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DeSantis vs. Disney
Speyside2 Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 1,863
Hey, you are right, it is comrade Ray. Nihilism is such a Russian concept.
rfenst Online
#102 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,625
RayR wrote:
Pity post from Spey, who thinks he's like Jesus or something.

Blames me for peeps going flaccid, mute and rage quitting. LOL

Spey hates that I snarl and rage against the evil commie progressive machine! Boo hoo!

Did I sum it up?

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito," ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")

What I think Spey is basically saying is that you do not fit in here, despite being given a hell of a lot of time to show otherwise. I'll let him speak for himself if I am incorrect. I know at least five good people on CBID who won't regularly post in the political section anymore solely because of your relentless personal criticisms, name calling, rage and personal attacks. That, IMO, is not cool. That's not being a BOTL on CBID, IMO.
HockeyDad Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
“I hate Arizona. It always eight hundred degrees outside and everybody’s always saying, ‘But it’s a dry heat!’ So’s the inside of my microwave.” ~ Joan Rivers
rfenst Online
#104 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,625
The Attack on Big Mouse Is Also an Assault on Democracy


By Paul Krugman
NYT Opinion Columnist


Until recently the current confrontation between Disney and the State of Florida would have seemed inconceivable. The attacks by Florida Republicans on the entertainment giant will hurt the state’s economy, possibly severely; they reflect a sudden lurch toward intolerance in a nation that seemed to be growing ever more tolerant; and the allegations against Disney are, in a word, insane.

But what’s happening in Florida makes sense once you realize that what Gov. Ron DeSantis and his allies are up to has nothing to do with policy or even politics in the conventional sense. What we’re seeing instead are symptoms of the transformation of the G.O.P. from a normal political party into a radical movement built around conspiracy theories and intimidation.

On the economics: Just a few months ago The Tallahassee Democrat, a local newspaper, published an article titled “The Mouse That Need Not Roar,” arguing that Disney World’s huge role in Florida’s economy gave it almost unchallengeable political influence.

Most directly, Disney World is in a 25,000-acre “special district” within which the company provides basic public services even while paying local property taxes. Last week, however, DeSantis signed legislation eliminating that district, which will leave local taxpayers on the hook — and also, reportedly, saddle them with more than $1 billion in debt.

Beyond that, the resort, in addition to employing large numbers of people itself, draws millions of visitors each year — visitors who spend money that boosts the Florida economy in general. And less tangibly, Disney World has surely contributed to Florida’s image as a desirable place to visit and live. The state’s leisure and hospitality industry is huge, and Disney World is one important reason.

All of this was, however, put in jeopardy when Florida passed its “Don’t Say Gay” bill that not only restricted what schools can say about gender but also severely limited their ability to counsel troubled students without parental consent and opened the door to lawsuits by parents claiming violations of vaguely defined rules.


Disney had nothing to say about this legislation as it was being rammed through. But an entertainment company whose business depends in part on its public image can’t seem too far out of line with prevailing social mores. And American society as a whole has become far more open-minded on L.G.B.T.Q. issues than it used to be: Approval for same-sex marriage rose from 27 percent in 1996 to 70 percent last year. So late in the day — after the bill had already passed the Legislature — Disney’s C.E.O. finally declared that his company opposed it.

The Republican response has been extreme — but then, these days it always is.

Not long ago, using state power to impose financial penalties on corporations for expressing political views you dislike would have been considered beyond the pale. Indeed, it may well be unconstitutional. But the attack on Disney has gone far beyond financial reprisal: Suddenly, Mickey Mouse is part of a vast conspiracy. Florida’s lieutenant governor went on Newsmax to accuse Disney of “indoctrinating” and “sexualizing children” with its “not secret agenda.”

If this seems crazy — which it is — it’s also increasingly the Republican norm. I don’t think political reporting has caught up with how thoroughly Orbinization the G.O.P. has become.

As I mentioned the other day, roughly half of Republicans believe that “top Democrats are involved in elite child sex-trafficking rings.” Here’s an even more impressive number: 66 percent of Republicans buy into “white replacement theory,” agreeing wholly or partly with the claim that “the Democratic Party is trying to replace the current electorate with voters from poorer countries around the world.”

Given this mind-set, ambitious Republican politicians naturally pursue policies devised to play to the base’s paranoia and accuse anyone who opposes these policies of being part of a nefarious conspiracy.

And the bizarre nature of the attacks on Disney doesn’t just pander to the craziness of the G.O.P. base; the attacks’ very absurdity is also a message of intimidation aimed at the business world. It says, in effect: “It doesn’t matter how you conduct your business, how innocuous your behavior really is. If you criticize our actions, or fail in any way to demonstrate fealty to our cause, we will find a way to punish you.”

The obvious role model here is Viktor Orban’s Hungary, where the Conservative Political Action Conference will be held next month. As a recent Freedom House report put it, in Hungary “businesspeople whose activities are not in line with the financial or political interest of the government are likely to face harassment and intimidation, and subject to increasing administrative pressure for a possible takeover.”

So the fight over Disney is actually a symptom of a much broader and more troubling development: the QAnonization and Orbanization of one of America’s major political parties, which is putting our democracy at risk.
RayR Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,436
rfenst wrote:
What I think Spey is basically saying is that you do not fit in here, despite being given a hell of a lot of time to show otherwise. I'll let him speak for himself if I am incorrect. I know at least five good people on CBID who won't regularly post in the political section anymore solely because of your relentless personal criticisms, name calling, rage and personal attacks. That, IMO, is not cool. That's not being a BOTL on CBID, IMO.


No, I think you're right about Spey, at least one of his personalities is authoritarian, he prolly wants to cancel me.
But I'll let him speak for himself too.
As far as the other "at least five good people you speak of", they are most likely leftist pussies who expect a politics forum to be an echo chamber of progressive talking points. Maybe some neocons there too? Same thing. Every criticism hurts their feelings and is regarded as a personal attack. So sensitive they are, anything that rocks their boat makes them cry and run home to mama. They are the same everywhere.

rfenst Online
#106 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,625
RayR wrote:
No, I think you're right about Spey, at least one of his personalities is authoritarian, he prolly wants to cancel me.
But I'll let him speak for himself too.
As far as the other "at least five good people you speak of", they are most likely leftist pussies who expect a politics forum to be an echo chamber of progressive talking points. Maybe some neocons there too? Same thing. Every criticism hurts their feelings and is regarded as a personal attack. So sensitive they are, anything that rocks their boat makes them cry and run home to mama. They are the same everywhere.

You are such a tough guy. I'd cancel you from CBID in a heartbeat- if I could. Not because of your opinions, but because your behavior towards others- who merely have opinions different than yours. Grow some balls and behave like an adult.
RayR Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,436
rfenst wrote:
I'd cancel you from CBID in a heartbeat- if I could. Not because of your opinions, but because your behavior towards other who merely have opinions different than yours.


Now there's that authoritarian spirit coming out! I knew you could do it! Laugh
Sunoverbeach Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 10,737
Speyside2 wrote:
That is interesting SOB. His nihilism changed this place for me. The fun was gone. I am trying to overcome his negative presence and find fun here again.

I understand what you're saying, Spey. My recommendation is to determine a way to wring enjoyment from the current environment and #MCFA. Illegitimi non carborundum!

For example, just hypothetically spitballing here, you could find a long list of puns, dark humor, various comedians, possibly even historical satirists and post them daily. Might be spiritually refreshing
Speyside2 Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 1,863
Ya know I actually wrote up that list. Unfortunately I lost it. Writing in invisible ink was a bad idea.

That is a play off an old SW few liner. Is that sort of what you mean?

This place right now reminds me of 2 elephants conjoined at the trunk. They can't trumpet like a normal elephant. They try but only go "Nork" and their eyes get really big.

TC
Speyside2 Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 1,863
Spot on Robert. Speaking of spot, I had a dog named Spot once. He got muddy one day and I never saw him again. Sadly I cleaned him with Spot remover.

SW
frankj1 Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
rfenst wrote:
You are such a tough guy. I'd cancel you from CBID in a heartbeat- if I could. Not because of your opinions, but because your behavior towards others- who merely have opinions different than yours. Grow some balls and behave like an adult.

pretty much.
It's not his beliefs, it's him.
HockeyDad Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
Only independent districts established by special acts before Nov. 5, 1968 which was the year Florida's constitution was revised, which haven't been updated or reestablished since would be eliminated. Of the 132, only 6 meet this qualification for elimination or reestablishment.

Bradford County Development Authority
Sunshine Water Control District
Eastpoint Water and Sewer District
Hamilton County Development Authority
Marion County Law Library
Reedy Creek Improvement District

They all have a year to get reestablished and I suspect they all will. Disney is just going to have to renegotiate.

RCID is a unique beast. Books have been written about how Disney World was built from a governing state point. There have also been other run-ins before over its status. Basically it is an equivalent of a county with two underlying cities. It is designed to keep Orange and Osceola counties out of Disney’s business and control all tax revenues and keep those revenues from being used elsewhere in the counties or to have Orlando incorporate the area as part of the city. Walt and Roy had these problems with Anaheim and Orange County California. A lot of the justification for it existing was around EPCOT which was supposed to be an experimental city, not a theme park.

It is a massive governance and tax break to a major corporation than now Paul Krugman thinks is threat to democracy. The Democrats NOW think eliminating tax breaks to large corporations is bad….more specifically just this large corporation?

Democrats also think Elon Musk who they love for electric cars is a threat to Democracy because he bought Twitter and he might allow free speech and free speech is a threat to Democracy.

It’s a crazy world we live in.

Disclaimer: I like RCID. I like Disney. RCID is a former client of mine and that project was super fun!
MACS Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 74,941
NYT - another biased opinion. LOL!
Sunoverbeach Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 10,737
Speyside2 wrote:
Ya know I actually wrote up that list. Unfortunately I lost it. Writing in invisible ink was a bad idea.

That is a play off an old SW few liner. Is that sort of what you mean?

This place right now reminds me of 2 elephants conjoined at the trunk. They can't trumpet like a normal elephant. They try but only go "Nork" and their eyes get really big.

TC

Exactomundo! Feel the happiness flow within you
RayR Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,436
Right on HD.

And Krugman is as crazy as they come.

Everything not in line with the Democrat's schemes is a threat to duhmacracy.
Krugman didn't say anything about indoctrinating yoots with wokism and denying parents a say in their kid's education was a threat to duhmacracy...so I guess that stuff is pro-duhmacracy!



frankj1 Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
no fear of retribution from government for publicly disagreeing?
Smells like convenience and hypocrisy.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 10,737
I just don't want to die alone, that's all. That's not too much to ask for, is it It would be nice to have someone care about me, for who I am, not about my wallet.
- RP
RayR Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,436
How predictable....On Musk purchasing Twitter:

Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren called the purchase “dangerous for our democracy,”

Tim Allen Celebrates Twitter Freedom with 3 Words About Biden Twitter Didn't Want Us to See Before Musk Buyout

Hunter. Biden. Laptop

https://www.westernjournal.com/tim-allen-celebrates-twitter-freedom-3-words-biden-twitter-didnt-want-us-see-musk-buyout/





frankj1 Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
Ray supports government punishing dissension from corporations?

Anyone else not surprised?
rfenst Online
#120 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,625
frankj1 wrote:
no fear of retribution from government for publicly disagreeing?
Smells like convenience and hypocrisy.

The smell is the burning of Disney, which brings at least *I think* 10 million people or more to central florida each year and is the major engine of the region's economy.

Who is going to be responsible for all the miles and miles and miles of Disney roads and bridges, and infrastructure maintenance and construction?

Why frank with something so important that has worked so well for so long- when nothing has changed but the expression of political free speech- of the highest order under the first amendment.

Why did this suddenly require a special session? Nothing but an overbearing, shiv in the back, sham for not simply falling in line and speaking out.

I believe it to be pure political theater.
HockeyDad Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
Sunoverbeach wrote:
I just don't want to die alone, that's all. That's not too much to ask for, is it It would be nice to have someone care about me, for who I am, not about my wallet.
- RP


“I hate false advertising, like 'Skittles: taste the rainbow.' No one's ever been like, 'Rainbow, right you guys?' Or what's Reese's? 'There's no wrong way to eat a Reese's.' Oh, really? Tell that to my uncle who used to put them in my underwear. Alright, maybe your uncles didn't love you.” ~ Amy Schumer
HockeyDad Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
frankj1 wrote:
no fear of retribution from government for publicly disagreeing?
Smells like convenience and hypocrisy.


Like the oil industry?

Don’t the Democrats also hate too big to fail banks?

Don’t the Democrats also hate big pharma?


Corporations don’t publicly disagree. They spend a ****-ton on lobbying. That was Disney’s mistake. Normally they spend millions in Florida to get what they want.
HockeyDad Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
rfenst wrote:

Who is going to be responsible for all the miles and miles and miles of Disney roads and bridges, and infrastructure maintenance and construction?
.


I have it on good information that every house in Orange County could be facing a property tax increase of $11,000 per year.
rfenst Online
#124 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,625
HockeyDad wrote:
Corporations don’t publicly disagree. They spend a ****-ton on lobbying. That was Disney’s mistake. Normally they spend millions in Florida to get what they want.

They DID publicly and vocally disagree (not soon enough). And, Disney threatened to withhold political contributions to supporters of the bill- with elections starting in like just a few months.

No economic analysis, no hearings, evidence or testimony, no bill regarding this during the regular legislative session either that was 60-days long and just ended.

No negotiations with Disney to work this out amicably with sufficient of time. No, let's just set fire to the Mouse to stay in good standing with DeSantis.

This is not a Democrat/Republican issue. It's pure First Amendment in my mind.
rfenst Online
#125 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,625
MACS wrote:
NYT - another biased opinion. LOL!

MACS, did you even read it or did you merely dismiss it because it was simply NYT?
MACS Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 74,941
It's the NYT. Everything about that "news" paper is biased propaganda.
RayR Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,436
frankj1 wrote:
Ray supports government punishing dissension from corporations?

Anyone else not surprised?


Who are you? The one who is building a straw man?
Are you B-G-Z in disguise? Think


Speyside2 Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 1,863
No Frank, I am not surprised in the least. When it favors his beliefs Draconian measures from a Dictator are just fine. I feel sorry for Robert about the massive property tax increase he will see if Disney stays open, or the massive unemployment rate if they bail.

Realistically the bill has multiple problems. If you read the initial special districts bill, and the new bill, the new bill is illegal. Also freedom of speech is being violated. As there are many religions that accept all people with open arms I think a case could be made that freedom of religion is being violated due to extreme interference with members of certain churches.

If this does happen DeSantis has lost. Based on the massive tax increases that will be needed or the massive unemployment, there will be a recall election and he will loose.

I doubt that he cares, he is aiming for the presidency. He has no interest in governing Florida in the best manner for the people of Florida. He is walking a slippery slope. In either of the above scenarios in my opinion he has no chance to carry a presidential election in Florida.

It will be interesting to watch this play out. Floridians loose in all scenarios other than the courts overruling this. Actually the 2020 and 2022 elections will be very interesting. Much of the south is alienating working proffesionals due to overriding a woman's right to self determination of her body and decreasing minorities ability to vote. This will ultimately cause a brain drain to the south due to relocation. This will then trigger loosing a significant percentage of jobs due to corporate relocation. There will be massive tax losses causing there to be many even poorer southern states. Mind you, all of this is only my opinion, but the above seems very plausible to me.
RayR Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,436
Spey...are you mad that DeSantis is against wokism? Are you mad that those crumby Disney authoritarian executives who also play footsy with Chicoms are under attack, mainly from consumers I would hope for creating a new Magic Kingdom where there are no Boys and Girls? Where maybe Micky is trans and Miney is a lesbian?
Does that all make you sad?
frankj1 Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
RayR wrote:
Spey...are you mad that DeSantis is against wokism? Are you mad that those crumby Disney authoritarian executives who also play footsy with Chicoms are under attack, mainly from consumers I would hope for creating a new Magic Kingdom where there are no Boys and Girls? Where maybe Micky is trans and Miney is a lesbian?
Does that all make you sad?

what it doesn't do is make what you hate most suddenly okay.
HockeyDad Offline
#131 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
Speyside2 wrote:
No Frank, I am not surprised in the least. When it favors his beliefs Draconian measures from a Dictator are just fine. I feel sorry for Robert about the massive property tax increase he will see if Disney stays open, or the massive unemployment rate if they bail.

Realistically the bill has multiple problems. If you read the initial special districts bill, and the new bill, the new bill is illegal. Also freedom of speech is being violated. As there are many religions that accept all people with open arms I think a case could be made that freedom of religion is being violated due to extreme interference with members of certain churches.

If this does happen DeSantis has lost. Based on the massive tax increases that will be needed or the massive unemployment, there will be a recall election and he will loose.

I doubt that he cares, he is aiming for the presidency. He has no interest in governing Florida in the best manner for the people of Florida. He is walking a slippery slope. In either of the above scenarios in my opinion he has no chance to carry a presidential election in Florida.

It will be interesting to watch this play out. Floridians loose in all scenarios other than the courts overruling this. Actually the 2020 and 2022 elections will be very interesting. Much of the south is alienating working proffesionals due to overriding a woman's right to self determination of her body and decreasing minorities ability to vote. This will ultimately cause a brain drain to the south due to relocation. This will then trigger loosing a significant percentage of jobs due to corporate relocation. There will be massive tax losses causing there to be many even poorer southern states. Mind you, all of this is only my opinion, but the above seems very plausible to me.



I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

Ima go out on a limb here and say absolutely none of that happens. There will be no mass individual or corporate migration back to Cali, New York, and the rust belt.

Rfenst is just gonna need to find that extra $86K per year in property taxes or move to Massachusetts.
frankj1 Offline
#132 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
HockeyDad wrote:
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

Ima go out on a limb here and say absolutely none of that happens. There will be no mass individual or corporate migration back to Cali, New York, and the rust belt.

Rfenst is just gonna need to find that extra $86K per year in property taxes or move to Massachusetts.

there's no time to waste! taxes are going up by the post!!!
HockeyDad Offline
#133 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
I have it on good information that home values could have already fallen by 50%. The only option is to sell now and get out of Florida

Contact MACSW HockeyDad Realty and dump that property now!

The situation is fluid. Just like gender in K-3rd grade students who need critical sexuality instruction as per Disney.
Speyside2 Offline
#134 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 1,863
HD, I doubt that many other than the looney left want young children exposed to sexual education in any form at school. Read the bill, even an accurate synopsis of it. There are other parts that are Draconian, Victorian, and homofobic all at once. They need to go. This bill will never fly unless SCOTUS makes decisions on political affiliation as opposed to constitutional understanding.

Also, DeSantis has miscalculated in my opinion, the mouse has deeeeep pockets which they are more than willing to open for PACS during federal elections.
Speyside2 Offline
#135 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 1,863
Frank, could you be more specific about what Ray hates most? I think everything and everyone that doesn't align with his beliefs are hated equally. Though you are right, he is 2 faced in regards to what he hates. It is never about principles, only alignment with his views. Honestly I doubt he will ever change. It would be interesting to understand what made him become who he is. I suspect it is something from his childhood, sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse, suppression of who he really is, ore some such thing. Pure conjuncture on my part, though I imagine he would be a worthwhile psychological study to understand what went wrong so as to learn from it.
HockeyDad Offline
#136 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
I have it on good information that RayR could even hate Liechtenstein and Switzerland. The land of Lindor chocolate and assault rifles in every home.
ZRX1200 Offline
#137 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,150
Draconian is using administrative “law” and bypassing voters and shielding certain people……
HockeyDad Offline
#138 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
Speyside2 wrote:
HD, I doubt that many other than the looney left want young children exposed to sexual education in any form at school. Read the bill, even an accurate synopsis of it. There are other parts that are Draconian, Victorian, and homofobic all at once. They need to go. This bill will never fly unless SCOTUS makes decisions on political affiliation as opposed to constitutional understanding.

Also, DeSantis has miscalculated in my opinion, the mouse has deeeeep pockets which they are more than willing to open for PACS during federal elections.


Young people in K-3 grades NEED to be be exposed to sexuality education. Specifically gay sexuality. That is the outrage against the “Don’t Say Gay” law. That is the hill to die on and the Democrats and Disney climbed up it. Granted, mainstream Democrats polled are actually in favor of the law and don’t want their kids getting taught about “Tranny Tuesday!” but this is where leadership forced you to go.

As far as the Supreme Court making decisions on political leaning and not the Constitution, isn’t that exactly why the Democrats want to expand and pack the Supreme Court? NOW it’s bad!

Disney has deep pockets because they carefully navigate how to play to both sides. Now they very publicly picked a side and that may affect their deep pockets. Do you think Disney makes more money as Gay Disney, Straight Disney, or just Disney?

Do you know how expensive it will be to move a castle? A franking castle!
HockeyDad Offline
#139 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,095
ZRX1200 wrote:
Draconian is using administrative “law” and bypassing voters and shielding certain people……


We do that out here all the time! California Covid State of Emergency: Day 757
ZRX1200 Offline
#140 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,150
I think they’re gonna have all the fairies fly it somewhere Mellow
MACS Offline
#141 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 74,941
ZRX1200 wrote:
I think they’re gonna have all the fairies fly it somewhere Mellow


Hey, whoa... I don't think fairies is a word we're using anymore. They have pronouns and stuff. LGBTQ+ or something.

Don't say ghey, or pfag of fairy... get wit da program.

Oh... wait... you were talking about the actual fairies? I'll need a ruling from the leftists mafia, but I think you still may be in trouble because they'll take it out of context and cancel you.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#142 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 51,995
rfenst wrote:
Anyone who reads this whole article and still thinks Desantis did something good for Florida is a franking idiot.


LOL!

So, does that trick work in court? It doesn't work here. Bunch of ifs, coulds and woulds but we're supposed to not only take on that slimeball newspapers take on something but believe you too? Naw. You're DEAD WRONG on this one and something tells me deep down you know it too. The "naive" act about it being about even teaching sex ed is flat got nothing to do with what this is all about. Besides, why would you even want to teach a 5-8 year old about sex to begin with? They're a mile away from puberty and have a lot of growing up to do before putting the Birds and he Bees talk on them, much less why does my teacher Miss Michelle have a mustache and arms like a fullback!

It's pretty funny that you were the one that never read the bill that started all of this and still haven't. You think this about sex ed and are fine with teaching it to children in K-3rd grade?!? Those kids are still learning the alphabet, how to read, and write with crayons. That's not enough...NO, you want to sexualize children with homosexuality and whatever transgenderism? That's what the bill stops cold in its feet. That's what Disney was cooking up as well as trying to take on Florida politicians and Florida laws. The CEO put himself smack dab into the fray by saying he was going to take on the politicians and have the "Don't Say Gay" (even though the word gay isn't even in the 7 pages) bill. So, like it's been pointed out on the thread that a corporation is evil except when they want to sex up children.

At first I was willing to cut some slack and that perhaps you didn't read the bill but given your other thread about contact lenses...maybe you can't read. It's 7 pages and we went over it before. I showed you where it targeted early elementary school children and you STILL want to believe Disney is the "good guy" here?

Nope. They got exposed for the dark and sinister manner they were behaving in the shadows. as for the rest of that NY Times trash, they haven't even dug that deep and are not involved in the discussion unwrapping the Reedy Creek sweetheart deal Disney held for over 50 years. You're crying about having to pay higher taxes and they haven't paid hardly ANY, much less maintain the same compliance that the other parks and anyone else filing a permit to build something...anything!

No, not only did our governor and the other politicians that voted for this did something good...they did something great. Something that a lot of local politicians have wanted to do but didn't have the guts to do. Disney and Co. simply made it easier by playing politics and trying to not only have it their way...but their way too. Not yours.

DrMaddVibe Offline
#143 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 51,995
Yanking Privileges For Disney Isn’t ‘Revenge’ Or An Attack On Free Speech, It’s The Least Florida Can Do



Taking away public subsidies from a company that openly fights on behalf of child mutilation is a very low bar, and only moral barbarians would oppose it.


After Disney’s attempt to pressure Florida’s legislature into stopping an anti-pedophilia law resulted in the legislature re-examining Disney’s legal privileges, some pundits on the right complained. Charles Cooke and Jason Lee Steorts of National Review argued Florida’s energy in protecting children from state-sponsored grooming constituted “misguided” “retribution.”

Steorts even called it a “soft-authoritarian temper-tantrum.” “This was a use of state power to punish private speech,” Steorts claimed.

Erstwhile Donald Trump lawyer (and sometime Federalist author) Jenna Ellis joined the critics on social media into this week, also taking the free-speech absolutist angle. Of course, so did David French. Daily Wire Co-CEO Jeremy Boreing voiced some hesitancy as well.

These commentators argued that while it’s fine to reconsider Disney’s crony capitalist carveouts, it is not fine to do so right after Disney attempted to apply maximum political pressure against the authorities who control those carveouts. That, they claimed, would be “retaliation” against Disney’s “right to free speech.”

In other words, Disney can play hardball, but that game must remain one-sided. Because procedures and norms must always only be applied in one direction: left.

This is a gross misunderstanding of not only what’s at stake in this episode, which is really about a reorientation of the right’s political power to serve the right’s voters and values. It is also a gross misunderstanding of the Founders’ view of free speech, of the purposes of political power, and of the use of the virtue of prudence in political affairs.

The point of government is justice. And it is not just to allow the powerful to openly advocate for child mutilation and soul rape. So any political philosophy that claims we must simply allow this to happen is at best incomplete and at worst evil.

I am not arguing that these commentators support child grooming, of course; only that their political philosophy is warped if it cannot find a way to justly restrain public encouragement for child mutilation. The Founders’ view of free speech never would have allowed for such a clear abuse of that right. There are indeed proper limits on free speech; and they include using it to openly advocate atrocities against children. Some public sanction is certainly appropriate in this case, and it is not a violation of free speech rights to provide it.

Even if one were to concede that the most important value at stake here is free speech instead of forcing taxpayers to assist groomers in recruiting children to mutilate, Florida’s response to Disney was not retaliation. It was a proportionate, even mild, response to significant political pressure exerted by a private special interest.

Cooke even responded to those pointing out that Disney’s carveouts violate even the barebones, “free-market” kind of conservatism by calling that argument “an extreme form of gaslighting.” What’s actually gaslighting is telling people on the right that we have to be more concerned about a view of free speech that the people who wrote the Constitution would abhor instead of the fact that the political left, backed by the globe’s biggest and most powerful economic actors, will fight tooth and nail to ensure that creepers can talk to little kids about sex without their parents knowing.

Let’s be clear here. DeSantis has not banned Disney from Twitter, nor from Facebook, nor from any platform whatsoever. He hasn’t banned them from talking with lawmakers, nor from testifying on bills. Every Floridian employed by Disney who is a U.S. citizen remains free to equally access both the polls and his elected representatives.

Disney remains completely free to use all legal public and private forums it wishes to promote sex talk with children. Its access to free speech and the public square remains unfettered (unlike the only president of the United States alive to not have started a foreign war).

What’s “gaslighting” is to suggest that revoking legal privileges — not constitutional or natural rights, mind you, but special and exclusive legal privileges not available to others on an equal basis — is anything but the mildest of responses to Disney’s reprehensible use of its speech to protect and promote child mutilation.

It is not Florida that has broken its deal with Disney, it’s Disney that has broken its deal with the people of Florida. Corporations get special economic privileges because they claim to provide the public some good in exchange. There’s plenty more to the public good than bringing in revenue.

One extremely important public good is not talking to first graders about cutting off their breasts and penises, or psychologically damaging them with lies about what it means to be a man or woman. If one wanted to get technical, one’s right to life supercedes one’s right to speech; and children’s rights matter more than adults’ precisely because they cannot defend themselves either with speech or with force.

Disney chose to make it public that they support ravaging children, against the human rights and the interests of all Floridians and all human beings everywhere. They had a deal with Floridians to benefit children, and they broke that deal, disgustingly and proudly, in full daylight. Let it be upon their own heads, and let Florida’s legislature see that it is so.

In addition: A corporation is comprised of citizens, and it is not legally appointed to speak for anyone politically. We speak for ourselves, through the ballot box and our own speech and assembly. It is not up to a corporation to seize its employees’ or shareholders’ free speech rights. Rights are individual, not collective. They belong equally and individually to citizens, not to special interests that falsely claim to speak for others.

Like anyone else, Disney’s managers also may not use their speech or economic position as coercion: to effectively silence the political speech of their employees, customers, and shareholders. Disney didn’t merely attempt to speak, it attempted to coerce. It attempted to outvote the voters of Florida with a big name and a lot of money.

The state of Florida rejected that unilateral and disproportionate control of their public affairs by one private institution. Bully for them. The rest of us would hate Republicans a lot less if they all acted like this.

Besides a lack of understanding of the philosophy of the Founders who wrote our Constitution that ensures free speech in the context of its employment on behalf of the public good, what these commentators and the Republicans who use their sad arguments as fig leaves for cowardice so sadly misunderstand is the critical political virtue of prudence. Prudence means wisely applying one’s principles to the matter at hand, and judiciously deciding which principles to prioritize and in what order.

Obviously, the principle to apply here is the one that says sexually manipulating children is a gross evil, and no argument or law can be legitimately made in its defense. If the way you apply your principles results in forcing taxpayers to pay people to tell six-year-olds it’s glorious to mutilate their bodies, you need to get your philosophical house in order right quick.

Prudence is the essence of that New-Right phrase, “What time is it?” This phrase calls for applying our enduring constitutional principles in ways that befit the needs and threats of the moment and that seem likely to succeed in restoring a more constitutional public order. A clear tell for lacking prudence is sticking to inflexible and abstract free speech theories that allow for encouraging children to be mind-raped at public expense.

The people who vote to preserve what’s left of our constitutional rights and the natural order are not second-class citizens. We have a right to use legitimately acquired power for the truly understood good of the people.

In fact, we have more of a right to use power than do those who use it to erase our natural rights. We also rightly expect public officials to fight fiercely to preserve a just society, which includes not publicly subsidizing the advocacy of child mutilation.

Just as in foreign policy, we get peace in the culture war through strength, through imposing costs for attacks on the constitutionally understood social order. Not through inaction, cowardice, or appeasement. Taking away public subsidies from a company that openly fights on behalf of child mutilation is a very low bar to clear, and it’s not at all “principled” to oppose that.

https://thefederalist.com/2022/04/27/yanking-privileges-for-disney-isnt-revenge-or-an-attack-on-free-speech-its-the-least-florida-can-do/
RMAN4443 Offline
#144 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,658
MACS wrote:
Hey, whoa... I don't think fairies is a word we're using anymore. They have pronouns and stuff. LGBTQ+ or something.



Think

Goin' home, late last night
Suddenly I got a fright
Yeah I looked through a window and surprised what I saw
A fairy with boots and dancin' with a dwarf
All right now

Yeah, fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
Yeah I saw it, I saw it, I tell you no lies
Yeah Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
I saw it, I saw it with my own two eyes
Oh all right now!

Yeah, fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
Yeah I saw it, I saw it, I tell you no lies
Yeah fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
I saw it, I saw it with my own two eyes,
All right now!

So I went to the doctor, see what he could give me
He said son, son, you've gone too far
'Cause smokin' and trippin' is all that you do
Yeah
ZRX1200 Offline
#145 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,150
Doesn’t Tinkerbell have friends and family?
frankj1 Offline
#146 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
pretty sure Robert posted the bill, or one proposed version of it, a couple of months ago.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#147 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 51,995
frankj1 wrote:
pretty sure Robert posted the bill, or one proposed version of it, a couple of months ago.



Go back and read that thread as well as this one.

Seriously.

If anyone wants take on that bill, its intention and its meaning...they need to check themselves in a mirror because they're not wired right.
frankj1 Offline
#148 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
ya know, like who ya like. It's all good in America. In fact it's safer for both of us to allow for it.

But never lose perspective that even a benevolent dictator is bad in the bigger picture.

He is punishing dissent. In this case you are on his side of the issue at hand. Cool. But never support punishing dissent.

As my father taught me, you don't want to get everything you want, son. That's when you are part of the repression of the minority.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#149 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 51,995
Explains a lot.

Sarcasm

I'm not going to defend groomers of children or the sitting President for what he does to children either.
frankj1 Offline
#150 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,506
groomers is fake news.
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