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Mike Rowe on Student Loan Bailout
Gene363 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
"Our puddingheaded president bailed out people who took out expensive student loans they were never going to be able to pay back. Yes, he's screwing over the middle class now that Democrats are a regional party of upper-income, coastal elitists. Yes, this amounts to a big payoff to his supporters and using questionable rationale to do so. All of that is terrible. But it also reminded me of the bigger problem, and this video Mike Rowe shared in 2019.

Mr. Dirty Jobs took to Facebook and asked his supporters to share the following video about the scam of college costs and student loan debt. Watch and think to yourself how much worse things have gotten."

Quote:
I work hard on this page, (not as hard as I could, perhaps, but pretty hard), to avoid the politics of the moment, and comment only on topics that impact the foundation I’m proud to run – a foundation that awards work-ethic scholarships to individuals who choose to forego an expensive, four-year education in favor of a skilled trade. When I do weigh in, I try to acknowledge both sides of the argument, and make my points with as much respect as I can muster. Today, however, I can see only one side. Today, I can find nothing to respect in the President’s decision to transfer billions of dollars in outstanding student loans onto the backs of those people my foundation tries to assist - the same people I’ve spent the last twenty years profiling on Dirty Jobs.

With that in mind, I’m not going to write the piece I just sat down to write. Instead, I’m going to share the attached article from Charlie Cooke, who writes better than I do, and shares my disdain for what just happened. If you share our disdain, then please, share this post as well. This decision is without question, the biggest pre-Labor Day slap in the face to working people I've ever seen.


BIDEN'S STUDENT-DEBT BONFIRE IS A CLASSIST MESSAGE TO THE UNCREDENTIALED: SCREW 'EM

By Charlie Cooke

A few moments before I sat down to write this piece, I opened the door to six guys in blue shirts who had come to my house to replace our air-conditioning units. The Florida weather being what it is, I’ve seen some of these guys work on our air conditioners before, and they’re as skilled and knowledgeable and conscientious and hard-working as you might expect. The company they work for, which is local to North Florida, was started by a guy who chose to forgo college in favor of taking out a small-business loan to strike out on his own. Most of the technicians who work for him didn’t go to college, either. They took a different path. And, well . . . what absolute chumps the president has just made of them for that!

Squirm if you like, but that’s the truth of the matter: As of today, the six air-conditioning technicians in my house are on the hook for college loans that were signed for, spent, and enjoyed by other people. Confirming the measure today, President Biden announced that any American who has both college debt they vowed to repay and an individual yearly income under $125,000 (or a family yearly income under $250,000) will be given up to $20,000 by the Treasury — which means by you, and by me, and by everyone else who pays taxes in America.
Why? Well, that’s the question.

The answer can’t be, “because that’s what the relevant law anticipates or requires.” As of yet, Congress has provided no authorization for the executive branch to arbitrarily write off some of the money that borrowers owe to taxpayers. As of yet, Congress has passed no rules that allow down-on-their-luck presidents to throw money at people for political gain. As of yet, Congress has given no instruction that if the president’s friends might like a little more cash, he can raid the Treasury to give it to them. Certainly, Congress has set up a loan program. But the deal there is rather simple, all told: First you borrow, and then you pay back what you borrowed. There is no mention of “forgiveness” days or of “help” or of rolling Chekhovian jubilees, and by pretending otherwise, President Biden is making a mockery of his oath to uphold the Constitution.

Another answer that won’t fly is, “To lower the cost of education.” As President Biden made clear today, this is a one-time deal, a lottery, a lightning strike. People who paid off their loans last week aren’t covered. People who will take out new loans after the policy has run its course aren’t covered. The problems in the system aren’t addressed. The colleges, and their endowments, are left unmolested. American culture’s increasingly credentialist presumptions aren’t altered. Within four years, overall debt will return to its present level. With the stroke of a pen, the already-fake deficit savings within the Inflation Reduction Act will be wiped out. This isn’t a reform. It’s not even pretending to be reform. It’s a contemptuous, abusive, unbelievably expensive shot in the dark — the net effect of which will be that fewer people correctly calibrate whether college is worth it, fewer colleges change their offerings to meet market demand, and, because this sort of executive giveaway will now loom large as a possibility, fewer people feel the need to save for college.

It seems so arbitrary. Why does Biden not want to do the same thing for loans on trucks owned by plumbers? Why not for mortgages — which, given how heavily it subsidizes them, the federal government clearly thinks are worthwhile? Why not for credit cards or auto payments or mom-and-pop credit lines? The answer, I’m afraid to say, is disgustingly classist: Because Joe Biden and his party believe that college students are better than everyone else. Because Joe Biden and his party believe that college students are of a finer cut. Because Joe Biden and his party prefer college students to you, and they think that those students ought to be rewarded for that by being handed enormous gobs of your money.
Electricians, store managers, deli workers, landscapers, waitresses, mechanics, entrepreneurs? Screw ’em. Sure, college graduates make more money than non-graduates, and their unemployment rate is lower, too. But non-graduates don’t have access to the president, so they don’t matter. They’re tradesmen, the riff-raff, the great unwashed. They’re background noise, dirty-handed types, second-classers. They don’t deserve $10,000 in debt reduction. What would they even do with it? Go hunting? Give it to their church? Their role is to subsidize the superior people, and the superior people go to college.

Why did Joe Biden do all this? That’s why. Why was this what Joe Biden chose to break his oath to achieve? That’s why. When it came down to it, good ol’ Scranton Joe sent cash from the sort of people he cynically pretends to care about to the sort of people he actually cares about: the privileged, accredited, self-dealing clerisy that his ever-dwindling political party now calls its base.
frankj1 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Trump University rejected me...
bgz Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
As millions across the land at once say... you mean I could have actually went to colladge?
frankj1 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Gene!
Is that a typo in the OP?
Very funny, even if intentional.
Gene363 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
frankj1 wrote:
Gene!
Is that a typo in the OP?
Very funny, even if intentional.


It was funny, but had to be corrected.
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Gene363 wrote:
It was funny, but had to be corrected.

I understand, but thanks for the laff.
Gene363 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
frankj1 wrote:
I understand, but thanks for the laff.


We could all use a little humor on this issue.
frankj1 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
true, true.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,665
I got ya

What sits at the bottom of the sea and twitches?
A nervous wreck
RayR Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888

Any idea why Frank and Ben have no original thoughts on the article? Think
Gene363 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
RayR wrote:
Any idea why Frank and Ben have no original thoughts on the article? Think


Humor is original.
RayR Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Gene363 wrote:
Humor is original.


Silly me, I thought the humor was being used to skirt the subject. Huh
That's not really original.
Gene363 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
RayR wrote:
Silly me, I thought the humor was being used to skirt the subject. Huh
That's not really original.


Perpetual arguing isn't original either.
MACS Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
frankj1 wrote:
Trump University rejected me...


How do you feel about spending tax dollars on loans that people took out, of their own volition? I disagree with it for a myriad of reasons. If you support it, I would like to understand why.
RayR Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Expect 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
DrMaddVibe Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,424
MACS wrote:
How do you feel about spending tax dollars on loans that people took out, of their own volition? I disagree with it for a myriad of reasons. If you support it, I would like to understand why.


I mean like paying taxes, you can always pay more if you want to. You coupd always pay for someone else to get a sweet degree studying Taylor Swifts lyrics or gender pronouns. Why make everyone else though? Sure there are doctors, lawyers and accountants that need to pay back their loans. Despite high paying jobs that come with those degrees for 2000.00 a piece you too are now able to pay down their debts.
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
How do you feel about spending tax dollars on loans that people took out, of their own volition? I disagree with it for a myriad of reasons. If you support it, I would like to understand why.

In general, I don't support it. Definitely not this particular action anyway.

I don't have a clear suggestion on what can or should be done but I would listen to any proposed.

Seems to me that costs to attend college have been rising waaaaay beyond the cost of living in any other area, probably even health care and medicine, for decades. Most of that has not gone toward the actual education itself of students.
Things considered upper management, just for a general term, have been sucking up the increases.
How can this be addressed?

This has led to a couple of overlooked problems in my opinion..

It has made higher education less of a smaht investment for people of most income classes.

And, more tragically, it has widened the earnings gap as it creates much more of a two class society. I say "class", not "race" because it is not structured to limit any specific people purposely. But it has affectively lowered the great American Opportunity Promise and odds of living somewhat comfortably in the middle class that we all support...except for a few anarchists who want it all to crash anyway.

We paid our loans, including masters plus for Caren, but it was likely 5% or maybe 10% of our monthly expenses back then.
Both of us found employment related to our degrees. Today it may have been 50% of our incomes in the same fields. Where would we have been forced to live in able to also pay for heat and food?

As it happens, after a while and a kid (eventually 3) I switched to a career with less restrictions on earnings potential, but I would never say that anyone could do it. Self employed straight commission! Scary. It was very stressful but was mostly worth the downside of the deal (often missing dinner, working lots of weekends, never having a guaranteed paycheck). But it afforded us more comforts, our first home (half a duplex) and then our second/current home, cars for all, COLLEGE for 3 kids with them owing very little, etc. etc. After 20 years of that I was offered and accepted a chance from a friend to help grow his business and return to normal hours in time to enjoy full family life but still never made as much money. Luckily I had put plenty aside to not have to step down in our life style.

I was talking to a friend of our kids the other day at the memorial golf tournament/fund raiser for our Danny. He's in his late 30's and owes a half million dollars from becoming a doctor. He's also the type who sincerely wants to improve the quality of life for his fellow human beings so it was only natural that he entered some kind of program in which he gives x amount of years toward some horrible situation on Earth in exchange for tons of loan forgiveness...

I applaud people like him, but let's face it, he's a rare breed.
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Gene363 wrote:
Perpetual arguing isn't original either.

well said, old man.
well said.

I will try to avoid perpetuating it
HockeyDad Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
Considering 283 million people just took on a $1100 student loan, I’m hearing a lot of talkee talkee and seeing less workee workee. You people got new debts to pay! Get at it.

A child born today starts with $1100 student loan debt. Nice!
Gene363 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
IMO, high schools stressing the need for all students to go to college and the easy availability of student loans incentivized colleges and universities to increase tuition costs and to offer a plethora of feel-good and useless degrees.
Gene363 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814

Hummm

My body, my choice!

Your loan, your payments.
Gene363 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
frankj1 wrote:
well said, old man.
well said.

I will try to avoid perpetuating it


I cannot, well will not, say I'm innocent, as are many of us, however, we do have some perpetual argument machines here.
RayR Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
I heard that politics wouldn't exist if there weren't arguments.

I also heard some peeps avoid arguments with 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
CelticBomber Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
Mike Rowe can go screw. Does Dirty Jobs for years and as soon as it's over he goes on anti union tours for people like the Koch brothers who have been union busting since they got their money from dad and sued their other two brothers out of the business.
RayR Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
CelticBomber wrote:
Mike Rowe can go screw. Does Dirty Jobs for years and as soon as it's over he goes on anti union tours for people like the Koch brothers who have been union busting since they got their money from dad and sued their other two brothers out of the business.


So now Mike Rowe is working for the Koch brothers?
He's a bad man, anti-union you say? Because he believes in personal choice, a right to work over one size fits all collectivist coercion?
You LEFTY's are crazy.

https://mikerowe.com/2009/06/united-we-stand-are-unions-still-relevant-today/

HockeyDad Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
Gene363 wrote:
I cannot, well will not, say I'm innocent, as are many of us, however, we do have some perpetual argument machines here.


We do not.
Stogie1020 Online
#27 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,327
*Insert Monty Python Argument sketch here*
Stogie1020 Online
#28 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,327
CelticBomber wrote:
Mike Rowe can go screw. Does Dirty Jobs for years and as soon as it's over he goes on anti union tours for people like the Koch brothers who have been union busting since they got their money from dad and sued their other two brothers out of the business.


Did Dirty Jobs somehow endorse the unions while he was doing the show? I mean, it's entirely possible he despised unions while he was doing the show, but really championed the individual workers, no?


FWIW, I think unions were an important element of American labor until the creation of OSHA. Then they just showed their true colors as money/power hungry organizations hiding behind the thin veil of "supporting workers."
Gene363 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
HockeyDad wrote:
We do not.


I should have known better. d'oh!
CelticBomber Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
Stogie1020 wrote:
Did Dirty Jobs somehow endorse the unions while he was doing the show? I mean, it's entirely possible he despised unions while he was doing the show, but really championed the individual workers, no?


FWIW, I think unions were an important element of American labor until the creation of OSHA. Then they just showed their true colors as money/power hungry organizations hiding behind the thin veil of "supporting workers."


No. My point is after doing those all those crappy back breaking jobs "championing individual workers" he should have some understanding of why unions are necessary to protect workers rights. But, once his show is over he's taking money from anti union industrialist and lobbying against unions. For example he supports the police and police unions but, Amazon workers trying to organize is bad even though they are pissing in bottles because they aren't allowed to take bathroom breaks.

You say
Stogie1020 wrote:
Then they just showed their true colors as money/power hungry organizations hiding behind the thin veil of "supporting workers."


So Unions are corrupt? Why were they created in the first place? We should just get rid of them and go back to trusting the people running the industries who created the need for unions in the first place? Everyone is always thinking and arguing from positions of absolutism. Unions bad/Industrialists good. Industrialists bad/Unions good. There are bad actors on both sides, welcome to the human condition. It's never going to be perfect. I think unions are a needed check against companies whose first priority is always going to be whats best for themselves and not their employees.

While he was filming that show he was part of a union that was protecting his rights.
rfenst Online
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
Gene363 wrote:
It was funny, but had to be corrected.

Aw, come on Gene.
Share something funny here.
I won't judge you for a typo or clerical mistake. Herfing
rfenst Online
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
frankj1 wrote:


I was talking to a friend of our kids the other day at the memorial golf tournament/fund raiser for our Danny. He's in his late 30's and owes a half million dollars from becoming a doctor.

I bet he went to private schools the whole way. It's an obnoxious amount, but if he chose the right specialty, he will earn it back and pay it back easily in like 5 years (98.2% certainty), so I see it as a potentially good investment. Because of public schools, hard work and wicked scholarships, Noah's law school all-in will be <175 and then less whatever new scholarships he gets. A great investment in education. I truly wish everyone had such opportunity as them and I am willing to pay taxes for it because broader, deeper education is what our country needs
rfenst Online
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
Gene363 wrote:
IMO, high schools stressing the need for all students to go to college and the easy availability of student loans incentivized colleges and universities to increase tuition costs and to offer a plethora of feel-good and useless degrees.

You are an idiot if you earn a useless degree, but you'd still be surprised where any supposedly useless four year degrees can lead people.

One of my son's girlfriends majored in anthropology and went on to dental school a few years later. My daughter majored in hospitality management, of all things (she could never make a career out of), but she is a successful medical recruiter for several of the largest nationally known hospitals, solely because she had a four year degree.

Certainly, college is not for everyone by any means. I firmly believe that we need to invest in post-high school education for non-academic trades and professional skills that should be available with student loans (just like college students). Our country will benefit from it.
rfenst Online
#34 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
Gene363 wrote:
Hummm

My body, my choice!

Your loan, your payments.

Yes.
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
the world needs ditch diggers too... Mellow
rfenst Online
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
CelticBomber wrote:
I think unions are a needed check against companies whose first priority is always going to be whats best for themselves and not their employees.

While he was filming that show he was part of a union that was protecting his rights.


See Triangle Shirtwaist Fire for the very beginnings...
rfenst Online
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
DrafterX wrote:
the world needs ditch diggers too... Mellow
Quit posting and get back to that shovel!
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I broke it... Sad
rfenst Online
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
DrafterX wrote:
I broke it... Sad

So, just take out another student loan and buy one. After all, using the right shovel multiplies task efficiency.
Gene363 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
rfenst wrote:
You are an idiot if you earn a useless degree, but you'd still be surprised where any supposedly useless four year degrees can lead people.

One of my son's girlfriends majored in anthropology and went on to dental school a few years later. My daughter majored in hospitality management, of all things (she could never make a career out of), but she is a successful medical recruiter for several of the largest nationally known hospitals, solely because she had a four year degree.

Certainly, college is not for everyone by any means. I firmly believe that we need to invest in post-high school education for non-academic trades and professional skills that should be available with student loans (just like college students). Our country will benefit from it.


It sounds like a great idea, and the GI bill was fantastic for the country, but the notion of sending unmotivated/poorly prepared students to college is not a plan for success. Further, like the medical field with insurance payments, universities are addicted to student loan funds, bith have experianced price increases beyone other comidites.

As for the correction, The thread title:

Was: Mike Rowe on Student Load Bailout

Fixed: Mike Rowe on Student Loan Bailout
rfenst Online
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
Gene363 wrote:
It sounds like a great idea, and the GI bill was fantastic for the country, but the notion of sending unmotivated/poorly prepared students to college is not a plan for success. Further, like the medical field with insurance payments, universities are addicted to student loan funds, both have experienced price increases beyond other commodities.

I am not talking about unmotivated/poorly prepared people. Unmotivated deserve to flunk out of any kind of school. Poorly prepared are wasting their time and money and won't do well enough in any school to deserve financial aid. And, by using the term "financial aid," I am not referring just to college.
MACS Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
Frank... I can explain the problem with the rising cost of education quite simply. The government got involved. Period.

Gov't loans for education made it easier for the institutions to charge more, and they damn sure did. People took out more loans than they should have because Uncle Sugar let them.

Wonder if the administrators of these colleges and our politicians (both sides) were discussing the matter? (ya damn right they were)

Anyway... I served our country and Uncle Sugar paid mine. But I earned it. I would support paying off anyone's student debt who did a 4 year hitch. Otherwise, f--k you... pay your own debt. You signed your name and promised to pay.

I did not, and neither did the other taxpayers. My $.02
MACS Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
CelticBomber wrote:
No. My point is after doing those all those crappy back breaking jobs "championing individual workers" he should have some understanding of why unions are necessary to protect workers rights. But, once his show is over he's taking money from anti union industrialist and lobbying against unions. For example he supports the police and police unions but, Amazon workers trying to organize is bad even though they are pissing in bottles because they aren't allowed to take bathroom breaks.

You say

So Unions are corrupt? Why were they created in the first place? We should just get rid of them and go back to trusting the people running the industries who created the need for unions in the first place? Everyone is always thinking and arguing from positions of absolutism. Unions bad/Industrialists good. Industrialists bad/Unions good. There are bad actors on both sides, welcome to the human condition. It's never going to be perfect. I think unions are a needed check against companies whose first priority is always going to be whats best for themselves and not their employees.

While he was filming that show he was part of a union that was protecting his rights.


Amazon workers can strike. Police and public safety can not... there is a difference. And not allowing employees piss breaks? C'mon, man... that's against laws already in place, bruh.
MACS Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
Gene363 wrote:
Hummm

My body, my choice!

Your loan, your payments.


100 fookin percent!!
DrafterX Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Curious what the interest rates are.. had a loan years ago but I don't remember.. I could see forgiving interest but not the principal... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
rfenst wrote:
I am not talking about unmotivated/poorly prepared people. Unmotivated deserve to flunk out of any kind of school. Poorly prepared are wasting their time and money and won't do well enough in any school to deserve financial aid. And, by using the term "financial aid," I am not referring just to college.


Unmotivated/poorly trained people deserve a living wage.
BuckyB93 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
The interest rate on my loan is about 3% (if I remember correctly). It was taken out last school year. 0% while in school then interest and payments starts 6 or 9 months after graduation.
frankj1 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
Frank... I can explain the problem with the rising cost of education quite simply. The government got involved. Period.

Gov't loans for education made it easier for the institutions to charge more, and they damn sure did. People took out more loans than they should have because Uncle Sugar let them.

Wonder if the administrators of these colleges and our politicians (both sides) were discussing the matter? (ya damn right they were)

Anyway... I served our country and Uncle Sugar paid mine. But I earned it. I would support paying off anyone's student debt who did a 4 year hitch. Otherwise, f--k you... pay your own debt. You signed your name and promised to pay.

I did not, and neither did the other taxpayers. My $.02

the gov was involved when Caren and I borrowed in the 70's.
Kid's were accepted or rejected prior to discussion of payments.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,665
Why can't you explain puns to kleptomaniacs?
They always take things literally
frankj1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
there was a certain amount each of my kids could get year to year, maybe the Pell thing? Stafford? I don't remember.
I paid the difference, left them each with roughly 10K, but I also told them each what I would pay based on the cost of state schools like UMass Amherst etc.
Told them anything above that they'd better get scholarships from the private schools they desired to attend.
One ended up going to UMass Dartmouth.
One to UMass Amherst.
One to Westfield State.
I paid damn near the exact amount I figured!

Filed financial statements each year to determine if and what the kids were eligible to get.
But I got them off campus ASAP once eligible. So much cheaper to pay rent and let them figure out how to create meals on budget than pay the schools to do it all.

Tuition was a fraction of overall price of schools.

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