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Desantis: ‘We are not going to order’ child vaccines
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
What ever happened to the right for doctors and patients to determine what each patient needs based on that patient's particular condition and their chosen doctor's best advice?


DeSantis doubles down on his decision not to offer shots


Orlando Sentinel

Amid backlash from political rivals, medical professionals and senior federal government officials alike, DeSantis on Monday morning reaffirmed his decision not to preorder newly authorized COVID-19 vaccines or offer them at state health departments.

“We are not going to have any programs where we’re trying to jab 6-month-old babies with mRNA,” he said during a news conference at The Pig Bar-B-Q in Callahan. “We still have not ordered it. We’re not going to order it.”

Florida is the only U.S. state that did not pre-order COVID-19 vaccines for kids under 5 before the Food and Drug Administration authorized them. After the FDA granted an emergency use authorization on Friday, the state allowed health care providers to place orders for the vaccines, something providers in other states had been able to do since June 3.

Pfizer’s vaccine is one-tenth of its adult dose and is intended for kids 6 months to 4 years old. Moderna’s shot contains one-fourth of the dose given to adults and is intended for children 6 months to 5 years old.

Nikki Fried, Florida’s agriculture commissioner and candidate for governor, spoke to media Monday morning as well from Tallahassee, bashing DeSantis’ choice not to preorder the new vaccines. Fried spokesperson Caroline Stonecipher said it was not intentional to hold Fried’s media availability at the same time as DeSantis’ news conference.

“It’s just one more anti-science dangerous COVID denialism from the governor and Dr. Ladapo,” Fried said.

She contended DeSantis and Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo should give parents information without infringing on their “parental rights” to make their own decision.

“Telling parents to not vaccinate their children is making a decision on their behalf instead of providing information, knowledge,” she said.

The state Health Department in March recommended against COVID-19 vaccines for healthy kids, saying the risks of vaccinating them “may outweigh the benefits.” This stance has been contradicted by major medical groups, including the Florida chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

DeSantis went on to question the quality of evidence behind the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s recommendations.

Both Moderna and Pfizer’s data followed many of the participating children for at least two months after getting their vaccines.

Two months is typically used as a benchmark in vaccine trials. In rare instances when vaccines do cause adverse effects, the effects typically begin within six weeks of the shot, the CDC’s website states.

The FDA greenlit Moderna’s vaccine based on data from an ongoing, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial of about 500 children ages 6 months to 5 years, which found they generated immune responses similar to adults.

An additional clinical trial focused on safety, following 4,700 children 6 months to 5 years and tracking the majority of them for two months after their vaccine to monitor for harmful side effects.

Pfizer’s trial tracked about 220 kids who got three doses, also finding they had similar immune protection as adults. About 2,970 kids were tracked to measure safety.

The most common side effects in kids under 3 who got Moderna’s vaccine were irritability, decreased appetite and sleepiness; these were also common in kids 3 through 5, as well as fatigue, headache, muscle ache, chills, nausea and joint stiffness.

For Pfizer’s shot, the most common reported side effects were irritability, decreased appetite, fever and pain, tenderness, redness and swelling at the injection site for kids up to 2; These side effects were also reported for the vaccine recipients 2 through 4 years old, in addition to fever, headache, and chills.

These are also common side effects for the flu vaccine in this age group, the CDC’s website states.

Now that the CDC has signed off on the shots, doctors can begin to administer the vaccines as soon as they get them, said Dr. Ashish Jha, White House coronavirus response coordinator, in a Friday news conference.

Jha earlier this month said he expects vaccinations to begin as early as Tuesday.

Florida health care providers such as pediatricians may receive their vaccines days or even weeks after providers in other states, but his team is trying its best to avoid a long delay, Jha added on Friday.
Stogie1020 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 3,314
He's just not "Pre-ordering" doses as a state resource...

Nothing preventing a parent and a doctor from deciding one way or another re the vaccine for the kids.
rfenst Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
Stogie1020 wrote:
He's just not "Pre-ordering" doses as a state resource...

Nothing preventing a parent and a doctor from deciding one way or another re the vaccine for the kids.

You are correct. The problem is that state distribution would be a lot more efficient and quicker, and the shots would be available to those who want them at least two weeks sooner. Why not promote that individual medical choice?
Stogie1020 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 3,314
rfenst wrote:
You are correct. The problem is that state distribution would be a lot more efficient and quicker, and the shots would be available to those who want them at least two weeks sooner. Why not promote that individual medical choice?


Because it likely would require State resources that are not required to be allocated toward getting a barely tested vaccine into the arms of pre-schoolers an extra two weeks early. Frankly, I think he is doing the kids of FL a favor, let the rest of the country be the beta-testers.

Remember "no significant side effect" for the adult vaccine, and then adults getting myocarditis? I wonder what the surprise will be for the kid doses?

Also, why is "state distribution" faster and more efficient rather than "riddled with government red tape" and "grossly innefficient?" I mean, it's pretty rare when the government is more efficient than the private sector.
Speyside2 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
Robert, DeSantis is making choices based on the 2024 presidential election. Many people know this including you. The 2024 presidential election will determine if he is the shrewdest or dumbest politician of our time. I see no in-between. This choice is part of his strategy.
HockeyDad Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
Here comes another round of tragic Covid-19 deaths in Florida. Engage Operation Snatch Up Real Estate.

(I need a catchy more positive name for that!)
rfenst Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
Stogie1020 wrote:
Because it likely would require State resources that are not required to be allocated toward getting a barely tested vaccine into the arms of pre-schoolers an extra two weeks early. Frankly, I think he is doing the kids of FL a favor, let the rest of the country be the beta-testers.

Remember "no significant side effect" for the adult vaccine, and then adults getting myocarditis? I wonder what the surprise will be for the kid doses?

Also, why is "state distribution" faster and more efficient rather than "riddled with government red tape" and "grossly innefficient?" I mean, it's pretty rare when the government is more efficient than the private sector.


There is already a two-week delay now in ordering here- and we are way behind the rest of the country. Let's see if the other states get the meds out faster than we are able to here in Florida. I bet they will. Time will tell.

It is a purely personal medical decision, not a political one. Desantis is a lawyer and politician with a military background, not a doctor. This is not a decision I believe he is qualified to make.

There is an allergy and immunology doc across the street and an infectious disease guy two doors down. My brother is pediatric infectious disease/pediatrician. I'll take their advice any day of the week over Desantis' politically motivated actions.
HockeyDad Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
Here’s the other side…..

California Governor Gavin Newsom Announced this week that an additional 400,000 COVID-19 vaccine doses have been ordered by the state, encouraging them to be used on children following FDA approval for the under 5 age group last week.

Covid-19 vaccinations will be required by law to enter school for the 2023 school year.

What ever happened to the right for doctors and patients to determine what each patient needs based on that patient's particular condition and their chosen doctor's best advice? In California we eliminated it.

We also have a bill in process to make it easier for the Medical Board of California to discipline doctors who promote COVID-19 misinformation by classifying it as unprofessional conduct.
RayR Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,929
That's right Newsom....jab them babies! Long term effects unknown, could lead to post birth abortion.

HD, I heard Gubernor Newsome joined Trump's Truf Social. He said he's gonna troll Republicans, you know...about their disinformation and stuff.
ZRX1200 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,451
So if the state doesn’t do it for you it’s impossible.

And if they mandate it, it’s cool by you.

Got it.
tailgater Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 25,960
My wife is director of a preschool and the governing body just sent a letter stating the individual schools should send a letter of endorsement for getting the vaccine for kids under 5.

She threw that notice out.


The pandemic is over.
The virus lives on, and will ebb and flo with intensity. People will die, no doubt.

But kids still ain't keeling over and meeting their maker too soon.

ALL parents have time enough to speak with their pediatricians. Here in Massachusetts if you can't afford a doctor we'll provide one free of charge. There is ZERO excuse that any parent doesn't know about the 'vid. Asking their doctor should be their own business.

Sunoverbeach Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,826
My boss is going to fire the employee with the worst posture. I have a hunch, it might be me.
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,993
Sunoverbeach wrote:
My boss is going to fire the employee with the worst posture. I have a hunch, it might be me.

this story has a different ending without the comma
Sunoverbeach Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,826
Punctuation's important
Speyside2 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
Interesting. Dave's bread makes me angry, for Tail it impairs his judgment. The FDA really needs to ban Dave's bread.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,826
It's time for common sense bread control
HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
10 slices should be enough.
MACS Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 75,480
Jesus, Robert... why on Earth would you want children getting an experimental SHOT (it's not a vaccine) that doesn't work AT ALL?

You get the shots and the boosters and still get covid... and the newest data dump that pfizer didn't want anyone to see for 75 years shows natural immunity is better.
DrafterX Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 96,149
He shoulda ordered them kayaks... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
We got 17 million kids now eligible to enter the clinical trial. Fortunately they survived for 2 years without a vaccine but now it’s time to queue them up.
rfenst Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
MACS wrote:
Jesus, Robert... why on Earth would you want children getting an experimental SHOT (it's not a vaccine) that doesn't work AT ALL?

You get the shots and the boosters and still get covid... and the newest data dump that pfizer didn't want anyone to see for 75 years shows natural immunity is better.

If I had young children I would wait, and rely on their doc's and my doctor brother's (pediatric) advice. But, others believe the time is now and I don't begrudge them for whatever they and their doctors think is best for them.

I am glad to know natural immunity works better. Some of us simply still don't belong getting it that way until it is their medical best option/interest. Myself for example. High blood sugar, high blood pressure, thyroid, over 60 with a history of inflammatory autoimmune disease. I think that immunization is worth the risk.

YMV.
HockeyDad Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
rfenst wrote:
I think that immunization is worth the risk.

YMV.


So you’ll take a Covid-19 immunization when we invent one?!
Dg west deptford Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,819
Anyone giving kids mRNA hates kids

DeSantis for POTUS!
rfenst Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
HockeyDad wrote:
So you’ll take a Covid-19 immunization when we invent one?!

Possibly. Depends on what you mean, though.
Mr. Jones Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 16,884
Good for desantis...

At least he has a brain on his shoulders....

Why the Fu*k would you give a 6 month old child an UNTESTED THE CORRECT WAY "PROJECT WARP SPEED "
MRNA VACCINE WHEN THEIR ODDS OF DIEING ARE SO LOW?

I WOULDNT EVEN GIVE IT TO MY 12 YR OLD...AND WOULD HAVE SEVERE MISGIVINGS FOR ANYONE UNDER 21 AT ALL.

I GOT SEVERE FOOT NUEROPATHY FROM MY SECOND DOSE...THANKS A PANT LOAD PFIZER...

HAVE YOJ SEEN WHAT IT HAS DONE TO 100,000'S OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WORLD WIDE WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN RUINED PERMANENTLY?
GO TO YOUTUBE AND WATCH THE HERKY JERKY PEEPS WHO CANNOT FUNCTION AT ALL WHO WERE PERFECTLY NORMAL before they got those first two shots...
Research how many died after the second shot...

It was not proven totally safe at all...

It was a decent stop gap measure as to not DIE if you had other complications or chronic illnesses ...that is all it was good for...

I go with MAC'S ON THIS ONE...

EVEN THOUGH I HATE TO AGREE WITH THAT A.S.S.H.A.T....
😉😁😂🤣
I DO...
rfenst Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
Sure it's good politically good for Desantis. Makes him look "tough" standing up to the federal bureaucracy and behaving all contrarian and angry.

1) If I had a kid in that age group;
2) And if I wanted that kid to get the shot;
3)(a) Then why is it OK for Desantis to delay the benefit of federal distribution to me? or (3)(b) to interfere with a personal medical decision between my kid's doctor and myself on behalf of my kid?
tailgater Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 25,960
Speyside2 wrote:
Interesting. Dave's bread makes me angry, for Tail it impairs his judgment. The FDA really needs to ban Dave's bread.


Other than responding to you, what have I posted that suggests a lack of judgement?

HockeyDad Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
rfenst wrote:
Possibly. Depends on what you mean, though.


We don’t have a Covid-19 immunization yet!
Speyside2 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
Nothing and everything. I see you have no problem joking about Dave's bread in my 3 year anniversary post and that question my post here. Hence your lack of judgment. A joke is sometimes just a joke. Now go find your safe place snowflake.
HockeyDad Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
rfenst wrote:
Sure it's good politically good for Desantis. Makes him look "tough" standing up to the federal bureaucracy and behaving all contrarian and angry.

3)(a) Then why is it OK for Desantis to delay the benefit of federal distribution to me? or (3)(b) to interfere with a personal medical decision between my kid's doctor and myself on behalf of my kid?


“Benefit of federal distribution?” Now that sounds spooky!

Go to CVS…go to Walgreens…go to Publix. Get your kid jabbed.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,826
Don't you hate it when someone answers their own questions? I do.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,214
HockeyDad wrote:
“Benefit of federal distribution?” Now that sounds spooky!

Go to CVS…go to Walgreens…go to Publix. Get your kid jabbed.



Scratch Publix.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2022/06/22/publix-wont-give-covid-vaccine-to-children-under-5/

Publix is headquartered in Florida, but reigns in the Southeast.

Still pushing the jab after all we know Robert? All of the info still isn't out. The stuff that just now is trickling out is horrendous. The numbers keep climbing in the negative direction and the doctors are still terrified to accurately report to the VAERS.

Don't forget the "vaccine" everyone has isn't what won medical approval. All of this is STILL under the emergency use authorization original vat recipe.
Speyside2 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
Let's get something straight. The present definition of vaccine is identical to the definition previous to 2015. So you all are playing a game. More importantly who if the shot is defined as a vaccine or a medication? The bottom line is how is immunity defined, and does this shot provide immunity.

Merriman Webster

Definition of immunity
: the quality or state of being immune
especially : a condition of being able to resist a particular disease especially through preventing development of a pathogenic microorganism or by counteracting the effects of its products.

Focus on the word resist and it's meaning. I've shot provide provable definable statistical resistance. In other words it provides immunity.

So the real question in my mind is the benefit risk ratio. Every individual needs to decide this for themselves without government intervention. BTW, part of the benifit/risk ratio for you could be as follows. You're employer has the right to terminate your employment due to your unwillingness to follow their rules. A school district can expel your child from school until they are full vaccinated. Yes these are discriminatory practices, but as log as all people in a specific category are treated the same, then they are legal discriminatory practices.
HockeyDad Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
Let’s get something straight…

Definition of vaccine - Merriam-Webster

1 : a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease: such as
a : an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see ATTENUATED sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)
b : a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)


vac·cine - Oxford Language

a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.


See the difference?


“Why did CDC change its definition for ‘vaccine’? Agency explains move as skeptics lurk”

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html
HockeyDad Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
CNN

Omicron subvariants BA.4 and BA.5 appear to escape antibody responses among both people who had previous Covid-19 infection and those who have been fully vaccinated and boosted, according to new data from researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, of Harvard Medical School.

However, Covid-19 vaccination is still expected to provide substantial protection against severe disease, and vaccine makers are working on updated shots that might elicit a stronger immune response against the variants.

The levels of neutralizing antibodies that a previous infection or vaccinations elicit are several times lower against the BA.4 and BA.5 subvariants compared with the original coronavirus, according to the new research published in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday.

“Our data suggest that these new Omicron subvariants will likely be able to lead to surges of infections in populations with high levels of vaccine immunity as well as natural BA1 and BA2 immunity,” Barouch wrote. “However, it is likely that vaccine immunity will still provide substantial protection against severe disease with BA4 and BA5.”

The newly published findings echo separate research by scientists at Columbia University.
Speyside2 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
I think I made it clear that they reverted to a previous definition they used, but that was not my point. The meaning of immunity is my point. By it's definition immunity does not mean 100% protection. Also, Moderna now has an Omicron specific shot expected to be in use by September.

See the difference?
Speyside2 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
Oh, you must have missed that I do not about what it is called. Though that sentence does have one of my expected mistakes.

See the difference?
HockeyDad Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
b : a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)

This is not a reversion to a 2015 definition!



“You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.“ ~ President Biden

Definition of immune
1 : not susceptible or responsive

Which of the following diseases do you believe you not susceptible to or responsive to:
A. Polio
B. Mumps
C. Measles
D. Covid-19
E. All of the above
F. None of the above because immunity is not 100% protection
rfenst Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
As Bad as I think Desantis is, Florida certainly did "dodge a bullet" (by .4%) when he last ran for governor


Andrew Gillum, DeSantis’s 2018 Rival, Is Charged With Conspiracy and Fraud


The former Democratic nominee for Florida governor was indicted in a criminal case stemming from his time as Tallahassee mayor and statewide candidate.


NYT

MIAMI — Andrew Gillum, the Democrat who lost the 2018 Florida governor’s race to Ron DeSantis, surrendered to federal authorities in Tallahassee on Wednesday after he and a close associate were charged with conspiracy and 19 counts of fraud over how they raised and used funds when he was mayor of Tallahassee and a candidate for governor.

Mr. Gillum, 42, was also charged with making false statements to the F.B.I.

He pleaded not guilty in a court appearance on Wednesday afternoon. Mr. Gillum, dressed in a navy suit with a dark tie and face mask, was cuffed around his wrists and ankles, with a chain around his waist. Inside the courtroom were some of his friends and a gaggle of news reporters. He left the courthouse after his release and gave no comment to the cameras and microphones waiting outside.

The once-ascendant Democrat, Mr. Gillum came within 32,000 votes of the governorship in 2018 — which would have made him Florida’s first Black governor and a future White House hopeful — only to lose his political direction and face personal struggles. In 2020, the police found him in a Miami Beach hotel room where another man was suffering from a possible drug overdose.

Mr. Gillum entered rehab to seek treatment for alcoholism shortly after. He later came out as bisexual in an interview that also featured his wife.

The charges appear to stem from a federal investigation into Tallahassee City Hall that began in 2015 and involved undercover F.B.I. agents posing as developers. Revelations from the investigation, including that Mr. Gillum had socialized with the undercover agents in New York, where they took a boat ride to the Statue of Liberty and saw the hit Broadway musical “Hamilton,” were an issue in the 2018 campaign. Mr. DeSantis, a Republican, said at the time that Mr. Gillum could not be trusted to run the state.

Mr. Gillum, who did not disclose the gifts at the time as required by state law, paid a $5,000 Florida ethics fine in 2019.

The 21-count indictment against Mr. Gillum shows that a grand jury filed the charges against him on June 7. Also charged was Sharon Lettman-Hicks, 53, a confidante of Mr. Gillum’s since he was in college. According to the indictment, she used her communications company to disguise fraudulent payments to Mr. Gillum as part of her payroll.

In a statement, Mr. Gillum said he had run all of his political campaigns “with integrity.”

“Make no mistake that this case is not legal, it is political,” he said. “There’s been a target on my back ever since I was the mayor of Tallahassee. They found nothing then, and I have full confidence that my legal team will prove my innocence now.”

Ms. Lettman-Hicks, who is running as a Democrat for a State House seat in Tallahassee, was in a wheelchair when she appeared in court on Wednesday and pleaded not guilty. She declined to comment.

The indictment covers events involving Mr. Gillum and Ms. Lettman-Hicks from 2016 to 2019. The false statements charge against Mr. Gillum is related to his interactions with the undercover agents.

According to the indictment, beginning in 2016, Mr. Gillum and two unnamed associates solicited campaign contributions from the undercover agents for Mr. Gillum’s newly formed Forward Florida political action committee. To keep the agents’ names private, the associates promised to funnel the contributions in other ways, including through Ms. Lettman-Hicks’s company, P&P Communications. In exchange, they were promised “unencumbered government contracts,” according to one of the unnamed associates.

Mr. Gillum told one of the undercover agents that he “should separate in his mind the campaign contributions and the Tallahassee projects,” the indictment says, adding that Mr. Gillum also “indicated he looked favorably on” the undercover agent’s proposed development projects.

The indictment says that when Mr. Gillum voluntarily spoke to F.B.I. agents in 2017, he “falsely represented” that the undercover agents posing as developers never offered him anything and that he had stopped communicating with them after they tried to link their contributions to support for potential Tallahassee projects.

The fraud and conspiracy charges are related to Mr. Gillum’s dealings with Ms. Lettman-Hicks with regards to P&P Communications and Mr. Gillum’s campaign.

In 2017, when he became a candidate for governor, Mr. Gillum resigned from his position with People for the American Way, a liberal advocacy group whose Tallahassee office was leased from Ms. Lettman-Hicks. Mr. Gillum lost his annual $122,500 salary, and Ms. Lettman-Hicks lost $3,000 in monthly rent. Mr. Gillum was also paid about $70,500 a year as mayor, a position he held from 2014 to 2018.

Mr. Gillum then became an employee of P&P Communications, where he was given a monthly salary of $10,000. According to the indictment, hiring Mr. Gillum was “only a cover used to provide him funds that he lost” after his resignation from People for the American Way.

When Mr. Gillum and Ms. Lettman-Hicks solicited $50,000 in grant funding from two unnamed organizations, the money was intended to be used for the Campaign to Defend Local Solutions, an effort by Mr. Gillum to fight state efforts to pre-empt local governments’ power. Instead, according to the indictment, that money ultimately went to P&P Communications to pay Mr. Gillum.

In 2018, the indictment says, Mr. Gillum and Ms. Lettman-Hicks defrauded an unnamed campaign donor who had given $250,000 intended for Mr. Gillum’s campaign. Instead, $150,000 of that was diverted to Mr. Gillum’s political action committee and to P&P Communications.

According to the indictment, in November 2018, $130,000 from the campaign was supposed to go to “get out the vote” efforts. Instead, $60,000 went to P&P Communications and was used in part to pay Mr. Gillum $20,000 in “bonus” payments from Nov. 20 to 29, 2018.

Eventually, it was listed falsely in Mr. Gillum’s campaign finance report as a reimbursement for “Get Out the Vote Canvassing.”
Speyside2 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
Yet you will not acknowledge what immunity is.
Speyside2 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
From AP

Massie shared an image containing three definitions for the word “vaccination” with his 326,000 followers on Sunday. One was labeled “pre-2015” and described vaccination as: “Injection of a killed or weakened infectious organism in order to prevent disease.” Another was dated 2015-2021 and said: “The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” The third was from September 2021, calling vaccination: “The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.”

Refer to immunity, perhaps now you can see.
rfenst Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
On kids’ vaccines, DeSantis is wrong, but never in doubt


ORLANDO SENTINEL AND SOUTH FLORIDA SUN SENTINEL EDITORIAL

The quip “often wrong, never in doubt” fits Gov. Ron DeSantis like a glove. He takes it to extremes by doubling down, at the expense of our children, on his cultivated political appeal to the anti-vaxxer element of right-wing America.

It’s an absolute disgrace for Florida to be the only one of 50 states that did not preorder Pfizer and Moderna mRNA coronavirus vaccines for children ages 6 months to 5 years, once it became apparent that federal regulators would approve and recommend them.

The preorder deadline passed a week ago, June 14. Florida delayed the availability of shots to children whose parents want them. President Joe Biden, to his credit, moved swiftly to circumvent that obstacle.

This was no oversight. It was intentional, based on Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo’s earlier refusal to recommend COVID vaccinations for healthy children. He said the risks “may” outweigh the benefits, a judgment contrary to the medical profession’s overwhelming consensus.

For that, DeSantis is personally responsible. Preparing for the sudden and still unexplained departure of Surgeon General Scott Rivkees, the governor searched for a reputable-sounding physician who would reinforce his own politically motivated opposition to face masks and vaccine mandates.

He found Ladapo, an associate professor of medicine at UCLA, and arranged for his dual employment at the University of Florida before announcing him as surgeon general and state health secretary, a day after Rivkees’ sudden exit. Rivkees had been in DeSantis’ doghouse after straying from the governor’s line on social distancing.

‘Trying to jab babies’
Ladapo has been recognized for his expertise in internal medicine, but is not an epidemiologist. When the Florida Department of Law Enforcement did a background check, a former supervisor at UCLA said she would not recommend him. Floridians, she said, “would be better served by a surgeon general who grounds his policy decisions and recommendations in the best scientific evidence rather than opinions.”

To hear DeSantis tell it, he’s right and 49 other states are wrong. Never in doubt, he doubled down again Monday. “We are not going to have any programs where we’re trying to jab six-month-old babies,” he said at a barbecue restaurant in Callahan, near Jacksonville, adding that the vaccines will not be available at any county health departments.

Parents will still have the option, but Florida’s refusal to preorder may delay availability of the vaccines through pediatricians’ offices, children’s hospitals and pharmacies. Parents can go to vaccines.gov, a federal government website, to find nearby locations offering child vaccines.

Hospitals have depended on the state’s supply network to vaccinate older children. It remains unclear how they will be supplied. The big pharmacy chains have minimum age restrictions — 18 months at CVS, three years at Walgreens.

Responding to Florida’s intransigence, Biden immediately ordered the federal government to make the vaccines available outside the state’s channels, and a White House spokeswoman said the governor “reversed course” — a characterization amplified in many news accounts that DeSantis and his press shop denied. Spokeswoman Christina Pushaw accused The New Yorker of “a blatant lie” on Twitter.

Biden’s COVID-19 coordinator, Dr. Ashish Jha, said Friday it had already begun shipping vaccines “to children’s hospitals and pediatricians in every state in the country except Florida.” He called Florida’s delay “unconscionable.”
We call it cruel, barbaric — and totally political.

Selective hypocrisy
It’s another case of DeSantis’ selective hypocrisy. He flaunts the cause of “parental rights” to justify legislation suppressing the teaching of sex education and the history of American racism in Florida schools.

Then he makes it harder for parents to choose lifesaving vaccines for their children.

Meanwhile, his Agency for Health Care Administration is proposing to forbid Florida Medicaid from covering gender dysphoria treatment for people, often children, who need it. A hearing is set for July 8. That too flouts “parental rights” for the sake of DeSantis’ political ambitions.

About 18 million American children, until now, have been ineligible for the coronavirus vaccines. For many of their families, that has prolonged the isolation and hardships: birthday parties cancelled, job opportunities declined, vacations delayed, all brought on by a pandemic that has claimed more than a million American lives, more than 75,000 of them in Florida.

While the great majority of deaths were of older people, children under 5 haven’t been spared. COVID has killed some 400, according to federal data, and sickened many more. And the federal stats are among the low estimates. A Harvard study reported by Bloomberg News concluded that in 2021 alone, more than 600 teens and younger children died of COVID, nearly six times as many as have died in any year from seasonal flu.

The American Academy of Pediatrics puts the juvenile death toll at 1,055.

As with their elders, some juvenile survivors have suffered lasting complications. An estimated 500,000 children have long COVID symptoms, probably an undercount.

“Of known respiratory viruses, only COVID-19 has ever killed more than 100 U.S. children in a month in the modern era,” the Harvard study said. “It did so three times during the delta and omicron alone.”

Yet DeSantis insisted, falsely, last Thursday that young children “have zero risk of getting anything.”

Only some 30% of children 5 to 11 have been vaccinated since Pfizer’s vaccine was made available to them last November. The negativity of naysayers like Ladapo and DeSantis doesn’t help.

Politics is an ugly business, but there used to be tacit agreement that children would not be exploited for short-term gain. That vanished when the Trump administration separated families at the borders and put children in cages. Florida’s indifference to protecting children from COVID-19 is cut from the same cynical cloth.




The Orlando Sentinel Editorial Board includes Editor-in-Chief Julie Anderson, Opinion Editor Krys Fluker, Insight Editor Jay Reddick and El Sentinel Editor Jennifer Marcial Ocasio. The Sun Sentinel Editorial Board consists of Opinion Editor Steve Bousquet, Deputy Opinion Editor Dan Sweeney and Anderson. Send letters to [email protected].
Speyside2 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
One last point the meaning of prevent. Seat belts are worn to prevent serious injury. Yet people wearing seat belts die every day. Prevent does not imply stop, it implies minimize.
rfenst Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Scratch Publix.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2022/06/22/publix-wont-give-covid-vaccine-to-children-under-5/

Publix is headquartered in Florida, but reigns in the Southeast.

Still pushing the jab after all we know Robert? All of the info still isn't out. The stuff that just now is trickling out is horrendous. The numbers keep climbing in the negative direction and the doctors are still terrified to accurately report to the VAERS.

Don't forget the "vaccine" everyone has isn't what won medical approval. All of this is STILL under the emergency use authorization original vat recipe.

We can never agree on the sience, whether the shot is a vaccine or whether it is even necessity for some.

I am pushing the jab for anyone who believes the benefits outweigh the risk determined between the patient and his/her a doctor.
rfenst Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
Why is the nomenclature of a the jab so important to those who oppose it?
Who cares what it is called?
Everyone has the right to get it. Everyone has the right to not get it.
Why are we still arguing over this?
Speyside2 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,049
Robert this is only a symptom. All people have strong beliefs of whether they trust science or not. Again I think this is probably a symptom. Many people of faith do not trust science and can give you specifics on why not to polite your temple/body. Many people of science do not believe in God. They will explain why the breakthrough was their accomplishment. I see this chasm as a problem with many serious symptoms. For me science is the explanation of what God created as best a human can explain it, which is poorly. As far as medical leaps I choose to see it as many miracles from God. I do not think mankind is capable of making the leaps in medicine we routinely see.
HockeyDad Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
rfenst wrote:
Why is the nomenclature of a the jab so important to those who oppose it?
Who cares what it is called?
Everyone has the right to get it. Everyone has the right to not get it.
Why are we still arguing over this?



You started the thread!
HockeyDad Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
Speyside2 wrote:
Yet you will not acknowledge what immunity is.


So what is immunity? Do you have Covid-19 immunity?

You have a child under of year of age. I’m not sure anyone else on this thread does. Is the vaccination appointment scheduled yet?
HockeyDad Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,503
rfenst wrote:
Why is the nomenclature of a the jab so important to those who oppose it?
Who cares what it is called?
Everyone has the right to get it. Everyone has the right to not get it.
Why are we still arguing over this?


Therein lies the problem. The nomenclature of the jab matters because the people are either lied to or over promised and under delivered.

Everyone has the right to get it.

Not everyone has the right to not get it. I was ordered to get it as were millions of others.
rfenst Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 36,825
HockeyDad wrote:
You started the thread!

The thread really has nothing to do with the age-old CBID argument of the definition of "vaccine" and petty the arguments whether or not one should call it a "vaccine" are useless.
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