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DeSantis vs. Disney
RiverRatRuss Offline
#351 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
rfenst wrote:
False.

I don't need a politically, state-appointed, board of directors to approve the pledge or sale of my home or other properties. Do you?

Tom, what explanation do you have for changing a constitutional land agreement that has worked well for so many years, besides social politics?



Robert, this is EXACTLY what I have been dealing with this City about for 2+ years and Now, they wanna Appologize and promise me and the city tax payers "Transparent Government and work a deal so I wont Squeal... only to find out hours after leaving a meeting with an Alderman that they'd been screwing a senior citizen property owner out of her land the way it's been practiced on this zoning board and Coiucil for decades, they just stepped their game up and rather, send property owners Notice to clean up their property or, be fined $100.00 an hour for city workers to do so, your straight into court with Summons's and fines to force you to submit!!! this womans (Prominet Local Farmer) just got out of extended living to return home after a stroke (March 1st) her last court date on hearings was 1/30/2023 and she and her attorney were ready to settle to move on, but yet the asking price on her property was still to high for 3 potential buyers (one said buyers interested is a sitting Alderman) but not one ALderman would listen to her complaints prior to her court hearings. and the City Attorney pushed her next hearing date up to 05/08/ 2023 and they don't know why?
City Attorney would not give them an answer as to why the shift?

https://tinyurl.com/4auvk4xj

I directed her to the Attorney Generals Senior Complaint division I also seen and have copies of her situation I am presenting to the Council in my Rebuttal Finally to my rezoning issues. and going to fix her property complaints, giving her an itemized staement and drawing of materials list and cost on Labor. I told her the fallen pine tree in the yard I will remove and take the larger part of the trunk to my sawer and saw it to build her a Flag Case and Certificate frame, she started crying with Joy, her Nephew during his Combat Deployment had gotten her a Flag years back when war was ongoing!!! Herfing

RiverRatRuss Offline
#352 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
drglnc wrote:
We always go for multi Day park hopper passes...
5-Day With the Park Hopper Option: $369 plus tax per person so $74 per day (Military retire pricing)


Just purchased for August for a Group of 7...


In 2000 I was passing through Ocoee Fl where family lives and my Dad was the last time we hung out together, so he road Bitch on the back of my Harley for a couple days, one of those days he and I went to Disney to see the Epcot Globe.. My Dad was a Union Sheetmetals man worked on the Globe when it was built, we toured mainly Epcot Center as he explained his work he'd done there...Herfing Herfing

Dad Passed in April of 2001
HockeyDad Offline
#353 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
rfenst wrote:
False.

I don't need a politically, state-appointed, board of directors to approve the pledge or sale of my home or other properties. Do you?

Tom, what explanation do you have for changing a constitutional land agreement that has worked well for so many years, besides social politics?


RCID has no authority to approve the pledge or sale of property nor does the new district that replaced it. You’ve invented a false outrage. Think of RCID as the exact same thing as Orange County except the commissioners were appointed by Disney instead of elected. Can Orange County stop the sale of your property? Can Orange County approve or deny things you want to do with your property? Can Orange County tax you? Does Orange County provide fire and police? Does Orange County provide utilities? Does Orange County build and maintain roads?

RCID got replaced absolutely over social politics. Disney had a very special government arrangement that no other business in the state had and they decided to publicly enter politics over their desire for transsexual education for K-3rd grade. Disney started the war with the state.

Now you have a new special district. It has all the same powers and functions as RCID except Disney does not get to appoint its board. It did lose the right to build an airport and a nuclear power plant.
drglnc Offline
#354 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 706
RiverRatRuss wrote:
In 2000 I was passing through Ocoee Fl where family lives and my Dad was the last time we hung out together, so he road Bitch on the back of my Harley for a couple days, one of those days he and I went to Disney to see the Epcot Globe.. My Dad was a Union Sheetmetals man worked on the Globe when it was built, we toured mainly Epcot Center as he explained his work he'd done there...Herfing Herfing

Dad Passed in April of 2001



Glad you got to have that Experience and Memory with him. Mine passed almost 15 years ago now and you can never have enough memories. My Wife's Parents are getting up in age so we are going in August with them so my wifes whole fam (us with out daughter and her 2 brothers) can get some of those good times in before it is 2 late.
rfenst Offline
#355 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
drglnc wrote:
Glad you got to have that Experience and Memory with him. Mine passed almost 15 years ago now and you can never have enough memories. My Wife's Parents are getting up in age so we are going in August with them so my wifes whole fam (us with out daughter and her 2 brothers) can get some of those good times in before it is 2 late.

Those types of experiences and memories are priceless!
rfenst Offline
#356 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
HockeyDad wrote:
RCID has no authority to approve the pledge or sale of property nor does the new district that replaced it. You’ve invented a false outrage. Think of RCID as the exact same thing as Orange County except the commissioners were appointed by Disney instead of elected. Can Orange County stop the sale of your property? Can Orange County approve or deny things you want to do with your property? Can Orange County tax you? Does Orange County provide fire and police? Does Orange County provide utilities? Does Orange County build and maintain roads?

RCID got replaced absolutely over social politics. Disney had a very special government arrangement that no other business in the state had and they decided to publicly enter politics over their desire for transsexual education for K-3rd grade. Disney started the war with the state.

Now you have a new special district. It has all the same powers and functions as RCID except Disney does not get to appoint its board. It did lose the right to build an airport and a nuclear power plant.

Thank you for confirming it was all political and not business- other than the state breaking its long-standing, relied upon, stable constitutional agreement (contract), with the state.

As to Disney's involvement in politics, that is nothing new. They have taken political/social stands for decades. They also donate a chit-ton of money to whichever politicians are in power.

I have zero problems with Disney paying taxes on its profits tom both Orange and Osceola counties for the services they provide- in addition to the hotel tax they collect due to Disney's presence here. But, neither can move quickly enough to approve new Disney roads and infrastructure.

I don't know what types of real estate and lending you have been involved with, but this is a true property right/eminent domain taking in my eyes, and a truly politically motivated issue and nothing more. When things are working fine, don't F with them.



(You and I have herfed together many times, had long, direct discussions about national and international politics, and other hot issues. You have even been to my home. We have always respected our opposing views- and I always had a good time, despite our disagreements. I just wish others here were capable of this like you are. But, sometimes I expect too much from others...)
frankj1 Offline
#357 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
rfenst wrote:
Thank you for confirming it was all political and not business- other than the state breaking its long-standing, relied upon, stable constitutional agreement (contract), with the state.

As to Disney's involvement in politics, that is nothing new. They have taken political/social stands for decades. They also donate a chit-ton of money to whichever politicians are in power.

I have zero problems with Disney paying taxes on its profits tom both Orange and Osceola counties for the services they provide- in addition to the hotel tax they collect due to Disney's presence here. But, neither can move quickly enough to approve new Disney roads and infrastructure.

I don't know what types of real estate and lending you have been involved with, but this is a true property right/eminent domain taking in my eyes, and a truly politically motivated issue and nothing more. When things are working fine, don't F with them.



(You and I have herfed together many times, had long, direct discussions about national and international politics, and other hot issues. You have even been to my home. We have always respected our opposing views- and I always had a good time, despite our disagreements. I just wish others here were capable of this like you are. But, sometimes I expect too much from others...)

enjoy those good times with the people with whom you disagree and ignore the toxic individuals who make up the minority of contributors here.

Imagine how short their poster life spans would be on sites so vastly opposed to their views on political/social issues as compared to people like you and me have carved out here.


RayR Offline
#358 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
frankj1 wrote:
enjoy those good times with the people with whom you disagree and ignore the toxic individuals who make up the minority of contributors here.

Imagine how short their poster life spans would be on sites so vastly opposed to their views on political/social issues as compared to people like you and me have carved out here.




You are like an angel Frank. 👼 I mean you'd have to be to put up with "toxic individuals" like me.
rfenst Offline
#359 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
frankj1 wrote:
enjoy those good times with the people with whom you disagree and ignore the toxic individuals who make up the minority of contributors here.

Imagine how short their poster life spans would be on sites so vastly opposed to their views on political/social issues as compared to people like you and me have carved out here.


Thank you. I will listen this time.
HockeyDad Offline
#360 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
rfenst wrote:


(You and I have herfed together many times, had long, direct discussions about national and international politics, and other hot issues. You have even been to my home. We have always respected our opposing views- and I always had a good time, despite our disagreements. I just wish others here were capable of this like you are. But, sometimes I expect too much from others...)


Currently planning a house hunting trip to Florida in April. We’re thinking new construction.
rfenst Offline
#361 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
HockeyDad wrote:
Currently planning a house hunting trip to Florida in April. We’re thinking new construction.

Might not be a bad time as construction here in Central Florida was booming before rates went up. There are probably a bunch of really nice unsold homes for sale everywhere in the state and builders/developers who are struggling big time now. Many simply over-stretched themselves when money was cheap. Just make sure there is no state appointed board to control your lot/land. Sarcasm
rfenst Offline
#362 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
DeSantis’ Reedy Creek board says Disney stripped its power


Orlando Sentinel

LAKE BUENA VISTA — Gov. Ron DeSantis’ handpicked board overseeing Disney World’s government services is gearing up for a potential legal battle over a 30-year development agreement they say effectively renders them powerless to manage the entertainment giant’s future growth in Central Florida.

Ahead of an expected state takeover, the Walt Disney Co. quietly pushed through the pact and restrictive covenants that would tie the hands of future board members for decades, according to a legal presentation by the district’s lawyers on Wednesday.

The Central Florida Tourism Oversight District’s new Board of Supervisors voted to bring in outside legal firepower to examine the agreement, including a conservative Washington, D.C., law firm that has defended several of DeSantis’ culture war priorities.

“We’re going to have to deal with it and correct it,” board member Brian Aungst Jr. said. “It’s a subversion of the will of the voters and the Legislature and the governor. It completely circumvents the authority of this board to govern.”

Disney defended its actions.

“All agreements signed between Disney and the district were appropriate and were discussed and approved in open, noticed public forums in compliance with Florida’s Government in the Sunshine law,” an unsigned company statement read.

Taryn Fenske, a DeSantis spokeswoman, called the move “last-ditch efforts” to transfer “rights and authorities” from the district to Disney.

“An initial review suggests these agreements may have significant legal infirmities that would render the contracts void as a matter of law,” Fenske said in a prepared statement. “We are pleased the new governor-appointed board retained multiple financial and legal firms to conduct audits and investigate Disney’s past behavior.”

The previous board, which was known as the Reedy Creek Improvement District and controlled by Disney, approved the agreement on Feb. 8, the day before the Florida House voted to put the governor in charge.

Board members held a public meeting that day but spent little time discussing the document before unanimously approving it in a brief meeting.

DeSantis replaced those Disney-allied board members with five Republicans on Feb. 27, who discovered the binding agreement the previous board approved.

DeSantis and Disney clashed over the corporation’s opposition to what critics call the “don’t say gay” law, which limits classroom instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity in public schools.

The new DeSantis-aligned board expressed dismay over the previous board’s actions.

“This essentially makes Disney the government,” board member Ron Peri said. “This board loses, for practical purposes, the majority of its ability to do anything beyond maintaining the roads and maintaining basic infrastructure.”

Among other things, a “declaration of restrictive covenants” spells out that the district is barred from using the Disney name without the corporation’s approval or “fanciful characters such as Mickey Mouse.”

That declaration is valid until “21 years after the death of the last survivor of the descendants of King Charles III, king of England,” according to the document. (Rule of Perpetuities)

A development agreement allows Disney to build projects at the highest density and the right to sell or assign those development rights to other district landowners without the board having any say, according to the presentation by the district’s new special legal counsel.

Disney and its affiliates own the vast majority of the land in the district, and other companies have operated there with the corporation’s blessing.

The development agreement bars the board from regulating the height of buildings, which would be solely under the purview of the Federal Aviation Administration.

The previous board also agreed to give Disney vast authority over its own buildings, according to its declaration. The agreement states that Disney must review any exterior changes to the district’s buildings to ensure consistent “theming” with Disney World.

Aungst said he is hopeful Disney will work with the board and correct the agreement in a “very collaborative manner.”

But board members also approved hiring four outside law firms with Chairman Martin Garcia citing a need for “lawyers that have extensive experience in dealing with protracted litigation against Fortune 500 companies.”

One of those firms is Cooper & Kirk, which has gotten more than $2.8 million in legal fees and contracts from the DeSantis administration to defend a controversial social media law, a ban on cruise ship COVID-19 “vaccine passport” requirements, and a restriction on felons seeking to vote.

Cooper & Kirk’s lawyers will bill $795 an hour, according to the firm’s engagement letter. The boutique firm’s roster of lawyers includes Adam Laxalt, who roomed with DeSantis when he was training at the Naval Justice School in 2005 and made an unsuccessful bid for U.S. Senate last year in Nevada.

The firm’s alumni include Republican U.S. Sens. Ted Cruz of Texas and Tom Cotton of Arkansas.

The board also approved bringing on Lawson Huck Gonzalez, a law firm that was launched earlier this year. One of its founders is Alan Lawson, a retired Florida Supreme Court justice.

The board approved two local firms as well — Nardella & Nardella and Waugh Grant.

Those firms were needed because of the vast legal resources Disney has at its disposal, Garcia said.

“What it looks like to me [is that] because Disney has the Magic Kingdom, they thought they could be king for a day,” he said.
whip







(Told you all before that this was a real property issue. Now it will get tied up in the courts well beyond DeSantis' governorship, unless Reedy Creek's new board or the state can get some type of Temporary Restraining Order, which IMNSHO won't happen.)
HockeyDad Offline
#363 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
Disney desperately tried to maintain their unique status at the last second. I like it. Disney now directly has significant property rights that are unique to Disney that no person or company in the state has at least for now. They used to have those rights through RCID that nobody in the state had.

The new district should collect the fees and pay off the debt. Until that is done, no new roads, no widening, no new water, sewer, or electricity hook-ups. Pay off the debt before anything new or just dissolve itself at that point. Disney can then annex and rebuild under their cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista which were set up back at the beginning as a back-up to keep Orlando or Kissimmee from annexing.

The funny part is the district can’t use the Disney name or characters. When I did consulting work for Reedy Creek the RCID employees wore name badges identical to anyone working in the party. If they were in a park (which we would do for lunch) with their badge on and were asked a question by a guest, they had to assist. Once a year they had to trade jobs with someone in a park for a day. Hardly sounds like an independent government!

DrMaddVibe Offline
#364 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
Couldn't happen to a better bunch of groomers.

rfenst Offline
#365 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
HockeyDad wrote:
Disney desperately tried to maintain their unique status at the last second. I like it. Disney now directly has significant property rights that are unique to Disney that no person or company in the state has at least for now. They used to have those rights through RCID that nobody in the state had.

The new district should collect the fees and pay off the debt. Until that is done, no new roads, no widening, no new water, sewer, or electricity hook-ups. Pay off the debt before anything new or just dissolve itself at that point. Disney can then annex and rebuild under their cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista which were set up back at the beginning as a back-up to keep Orlando or Kissimmee from annexing.

The funny part is the district can’t use the Disney name or characters. When I did consulting work for Reedy Creek the RCID employees wore name badges identical to anyone working in the party. If they were in a park (which we would do for lunch) with their badge on and were asked a question by a guest, they had to assist. Once a year they had to trade jobs with someone in a park for a day. Hardly sounds like an independent government!



As a lawyer, I see it as a brilliant strategic move. Knew from the beginning it would end up in court. Totality of the legal strategy and sandbagging make me LOVE IT! And, every lawyer who has posted about it on my legal list serve, including even the far-right ones, are impressed with the strategy- and many of them are also fervent anti-Disney DeSantis supporters.

Disney's debt is none of our business, just like its profits and other financials aren't (unless you are in the stock market for Disney). It is a private business just like any other private business. It, and it alone owns that land. And, it may needs new additional infrastructure on its own land, subject to codes- let's not quibble about which code(s) should apply yet.

The lawyers hired by the state are uber expensive and will end up billing us for millions upon millions over the years.

And, since everything was filed BEFORE the bill became law, even though to work-around the coming new law, what Disney did was legit.

I can see a case like this going to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Lastly, laws cannot be applied to conduct- after the fact. .You cannot apply a new law retroactively. Look up [/u]ex-post facto law[u]s if you are interested... Herfing
DrMaddVibe Offline
#366 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
rfenst wrote:
As a lawyer, I see it as a brilliant strategic move. Knew from the beginning it would end up in court. Totality of the legal strategy and sandbagging make me LOVE IT! And, every lawyer who has posted about it on my legal list serve, including even the far-right ones, are impressed with the strategy- and many of them are also fervent anti-Disney DeSantis supporters.

Disney's debt is none of our business, just like its profits and other financials aren't (unless you are in the stock market for Disney). It is a private business just like any other private business. It, and it alone owns that land. And, it may needs new additional infrastructure on its own land, subject to codes- let's not quibble about which code(s) should apply yet.

The lawyers hired by the state are uber expensive and will end up billing us for millions upon millions over the years.

And, since everything was filed BEFORE the bill became law, even though to work-around the coming new law, what Disney did was legit.

I can see a case like this going to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Lastly, laws cannot be applied to conduct- after the fact. .You cannot apply a new law retroactively. Look up [/u]ex-post facto law[u]s if you are interested... Herfing


Disney is a public company contrary to your post. They have a board of directors like any other public company.

"The company, which has been public since 1940, trades on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) with ticker symbol DIS and has been a component of the Dow Jones Industrial Average since 1991. In August 2020, just under two-thirds of the stock was owned by large financial institutions."

The advantages Disney held...no other company had those exclusive and inclusive rights to operate under. Building entire parks, resorts as well as all of the infrastructure it took to do it multiple times over all while shirking the taxpaying citizens??? It's when the California based company decided vocally it was going to meddle in politics in the state of Florida with regards to a bill (you never read and pushed a narrative that it was anti-gay) that restricted the sexualization of children in public schools in this state grades K-3.

Disney has stated they don't plan to fight it. They probably should've stuck to what they used to do best which was entertain us. Instead they wanted to push LGBTQABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP garbage on ALL of their stations, on ALL of their shows, on ALL of their movies and would fund and fight any state that wouldn't allow them to do that. Their own words, not mine. That is twisted and perverse. They deserved to be stripped away of their special rights because they're a bad neighbor. How much did Sea World and Universal Studios have to pony up each and every time they added to their park or created a new one or resort? That was an unfair advantage that should never been allowed to begin with. Even with their clout, I wouldn't shed a single tear if they decided to shutter the entire place and move to another state that would allow them to do what they wanted and meddle in state politics. They're free to do what they want.
HockeyDad Offline
#367 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
My point was that Reedy Creek Irrigation District has 1 billion in debt for things it bought to service Disney. Not Disney debt. That was the real reason RCID could not be dissolved. Now it is the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District and it has that same $1 billion in debt. With that debt comes assets. Assets that can be sold.

The Disney employees who ran the RCID board transferred most power out to Disney and got very cute with the King Charles clause. They made themselves above the government. They didn’t transfer out the power to tax or to liquidate.

Raises taxes to pay off the debt quicker or just liquidate the entire district now. Those would make some nice toll roads!
rfenst Offline
#368 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
HockeyDad wrote:
My point was that Reedy Creek Irrigation District has 1 billion in debt for things it bought to service Disney. Not Disney debt. That was the real reason RCID could not be dissolved. Now it is the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District and it has that same $1 billion in debt. With that debt comes assets. Assets that can be sold.

The Disney employees who ran the RCID board transferred most power out to Disney and got very cute with the King Charles clause. They made themselves above the government. They didn’t transfer out the power to tax or to liquidate.

Raises taxes to pay off the debt quicker or just liquidate the entire district now. Those would make some nice toll roads!

The King Charles reference is not "cute." It is tactically necessary for proper legal reasons. Use of such language is S.O.P. to make the covenant run (enforceable) practically forever. That language does it.

21 years has a legal reason too- The Rule of Perpetuities. Read up on Ex Post Facto legal enforcement too if it interests you...

Rhetorically, maybe think about it this way: If you knew a new law was coming that would drastically change your tax liability once it comes into effect- wouldn't you re-arrange your assets to avoid or minimize the unavoidable loss you would incur, to your advantage, due to the new law?
rfenst Offline
#369 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
Anyone who believes Disney did not pay any and/or generate tax money to and for the state of Florida needs to do some Googling.
Reuters, Barons and WSJ might be a good places to start.
Snopes is way too easy.
frankj1 Offline
#370 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
rfenst wrote:
Anyone who believes Disney did not pay any and/or generate tax money to and for the state of Florida needs to do some Googling.
Reuters, Barons and WSJ might be a good places to start.
Snopes is way too easy.

it's too obvious for you to need to point the direction...
but I understand the audience.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#371 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
rfenst wrote:
Anyone who believes Disney did not pay any and/or generate tax money to and for the state of Florida needs to do some Googling.
Reuters, Barons and WSJ might be a good places to start.
Snopes is way too easy.



Look into the permitting of their parks and resorts Robert.

Too easy.
rfenst Offline
#372 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
Another perspective by someone who doesn't like Disney's uber status:


How Disney outfoxed DeSantis - and why it’s not all so funny
l
Orlando Sentinel

If you look at Mickey Mouse’s hands, you’ll notice he doesn’t have a middle finger. But if he did, he most surely flipped it at Ron DeSantis this past week.

Florida’s governor had told the world that he’d taken on Disney and won. But while DeSantis was busy tweeting, Disney operatives were busy working, quietly rewriting legal papers in an attempt to ensure the governor’s tough talk never amounted to anything more.

Basically, Disney was playing 4-D chess while the governor’s legal team was fumbling with a bag of checkers. And by the time Team DeSantis figured out what had happened Wednesday, its members could do little more than fume and pout.

DeSantis is so used to picking on easy targets — drag queens and transgender teenagers — that he wasn’t prepared to do battle with someone with the power to fight back.

It’s easy for DeSantis critics to laugh and scoff. Donald Trump certainly did, mocking his former protégé for getting bested by a cartoon mouse.

But the reality is that this whole situation stinks.

In fact, allow me to submit a perhaps unpopular take — that there are no purely good guys or motives in this fight.

Ron DeSantis and GOP lawmakers are trying to use bully power and petty politics to punish a private company for expressing opinions they dislike — in this case, Disney’s opinion that LGBTQ families should be treated like human beings.

But the petulant pols are so bad at what they do, they’ve proven themselves incapable of understanding the laws they’re trying to manipulate.

Still, Disney doesn’t deserve to run its own government. Many of us have argued as much for years. Unfortunately, lawmakers in this state have been happy to do Disney special favors for decades — as long as Disney cut them checks.

Just two years ago, DeSantis signed a law exempting Disney from a crackdown on social media companies after the company gave his political committee $50,000.

The ludicrous bill, which was invalidated by a federal judge who noted the special-interest favoritism, included a carve-out that exempted any company that “owns and operates a theme park.” DeSantis signed the bill less than two months after cashing Disney’s check and after records show his staffers swapped emails about the language Disney lobbyists wanted in the law.

DeSantis clearly did a favor for a corporate donor, blowing a castle-sized hole in the tough-on-corporations narrative he tries to peddle. In fact, a big part of why corporate America likes DeSantis is that they know he plays ball.

Still, those of us who never thought Disney deserved its own corporate kingdom might’ve still appreciated politicians doing the right thing for the wrong reason — except they were too incompetent to get it done.


First, lawmakers passed a bill that attempted to dissolve Disney’s Reedy Creek government district. But they hadn’t done their homework to understand current laws or that $1 billion or more worth of bonds were tied up in Disney’s self-controlled government. So they had to try again.

To show how you unprepared these people were, just read the two bills they passed.

The first focused on “dissolving certain independent special districts.”

The second said: “the Reedy Creek Improvement District is not dissolved as of June 1, 2023, but continues in full force and effect under its new name.”

So the second bill explicitly said they had not done the very thing they vowed to do in the first. My cat Leona has a better understanding of state statutes.

Also, the ultimate “solution” GOP lawmakers devised was not what they promised.[/h]

DeSantis had vowed to make Disney “follow the same laws every other company follows in the state of Florida.” I actually like that plan. That’s how it should’ve been all along. But that’s not what he did.

Instead, he put a group of hand-picked political appointees in charge of the private company. No other company in America works like that. DeSantis didn’t put Disney on the same footing as everyone else. He tried to put Disney under his own personal thumb. And Disney seems to have found a way to at least temporarily thwart him.

If these guys actually had a desire to do the right thing — before Disney cut them off financially — they wouldn’t have tried to twice ram through poorly thought-out laws. They would’ve asked a team of smart government-law experts to devise a way to sunset Disney’s special status in a logical, legal matter.


But logic has taken a beating in Tallahassee over the last two years as book-banning, pronoun-legislating and drag-queen-bashing have become the rage.

I don’t begrudge anyone who laughed at DeSantis last week for getting out-brained by a mouse. It was cringe-inducingly amusing to watch his campaign team stage a meltdown on Twitter, claiming that the governor’s clear loss was really a big win because (just you wait) the governor is always thinking “10 steps ahead.”

The governor’s own appointees had just admitted Disney had outsmarted them. Yet Team DeSantis was claiming it was all part of the master plan. Sure.

The reality is that taxpayers and good government are the big losers here.

The DeSantis appointees have already vowed to hire four different law firms to fight Disney, paying the politically connected barristers as much as $795 an hour. And at least for now, Disney gets to keep its special status.

So sure, laugh at DeSantis. But I’m still not rooting for Disney.

While the company has done some great philanthropic things in this community, it has also used money, power and even free park tickets to warp public policy in this state for decades. Everything from secret text messages with county commissioners to try to deny sick time for local workers to back-channel messaging with the governor’s staff to request special favors.


I’m not cheering for the powerful corporation or the pandering politicians. I’m rooting for good government that doesn’t cater to special interests — the one thing neither side seems to want.

[email protected]
ZRX1200 Offline
#373 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
His articles sure seem to have a theme…
HockeyDad Offline
#374 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
Liquidate the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District.
ZRX1200 Offline
#375 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
Ours does wonder representing two companies that own 98.2% of all hotels in getting taxpayers to fund boondoggles that help the two companies.
rfenst Offline
#376 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
Disney strips DeSantis of his fairy tale ending. Good.



Orlando Sentinel Editorial Board

Gov. Ron DeSantis has spent months (and an entire chapter of his new book) boasting about his victory over a “woke” corporation after demanding that the state Legislature yank the Reedy Creek Improvement District from under Walt Disney Company control.

Clearly, the governor thought he’d written the perfect fairy tale and cast himself as the hero — only to discover that Disney executives flipped the script.

In broad daylight, no less. Before it was infested with the governor’s band of political buddies, the Reedy Creek board signed binding contracts that transfer most of the control of district-owned facilities and future development back into Disney’s hands, and ban the district from using any Disney trademarks. Now the district, renamed the “Central Florida Tourism Oversight District,” appears to be just a payroll, a bundle of debt and tax levies that probably can’t be disturbed.

The governor’s response is classic DeSantis. He now wants to waste some of that money on a small army of very expensive attorneys in an effort to unwind those agreements.

In other words, DeSantis’ plan for the district he seized is to take tax money from Disney and use it to sue Disney, in an attempt to circumvent Disney’s control over land Disney owns.

Confused yet? We haven’t even gotten to the role of the Princess Lilibet, who lives in a magical, far-away land called Santa Barbara. (What’s a Disney story without a princess?)

Our story so far
Most Central Floridians remember how this spat started: During a special session of the Florida Legislature, Rep. Randy Fine introduced a sneak attack to abolish the Reedy Creek district. It was an apparent attempt to punish Disney executives for mild, belated criticism of DeSantis-backed bills, including attacks on diversity training and the so-called “Don’t Say Gay” bill, which targeted discussions of sexual orientation in schools. (Side note: Fine, a Brevard Republican, asserted last week that DeSantis has since urged him to apply to run Florida Atlantic University. We’re getting Jafar vibes off that one.)

Critics were quick to point out that there were a few reasons not to straight-up abolish the district. Or a billion: The district, created more than 50 years ago to give the company more control over its own permitting and planning for the 38.5 square miles of then-undeveloped land it had purchased, now carries about $1 billion in bond debt.

And some huge, real world responsibilities, including permitting, planning and critical utilities for Disney’s four theme parks, two water parks, a sports complex, a collection of hotels that total more than 40,000 guest rooms and Disney Springs, with its 24-screen movie theater, House of Blues and Cirque du Soleil. The district operates two incorporated cities, full-fledged fire and EVAC departments complete with cranky unions, 170 lane miles of roads, a huge electric plant and natural-gas distribution system, water and wastewater systems.

Many — including this editorial board — have been uneasy about the power that the Reedy Creek district allows Disney to wield, or the untold magnitude of tax payments it’s avoided over the years by taking advantage of its ability to issue government bonds. The district even had the authority (which it never used) to construct a nuclear power plant. But there’s no doubt that the company backed its power with its own cash. Its hand-picked board levied property taxes that are triple or quadruple what other Central Florida cities and counties charge — taxes that Disney was charging itself. Under the first 2022 legislation that would have abolished the board outright, that tax burden and bond debt could have transferred to Orange and Osceola taxpayers.

Without so much as an “oops, my bad,” DeSantis’ minions wrote another secret plan. During a special session in December, lawmakers obediently adopted it. The new legislation took few powers away from the district — but did wrest control from company hands and declared that DeSantis had sole authority to appoint the district’s board.

Unfortunately, those high-priced lawyers and DeSantis’ own staff apparently didn’t bother to pay attention to the agreements the old Reedy Creek board signed off on in the meetings before the state Legislature approved the governor’s hotheaded demands. We’re not sure why. The meetings were open to the public and duly noticed.

As members of those high-priced law firms explained, the old board enacted agreements that transfer most of the control back to the company. There’s also a contract that restricts the district from using any Disney trademarks or changing design aspects of any district-owned properties — ending any possibility of renaming Disney Springs’ parking garages “Ron” and “Casey.”

They were all approved in the Sunshine. They meet the deadlines the Legislature itself set — after the agreements were ratified. And they were rolled out well in advance of the June deadline the first Reedy Creek law set for abolishing the district.

There’s even a hidden Mickey: The restrictive covenants (in effect, a contract between the district and Disney) don’t expire until “21 years after the death of the last survivor of the descendants of King Charles III, king of England living as of the date of this declaration,” a legal (yet delightful) maneuver to protect it against challenges. That’s where Lilibet, the toddler daughter of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, comes into play: She turns two in June. And as the Sentinel’s Jeff Weiner points out, Windsors tend to live a very long time.

Through a spokesperson, DeSantis declared that the new district will rev up its pricey legal superpower and wrest back control, fulminating about “significant legal infirmities” but failing to identify any, and complaining about last-minute maneuvers after launching not one, but two sneak attacks on a publicly held corporation. We suspect he’s living in Fantasyland.

A word to DeSantis
And that’s where this ride should end.

This was a foolish, petty and ultimately selfish political vendetta that could have ended up far worse. If Disney executives had responded to DeSantis in the same vengeful vein — by pulling back even a small fraction of the resources the company has invested in Florida — the economic wreckage could have been massive. Instead, company executives and district officials stayed quiet, bided their time and executed a plan that is both elegant and witty.

From now on, Gov. DeSantis, save your tantrums for your taxpayer-funded mansion and endless trips to court donors and rally support in other states.

Whenever you happen to be in Florida, focus on your actual job: Running a massive state government where people are dying every day of drug overdoses and mass shootings that you barely acknowledge. Where school boards across the state are grimly awaiting the final price tag of the economically reckless voucher bill you just signed. Where insurance rates are skyrocketing and damage claims from back-to-back hurricanes are being summarily denied. Where, every day, we’re discovering more cracks your machinations have inflicted on the fundamental integrity of Florida’s own government.

Stop letting your inner Donald control your behavior. (In this case, we mean Donald Duck.) All you’ve managed to do so far is create a situation where Disney has more control, and potentially more secrecy, than it ever did. No matter how you try to play this, it seems apparent that you were outplayed.

So take your advice from the Queen (and in this case, we mean Queen Elsa). Let. It. Go.



The Orlando Sentinel Editorial Board consists of Opinion Editor Krys Fluker, Editor-in-Chief Julie Anderson and Viewpoints Editor Jay Reddick.
rfenst Offline
#377 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
Iger vows $17B Disney World expansion, calls DeSantis ‘anti-business’


Orlando Sentinel


The Walt Disney Co. plans to invest $17 billion in Walt Disney World over the next 10 years and create 13,000 new jobs, CEO Bob Iger said Monday, as he accused Gov. Ron DeSantis of being vindictive over Disney’s response to the so-called “don’t say gay” law last year.

Iger’s remarks came in response to an audience question during Disney’s annual shareholder meeting in California over what steps Disney will take to protect shareholders in an anticipated legal battle among DeSantis, Disney and the former Reedy Creek Improvement District.

Disney World will host 50 million visitors this year, and its planned expansion will bring even more guests and employees to the state in the years to come, along with generating more taxes, Iger said.

“Our point on this is that any action that thwarts those efforts, simply to retaliate for a position the company took, sounds not just anti-business, but it sounds anti-Florida, and I’ll just leave it at that,” he said.

Iger did not provide any details about the expansion plans for Orlando but the company’s 30-year plan calls for a possible fifth major theme park.

The latest fight emerged because just before the state takeover, the old district board approved agreements that the new DeSantis-appointed district’s leadership says keep them from altering Disney’s long-term development agreements, among other restrictions.

Disney said last week the agreements were “appropriate” and lawfully made with former district leadership. The current board, being renamed the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District, has vowed to investigate them with the aid of four law firms.

On Monday, DeSantis requested that Florida’s chief inspector general launch an investigation into Disney’s actions.

During the company’s annual meeting, Iger also said Disney loves Florida and has heavily invested in the state over the past 50 years in its expansion of the Disney World resort, as the state’s largest taxpayer and through its charitable actions.

The state’s relationship with Florida has “kind of been a two-way street,” Iger said.

But that changed last year when former CEO Bob Chapek spoke out against Florida’s Parental Rights in Education legislation, which restricts discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity in early-grade classrooms. That drew DeSantis’ ire and led to a law dissolving the company’s special land use, utilities and public service district, Reedy Creek.

“And while the company may have not handled the position that it took very well, a company has a right to freedom of speech just like individuals do,” Iger said.

He said DeSantis dissolved Reedy Creek “in effect to seek to punish a company for its exercise of a constitutional right.”

“And that just seems really wrong to me, against any company or individual but particularly against the company that means so much to the state that you live in,” he added.

In response, DeSantis spokeswoman Taryn Fenske said, “while a company has First Amendment rights, it does not have the right to run its own government and operate outside the bounds of Florida law.

“The Florida Legislature and Governor DeSantis worked to put Disney on an even playing field, and Disney got caught attempting to undermine Florida’s duly enacted legislation in the 11th hour,” she wrote.

During the Monday meeting, Iger fielded questions and remarks from shareholders on both sides of the spectrum. Some supported Disney taking a stance against legislation called harmful to the LGBTQ+ community and producing content representative of gay and transgender identities. Others said the company had no business pushing a perceived “woke” agenda.

DeSantis has frequently used the word “woke” to attack Disney.

Iger said his job is to “strive to do what I think is best for our business” and for Disney’s employees in speaking out. There are times Disney will encounter “gray areas” when it chooses to weigh in, he continued.

“In almost all cases, it has to be because it directly affects our business or our people,” Iger said. “And I think if you look back for decades, corporate America has expressed themselves on numerous issues of both right and wrong, and our country, I think, is better off for that.”

Disney has gotten criticism “for what some perceive to be agenda-driven content,” he said to one caller Monday, noting he is “sensitive to that” but understands Disney cannot please everyone.

“Our primary mission needs to be to entertain, and then through our entertainment to continue to have a positive impact on the world,” Iger said. “... We’re committed to delivering age-appropriate content for family audiences, while also telling stories that reflect the world around us and that foster a greater understanding, greater perspective, greater acceptance of all people.”

Disney’s shareholders on Monday voted against a proposal that would have required the company to report its political expenditures “against its publicly stated company values and policies.”

The measure, introduced on behalf of the Educational Foundation of America and an unnamed co-filer, mentioned Disney’s donations to supporters of the Parental Rights in Education bill and political organizations lobbying against abortion access.

Monday’s meeting was Iger’s first shareholder presentation since returning to the company as CEO. Iger previously led Disney as its CEO and chairman from 2005 to 2020.

He did not offer any information about Disney’s recent layoffs.

The company is in the middle of cutting 7,000 jobs across the company as part of a larger effort to trim $5.5 billion in costs.

Ike Permutter, chairman of Marvel Entertainment, was among those terminated. Perlmutter was laid off last week following an unsuccessful attempt to appoint his friend Nelson Peltz to the Disney board last fall, The New York Times reported.
corey sellers Offline
#378 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,358
Can I get this one shorthand or maybe audio book.
rfenst Offline
#379 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
The Stupid War Between Disney and DeSantis

Neither the company nor the Florida governor should want an extended brawl over sex ed for third-graders.



WSJ

Disney is still living with a mistake quite a few business leaders have made in recent years, letting itself be bullied—or bullying itself—into taking a needless political stand.

Last year’s Florida law, contrary to the “don’t say gay” moniker promoted by opponents, was reasonable. The interests on both sides were reasonable. LGBT people want their lifestyles respected and not stigmatized in the classroom. Parents want their third-graders not to be bombarded with messages they or their parents aren’t ready for.

Some activists clinging to an issue fret teachers might now interpret the law to mean they can stigmatize away, but the law says the opposite. It prohibits them from raising such subjects at all. In essence, it says such discussion should begin in the fourth grade.

Disney at first steered clear but then tripped over its own feet by unwisely projecting on Florida its own internal fights, then raging at the same time, over what constitutes “age-appropriate” representation in shows and movies aimed at kids—ironically, the phrase CEO Bob Iger lately highlights for guidance is also the phrase enshrined in the Florida law.

When previous CEO Bob Chapek panicked, of course, it didn’t matter what the law said. It didn’t matter, around the same time, what Georgia’s new voting law said either. CEOs ran as fast as their quivering knees could carry them to whichever side was calling the other side racist.

But hardly to his credit, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has also given the impression of enjoying the fight too much for fundraising and news-making purposes, rather than helping Florida’s leading corporate citizen get back in the state’s good graces.

He gives the impression also of thinking the electorate consists entirely of political hobbyists looking for entertainment rather than sound governance.

For anyone test-driving Mr. DeSantis as a possible president, the real mistake was needlessly parlaying the original dispute into an open-ended fight. He mobilized legislators to take away the county-like authority that Disney, since 1967, exercised over 25,000 acres where its Florida theme parks are located. In duly notified public meetings, Disney used the interim to transfer back to itself certain business-like powers, over its trademarks and characters, over the design and appearance of future park buildings.

Any sane company would have done so, rather than let purely commercial decisions be handed to a politically appointed board at the beck of Florida’s governor. Even more so because Gov. DeSantis seemed to want to load the board with his anti-gender-wokeness allies, as if this has anything to do with roads, sewers, police and fire protection.

With the help of Florida’s cackling if legally uncomprehending liberal media, Mr. DeSantis may also have felt obscurely mocked by one provision. Related to a common-law prejudice against perpetuities, it conventionally assures that the transferred rights will remain with Disney at least until “21 years after the death of the last survivor of the descendants of King Charles III, king of England . . .”

For whatever reason, Mr. DeSantis has decided he now needs to fight a possibly endless legal war to claw back these changes by the now-defunct Reedy Creek Improvement District, never mind that the changes have zippo to do with sex ed for 8-year-olds.

All this makes Mr. DeSantis look a mite unbalanced, with a Trumpian propensity to crank to 11 a dispute that would be better left at 4. The lessons are many but come down to a time-honored admonition for both sides: Grow up.

Very large contracts doled out to corporate chieftains are meant to make them brave in the face of risks that make sense to diversified shareholders, which are economic risks, never mind a CEO’s own natural incentive to seek a gilded safety.

Mr. Iger at one point claimed the Florida law was a matter of right and wrong, which is exactly what it’s not. It’s a conflict with defensible views on both sides. When business leaders adopt the uncompromising language of their mau-mauers, neither safety nor shareholder interests are served. It only indicates to the mau-mauists that corporate terrorism works. Mr. DeSantis is playing the same game from the other side.

Mr. Iger has now allowed that Disney did not handle its opposition to the Florida law well, though this recent statement wasn’t what the press most wanted to quote. On Thursday, he further offered to sit down with Florida’s governor to bury the hatchet. His shareholders would thank him. The right response from day one would have been to wish Florida voters and elected officials well in dealing with a knotty question, while hoping consensus would be achieved and all sides would at least feel respected and that their views were heard.

But when CEOs instead start lauding themselves for their courage in “taking a stand,” they should understand nobody believes they are brave. Just the opposite: They hear only a surrender to personal terrorism and bullying in a way that belies their duty to put shareholders before their own desire not to be called names.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#380 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
Gawsh!


Disney’s 11th-Hour Move To Evade DeSantis Oversight Is Legally Void, Per Source



Disney skipped a step required by Florida law in its 11th-hour agreement, according to those familiar with the proceedings.

Disney leadership thought the company out-maneuvered Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis this year after a last-minute agreement with local officials gave the theme park virtually unlimited developmental power. But sources tell The Federalist that Disney’s corporate lawyers missed the fine print in Florida statute governing tourist districts.

In February, supervisors running the Reedy Creek Improvement District signed an 11th-hour resolution to hand Disney maximum authority over the company’s 27,000 acres in central Florida. The late agreement effectively left the DeSantis-appointed successors on the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District board — which replaced the Reedy Creek board — powerless to govern Disney in their own state.

“This essentially makes Disney the government,” said Ron Peri, one of the new board members appointed by the governor, at a Feb. 27 meeting. “This board loses, for practical purposes, the majority of its ability to do anything beyond maintain the roads and maintain basic infrastructure.”

In early April, DeSantis ordered an investigation into Disney’s last-minute power grab. A source familiar with the investigation revealed to The Federalist that Disney skipped key steps when amending its developmental agreement, rendering the resolution null and void.

According to Florida statute, local governments — in this case, the Reedy Creek board — are required to take three steps when making changes to special district agreements such as the one that established Disney’s quasi-governmental status. They must hold two public hearings, advertise those hearings in a local newspaper, and offer notice by mail to “all affected property owners before the first public hearing.”

In a statement to the Associated Press, Disney said the agreements took place in public.

“All agreements signed between Disney and the District were appropriate, and were discussed and approved in open, noticed public forums in compliance with Florida’s Government in the Sunshine law,” the company said.

Disney’s first hearing on the issue was held Jan. 25, and the second on Feb. 8. The company advertised proceedings in the Orlando Sentinel. The last requirement of Florida law, however, that all affected property owners be given notice by mail, was skipped entirely, according to sources familiar with Disney’s proceedings. The missed mandate means the company would have to restart the process for its 11th-hour resolution to be valid.

The agreement circumvented legislation DeSantis signed last year to strip Disney of its special self-governing privileges. Disney’s last-minute move drew a cascade of headlines mocking the Florida governor as a conservative dunce who got it handed to him by Mickey Mouse.

“How Disney just beat Ron DeSantis,” ran a headline from Vox.

“Here’s how Mickey Mouse outplayed Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis,” read an op-ed in the Tampa Bay Times.

Even former President Donald Trump roasted the Florida governor for getting “outplayed, outsmarted, and embarrassed by Mickey Mouse and Disney.”

Memes circulated on the internet.

But the governor may have the last laugh, in a fight that began last year after Disney’s aggressive activism against the Parental Rights in Education Act, inaccurately branded the “Don’t Say Gay” bill. Disney blasted DeSantis over the law, which barred discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity in kindergarten through third-grade classrooms. It was around the same time that audio leaked of Disney employees boasting about implementing their “not-at-all-secret gay agenda.”

“Florida’s HB 1557, also known as the ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bill, should never have passed and should never have been signed into law,” the company said in a statement upon the bill’s signage. “Our goal as a company is for this law to be repealed by the legislature or struck down in the courts, and we remain committed to supporting the national and state organizations working to achieve that.”

DeSantis said Disney’s activism “crossed the line.”

“We’re going to make sure we’re fighting back when people are threatening our parents and threatening our kids,” he said at a press conference in Tallahassee.

https://thefederalist.com/2023/04/16/exclusive-disneys-11th-hour-move-to-evade-desantis-oversight-is-legally-void-per-source/
Brewha Offline
#381 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
It's the frequent rain in Florida.

Every afternoon shower causes a rainbow on the horizon - and it is driving DeSantis over the edge.
Farther, that is.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#382 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
Anyone Claiming Disney ‘Outmaneuvered’ DeSantis Is Moving Goalposts



Some on the right and left have claimed Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’ conflict with Disney has been a failed PR stunt. This view requires one to ignore critical context, facts, and the evolution of the dispute. An honest account of events requires one to concede DeSantis’ battle with Disney has been an unabashed victory for the Florida governor.

A little over a year ago, Florida passed a parental rights law that forbade teachers from discussing sexuality with children in third grade and below. The bill also required parents to be made aware of any significant developments with their children regardless of grade level. This law upset the LGBT lobby, which falsely labeled the law as a “Don’t Say Gay” bill despite there being no mention of homosexuality in the text. Predictively, major media platforms co-opted the label in an attempt to paint conservatives as homophobes for refusing to use public schools to secretly “trans the kids” without parental consent and teach kindergarteners about sex.

The Disney CEO at the time, Bob Chapek, caved to a small but vocal group of Disney employees that took issue with parental rights in education bill and vowed to use the full weight of the company to overturn the law and to deny support for Florida Republicans in the future. For those unfamiliar with Florida politics, this represented an unprecedented move for the company that has a history of getting along with Florida Republicans and also getting whatever it wanted from the legislature. An accurate timeline of events makes it undeniable; Disney fired the first shots. Florida conservatives weren’t arbitrarily targeting Disney for a culture war.

What happens next is critical for understanding the Disney versus DeSantis feud.

DeSantis and Florida Republicans responded by stripping (albeit temporarily) Disney’s self-governing authority within its special tax district. The public feud caused Disney’s reputation to sink with the general public, the CEO responsible for injecting the company into local politics was fired, and Disney’s woke movies tanked. To put the cherry on top, in his return to the helm CEO Bob Iger pledged to get the company out of politics (the entire reason for the dispute) and is still getting an earful from shareholders.

Meanwhile, as Disney’s stock sank, DeSantis was reelected by the largest margin seen in over 40 years, with stunning victories in Democratic strongholds like Miami-Dade and Tampa. Republicans gained seats, now having a supermajority in both chambers, and for the first time since the Civil War, no Democrats are holding statewide elected office in Florida. For those unfamiliar with American elections, this is huge regardless of state. Republicans (especially conservatives) seldom win entire metro areas, especially ones as big and ethnically diverse as Miami. Furthermore, Florida Republicans have used this new power to expand the parental rights law to all grades and deliver on other major conservative priorities.

To pretend DeSantis was defeated or outmaneuvered by Disney requires an epic shifting of the goalposts. The objective was never about destroying Disney. That would be stupid. It’s a major employer and economic driver of Florida tourism. Likewise, Disney’s special tax district was always an issue of leverage to get the desired outcome of Disney backing off its plan to inject its left-wing ideals into Florida schools and law.

If one understands this dispute is centered on parental rights and education, not a municipal tax district, it’s dishonest to claim this was anything less than an astounding victory for DeSantis and Florida conservatives. This is true regardless of what happens with Disney’s tax district.
rfenst Offline
#383 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
Other than a company in bankruptcy, can someone please provide me with a list of the American private/public corporations being required by law to have all that corporation's decisions about that corporation's privately owned property, to be made by partisan, appointed politicians?
(edited)



Capitalism- def- (noun)- an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.

Communism- def- (noun)- an economic and political system and ideology that positions itself in opposition to democracy and capitalism in which the means of production are owned communally and private property is nonexistent or severely curtailed.

Eminent domain- (noun)- the process by which the government may seize private property with proper compensation, but without the owner's consent.



If you can't see this, at the very least as an eminent domain issue (government taking of property rights without adequate compensation) contrary to the U.S. and state constitution and laws), you are driving blind.
Brewha Offline
#384 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
Yep - He's blind...
rfenst Offline
#385 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
Brewha wrote:
Yep - He's blind...

Who?
I wasn't referring to anyone in particular...
Brewha Offline
#386 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
rfenst wrote:
Who?
I wasn't referring to anyone in particular...


I know. But it seems soooo obvious...

But you are clean, no harm, no foul - a gent as always.
HockeyDad Offline
#387 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
rfenst wrote:
Other than a company in bankruptcy, can someone please provide me with a decent list showing American historic and economic history of private/public corporations, which have all of those making decisions about the corporation's privately owned land, appointed by a politician or the government, as opposed to the corporation.


That’s easy. Every corporation or individual. It’s a big list!
HockeyDad Offline
#388 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
rfenst wrote:
Other than a company in bankruptcy, can someone please provide me with a list of the American private/public corporations being required by law to have all that corporation's decisions about that corporation's privately owned property, to be made by partisan, appointed politicians?
(edited)


Even under your edited version, the list is still everyone.

I just bought a lot in Florida. It will take three months for permits.
rfenst Offline
#389 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
HockeyDad wrote:
Even under your edited version, the list is still everyone.

I just bought a lot in Florida. It will take three months for permits.

Zoning and permitting are a totally different thing than what I am referring to.
This is about the uncompensated taking of corporation's own real property rights.


Congrats about the lot!!!
Look forward to seeing it when you are here.
If you need to fly into O and need a place to stay overnight, we always have a room for you for both of you.
HockeyDad Offline
#390 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
rfenst wrote:
Zoning and permitting are a totally different thing than what I am referring to.
This is about the uncompensated taking of corporation's own real property rights.


Congrats about the lot!!!
Look forward to seeing it when you are here.
If you need to fly into O and need a place to stay overnight, we always have a room for you for both of you.


But zoning and permitting and other government functions is exactly what RCID and now the new board does. Me and Disney both now have to deal with a government for our real property rights.

When RCID was set up, if Walt Disney wanted to do something he would go to the government which was Roy Disney to get automatic permission. They had different property rights than anyone else in the state.

Next trip will be design studio time while we wait for the government to approve our permit to use our real property rights.
rfenst Offline
#391 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
HockeyDad wrote:
When RCID was set up, if Walt Disney wanted to do something he would go to the government which was Roy Disney to get automatic permission. They had different property rights than anyone else in the state.

You are 100% correct. That was the agreement.
rfenst Offline
#392 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
No happily ever after in Disney vs. DeSantis drama



Orlando Sentinel Editorial Board

We all know how much Disney loves sequels. But here’s a safe prediction: “Ron DeSantis and The Multiverse of Madness” is going to be a flop, for everyone involved.

Because while the governor’s attempts to retaliate against the magic kingdom of the Mouse started out as popcorn-worthy entertainment, they are spinning off into real threats to the stability of Florida’s economy.

Tale as old as .. 2022
Our story so far: Way back in January 2022, everything was satisfactual, at least by Florida standards. Disney gave politicians lots of money and swag, and got special privileges in return. That included near-total control of a special, county-like district set up 50-plus years ago that protected its theme parks, resorts and land from inconvenient government intrusion.

Ron DeSantis has spent a lot of time fuming about Mickey Mouse. But while DeSantis fumed, Disney lawyers quietly did their homework, trying to outsmart the governor's legal team. So far, it looks like they succeeded.

But then the Legislature, thoroughly under DeSantis control, rammed through legislation aimed at corporations (well, some corporations) that trained their employees not to be racist or gender-identity biased. Next came a series of attacks on Florida’s gay, lesbian and most of all transgender people that is still escalating. Disney, prodded into action by outraged employees and customers, finally issued a weakly vague complaint and said it was turning off the tap on campaign cash.

DeSantis’ rational response: Global thermonuclear war. He rammed through legislation to kill the Reedy Creek improvement district and took a victory strut, though there was heavy foreshadowing that all might not be well — in the form of a massive tax burden and bond debt that was going to have to be dealt with… somehow. Cliffhanger! Roll credits.

The Woke Strikes Back
A year later, the sequel came out. DeSantis had finally realized that he’d made a pretty big mistake, but didn’t realize how big: While his staff was scribbling out fix-it legislation that let him seize control of the Reedy Creek Improvement District and put his cronies in power, Disney struck back in the dead of night (by which we mean, at open-to-the-public meetings of the district, backed with plans that were available to anyone who asked).

Disney's official word on Reedy Creek
In the weeks before the DeSantis takeover, outgoing board members signed a pile of contracts and covenants that boiled down to this: While DeSantis was claiming a win, the mouse was stealing most of the cheese. The first meeting of the new, DeSanctified board featured some of their many, many attorneys saying that the board had very little power left.

That led to last week’s goofy press conference, where DeSantis threatened Disney with all kinds of retaliation. Most of it involved the significant assets the company had stashed in the Reedy Creek governmental shell, including thousands of acres of Disney property currently serving as conservation land — which DeSantis suggested might be a dandy venue for a competing theme park. Or a state park. Or a state prison. Was he joking? Who knows?

Then there were the financial attacks: The new board would force Disney to pay off its $1 billion in bond debt. The new board would raise property taxes (Disney, which owns nearly every square inch of the property inside the district, already taxes itself more than double the maximum that would be allowed if the district didn’t exist.) The new board would sell off Disney’s highly efficient and specialized utilities.

Some of the “vengeance” clearly hadn’t been very well thought out. Higher tolls on roads around Disney would only hurt the families who visited the park and the thousands of workers who toiled there, and could actually benefit Disney’s bottom line by keeping guests on-property when they might have instead visited non-Disney restaurants and other theme parks.

Speaking of other theme parks, DeSantis wants state Agriculture Commissioner Wilton Simpson to take over inspections of Disney rides and investigations of injuries. That’s something we’ve been pushing for for years, so, OK. But how do DeSantis and Simpson justify not doing the same for SeaWorld, Busch Gardens and Universal? When asked, DeSantis muttered something about “special districts” and the press conference was over.

But we can’t help but wonder about something the governor has said all along: He believes the district was never legally set up in the first place. He believes the district could and should be erased. If he pursues that train of thought, it sparks a whole new world of questions: Doesn’t that make everything listed above technically and legally impossible?

Not feeling the love
It’s safe to say that this latest release is not getting the best of reviews. In fact, it turns out the global business community is not that enchanted with a governor who thinks it’s OK to go around seizing control of private corporations. Or one who thinks it’s OK to cobble together a plan of attack on one of his own state’s biggest economic drivers over a week or maybe three.

They’re starting to become alarmed. You can tell by the way that campaign contributions are shriveling, and people are starting to edge away from DeSantis’ camp in his all-but-announced plan to run for president in 2024. He’s making Donald look calm and rational by comparison, and in this case we mean Trump and Duck.

The governor demonstrably doesn’t listen to a word we say, but he needs to look at his own box office: This franchise is played out. He’s already made a mess that hundreds of trial attorneys will be feasting on for years, and turned #AccidentalCommunist into a tag on Twitter.
rfenst Offline
#393 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
Disney sues DeSantis, alleging ‘government retaliation’ in Reedy Creek feud



Orlando Sentinel


LAKE BUENA VISTA — The Walt Disney Co. is suing Gov. Ron DeSantis and state officials in federal court, accusing them of engaging in a “targeted campaign of government retaliation” in the feud over the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

The entertainment giant filed the lawsuit on Wednesday as DeSantis’ hand-picked tourism oversight board declared Disney’s agreements seeking to retain control over development in Central Florida were null and void.

“A targeted campaign of government retaliation — orchestrated at every step by Gov. DeSantis as punishment for Disney’s protected speech — now threatens Disney’s business operations, jeopardizes its economic future in the region, and violates its constitutional rights,” the suit filed in Tallahassee reads.

The tourism oversight board’s lawyers say the previous Disney-friendly Reedy Creek Improvement District board failed to follow procedural requirements and properly notify affected property owners of the development agreements.

But in the federal lawsuit, Disney’s lawyers say the agreements were lawfully approved, and DeSantis and his allies are “employing the machinery of the state in a coordinated campaign to damage Disney’s ability to do business in Florida” because it opposed what critics called the “don’t say gay” law.

“There is no room for disagreement about what happened here: Disney expressed its opinion on state legislation and was then punished by the state for doing so,” the lawsuit states.

DeSantis’ office defended its position in a statement.

“We are unaware of any legal right that a company has to operate its own government or maintain special privileges not held by other businesses in the state,” said Taryn Fenske, a DeSantis spokeswoman. “This lawsuit is yet another unfortunate example of their hope to undermine the will of the Florida voters and operate outside the bounds of the law.”

Disney filed the lawsuit against DeSantis, the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District’s Board of Supervisors and other state officials. The suit asks the court to block the oversight board’s actions voiding the development agreements and a state law putting DeSantis in charge of the Reedy Creek Improvement District, which oversees government services for Disney World.

It alleges the state violated Disney’s First Amendment rights and clauses dealing with contracts, due process and the taking of private property without just compensation.

Battle began a year ago
The clash between Disney and DeSantis started in March 2022 when the entertainment giant vowed to work to overturn legislation that limits classroom instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity in public schools. DeSantis responded by calling Disney a “woke” corporation and vowing to end what he considered to be “special privileges” the corporation enjoyed in Florida.

DeSantis’ oversight board outlined its position during a meeting Wednesday.

At issue are a development agreement and restrictive covenants approved on Feb. 8 by the Reedy Creek Improvement District’s Board of Supervisors ahead of the state takeover. State lawmakers voted to put DeSantis in charge of appointing the five members of Reedy Creek’s board, replacing an arrangement that essentially allowed Disney to hand-pick the board and self-govern its theme parks and resorts.

The pact preserved Disney’s control over growth and planning, according to an analysis by the new board’s lawyers. A separate declaration of restrictive covenants spelled out that Disney must review aesthetic changes to the district’s buildings, among other stipulations.

Although the Disney deals were publicly advertised and approved in public meetings, an investigation found no record of those notices being sent by mail as required by law to affected property owners, the new board’s lawyers said.

The board’s resolution includes accusations of other faults with Disney’s agreements, including self-dealing and one-sided contract terms. Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake didn’t hold public hearings on the deals, even though they affected property inside their city limits, and the district didn’t post the entire text of the agreements on its website until the new board took over in March, according to the resolution.

The district also did not have the authority under Florida law to give up its governmental powers through restrictive covenants, the resolution alleges.

Central Florida Tourism Oversight District Board of Supervisors chairman Martin Garcia delivers remarks in support of a resolution to invalidate Disney’s final agreement with the previous board in Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Wednesday, April 26, 2023.

The new board members wanted to work with Disney’s leadership but were blindsided by the Disney deals that they only discovered after they took control of the district in March, Martin Garcia, chairman of the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District’s Board of Supervisors, said at Wednesday’s meeting.

“They did this at the 11th hour. ... They decided that a couple of weeks before this board takes action that they are going to tell the Florida Legislature and the governor and this board that they can’t act according to Florida state law,” Garcia said.

Told of the lawsuit after the meeting, Garcia said he had no comment.

Disney did not respond to a request for comment on the board’s actions, but its communications office sent out a copy of the lawsuit.

In the suit, Disney’s lawyers take issue with the tourism board’s characterization of the agreements, which they say are vital for a development plan that will put $17 billion and 13,000 new jobs into Central Florida’s economy over the next decade.

“[N]othing about these contracts was a surprise: They were discussed and approved after open, noticed public forums in compliance with Florida law,” Disney’s lawyers wrote. “And in the very same legislation that replaced the elected board governing Disney with board members picked by the Governor, the State Legislature reaffirmed the enforceability of all prior contracts, including those here.”

Disney also wanted to avoid fighting with Florida’s government but had no choice because of “a relentless campaign to weaponize government power,” the lawyers wrote.

DeSantis, widely seen as a 2024 GOP presidential contender, vowed to get the agreements voided, which he says runs contrary to his desire to end Disney’s control over the Reedy Creek district.

To bolster the state’s case, state legislators are moving to amend state law to stipulate that the development agreement can be voided by the new board.

‘This is huge’
The lawsuit drew swift reactions from politicians and Disney analysts.

Former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, a GOP presidential contender, told Fox News she would welcome Disney’s “hundreds of thousands of jobs” and “billions of dollars” into her state.

Disney analyst Len Testa called Disney’s decision to sue DeSantis and the state a significant escalation over matters the corporation must think are vital to its business interests.

“This is huge,” he said. “This is not your typical dispute with the local taxing authority or the City Council of Anaheim. Suing a governor in federal court is unprecedented.”

Both sides have stocked up on legal firepower. The Central Florida Tourism Oversight District has hired four outside law firms, including the politically connected Cooper & Kirk firm.

Cooper & Kirk’s lawyers will bill $795 an hour, according to the firm’s engagement letter. The boutique firm’s roster of lawyers includes Adam Laxalt, who roomed with DeSantis when he was training at the Naval Justice School in 2005 and made an unsuccessful bid for U.S. Senate last year in Nevada.

Disney’s complaint was filed by the high-powered Los Angeles attorney Daniel Petrocelli, who defended former President Donald Trump in a class-action lawsuit filed against Trump University, among other high-profile clients. The litigator is also known for his work in a 1997 wrongful death civil suit against the former NFL star O. J. Simpson.

In other business, the oversight district is considering hiring Glen Gilzean, president and CEO of the Central Florida Urban League, as its new administrator, Garcia said. The present administrator, John Classe, would stay on as a special adviser.

“It’s still up in the air,” Gilzean said. “I’m really excited about the opportunity, and I’m looking forward to working with the board.”

Board members also adopted a resolution declaring that Disney and other businesses in the district cannot require customers to be vaccinated against COVID-19 or undergo COVID-19 testing as a condition of entry. State law already makes it illegal for businesses to require customers show immunization credentials known as vaccine passports.

Business owners worry
The ongoing feud between DeSantis and Disney has sparked concerns from some business owners at the Disney Springs entertainment complex. Several owners told the new board members on Wednesday they should consider how their decisions could affect their operations.

“The discussion of additional taxes and additional utilities has been very concerning for us,” said Stephen Lombardo III, CEO of Gibsons Restaurant Group and owner of The Boathouse at Disney Springs. “I want you to just please understand when you make these decisions it impacts far more than just Disney.”

DeSantis said the state may have to look at toll roads and hotel taxes as he escalated his battle with Disney.

The district may have to consider raising taxes to pay for legal work needed to undo Disney agreements, Garcia said.

“Disney picked the fight with this board,” he said. “We were not looking out for a fight.”

But one public speaker told the board they think the board’s actions are motivated by DeSantis’ presidential ambitions, rather than doing what’s best for Central Florida.

“We are the laughingstock,” said Debie McDonald, a resident of Celebration. “Let people do what they do. Don’t come in with your lawyers from Tallahassee and turn our world upside down.”
HockeyDad Offline
#394 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
Go ahead and dismiss that lawsuit. Disney thinks RCID is their private property and it was taken without just compensation. Disney is claiming a government is their property.
DrafterX Offline
#395 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Jerry Springer should host a beer summit... Mellow
RayR Offline
#396 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,881
DrafterX wrote:
Jerry Springer should host a beer summit... Mellow


He'd be hosting his sleazy, trashy beer summit from hell since he just died at 79.
DrafterX Offline
#397 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
OhMyGod
rfenst Offline
#398 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,255
DrafterX wrote:
Jerry Springer should host a beer summit... Mellow

I think he just died like yesterday or today, in case you didn't know.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#399 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
rfenst wrote:
I don't think that is the right legal analysis. Disney's property, no matter how titled, makes Disney its beneficial owner.

Giving Disney special status (Reedy Creek), regardless of its fairness when compared to other businesses/theme parks, was a business decision agreed to in writing by Disney and the state, contract or not, that Disney had a reasonable right to rely on in its past and future actions.

Detrimental reliance is a defense to the claim of no binding agreement/contract.

Retaliatory changes to an agreement by a governmental body is unconstitutional.

Nikki Haley has already offered to help Disney if it wants to start up anything in her state. So will others...



Then like you choose to ignore, Disney decided to ramp up and stated (posts on this very thread detail what you ignore or cannot comprehend, IDK because you never seem to read them!) they would attack the state for what you and other DNC operatives called the "Don't Say Gay" bill. Despite the word "gay" is NEVER mentioned in the 3 page article of legislation. It's called "The Parental Rights in Education Act" otherwise known as Florida House Bill 1557. Then Disney said they would blast their media empire with LGBTQABCDEFG!@#$%^&+ content...because. Taking the high ground the governor of Florida decided he'd had enough of a California company meddling in state business and acting in a threatening and insulting manner. The state rescinded what was theirs to take away. A sweetheart deal that Walt was able to secure with the state of Florida under the guise that only if they gave him what he wanted, the parks could be built there. It was a ruse that nobody else in the state was ever able to secure.

You can bring in the mumbo jumbo but its not going to fly. Pretty sure Gov. DeSantis can hold his own in a courtroom!


DeSantis: Disney Lawsuit Against Florida is ‘Political’, Lacks Merit


Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has described Disney’s lawsuit against his state as lacking in merit, instead being “political” in nature.

DeSantis has dismissed a Disney lawsuit against the state of Florida as being prompted by politics rather than consisting of any real substance.

The governor's administration revoked the company’s control of the Reedy Creek district in Orlando — the location where the organization's Walt Disney World Resort is located — after the company began a political war against the state after it decided to ban the teaching of transgenderism to young children in Elementary Schools.

Disney is suing the state for what it calls a “targeted campaign of government retaliation” over the company’s progressive politics, with the multi-billion dollar media organization having repeatedly come to verbal blows with the DeSantis administration in the past.

However, according to a report by Reuters, DeSantis has largely dismissed the suit, arguing that it is more built on politics than on any reasonable grievance the company has with the state.

“I don’t think the suit has merit, I think it’s political,” the Republican Party governor told reporters during a visit to Jerusalem.

The Republican governor went on to say that his administration’s plan to strip Disney of its self-governing powers was instead the result of concerns regarding a lack of accountability for the company within the state.

“They had no transparency, no accountability, none of that, and that arrangement was not good for the state of Florida,” DeSantis said regarding Disney’s control of the Reedy Creek district.


“We did not think that that should continue, so we now have brought accountability,” he went on to say.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/04/27/desantis-disney-lawsuit-against-florida-is-political-lacks-merit/


What court in Florida is this California bad actor going to get their wishes in? Frying pan Frying pan Frying pan

Iger was brought in to save the company, and he'll be lucky to save his own job because just like the last CEO...he wanted to defend that which did not exist. Hope it was worth it.

Their stock price and the revenue lost doesn't look like it was. The The Happiest Place on Earth is a sewer.

https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/disney-worker-took-upskirt-videos-of-guests-for-years-deputies-say/
drglnc Offline
#400 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 706
rfenst wrote:
I don't think that is the right legal analysis. Disney's property, no matter how titled, makes Disney its beneficial owner.

Giving Disney special status (Reedy Creek), regardless of its fairness when compared to other businesses/theme parks, was a business decision agreed to in writing by Disney and the state, contract or not, that Disney had a reasonable right to rely on in its past and future actions.

Detrimental reliance is a defense to the claim of no binding agreement/contract.

Retaliatory changes to an agreement by a governmental body is unconstitutional.

Nikki Haley has already offered to help Disney if it wants to start up anything in her state. So will others...




And the Big D even said it outload on tape... he specifically said the reason he is doing all of this is because of the public statements Disney made related to the "Parental Rights in Education" bill. seems like an attack by the government on free speech to me... i think we have a document that forbids that or something...
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