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18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)"
Mr. Jones Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,410
All those VANS AND MOTORHOMES in Virginia /Alexandria... JAM PACKED WITH FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES IDLEING IN REAL TIME during the capital riot and takeover are a new wrinkle in the evidence...

Plus those dudes HAD BOATS...
PLURAL...
BOATS READY TO MOVE ORDINANCE IF THE BRIDGES INTO D.C. WERE CLOSED by the H.E.A.T. & capital FUZZ...

MR. EYE PATCH OATH KEEPER IS GOIN ...

D
O
W
N


LONG TIME...

they used encrypted messaging and other high tech
Stuff to avoid detection...

I just learned that around ten of these jokers met at the SOLANCO FAIR GROUNDS bldg in Quarryville ( a podunk berg of idjits and sloW Moe's at best) IN southern Lancaster county Pa. Like a week or 10 days before Jan. 6 , 2021...

I went to a gun show in the exact same bldg last year...

Issurection and subterfuge in SOLANCO ???

BWUHAHAHAHAHA!!!

TOO MUCH !!!
frankj1 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
for months people have been saying that of all the arrests and charges, none were for big time crime...just crap like unlawful entry or B & E level stuff and maybe a few months sentence if even that much.
Never understood why people thought something yuuuge like this, whether it is ultimately proven or not, would have NOT taken a year or more to put together the puzzle.

This may just break the log jam.

I certainly hope the truth is uncovered.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,647
You know you're not well liked when they hand you the camera every time there's a group photo
RayR Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
rfenst wrote:
"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)"


See, I knew Lincoln should have been brought up on charges of treason.

You can throw Joe Biden in there too.
rfenst Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
frankj1 wrote:
for months people have been saying that of all the arrests and charges, none were for big time crime...just crap like unlawful entry or B & E level stuff and maybe a few months sentence if even that much.
Never understood why people thought something yuuuge like this, whether it is ultimately proven or not, would have NOT taken a year or more to put together the puzzle.

This may just break the log jam.

I certainly hope the truth is uncovered.

If you take look at the charges filed there is an incredibly detailed series of alleged facts. Criminal charges are not usually that extraordinarily specific- down to each individual paragraph. Instead, they are usually as general as possible. By alleging every single step the way they have, they have accomplished two goals: 1) convictions; and 2) public acceptance that something real went down on 1/6.

The next major phase in prosecutions will be an attempt to connect Trump's political allies, Congressional Republican Senators and Representatives and White House staff who knew what was planned. Then, they will go after Trump if he was any part of this or had any advance knowledge of any part of this. I suspect prosecutors and the Committee already fully know this and the rest will just be for show. Lots of people going down hard, IMO.

I'll try to find the charging documents and post them...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
frankj1 wrote:
for months people have been saying that of all the arrests and charges, none were for big time crime...just crap like unlawful entry or B & E level stuff and maybe a few months sentence if even that much.
Never understood why people thought something yuuuge like this, whether it is ultimately proven or not, would have NOT taken a year or more to put together the puzzle.

This may just break the log jam.

I certainly hope the truth is uncovered.


It's a DNC Pelosi $hitshow. It ALWAYS was and it ALWAYS will be. SHE didn't sign off for the National Guard to protect the place, and neither did the DC mayor that gassed BLM/ANTIFA rioters earlier. The notion that this was any kind of treason or sedition when all they've been able to muster up are trespassing charges and criminal mischief is laughable on Pelosi's part and anyone still believing it was any more than that. The FBI were involved in this and they're not charging them are they? The FBI rats they have on a leash aren't being charged are they? All of the film from that day hasn't been released either.

You want to get serious with criminal prosecution? Perp walk Hillary "Carpetbaggin' PantSuit" Clinton.

Or better yet...

https://thefederalist.com/2022/01/06/j6-hysteria-is-how-media-and-other-democrats-are-avoiding-accountability-for-their-rigging-of-the-2020-election/
rfenst Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
The United States Department of Justice


Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Thursday, January 13, 2022


[b]Leader of Oath Keepers and 10 Other Individuals Indicted in Federal Court for Seditious Conspiracy and Other Offenses Related to U.S. Capitol Breach

Eight Others Facing Charges in Two Related Cases



A federal grand jury in the District of Columbia returned an indictment yesterday, which was unsealed today, charging 11 defendants with seditious conspiracy and other charges for crimes related to the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, which disrupted a joint session of the U.S. Congress that was in the process of ascertaining and counting the electoral votes related to the presidential election.

According to court documents, Elmer Stewart Rhodes III, 56, of Granbury, Texas, who is the founder and leader of the Oath Keepers; and Edward Vallejo, 63, of Phoenix, Arizona, are being charged for the first time in connection with events leading up to and including Jan. 6. Rhodes was arrested this morning in Little Elm, Texas, and Vallejo was arrested this morning in Phoenix.

In addition to Rhodes and Vallejo, those named in the indictment include nine previously charged defendants: Thomas Caldwell, 67, of Berryville, Virginia; Joseph Hackett, 51, of Sarasota, Florida; Kenneth Harrelson, 41, of Titusville, Florida; Joshua James, 34, of Arab, Alabama; Kelly Meggs, 52, of Dunnellon, Florida; Roberto Minuta, 37, of Prosper, Texas; David Moerschel, 44, of Punta Gorda, Florida; Brian Ulrich, 44, of Guyton, Georgia and Jessica Watkins, 39, of Woodstock, Ohio. In addition to the earlier charges filed against them, they now face additional counts for seditious conspiracy and other offenses.

Eight other individuals affiliated with the Oath Keepers, all previously charged in the investigation, remain as defendants in two related cases. All defendants – except Rhodes and Vallejo – previously were charged in a superseding indictment. The superseding indictment has now effectively been split into three parts: the 11-defendant seditious conspiracy case, a seven-defendant original case, and a third case against one of the previously charged defendants.

In one of the related cases, the original superseding indictment, charges remain pending against James Beeks, 49, of Orlando, Florida; Donovan Crowl, 51, of Cable, Ohio; William Isaacs, 22, of Kissimmee, Florida; Connie Meggs, 60, of Dunnellon, Florida; Sandra Parker, 63, of Morrow, Ohio; Bernie Parker, 71, of Morrow, Ohio, and Laura Steele, 53, of Thomasville, North Carolina. The other case charges Jonathan Walden, 57, of Birmingham, Alabama.

The three indictments collectively charge all 19 defendants with corruptly obstructing an official proceeding. Eighteen of the 19 defendants – the exception is Walden – are charged with conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiring to prevent an officer of the United States from discharging a duty. Eleven of the 19 defendants are charged with seditious conspiracy. Some of the defendants are also facing other related charges.

As alleged in the indictments, the Oath Keepers are a large but loosely organized collection of individuals, some of whom are associated with militias. Though the Oath Keepers will accept anyone as members, they explicitly focus on recruiting current and former military, law enforcement and first-responder personnel. Members and affiliates of the Oath Keepers were among the individuals and groups who forcibly entered the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

The seditious conspiracy indictment alleges that, following the Nov. 3, 2020, presidential election, Rhodes conspired with his co-defendants and others to oppose by force the execution of the laws governing the transfer of presidential power by Jan. 20, 2021. Beginning in late December 2020, via encrypted and private communications applications, Rhodes and various co-conspirators coordinated and planned to travel to Washington, D.C., on or around Jan. 6, 2021, the date of the certification of the electoral college vote, the indictment alleges. Rhodes and several co-conspirators made plans to bring weapons to the area to support the operation. The co-conspirators then traveled across the country to the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area in early January 2021.

According to the seditious conspiracy indictment, the defendants conspired through a variety of manners and means, including: organizing into teams that were prepared and willing to use force and to transport firearms and ammunition into Washington, D.C.; recruiting members and affiliates to participate in the conspiracy; organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics; bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons and supplies – including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection and radio equipment – to the Capitol grounds; breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder and delay the certification of the electoral college vote; using force against law enforcement officers while inside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021; continuing to plot, after Jan. 6, 2021, to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power, and using websites, social media, text messaging and encrypted messaging applications to communicate with co-conspirators and others.

On Jan. 6, 2021, a large crowd began to gather outside the Capitol perimeter as the Joint Session of Congress got under way at 1 p.m. Crowd members eventually forced their way through, up and over U.S. Capitol Police barricades and advanced to the building’s exterior façade. Shortly after 2 p.m., crowd members forced entry into the Capitol by breaking windows, ramming open doors, and assaulting Capitol police and other law enforcement officers. At about this time, according to the indictment, Rhodes entered the restricted area of the Capitol grounds and directed his followers to meet him at the Capitol.

At approximately 2:30 p.m., as detailed in the indictment, Hackett, Harrelson, Meggs, Moerschel and Watkins, and other Oath Keepers and affiliates – many wearing paramilitary clothing and patches with the Oath Keepers name, logo, and insignia – marched in a “stack” formation up the east steps of the Capitol, joined a mob, and made their way into the Capitol. Later, another group of Oath Keepers and associates, including James, Minuta, and Ulrich, formed a second “stack” and breached the Capitol grounds, marching from the west side to the east side of the Capitol building and up the east stairs and into the building.

While certain Oath Keepers members and affiliates breached the Capitol grounds and building, others remained stationed just outside of the city in quick reaction force (QRF) teams. According to the indictment, the QRF teams were prepared to rapidly transport firearms and other weapons into Washington, D.C., in support of operations aimed at using force to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power. The indictment alleges that the teams were coordinated, in part, by Caldwell and Vallejo.

The charge of seditious conspiracy carries a statutory maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. A federal district court judge will determine any sentence after considering the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and other statutory factors.

This case is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia and the Department of Justice National Security Division’s Counterterrorism Section. Valuable assistance was provided by U.S. Attorney’s Offices in the Northern District of Texas and the District of Arizona.

The case is being investigated by the FBI’s Washington Field Office with valuable assistance provided by the FBI’s Dallas and Phoenix Field Offices. These charges are the result of significant cooperation between agents and staff across numerous FBI Field Offices, including those in Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas, Arizona, Alabama and Georgia, among other locations.

In the one year since Jan. 6, more than 725 individuals have been arrested in nearly all 50 states for crimes related to the breach of the U.S. Capitol, including over 225 individuals charged with assaulting or impeding law enforcement. The investigation remains ongoing.

Anyone with tips can call 1-800-CALL-FBI (800-225-5324) or visit tips.fbi.gov.

An indictment is merely an allegation, and all defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.



https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-oath-keepers-and-10-other-individuals-indicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-and
rfenst Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Too much to copy and paste (almost 50 pages)- Here is the link to the document actually filed in open court:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1462481/download
Speyside2 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,358
FAKE NEWS!!! We all know ANTIFA runs the federal government from the shadows. These fine outstanding patriots are being framed by our communist overlords. Just read what The Meisses Institute or TAC, they know the TRUTH!

Sarcasm horse
Sunoverbeach Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,647
My grandpa said my generation relies too much on technology. So I unplugged his life support
bgz Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Sounds like you did God's work.
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
per AP

"The decision on whether to call National Guard troops to the Capitol is made by what is known as the Capitol Police Board, which is made up of the House Sergeant at Arms, the Senate Sergeant at Arms and the Architect of the Capitol. The board decided not to call the guard ahead of the insurrection but did eventually request assistance after the rioting had already begun, and the troops arrived several hours later.

The House Sergeant at Arms reports to Pelosi and the Senate Sergeant at Arms reported to McConnell, a Republican who was then Senate Majority Leader. There is no evidence that either directed the security officials not to call the guard beforehand, and Hammill said after the insurrection that Pelosi was never informed of such a request.

The officials on the board, along with the former Capitol Police chief, Steven Sund, have disputed each others’ accounts of who requested the guard when. Both Sergeants of Arms and the police chief resigned immediately after the attack.

Once Trump’s supporters were assaulting police and breaking into the building, Pelosi and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer appealed to military leaders, asking the Army to deploy the National Guard.

“The Speaker believes security officials should make security decisions. The Speaker immediately signaled her support for the deployment of the National Guard when she was presented with that recommendation on the afternoon of January 6th. Public testimony confirms the fact that the Speaker was not made aware of any request for such a deployment prior to then,” Hammill said in a statement this week.

Republicans have falsely laid the blame on Pelosi without mentioning that GOP Leader McConnell had similar authority over the security officials that day. But there is no evidence that either was involved in any effort to block the National Guard before or during the insurrection."

_
and all of that is unrelated to the OP
rfenst Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
The silence is, as they say, deafening.
Krazeehorse Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
McConnell can leave on the same bus as Pelosi as far as I’m concerned. He should have left 100 years ago after his second term.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,647
I was reading a great book the other day about an immortal cat. It was impossible to put down
RayR Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
rfenst wrote:
The silence is, as they say, deafening.


So what do you want anybody to say?
This whole affair is Demoncratic $hitshow from the get-go.
The hyperbolic statements from Biden's Injustice Dept are quite amusing, this whole idea "Seditious Conspiracy", of a plot to overthrow the government and stuff. Com'on MAN!
Bring on the show trials!
drglnc Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 706
frankj1 wrote:
per AP

"The decision on whether to call National Guard troops to the Capitol is made by what is known as the Capitol Police Board, which is made up of the House Sergeant at Arms, the Senate Sergeant at Arms and the Architect of the Capitol. The board decided not to call the guard ahead of the insurrection but did eventually request assistance after the rioting had already begun, and the troops arrived several hours later.

The House Sergeant at Arms reports to Pelosi and the Senate Sergeant at Arms reported to McConnell, a Republican who was then Senate Majority Leader. There is no evidence that either directed the security officials not to call the guard beforehand, and Hammill said after the insurrection that Pelosi was never informed of such a request.

The officials on the board, along with the former Capitol Police chief, Steven Sund, have disputed each others’ accounts of who requested the guard when. Both Sergeants of Arms and the police chief resigned immediately after the attack.

Once Trump’s supporters were assaulting police and breaking into the building, Pelosi and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer appealed to military leaders, asking the Army to deploy the National Guard.

“The Speaker believes security officials should make security decisions. The Speaker immediately signaled her support for the deployment of the National Guard when she was presented with that recommendation on the afternoon of January 6th. Public testimony confirms the fact that the Speaker was not made aware of any request for such a deployment prior to then,” Hammill said in a statement this week.

Republicans have falsely laid the blame on Pelosi without mentioning that GOP Leader McConnell had similar authority over the security officials that day. But there is no evidence that either was involved in any effort to block the National Guard before or during the insurrection."

_
and all of that is unrelated to the OP


Here we go again... someone attempting to use facts and logic in a CBID Politics post... Don't you know that don't fly here...
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
drglnc wrote:
Here we go again... someone attempting to use facts and logic in a CBID Politics post... Don't you know that don't fly here...

I do.

But I've been made aware of the apparent fact that I get taken seriously so I suppose I have a responsibility.

Sometimes what people write may not tell everything about their willingness to hear. And because I am willing to hear I kind of enjoy being here rather than surrounded by affirmation...you know what I mean, no?

Maybe some hear us.
rfenst Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
RayR wrote:
So what do you want anybody to say?
This whole affair is Demoncratic $hitshow from the get-go.
The hyperbolic statements from Biden's Injustice Dept are quite amusing, this whole idea "Seditious Conspiracy", of a plot to overthrow the government and stuff. Com'on MAN!
Bring on the show!

I am not saying that the whole 100% of all charges against everyone are all perfect, just that some real bad stuff and a lot more worse could/would have taken place on 1/6.

Show me video disproving what those with the heaviest charges are alleged to have done that day. Show me that there is a notable number of Democrats and their supporters involved.

It is a year later and I am still waiting...

Speyside2 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,358
Personally I think they committed treason, but in all likelihood seditious conspiracy is a winnable case and treason is not.
HockeyDad Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
The important thing is how we can time this out to influence the midterm elections.
RayR Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
Speyside2 wrote:
Personally I think they committed treason, but in all likelihood seditious conspiracy is a winnable case and treason is not.


What country's definition of treason are you using to make that judgment? Can't be the United States.
I didn't see anyone "levying War against them" ("them" being the states for those that don't know the meaning of words in the Constitution)
I didn't see anyone "adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort". You could make s case that the Biden administration committed treason by giving "Aid and Comfort" to the enemies of the states though.

Good luck trying to make an argument for some kind of organized "seditious conspiracy" too. I know, it was a vast right-wing conspiracy and the Q was behind it all! LOL


Treason is the only crime defined in the U.S. Constitution. According to Article III, Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Speyside2 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,358
If you read the 50 page indictment link Robert listed, you might think different.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,647
Never break someone's heart. They only have one of those. Break their bones instead. There's 206 of them
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