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Last post 22 months ago by Brewha. 220 replies replies.
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If this is your morality, then I'll have none of it.
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DrafterX Offline
#201 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 12:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,534
I've assisted many wimmins find god... they were calling for him anyways... Think
HockeyDad Offline
#202 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 1:03 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,115
DrafterX wrote:
I've assisted many wimmins find god... they were calling for him anyways... Think


Maybe you could help Brewha and BGZ!
DrafterX Offline
#203 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 1:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,534
Homey don't play that... Not talking
BuckyB93 Offline
#204 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,152
DrafterX wrote:
I've assisted many wimmins find god... they were calling for him anyways... Think


Was it like "Oh God, get me out of here and I promise to make it a life long mission to find CROS..."
Speyside2 Offline
#205 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 2:07 PM EST
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,345
Brewha, none repeat none of that was directed at you. I know you are very careful with your words. I wish I was more so. In truth I was mocking BGZ's elf on a shelf. Also I was trying to set up a question that I think is important in this discussion. How do we know there is any absolute truth? To me this is more of a philosophical question. Either I know there is absolute truth because God exists and is absolute truth, or I know random energy exists and created a universe where absolute truth is measurable, such as gravity.

That leads to an interesting thought. As a Christian I do not fear death of my physical body. Rather I look forward to my soul transitioning. It has nothing to do with mass hysteria. While I was an Atheist I did not fear death either. On death my consciousness ceases to exist. Two different realities.

Quantum physics is not my strong suit. But doesn't quantum physics prove both realities can exist. So the real question is are these 2 realities mutually exclusive?
Speyside2 Offline
#206 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 6:10 PM EST
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,345
Oh, also why would you think it is condescending on my part to want everyone to be saved? It would be condescending on my part to tell you that you need to change because I know what is best for you. I know your belief is different than mine, but if you simply look from my perspective am I not mourning for anyone because I wish what I perceive to be the best for them? Could you not say I mourn for you in that you are unable to see that it is highly unlikely God exists, and mean this in a true, honest way?
Dg west deptford Offline
#207 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 6:22 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
bgz wrote:



On another note, I do envy believers over one thing... they are so certain in their mind that God exists that they just know it.

Me -No. It takes much more faith to say you know he doesn't exist, not sure He exists. Without Him there's a fatal epistemological issue to your worldview.

I don't think I've ever been so certain of something that wasn't actually 100% probability...

Me -Weren't you at least certain that the only thing you can know is that you can't know anything

To have that level of belief to just "know" you are right about the nature of everything... that's a feeling I may never know.

Me - Yet you know your current feelings?

DG talks of this as it's a bad thing... to not know something, it's bad to not know... I have no qualms saying I don't know if I do in fact not know... it's not a character flaw, it's a trait of a truthful being.


The problem is you do KNOW things such as:

absolute truth exists, that you know things to be true, that logic exists & that it is universal, not made of matter, & does not change.

Truth, knowledge & logic are all necessary to prove anything, & you assume & admit to all of them in every day life.

While you may try to account for truth, knowledge & logic without God, you can't.

My argument is that you must borrow from my worldview, & the God who makes universal, immaterial, invariant laws possible in order to prove anything.

This type of logical proof deals with “transcendentals” or “necessary starting points,” & is called a “transcendental proof.” Any contrary view to the God being the necessary starting point for rationality is reduced to absurdity. You have to assume God, in order to argue against Him.
bgz Offline
#208 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:26 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
But that type of proof doesn't match the data.

Seek out "Why God is a bad theory", a lecture by Shawn Carrol...

Maybe the arguments will have more weight if told by a real life physicist (not a fake one so I've been called... not sure how I can be a fake one, never claimed to be one).
Dg west deptford Offline
#209 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:28 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
But you've already said you could be wrong about everything
So how good is your data?
bgz Offline
#210 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Dg west deptford wrote:
But you've already said you could be wrong about everything
So how good is your data?


You're just playing dumb games with that "said I could be wrong about everything" bullsh*t... you know it's bullsh*t.
bgz Offline
#211 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:30 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Also, I already said, there's honor in saying you don't know when you don't know...

Because it's a truthful response.
RayR Offline
#212 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:34 PM EST
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,870
bgz wrote:
Why do you find it shocking that I would hope that they do not kill a sentient being?

I don't consider a fetus to be sentient.

It's almost as if you think a deity is a requirement for morality.


Benny, you are a...

https://youtu.be/JpCrCUZuS28
Brewha Offline
#213 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:39 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
Speyside2 wrote:
Brewha, none repeat none of that was directed at you. I know you are very careful with your words. I wish I was more so. In truth I was mocking BGZ's elf on a shelf. Also I was trying to set up a question that I think is important in this discussion. How do we know there is any absolute truth? To me this is more of a philosophical question. Either I know there is absolute truth because God exists and is absolute truth, or I know random energy exists and created a universe where absolute truth is measurable, such as gravity.

That leads to an interesting thought. As a Christian I do not fear death of my physical body. Rather I look forward to my soul transitioning. It has nothing to do with mass hysteria. While I was an Atheist I did not fear death either. On death my consciousness ceases to exist. Two different realities.

Quantum physics is not my strong suit. But doesn't quantum physics prove both realities can exist. So the real question is are these 2 realities mutually exclusive?

To me, truth is mutable. Relative to the observer and their ask of what a given truth is.
Brewhas pet axiom: The questions we ask are more important than the answers we get.

Think about it. Which question is best:
What does God what of me?
What is our purpose?
How did we come to be?


Quantum physics is largely a math pursuit. It “suggests” alternate dimensions and realities.
These are by no means demonstrated.
However, ones world view does author our individual realities. So, there is that.
Dg west deptford Offline
#214 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:44 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
bgz wrote:
You're just playing dumb games with that "said I could be wrong about everything" bullsh*t... you know it's bullsh*t.



If it's BS why did you say it?
bgz Offline
#215 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:48 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Speyside2 wrote:

Quantum physics is not my strong suit. But doesn't quantum physics prove both realities can exist.


No, it does not.

Here's the steel man argument... it comes from the LHC.

It can exceed energies that our bodies are capable of producing. If there was an interface that our "soul" could tap in to that we previously haven't found, we would have found it at the LHC.

All they found was standard model confirmations.

Not looking good for the soul on a separate plane of existence hypothesis... as in it got debunked.
Brewha Offline
#216 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 7:51 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
Speyside2 wrote:
Oh, also why would you think it is condescending on my part to want everyone to be saved? It would be condescending on my part to tell you that you need to change because I know what is best for you. I know your belief is different than mine, but if you simply look from my perspective am I not mourning for anyone because I wish what I perceive to be the best for them? Could you not say I mourn for you in that you are unable to see that it is highly unlikely God exists, and mean this in a true, honest way?


First off, it saddens me that you do not morn for me…………….
-jk


I’ll try to state it better:
It is a fine and honorable thing to feel for those who, for lack of knowledge and understanding, meet with a poor fate.
It is another matter to tell them that. Particularly on a subject so open for debate as god.
It frames it as you know better - which you may well believe you do. But they may not.

Put it another way; if I were to tell you that I pity you your believes and the life choices it makes for you, would I seen condescending?
Brewha Offline
#217 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 8:09 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
HockeyDad wrote:
Maybe you could help Brewha and BGZ!

Speyside pities you…..
frankj1 Offline
#218 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 9:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
doubt I'm gonna find the truth on a Discount Cigar Forum.
Penthouse Forum?
Maybe.
Speyside2 Offline
#219 Posted: Mon, Aug 1 2022, 11:01 PM EST
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,345
No, actually you would not appear condescending to me. I basically stated that you could state that in a true and honest way. Was I not clear?
Brewha Offline
#220 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2022, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
Speyside2 wrote:
No, actually you would not appear condescending to me. I basically stated that you could state that in a true and honest way. Was I not clear?

You were clear.
I was just explaining another perspective.
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