge and argued that “compulsion to introduce disease into a healthy system is a violation of liberty” and that being forced to take the vaccine violated his 14th Amendment rights, which says that no state shall “deprive any person of life, liberty, or property.”

That was a relatively easy no for the court. In a 7-to-2 ruling in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, it decided that jurisdictions do have the right to require people to get vaccinated. Back then, the government was much more forceful about it, knocking down people’s doors to get them vaccinated, the New York Times says.

Justice John Marshall Harlan wrote, rather presciently for today’s pandemic, that: “upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.”

He hit at this core idea among vaccine-mandate skeptics that personal liberty must come above all else. Liberty, he wrote, is not “an absolute right in each person to be, in all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint.”

But even as the justices expounded on where the lines of civil liberty are drawn, they didn’t make broad or sweeping determinations about vaccine mandates. It was specific to this Cambridge case.

An anti-vaccination league (not just anti-vaccine mandate) got started up a few years after that, writes Nicholas Mosvick at the National Constitution Center. And over the years, the Jacobson case got rechallenged and re-upheld. The Supreme Court has generally leaned to the side of giving the government authority to protect public health.

“Laws that restrict … liberty rights need only be ‘rationally related’ to any ‘legitimate state interest,’ and the Court continues to accept almost any plausible reason as justification,” three scholars with the state of Massachusetts wrote in 2005, summarizing the court’s various other rulings on this.

The American Civil Liberties Union recently raised another Supreme Court case for people who say they won’t get vaccinated on religious grounds: The 1944 case Prince v. Massachusetts, where the court decided a Jehovah’s Witness could continue to employ her child on the street to sell literature.

But the justices put boundaries on religious freedom, writing: “The right to practice religion freely does not include liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease or the latter to ill health or death.’”

Today, arguably more modern laws and institutions apply to vaccine mandates. The Labor Department’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration handles workplace safety, and it has the legal authority to mandate vaccines to keep workers safe, says Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney in the Obama and Trump administrations now at University of Michigan Law School. “OSHA’s mission is to ensure safe and healthy working conditions by setting and enforcing workplace standards for private employers,” she said.

That’s not to say what Biden is mandating is completely normal. A former OSHA official under the Obama administration said to my colleagues at The Washington Post that the agency decided against mandating a hepatitis B vaccine for workers who regularly come into contact with blood.

The Biden administration is also offering an out to vaccine skeptics: Face weekly testing if you don’t want to get vaccinated. McQuade said she thinks the administration has the authority to mandate vaccines, period. The testing alternative, she said, “strikes me as a way to make the initiative more politically palatable.”

It’s a fair policy question of whether, in a capitalist society, businesses should be free to make their own decisions that pertain to the health of their employees and customers. “That’s really a free-enterprise decision that should be made by companies, and not the government,” Rick Murray, chairman of the government affairs committee at the Arizona Small Business Association, told my colleagues at The Post.

But now that the government has decided it’s time to force workers to get vaccinated, there doesn’t seem to be much legal ground skeptics have to stand on to say no.
RayR Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Screw the Supreme Court precedents, just say no to tyranny.

Besides that, who still believes anything that lying sack of chit 💩 clown dicktator Biden 🤡 says?
Eh...probably Brewha, he'll believe anything the regime and its apparatchiks tell him.

Biden breaks his promise not to mandate vaccines: President announces sweeping federal requirements for as many as
100M Americans after repeated claims COVID shots wouldn't be made compulsory


By KEITH GRIFFITH and EMILY GOODIN SENIOR U.S. POLITICAL REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 22:04 EDT, 9 September 2021 | UPDATED: 02:07 EDT, 10 September 2021


On Thursday, Biden announced sweeping vaccine rules affecting 100 million

It is a reversal from prior vows from him and White House not to order shots

In December Biden said of vaccination: 'I don't think it should be mandatory, I wouldn't demand it to be mandatory'

In July Jen Psaki said a mandate is 'not the role of the federal government'

Now the Labor Department will force many employers to require vaccines

Hospitals and businesses with more than 100 employees fall under the rules

All federal employees also must get vaccinated within 75 days or be fired

Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta variant

But he is accused now of flip-flopping after violating his earlier vows

More...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9976067/Biden-flip-flops-reversing-vow-NOT-mandate-vaccines.html



RayR Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Against Biden's Mandates

By the Mises Institute Editors

Quote:
We oppose President Biden's lawless and authoritarian new mandates announced yesterday. We also denounce his divisive rhetoric toward unvaccinated Americans, his reckless antipathy for federalism, and his threats to usurp state governors.

Contra Mr. Biden, this is entirely about freedom and personal choice.

His proposed executive orders represent nothing less than centralized tyranny, whereby the federal government operates under no legal constraints. This is government anarchy.

The announced policies—including mandated vaccines for private employers of a certain size, mandated vaccines for all healthcare workers, and mandated vaccines for federal employees—are wildly extraconstitutional and far beyond any executive power imagined in the Constitution. Of course, the same is true for OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration), which (since its magical creation in 1971) laughably claims jurisdiction over working conditions across millions of private US businesses operating on private property. OSHA is the bludgeon Mr. Biden intends to use against business owners to dictate their arrangements with employees by requiring covid vaccines.

Yet property ownership is defined by control. Ownership is a bundle of rights to the exclusive use of property. Biden's orders violate property rights directly, by reducing the control a business owner has over the conduct of that business. And yes, this understanding of property rights applies in other settings: federal regulations on businesses—or even worse, executive orders from an individual president—are simply a form of partial theft, a diminution of owners' property rights. They are akin to stealing a percentage of a business.

Legality aside, Biden's proposals are deeply immoral and unnecessary. Covid risks do not justify the hysteria emboldened by the president's announcement. After 2020 we know definitively that elderly and obese individuals are at greatest risk of death from covid, while younger and healthier people face no more (and often less) risk than with an ordinary flu. Yet not only does Biden threaten to repeat the mistakes of 2020, he intends to intensify them. Markets and civil society can address health concerns far better than any centralized system; at most, state and local governments should act according to local conditions.

More...

https://mises.org/wire/against-bidens-mandates
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I don't think a vaccination card would be hard to fake... in fact..Think
rfenst Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
How many Americans will buck Biden’s vaccine and testing mandate — and quit their jobs?

WAPO

President Biden on Thursday announced the federal government’s boldest move to date in its coronavirus vaccination campaign, making companies with at least 100 employees require either vaccinations or weekly testing.

The White House estimates this requirement will apply to about 80 million workers, or about two-thirds of the U.S. workforce. In other words, in a country in which one-quarter of adults have not gotten the vaccine, it could force plenty of people into some difficult choices.

The question from there is what choice they will make and what impact it will have, not just on the vaccination rate but on people’s livelihoods and the economy.

Some, especially on the right, have argued not just that such a mandate is bad policy, but that it’s also likely to inflame the situation by making the unvaccinated dig in. The Hotline’s Josh Kraushaar summarized that argument Thursday:

There is indeed evidence that many Americans — the vast majority of the unvaccinated, in fact — claim to be dug-in against employer vaccine mandates. But that’s in some ways a false choice here, and many are probably overestimating just how much American workers will fight this.

Many making this argument have cited a Washington Post-ABC News poll released over the weekend. It showed that just 18 percent unvaccinated people whose employers don’t currently have mandates said they would likely get vaccinated if their employer required it. About 7 in 10 (72 percent) said that, if they couldn’t get a medical or religious exemption, they would probably quit rather than submit to the requirement.

That would be a big number. When you drill down on the data, fully 16 percent of all Americans who work for employers say they are unvaccinated and would quit if their employer required them get vaccinated.


But there’s some nuance in both these numbers and the actual policy.

One is that there are exemptions in the new policy. The White House said Thursday that people could seek them for religious reasons or if they have a disability. The Post-ABC poll shows that 35 percent of the unvaccinated say they would seek such an exemption, compared to 42 percent who say they would outright quit.


At the same time, it’s not clear how many people in that 35 percent would necessarily qualify for exemptions. It would seem logical that many of their objections are personal rather than religious or health-related, and they might not meet the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission’s standard. So, many of them could still be pushed into a difficult choice. And the poll shows that very few of them would opt for vaccination if denied an exemption.

The other thing to keep in mind here is that this is a hypothetical — one that invites people to claim an attractive, principled stand that, in many cases, might not ultimately hold up. Most of the remaining unvaccinated have staked out this position and firmly declined to get vaccinated for the better part of a year.
If they’re suddenly asked whether they would submit to doing something they didn’t previously want to do, of course many of them are going to say they would fight it. We all like to think we would stand up for our principles in that situation. The reality could be quite different.

And that principled stand could be even more costly than it was when the poll was conducted. Quitting your job over such a mandate is no easy call in the first place. It becomes even more difficult if there is suddenly a major dearth of alternatives to employment.
The Post-ABC poll was conducted at a time when just 2 in 10 Americans said they worked for companies with vaccine requirements. What happens when that number jumps to two-thirds or more of the American workforce, with every major company in the country having this requirement?

The other major reason the number who will truly fight this is probably oversold — and the pushback on it a little overzealous — is that the policy has an important third option: Weekly testing. Many, including the media and the Republicans crying foul, have cast this as a vaccine mandate when it’s not strictly that. It’s a vaccine or testing mandate. If people truly object to vaccination but do not want to lose their jobs, they can submit to this testing.

That matters both legally speaking when it comes to whether the policy passes muster, and practically speaking when it comes to its ultimate impact. Getting tested weekly is a hassle and might not be attractive to people — potentially spurring less-reluctant unvaccinated people to just get the shot — but it could ultimately be more attractive than what other unvaccinated people will view as the more extreme options.


The ideal scenario for the vaccination campaign is that these people get vaccinated rather than submit to weekly testing or quit. But it also means that perhaps the choice isn’t as stark and the opposition isn’t as likely to be as dug-in as some have suggested.

And as the New York Times’s Maggie Haberman notes, to the extent people do truly dig in, it will probably be not because of the policy, but because they were already dug in in the first place.

Now they will just have an excuse to blame it on Biden.
BuckyB93 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
So mandate everyone to get a vaccine for an illness that isn't as deadly as it's being portrayed, with a vaccine that hasn't been all that successful in protecting people from getting it or passing it along, and one that we have no idea of it's long term effects if any.

Theses are facts, not opinion.
HockeyDad Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
We already have a number of vaccine mandates in California that were issued under emergency rule. We are a one party supermajority state and the legislature has ceded an open ended state of emergency to the governor. We are a kingdom now. It was inevitable that we would export our plan nationwide. It’s what we do.

We already have vaccine passports. You will have them soon enough. https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/



Keep in mind that Covid-19 was the #3 killer in the US in 2020 behind cancer and heart disease.

Keep in mind hospitals are so overwhelmed that we are firing doctors and nurses who are not vaccinated.

The Patriot Act was an emergency temporary standard.

Plowboy221 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 5,144
Brewha wrote:
What a bunch of cry babies.

Take the shot and wear a mask kids.



650,000 Americans dead and you guy focus on your navels....
Man up, will you!



Mind your own business would ya….. how bout we mandate you have to live in a tent in San Francisco and jerk off all the homeless dudes ever day between 0630 and 1730. You know for benefit of public health.
RayR Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
HockeyDad wrote:
We already have a number of vaccine mandates in California that were issued under emergency rule. We are a one party supermajority state and the legislature has ceded an open ended state of emergency to the governor. We are a kingdom now. It was inevitable that we would export our plan nationwide. It’s what we do.

We already have vaccine passports. You will have them soon enough. https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/



Keep in mind that Covid-19 was the #3 killer in the US in 2020 behind cancer and heart disease.

Keep in mind hospitals are so overwhelmed that we are firing doctors and nurses who are not vaccinated.

The Patriot Act was an emergency temporary standard.



Wasn't it Reagan who said, “There’s Nothing More Permanent than a Temporary Government Program”?
RayR Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Plowboy221 wrote:
Mind your own business would ya….. how bout we mandate you have to live in a tent in San Francisco and jerk off all the homeless dudes ever day between 0630 and 1730. You know for benefit of public health.


Ya, and make sure Brewha brings a Pooper Scooper and a Hazmat bag for the needles too.
tonygraz Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,247
I( think I saw some movies about those West Virginia camps. Drive around the state a stay safe.
RobertHively Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,837
tonygraz wrote:
I( think I saw some movies about those West Virginia camps. Drive around the state a stay safe.


I am already adept at living among the savages.
RobertHively Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,837
Brew & BGZ,

I'm not saying people shouldn't get the vax. Take all of the injections and boosters that they say you need, it doesn't bother me one bit. What I'm saying is, I'm not getting the vax, or the so called test either.

If you want to be a part of the new system that's your choice. I choose to opt out in favor of self reliance.

If we can't pay the bank note at our current residence then we will be forced to bug out. Bug out does not mean freak out. To the contrary, I think it will be exciting.

The point of my post was: The vaccine fight is going to become physical (See SC governors quote) sooner or later, so that's even more reason to live where there are even fewer people than where we live currently, which is also out in the boondocks. It's not like we're going to have a choice to stay here and at the same time maintain our bodily autonomy.

Plus the monetary system is on the verge of collapse (again), there are supply chain disruptions, inflation is soaring and the grocery stores are looking pretty bare in my area. Growing our own food, on a larger scale, really isn't a bad idea. We are relatively young and able to do the work necessary. We can afford to do pretty much what we want with the place and would be self-reliant. To me that's a good thing "in these times."

Like I mentioned yesterday, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. There will be a lot of pushback on this one, but it's always good to have a backup plan whether you got the vaccine or not.
RobertHively Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,837
rfenst wrote:
[b][size=7] And as the New York Times’s Maggie Haberman notes, to the extent people do truly dig in, it will probably be not because of the policy, but because they were already dug in in the first place.


"Like an Alabama tick"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjjTCxI0OjE
rfenst Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,302
RobertHively wrote:
Brew & BGZ,

I'm not saying people shouldn't get the vax. Take all of the injections and boosters that they say you need, it doesn't bother me one bit. What I'm saying is, I'm not getting the vax, or the so called test either.

If you want to be a part of the new system that's your choice. I choose to opt out in favor of self reliance.

If we can't pay the bank note at our current residence then we will be forced to bug out. Bug out does not mean freak out. To the contrary, I think it will be exciting.

The point of my post was: The vaccine fight is going to become physical (See SC governors quote) sooner or later, so that's even more reason to live where there are even fewer people than where we live currently, which is also out in the boondocks. It's not like we're going to have a choice to stay here and at the same time maintain our bodily autonomy.

Plus the monetary system is on the verge of collapse (again), there are supply chain disruptions, inflation is soaring and the grocery stores are looking pretty bare in my area. Growing our own food, on a larger scale, really isn't a bad idea. We are relatively young and able to do the work necessary. We can afford to do pretty much what we want with the place and would be self-reliant. To me that's a good thing "in these times."

Like I mentioned yesterday, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. There will be a lot of pushback on this one, but it's always good to have a backup plan whether you got the vaccine or not.

Thanks, I didn't realize the sky was suddenly falling.
HockeyDad Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
rfenst wrote:
Thanks, I didn't realize the sky was suddenly falling.


I read that most of Florida has died from ‘Rona. You should see traffic improvement on I-4.
RayR Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
rfenst wrote:
Thanks, I didn't realize the sky was suddenly falling.


RH is right. You might be cozy in your comfort zone, and ignoring the signs that the country is coming apart at the seams, accelerated no less by your energetic despotic Democratic regime of division and graft, but it can't hurt to prepare for when wheels come off.

Oh Noes, Don’t Throw Me in The Briar Patch Mr. Biden

September 9, 2021 | Sundance

Quote:
Perhaps it’s because we have been discussing this moment for over a decade; or perhaps it’s because we’ve already chosen our tribe amid this league of crazy; or perhaps it’s just because we don’t like ‘them’ in the first place; but whatever it is, this announcement today by the White House to cleave society into vaxxed -vs- non-vaxxed status is actually a little funny. Good luck with it.

Eyes of a mouse. Ears of an elephant. Heart of a lion, and the mindset of an insurgent.

This ain’t new. Or as we say amid my social circle: “We done knew.”

The White House claims that 80 million Americans are unvaccinated, and we are now the enemy of the state. OK, whatever. When you get all done with the teeth gnashing part, I’m still unvaxxed. And if I’m no longer permitted to engage in a social construct that I have been studiously avoiding for the past few decades, well, meh…. a’right then, punish me by barring me from living life amid the Federal Moonbats. The federal compliance and enforcement part of the mandated worker vaccination will be fun to watch.

I have serious doubts that only 80 million Americans are unvaccinated, but fair enough; if that’s your number, okay then. However, consider this…. Assuming we are the minority group, the non-vaxxed crew breaks down into two broad segments: (1) The extremely well-educated who carry commonsense and are in a social strata where they remain quiet about it; and (2) The skeptical productive class of similarly disposed commonsense blue-collar workers who are the backbone of American productivity.

The comfortable existence for the rest of “polite society” is dependent on the scruffneck working class, the dirty fingernail folk who know what Lava soap feels like, and the industrious service sector workforce who fulfill the needs of those who hold out their pinky fingers when they drink from a glass.

If this non-vaccinated ‘minority group’ stops fulfilling the needs of the vaccinated ‘betters’, guess what happens?

Additionally, if the non-vaccinated minority begin following the COVID rules with extreme compliance, the entire system doesn’t function. Whoops, I cannot enter a federal property because I am not vaccinated {{{shrugs shoulders}}}. Okay, I’ll leave the pizzas on the sidewalk, enjoy.

More...

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/09/09/oh-noes-dont-throw-me-in-the-briar-patch-mr-biden/
bgz Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
RobertHively wrote:
Brew & BGZ,

I'm not saying people shouldn't get the vax. Take all of the injections and boosters that they say you need, it doesn't bother me one bit. What I'm saying is, I'm not getting the vax, or the so called test either.

If you want to be a part of the new system that's your choice. I choose to opt out in favor of self reliance.

If we can't pay the bank note at our current residence then we will be forced to bug out. Bug out does not mean freak out. To the contrary, I think it will be exciting.

The point of my post was: The vaccine fight is going to become physical (See SC governors quote) sooner or later, so that's even more reason to live where there are even fewer people than where we live currently, which is also out in the boondocks. It's not like we're going to have a choice to stay here and at the same time maintain our bodily autonomy.

Plus the monetary system is on the verge of collapse (again), there are supply chain disruptions, inflation is soaring and the grocery stores are looking pretty bare in my area. Growing our own food, on a larger scale, really isn't a bad idea. We are relatively young and able to do the work necessary. We can afford to do pretty much what we want with the place and would be self-reliant. To me that's a good thing "in these times."

Like I mentioned yesterday, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. There will be a lot of pushback on this one, but it's always good to have a backup plan whether you got the vaccine or not.


You seem like a glass half empty type guy... I'm more it's a twice as big as it should be sort of guy.

Anyway, I have a different outlook. Coins are poppin... stock plays been hittin, sounds like a bunch of job opportunities are about to be openning up...

Why so gloom?
RobertHively Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,837
RayR wrote:
RH is right. You might be cozy in your comfort zone, and ignoring the signs that the country is coming apart at the seams, accelerated no less by your energetic despotic Democratic regime of division and graft, but it can't hurt to prepare for when wheels come off.

Oh Noes, Don’t Throw Me in The Briar Patch Mr. Biden

September 9, 2021 | Sundance



To sum up the article in a sentence:


"Who is John Galt?"
RobertHively Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,837
bgz wrote:
You seem like a glass half empty type guy... I'm more it's a twice as big as it should be sort of guy.

Anyway, I have a different outlook. Coins are poppin... stock plays been hittin, sounds like a bunch of job opportunities are about to be openning up...

Why so gloom?


Not at all. I have positioned myself to where even the glass is of no consequence to me.

Be carefull wif da casino though, otherwise the position you end up in might be missionary. :)
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