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The red wave that wasn’t.
Abrignac Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 16,296
Republicans need to seriously consider replacing their leadership. They totally blew their greatest opportunity. But, when your biggest message is that the other side sucks you’re not going to convince a majority of fence sitters to vote your way.
Ktaz Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-07-2022
Posts: 8
We are turning into a socialist country, most American people are totally blind to it and by the time they see it, it will be too late. There is something funny going on with elections, why are they always late counting mail in ballots in democratic cities in red states so late where days later the election boards always find more ballots days later and they always heavily favor the democrats for them to get just enough votes to win. The same thing will happen in the Georgia run off. This type of continuous election issues never happen before we had mail in ballots and voting machines hooked up to computers and the internet. We went to bed knowing the winner, why does it take days now?
Sunoverbeach Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 13,253
It's the hanging chads. Fuques chit up.


Whenever you dig up dirt or a rock, it could be the first time in a million years it's been in the sunlight
Abrignac Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 16,296
Ktaz wrote:
We are turning into a socialist country, most American people are totally blind to it and by the time they see it, it will be too late. There is something funny going on with elections, why are they always late counting mail in ballots in democratic cities in red states so late where days later the election boards always find more ballots days later and they always heavily favor the democrats for them to get just enough votes to win. The same thing will happen in the Georgia run off. This type of continuous election issues never happen before we had mail in ballots and voting machines hooked up to computers and the internet. We went to bed knowing the winner, why does it take days now?


Real simple. Because election laws are administered by the states. Many states allow ballots as long as they are post marked no later than Election Day. Yet, if mailed on Election Day it may take a few days to reach its destination. Once there those ballots must be counted.

As far as the country turning Socialist, if that is the case it has absolutely nothing to do with vote counting and everything to do with the two major parties and their platform. One party paints itself as the champion of the un-privileged while the other simply limits its campaign to the incompetence of its party leader.

If the Republicans are interested in doing away with incompetence it needs to start with its own enema and flush out its leadership. It’s appalling they were unable to win control of the Senate and to still have the House in play with Biden in the White House.

However, it’s no surprise. Across the country Republican candidates have campaigned on widely UNPOPULAR issues. Probably the most vivid example is abortion. Poll after poll has shown a vast majority of eligible voters feel that decision is one to be made by the pregnant woman and her physician, and certainly NOT government.

Republicans also talk about providing an alternative to Social Security. This however scares the chit out of retirees because they are on a fixed income and worry what could happen if the Republican plan doesn’t work. The conventional wisdom being “a bird in the hand….”

Then there is their penchant for running totally unqualified candidates against sitting members of Congress. It’s down right reprehensible to believe an unproven candidate can unseat an incumbent. I’ve never seen a study, but I bet my next paycheck the incumbent wins 98.2% of the time. This is where Hershel Walker enters the picture. He’s been sued so there is a public record laying out his prowess for being a captain of industry. It’s pretty dismal. Yet, it’s down right comical that he runs as a Pro-life candidate when apparently there is tangible proof in the way of receipts that he has paid for multiple sexual partners to abort “unborn children”.

Before you call me a leftie you should know that in the past 3 election cycles every candidate I have voted for was Republican except 1. The exception was a candidate in a local election. Before that exception, I can’t remember voting for a Democrat.
RiverRatRuss Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 339
Abrignac wrote:
Real simple. Because election laws are administered by the states. Many states allow ballots as long as they are post marked no later than Election Day. Yet, if mailed on Election Day it may take a few days to reach its destination. Once there those ballots must be counted.

As far as the country turning Socialist, if that is the case it has absolutely nothing to do with vote counting and everything to do with the two major parties and their platform. One party paints itself as the champion of the un-privileged while the other simply limits its campaign to the incompetence of its party leader.

If the Republicans are interested in doing away with incompetence it needs to start with its own enema and flush out its leadership. It’s appalling they were unable to win control of the Senate and to still have the House in play with Biden in the White House.

However, it’s no surprise. Across the country Republican candidates have campaigned on widely UNPOPULAR issues. Probably the most vivid example is abortion. Poll after poll has shown a vast majority of eligible voters feel that decision is one to be made by the pregnant woman and her physician, and certainly NOT government.

Republicans also talk about providing an alternative to Social Security. This however scares the chit out of retirees because they are on a fixed income and worry what could happen if the Republican plan doesn’t work. The conventional wisdom being “a bird in the hand….”

Then there is their penchant for running totally unqualified candidates against sitting members of Congress. It’s down right reprehensible to believe an unproven candidate can unseat an incumbent. I’ve never seen a study, but I bet my next paycheck the incumbent wins 98.2% of the time. This is where Hershel Walker enters the picture. He’s been sued so there is a public record laying out his prowess for being a captain of industry. It’s pretty dismal. Yet, it’s down right comical that he runs as a Pro-life candidate when apparently there is tangible proof in the way of receipts that he has paid for multiple sexual partners to abort “unborn children”.

Before you call me a leftie you should know that in the past 3 election cycles every candidate I have voted for was Republican except 1. The exception was a candidate in a local election. Before that exception, I can’t remember voting for a Democrat.


Well Stated.. I'm beginning to think you and I could sit down and have a cigar and a few beers together some day... since I was 18 and voting I voted Democrat twice by Proxy.. IE: Ross Parol ( a Billionaire Independent) my vote swung to the Dems... I voted Trump and possibly will again. WHY? Because he is a Billionaire Money Man) who they (Either Party) cannot control with Threats, SO they (both Parties) use Taxpayers Dollar$ to try and RUB IN OUT!!! Wake UP People!!!
but I also feel he is Arrogant enough to run Independent and again another Ross Perot situation for this Nation... and the Dems remain in Control of the WH..
Abrignac Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 16,296
RiverRatRuss wrote:
Well Stated.. I'm beginning to think you and I could sit down and have a cigar and a few beers together some day... since I was 18 and voting I voted Democrat twice by Proxy.. IE: Ross Parol ( a Billionaire Independent) my vote swung to the Dems... I voted Trump and possibly will again. WHY? Because he is a Billionaire Money Man) who they (Either Party) cannot control with Threats, SO they (both Parties) use Taxpayers Dollar$ to try and RUB IN OUT!!! Wake UP People!!!
but I also feel he is Arrogant enough to run Independent and again another Ross Perot situation for this Nation... and the Dems remain in Control of the WH..


IMHO voting for Trump again, which I already did twice, is very, very unwise. The first time I did I liked what he said. The second time was because Biden was his opponent. He is the epitome who who not to vote for under any circumstances. We need direction and leadership to get there. He has neither.

He proved that he has absolutely no idea what it takes to get anything accomplished as a President. To move forth an agenda one must be able to work with those who have the ability to pass legislation. He’s such an **** that no one will work with him.

It’s absolutely no one’s fault but his own that he was all but useless as President. Yes he was useless. He was unable to get Congress to codify any meaning agenda items into law. What he accomplished was done so via Executive Order which was promptly undone by his successor. As a result, he left absolutely no legacy as a leader.

Instead of using his position to advance an agenda he used it to make fun of anyone he disliked. HE provided all the ammunition needed to torpedo what agenda he professed to have.

I travel all over the country. In doing so, by a measure of 10:1 or better I hear how Trump was the best President we ever had. Yet, what did he really accomplish?

I truly hope sooner than later Republican voters become to see Trump for the charlatan he is and look past him for someone who can find a way to lead the party in a direction that will overcome the Democrats lock on the everyday working man. To do so, the party needs to tell the evangelical wing to fall in line or go elsewhere.
8trackdisco Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 57,604
Abrignac wrote:
IMHO voting for Trump again, which I already did twice, is very, very unwise. The first time I did I liked what he said. The second time was because Biden was his opponent. He is the epitome who who not to vote for under any circumstances. We need direction and leadership to get there. He has neither.

He proved that he has absolutely no idea what it takes to get anything accomplished as a President. To move forth an agenda one must be able to work with those who have the ability to pass legislation. He’s such an **** that no one will work with him.

It’s absolutely no one’s fault but his own that he was all but useless as President. Yes he was useless. He was unable to get Congress to codify any meaning agenda items into law. What he accomplished was done so via Executive Order which was promptly undone by his successor. As a result, he left absolutely no legacy as a leader.

Instead of using his position to advance an agenda he used it to make fun of anyone he disliked. HE provided all the ammunition needed to torpedo what agenda he professed to have.

I travel all over the country. In doing so, by a measure of 10:1 or better I hear how Trump was the best President we ever had. Yet, what did he really accomplish?

I truly hope sooner than later Republican voters become to see Trump for the charlatan he is and look past him for someone who can find a way to lead the party in a direction that will overcome the Democrats lock on the everyday working man. To do so, the party needs to tell the evangelical wing to fall in line or go elsewhere.


Currently too many posting here want Trump or someone more conservative than Trump. See that hear loudly and often. Faith in some of these people waking up in time is at about 50/50. They’ve got less than two years to have a headasheectomy.

If the midterms weren’t a wake up call, what more do they need?
Abrignac Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 16,296
8trackdisco wrote:
Currently too many posting here want Trump or someone more conservative than Trump. See that hear loudly and often. Faith in some of these people waking up in time is at about 50/50. They’ve got less than two years to have a headasheectomy.

If the midterms weren’t a wake up call, what more do they need?


One can wish. But, I don’t see that path forward and once again they will be wondering what happened.
8trackdisco Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 57,604
Abrignac wrote:
One can wish. But, I don’t see that path forward and once again they will be wondering what happened.


Definition of insanity.
Abrignac Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 16,296
8trackdisco wrote:
Definition of insanity.


You’re correct. They b1tch about the travesty of the situation, but then do the same thing over and over again.
MACS Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 76,501
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjYJy5JphyU
Brewha Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
Abrignac wrote:
Republicans need to seriously consider replacing their leadership. They totally blew their greatest opportunity. But, when your biggest message is that the other side sucks you’re not going to convince a majority of fence sitters to vote your way.

+1 on this from a noted Lefty - me.

In the past years I have seen the Right, and this place, drift into never discussing platforms and only saying the left is "bad".

Q: "Which policies of Biden's don't you agree with?"
A: "Let's Go Brandon!"

Q: "When you say too socialist, what do you mean? too much funding for highways?"
A: "Libtards hate America!"

Even the Republican candidates run on vague, meanness things:
"Keeping us safe"
"Stopping Liberal extremists"
"Make America great again"

In fairness - I'm not sure the Right actually has platform to run on.
Aside from screw the middle class and give money to the rich.

So they just keep selling the idea of hating the Left....
RayR Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 6,467
Brewha wrote:
+1 on this from a noted Lefty - me.

In the past years I have seen the Right, and this place, drift into never discussing platforms and only saying the left is "bad".

Q: "Which policies of Biden's don't you agree with?"
A: "Let's Go Brandon!"

Q: "When you say too socialist, what do you mean? too much funding for highways?"
A: "Libtards hate America!"

Even the Republican candidates run on vague, meanness things:
"Keeping us safe"
"Stopping Liberal extremists"
"Make America great again"

In fairness - I'm not sure the Right actually has platform to run on.
Aside from screw the middle class and give money to the rich.

So they just keep selling the idea of hating the Left....


You are making up disinformation again.

Righty candidates ran on securing the border from Biden's illegal invaders and murderous Fentanyl smuggling.
Righty candidates ran on stopping the rampant crime in the streets in LEFTY run cities.
Righty candidates ran on stopping Biden's poverty causing massive price inflation.
Righty candidates ran on stopping LEFTIES from grooming and mutilating children.

That's just a short list on why the LEFTY EXTREMISTS needs to be hated.








MACS Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 76,501
Jesus, Brewha... is that all you ever do is make sheit up outa thin air?

None of that happened here. Literally none of it.

And it's the LEFTY's who don't want to talk about anything. For fugg's sake they consider anything they don't like hate speech and protest any time a conservative wants to speak. They don't accept invitations to debate or discuss anything because they know they'll look like 'tards.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 13,253
The Hobbit was a book about the dangers of greed. The Hobbit films were ruined because of greed.
Brewha Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
MACS wrote:
Jesus, Brewha... is that all you ever do is make sheit up outa thin air?

None of that happened here. Literally none of it.

And it's the LEFTY's who don't want to talk about anything. For fugg's sake they consider anything they don't like hate speech and protest any time a conservative wants to speak. They don't accept invitations to debate or discuss anything because they know they'll look like 'tards.

Macs, you’re one of the first people here that when given a logical argument resort to calling others stupid.
Because most often you have nothing except a YouTube opinion piece that told you what to think.
And you rage at opinions you don’t understand - which seem to put you raging often.

Thanks for making my case for me.
8trackdisco Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 57,604
Brewha wrote:
+1 on this from a noted Lefty - me.

In the past years I have seen the Right, and this place, drift into never discussing platforms and only saying the left is "bad".

Q: "Which policies of Biden's don't you agree with?"
A: "Let's Go Brandon!"

Q: "When you say too socialist, what do you mean? too much funding for highways?"
A: "Libtards hate America!"

Even the Republican candidates run on vague, meanness things:
"Keeping us safe"
"Stopping Liberal extremists"
"Make America great again"

In fairness - I'm not sure the Right actually has platform to run on.
Aside from screw the middle class and give money to the rich.

So they just keep selling the idea of hating the Left....


Every couple of years, you post something I mostly agree with. Not 98.2%. But more like... 69%.
Will watch for your next such post in 2024.

Engaging in discussion and debate is a dying art. Most people weaponize their position, and shout down their opponents.
Like MACS has said a bunch of times, there aren't any people here he wouldn't be willing to sit down with and have a cigar. Politics wouldn't come up, or there may be a little elbow once or twice and that would be it.

I read all but one person here. Blocked them for a week, then read the same crap. Skipped him for 2 then 4 weeks. Up up to a month now with an increased quality of life. Of course if someone quotes him, his writings appear. Makes it easy to see I'm missing nothing.

Problem is, it is a gateway drug to blocking more and more and we rip the fabric of any unity left.

Am right of center- no surprise there I'm sure to the left-learners here who've seen my posts over the years. Although I tried to be the canary in the coal mine warning of the Trump Influence for months and what it would mean for the mid terms. In this case, the Republicans were the ones that got gassed.

Hopeful of a Trump fever breaks soon. Next up for the demigod is for him to ruin DeSantis over the next 18 months while a younger, moderate dem runs for prez in 24 and only has the stroll through the bleak, hellscape Trump makes of the party.

There should be self reflection of the mess. Remember watching the morning after the 2016 election, watching MSNBC & CNN weep openly (while I laughed) with the questions. What does the Democratic party stand for? Where do they go from here.

The exact same question is being asked now of the elephants.
8trackdisco Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 57,604
(8track wonders to self)

Is this all there is, politically?

All culture wars, all the time?

I'll try to dial back my contributions in the Political realm. It doesn't bring me much joy being right. More disappointed than anything at the lack of self reflection.

What went wrong?
What needs to change internally?
What do conservatives do next?
What is the message?

You either win or you learn- there is no real losing. Unless you refuse to learn.

I'm hopeful of 2024 ending up with a right of center president and a split of congress. Either side owning it all makes monsters.
Brewha Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
8trackdisco wrote:
Every couple of years, you post something I mostly agree with. Not 98.2%. But more like... 69%.
Will watch for your next such post in 2024.

Engaging in discussion and debate is a dying art. Most people weaponize their position, and shout down their opponents.
Like MACS has said a bunch of times, there aren't any people here he wouldn't be willing to sit down with and have a cigar. Politics wouldn't come up, or there may be a little elbow once or twice and that would be it.

I read all but one person here. Blocked them for a week, then read the same crap. Skipped him for 2 then 4 weeks. Up up to a month now with an increased quality of life. Of course if someone quotes him, his writings appear. Makes it easy to see I'm missing nothing.

Problem is, it is a gateway drug to blocking more and more and we rip the fabric of any unity left.

Am right of center- no surprise there I'm sure to the left-learners here who've seen my posts over the years. Although I've seen I tried to be the canary in the coal mine warning of the Trump Influence for months and what it would mean for the mid terms. In this case, the Republicans were the ones that got gassed.

Hopeful of a Trump fever breaks soon. Next up for the demigod is for him to ruin DeSantis over the next 18 months while a younger, moderate dem runs for prez in 24 and only has the stroll through the bleak, hellscape Trump makes of the party.

There should be self reflection of the mess. Remember watching the morning after the 2016 election, watching MSNBC & CNN weep openly (while I laughed) with the questions. What does the Democratic party stand for? Where do they go from here.

The exact same question is being asked now of the elephants.







Not to speak for too many, or be too vague, but in general:

Reestablishing women's reproductive rights - because they are people.

Making businesses and 1%’s pay taxes like we do.

Marijuana legalization.

Green power and usage initiatives

And the list goes on….
8trackdisco Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 57,604
Brewha wrote:
Not to speak for too many, or be too vague, but in general:

Reestablishing women's reproductive rights - because they are people.

Making businesses and 1%’s pay taxes like we do.

Marijuana legalization.

Green power and usage initiatives

And the list goes on….


In the effort to make this more of an exchange of ideas instead of a flame war, I'll try a bit of engagement- knowing you and I have had some fairly nasty clashes over the decades.

Women's Repro Writes\Abortion: How do we navigate men's reproductive rights? If the man and the woman disagree with whether the pregnancy should continue, how do they meet in the middle? She wants the baby to die, the father can't do anything about it? If he wants the pregnancy to end and she doesn't, should he have to pay for child support?

Business Paying "Their fair share.": Don't think either side of the aisle will really do that. The lobbyists and money are too ingrained in making loopholes for all of right and left mega rich. Do you have a map of what that would look like?

Marijuana: Yes, we likely mostly agree on this. Same problem as immediately above. Healthcare and Pharma are two of the three biggest donators. Those companies aren't going to give up the gravy train without a fight. Do you think our esteemed legislators with say No, Thanks to the donations? How would you remedy?

Green Power: The left has to be honest of what that looks like in reality. Am in favor of the concept- cleaner air, energy, water etc. is the goal. The devil is in the details. The whole coal burning power plants to power "clean" electric cars. That is a place the left has their head in the sand. What am I missing?
RayR Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 6,467
Brewha wrote:
Not to speak for too many, or be too vague, but in general:

Reestablishing women's reproductive rights - because they are people.

Who took away woman's reproductive rights?
They didn't lose the right to reproduce, they have just had limits set in many states that limit their killin' what they reproduce. I think you just hate the system America was founded on...federalism. You want to nationalize all sorts of authoritarian creepy stuff from sea to shining sea.

Making businesses and 1%’s pay taxes like we do.

Let's just face facts, you just think everybody should get plundered by your Marxist income tax equally to pay for the authoritarian creepy government stuff. You're just jealous that there is no equity of misery in the whole distasteful progressive tax system But it's by Progressive design. Do you really think the Pelosi or the Biden crime families want to "pay their fair share" like they want a prole like you to pay? LOL

Marijuana legalization.

No argument there but prohibitions have been implemented by nationalizing them because a dicktate from the center is soooo... Progressive! Can't leave it up to the states to decide what happens under their individual sovereignties and constitutions, can't have that system of federalism say the LEFTIES typically, but how amazing is it when they rediscover their state rights and tell Washington D.C to go fug off.

Green power and usage initiatives

There you go again comrade, you think the government can just wave a magic want and tell industry what they have to produce and consumers what they have to buy. We can all disregard the facts like when the technology doesn't exist yet or it's economically irrational or environmentally destructive.

And the list goes on….

Yes, I'm sure comrade.

BuckyB93 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 12,833
Brewha wrote:
Not to speak for too many, or be too vague, but in general:

Reestablishing women's reproductive rights - because they are people.

Making businesses and 1%’s pay taxes like we do.

Marijuana legalization.

Green power and usage initiatives

And the list goes on….


I'll toss my hat in the ring. I would paint myself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I know, they are canned phrases and sometime in conflict with each other.

Reestablishing women's reproductive rights - because they are people.
I'm not pro abortion and I'm not anti abortion. Yes, its your body and your right to chose to do with it as you see fit. When does the fetus or unborn child have rights? I can't answer that. Complicating factor is does the male have a right to the child? You can't force the woman to carry on a pregnancy, but where does the male's wishes and wants fit into the equation? Again, I have no answer to that.

Supreme Court didn't outlaw abortion, just said it's not up to the Federal Government to dictate. State's have to figure that out themselves.

I have no dog in the fight. I have two healthy and wonderful kids (teens which is sometimes a challenge). I don't know what my life would be without them. So for me abolition was not on the table but my thoughts an wants shouldn't be passed on to others.

Making businesses and 1%’s pay taxes like we do.

Additional taxes are not going to solve any thing. Sure there are plenty of businesses and corporations that use the loopholes to get away with not paying taxes. That's been going on since... forever. Additional taxes on the "rich" is not going to settle the problem. They make the rules.

Question: How many folks in the three branches of government are millionaires.
Answer: All of them.

Yet they all preach to be there (both parties) to help the common folks. No they are not... they are there to get a cushy job and collect a nice salary, great pension, awesome benefits then be a political advisor or some consultant after they get voted out.

Marijuana legalization.
This is not a solid platform to run on. Rather stupid, in my opinion. It's legal in many states. For those states that it is nol legal, you can still buy it just about anywhere. I don't use it but I'm not one that is against it. Just strike down the law and work on something more important.

Green power and usage initiatives
I encourage sustainable energy but to date there is nothing that can replace the reliably of our fossil fuels. The technology isn't there yet. Will we get there? in my opinion - yes. But cutting off your nose to spite your face is not the way to go. We need fossil fuels to maintain our living until the other "green" energy can come online in a reliable fashion.

This topic reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend. He's not a super church or God person, but made me think Re: humans and energy. Some higher power has it all figured out for us on this topic.

In the beginning humans burned wood to release energy. Cook with, keep warm with it. God/nature made the trees and wood so humans could harvest it for easy energy to use.

Then we (humans) discovered coal and oil. It's the next step of energy evolution for harvesting energy on the planet. Solar, wind, and other alternative sources will come next in human evolution. Fossil fuels are just a life line from the higher power until we can find out next primary energy source.

Neither he or I were on mind altering drugs at the time.

SoMetimeS Y geT soEme inTRestinG inFO and In sIghT from P30ple.
ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 58,023
Trump had less to do with this that funding decisions by anti Trumper republiCANTS and funding by rats that funnel money…..oh like a couple certain people, a crypto guy and others.

But once again Orange man bad, unless you need a scape goat.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,916
BuckyB93 wrote:
I'll toss my hat in the ring. I would paint myself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I know, they are canned phrases and sometime in conflict with each other.

Reestablishing women's reproductive rights - because they are people.
I'm not pro abortion and I'm not anti abortion. Yes, its your body and your right to chose to do with it as you see fit. When does the fetus or unborn child have rights? I can't answer that. Complicating factor is does the male have a right to the child? You can't force the woman to carry on a pregnancy, but where does the male's wishes and wants fit into the equation? Again, I have no answer to that.

Supreme Court didn't outlaw abortion, just said it's not up to the Federal Government to dictate. State's have to figure that out themselves.

I have no dog in the fight. I have two healthy and wonderful kids (teens which is sometimes a challenge). I don't know what my life would be without them. So for me abolition was not on the table but my thoughts an wants shouldn't be passed on to others.

Making businesses and 1%’s pay taxes like we do.

Additional taxes are not going to solve any thing. Sure there are plenty of businesses and corporations that use the loopholes to get away with not paying taxes. That's been going on since... forever. Additional taxes on the "rich" is not going to settle the problem. They make the rules.

Question: How many folks in the three branches of government are millionaires.
Answer: All of them.

Yet they all preach to be there (both parties) to help the common folks. No they are not... they are there to get a cushy job and collect a nice salary, great pension, awesome benefits then be a political advisor or some consultant after they get voted out.

Marijuana legalization.
This is not a solid platform to run on. Rather stupid, in my opinion. It's legal in many states. For those states that it is nol legal, you can still buy it just about anywhere. I don't use it but I'm not one that is against it. Just strike down the law and work on something more important.

Green power and usage initiatives
I encourage sustainable energy but to date there is nothing that can replace the reliably of our fossil fuels. The technology isn't there yet. Will we get there? in my opinion - yes. But cutting off your nose to spite your face is not the way to go. We need fossil fuels to maintain our living until the other "green" energy can come online in a reliable fashion.

This topic reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend. He's not a super church or God person, but made me think Re: humans and energy. Some higher power has it all figured out for us on this topic.

In the beginning humans burned wood to release energy. Cook with, keep warm with it. God/nature made the trees and wood so humans could harvest it for easy energy to use.

Then we (humans) discovered coal and oil. It's the next step of energy evolution for harvesting energy on the planet. Solar, wind, and other alternative sources will come next in human evolution. Fossil fuels are just a life line from the higher power until we can find out next primary energy source.

Neither he or I were on mind altering drugs at the time.

SoMetimeS Y geT soEme inTRestinG inFO and In sIghT from P30ple.



Super POV's that I share. I'll add my part to this.

Abortion - It's not a reproductive right. It the cessation of Life. Wanted or not, whether he wants to keep or kill or she wants to keep or kill it only takes one. Just like Divorce. Party over. The stickiest part of it for me was taxpayer money being used and laundered for the DNC over their kill mills. Eugenics is a slippery slope that has brought more than it's share of misery onto the planet and being propelled by the nastiest of individuals for various sinister reasons but they all disavow the sanctity of Life. Government should have no part in it. The ruling to put this issue back into the states hands righted the wrong that the Supreme Court made. Nobody, (sadly) is denying anyone's "right" to an abortion. I find it humorous when I see mothers crying "My Body, My Choice" at pro-abortion rallies when they've made theirs. They chose life. I weep for those that use it as birth control and the conversations I've had personally with those that did exactly that. They border on the morality decision and regret much like the Transgender swell movement the government wants to force. Once you remove your testicles, there's no going back.


Taxation - Want to make everyone pay their fair share? Flat tax. End of story. Thomas Paine was 100% correct. Now, we would have to dial in the right percentage and my fear is that it will always creep up.

Marijuana - When more than half of the states in the Union vote for legalization it will force the Federal government to change their laws. The states wield all the power, the Federal believes it does. Certain states like Colorado have done miraculous things with their new taxed cash cow. I fear that like every other cash cow, they get gored and devoured and then discarded.

"Green" Energy - It's not green. Its a sham. A complete fools gold Don Quixote pipe dream. The mining of the rare minerals exhaust more carbon than they say they're killing with shutting down the Petroleum industry. That cannot ever be shut down either. The setup costs are all on the backs of the taxpayer...again. Don't cry to me about paying your fair share when this is another taxpayer funded pipe dream that most don't even agree with. Can we do better? Yes. Solar where it makes sense should be explored more but the limitations rely on batteries like the cars. Without them watching tv at night or during a storm...naw, its not going to happen. Wind? Far too unsightly and the payoff is minimal and the detractor is the wind doesn't always blow. Daddy had a many sailboats and I know all too well what "dead calm" is all about. Do we need to do something about alternative sources of energy? Yes. Making hostile nations richer by capping off exploration, delivery and use of our own resources and the soaring costs of inflation doing that...see them for what they're doing. Its wrong. We did get off whale oil so there's a glimmer of hope for the cessation but making sure its even plausible is a certainty. Not something to just yank the rug out from under your feet to see what happens by people that aren't qualified to make any informed decisions in the matter. I'm serious about that one too. If you think for one second I'm going to make any decision based on Manbearpig, JOhnKErry, the WEF or the UN's wants you're fu(king crazy.

Thanks Bucky.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,916
ZRX1200 wrote:
Trump had less to do with this that funding decisions by anti Trumper republiCANTS and funding by rats that funnel money…..oh like a couple certain people, a crypto guy and others.

But once again Orange man bad, unless you need a scape goat.



https://www.axios.com/2022/06/01/trump-endorsement-tracker-midterms

Inconvenient truths. Imagine the races if the Turtle hadn't yanked funding? Who's blaming who and who had the power to effect the change.
Abrignac Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 16,296
wrote:
Taxation - Want to make everyone pay their fair share? Flat tax. End of story. Thomas Paine was 100% correct. Now, we would have to dial in the right percentage and my fear is that it will always creep up.


That will surely cause the masses to migrate towards the party that promotes it.

RollEyes
Brewha Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
8trackdisco wrote:
In the effort to make this more of an exchange of ideas instead of a flame war, I'll try a bit of engagement- knowing you and I have had some fairly nasty clashes over the decades.

Women's Repro Writes\Abortion: How do we navigate men's reproductive rights? If the man and the woman disagree with whether the pregnancy should continue, how do they meet in the middle? She wants the baby to die, the father can't do anything about it? If he wants the pregnancy to end and she doesn't, should he have to pay for child support?

Business Paying "Their fair share.": Don't think either side of the aisle will really do that. The lobbyists and money are too ingrained in making loopholes for all of right and left mega rich. Do you have a map of what that would look like?

Marijuana: Yes, we likely mostly agree on this. Same problem as immediately above. Healthcare and Pharma are two of the three biggest donators. Those companies aren't going to give up the gravy train without a fight. Do you think our esteemed legislators with say No, Thanks to the donations? How would you remedy?

Green Power: The left has to be honest of what that looks like in reality. Am in favor of the concept- cleaner air, energy, water etc. is the goal. The devil is in the details. The whole coal burning power plants to power "clean" electric cars. That is a place the left has their head in the sand. What am I missing?

I think the subject of this thread is Republican messaging and platform. If you are a republican, or understand them, can you give simple examples as I just did?

Really, let's stay on topic.

I note that on the platform issues above you have - many questions. But what is the Right's platform on these?
Brewha Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
DrMaddVibe wrote:

"Green" Energy - It's not green. Its a sham. A complete fools gold Don Quixote pipe dream. The mining of the rare minerals exhaust more carbon than they say they're killing with shutting down the Petroleum industry. That cannot ever be shut down either. The setup costs are all on the backs of the taxpayer...again. Don't cry to me about paying your fair share when this is another taxpayer funded pipe dream that most don't even agree with. Can we do better? Yes. Solar where it makes sense should be explored more but the limitations rely on batteries like the cars. Without them watching tv at night or during a storm...naw, its not going to happen. Wind? Far too unsightly and the payoff is minimal and the detractor is the wind doesn't always blow. Daddy had a many sailboats and I know all too well what "dead calm" is all about. Do we need to do something about alternative sources of energy? Yes. Making hostile nations richer by capping off exploration, delivery and use of our own resources and the soaring costs of inflation doing that...see them for what they're doing. Its wrong. We did get off whale oil so there's a glimmer of hope for the cessation but making sure its even plausible is a certainty. Not something to just yank the rug out from under your feet to see what happens by people that aren't qualified to make any informed decisions in the matter. I'm serious about that one too. If you think for one second I'm going to make any decision based on Manbearpig, JOhnKErry, the WEF or the UN's wants you're fu(king crazy.



DMV, speaking as a career engineer with more than 3 decades in practice, and based on your opinions above, I can assure that you do not understand the topic or technology.

Really - you seem full on against something you do not have a grasp of.
RayR Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 6,467
Brewha wrote:
I think the subject of this thread is Republican messaging and platform. If you are a republican, or understand them, can you give simple examples as I just did?

Really, let's stay on topic.

I note that on the platform issues above you have - many questions. But what is the Right's platform on these?


I think you're denying the fact that you were already given different viewpoints that challenged yours from the right and you chose to ignore them.

burning_sticks Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-17-2020
Posts: 60
The declaration says you have the right to LIFE, not the right to be killed

Business don't pay taxes, they pre-collect it for the government.

Marijuana, meh

Green energy, isn't.

MACS Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 76,501
Here's a serious question:

If a person shoots a pregnant woman in the belly, but she lives and the baby dies... that person is charged with MURDER. So in that case, the law says the child is a living being. Now if that woman was going to get an abortion anyway... does it change? Or is it still murder?

If she was not going to get an abortion... but the law says abortion is cool and she can kill the baby... why charge the perpetrator with murder, then?

If it's a life, it's a life... and if we're following the science, the vast majority of biologists agree that life begins at conception.

Edit: And in 98.2% of all pregnancies... they can be avoided. I'd bet even less than 1.8% are due to rape or incest or nefarious reasons... it's because people are too lazy or stupid to avoid the pregnancy in the first place and want to abort it because it's inconvenient.
HockeyDad Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 44,265
It looks like the Republicans will take the House.

The Democrats keep the Senate or even gain one seat depending on if Hershel Walker loses.

Government will return to a stalemate and nothing will get done unless it is really important to everyone. (Good thing!)

The Democrat ploy to fund Trump candidates in Republican primaries to beat them in the general election worked great.

McConnell not backing Trump candidates also worked great for him.

Mitch McConnell needs to be replaced as Senate leadership.

I hear Trump is going to announce he’s running for Presidency today. This needs to not happen.

Trump and McConnell need to go away.


The Democrats lost their “mandate” but will double down anyway. People voted for inflation and recession and teachers know better than parents.




DrMaddVibe Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,916
Brewha wrote:
DMV, speaking as a career engineer with more than 3 decades in practice, and based on your opinions above, I can assure that you do not understand the topic or technology.

Really - you seem full on against something you do not have a grasp of.



With 3 decades you say? You come across as a talking point only parrot. You've never said anything remotely intelligent in the field of green energy.

No, I will stick by what I know. It takes a Cat 543 HP engine burning fossil fuel all day with trucks moving it to make up for their 8 hour battery version that next to nobody has to make a battery. All for a useless car that gets it's charge from a coal or nuclear power plant that cannot go more than 400 miles on a single charge with perfect conditions. So, until it becomes an electric car powered by solar or wind...you can keep thinking you're the smartest person on the topic...and only you will be able to believe it. Nobody else does!
Brewha Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
DrMaddVibe wrote:
With 3 decades you say? You come across as a talking point only parrot. You've never said anything remotely intelligent in the field of green energy.

No, I will stick by what I know. It takes a Cat 543 HP engine burning fossil fuel all day with trucks moving it to make up for their 8 hour battery version that next to nobody has to make a battery. All for a useless car that gets it's charge from a coal or nuclear power plant that cannot go more than 400 miles on a single charge with perfect conditions. So, until it becomes an electric car powered by solar or wind...you can keep thinking you're the smartest person on the topic...and only you will be able to believe it. Nobody else does!

That's just it - what you "know" is the problem.

Electricity made in any power plant is far cleaner than making power in an ICE vehicle. And more that twice as efficient in life cycle usage for the EV.

With every car manufacture investing heavily to develop and sell EV's and PEHV's it should be clear that there are many reasons to loose ICE vehicles. You know that, right?

To your credit, you seem 100% behind developing wind and solar. And I'm sure you know that with the new LFP batteries they are making now along with the next gens that are coming the battery issues are surmountable.

So what's the rub? It just takes time and resolve to get there.
Like the moon.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,916
Brewha wrote:
That's just it - what you "know" is the problem.

Electricity made in any power plant is far cleaner than making power in an ICE vehicle. And more that twice as efficient in life cycle usage for the EV.

With every car manufacture investing heavily to develop and sell EV's and PEHV's it should be clear that there are many reasons to loose ICE vehicles. You know that, right?

To your credit, you seem 100% behind developing wind and solar. And I'm sure you know that with the new LFP batteries they are making now along with the next gens that are coming the battery issues are surmountable.

So what's the rub? It just takes time and resolve to get there.
Like the moon.



You're not taking into consideration the manufacture, the maintenance and the disposal either. You're only factor is operation. In that, the internal combustion engine owns them. Total recycle.

As for what car companies do...I can remember the Corvair, the Pinto, the Vega and even the Edsel. They made them and they yanked them. They're not infallible. They're fickle little companies that vie for government contracts and want their noses in the trough first and last. I know as a consumer I have no need for an electric vehicle. I use mine to haul a 30' 3 horse slant w/ living quarters trailer...horse feed, animal feed, animals and travel with it. I don't need to "plug in" every hundred miles to get there. Not going to happen. As we get closer to "doomsday" watch these companies hedge their bets as the consumer doesn't need them or even want them.

The rub??? You and the current political party are hellbent on a scorched earth policy to get there. There's no need to rush. According to Manbearpig...we're already dead. According to AOC...maybe a bit over 8 years. While we race head first off the cliff other nations like China (which holds ALL the cards in the battery department!) won't begin to even do a thing to limit carbon emissions until 2060 and other stages are much later. There's nothing wrong with a continual phase in till its either made acceptable or they can perfect the technology. With China holding all the cards in that department...I'm betting its a very long time next to never. They want America gone. They want Capitalism dead. They want all of our resources and are salivating that we've capped them for them. For the taking. They want the moon too.
MACS Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 76,501
Here's the truth of it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6EiRDWUeXI
Brewha Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
DrMaddVibe wrote:
You're not taking into consideration the manufacture, the maintenance and the disposal either. You're only factor is operation. In that, the internal combustion engine owns them. Total recycle.

As for what car companies do...I can remember the Corvair, the Pinto, the Vega and even the Edsel. They made them and they yanked them. They're not infallible. They're fickle little companies that vie for government contracts and want their noses in the trough first and last. I know as a consumer I have no need for an electric vehicle. I use mine to haul a 30' 3 horse slant w/ living quarters trailer...horse feed, animal feed, animals and travel with it. I don't need to "plug in" every hundred miles to get there. Not going to happen. As we get closer to "doomsday" watch these companies hedge their bets as the consumer doesn't need them or even want them.

The rub??? You and the current political party are hellbent on a scorched earth policy to get there. There's no need to rush. According to Manbearpig...we're already dead. According to AOC...maybe a bit over 8 years. While we race head first off the cliff other nations like China (which holds ALL the cards in the battery department!) won't begin to even do a thing to limit carbon emissions until 2060 and other stages are much later. There's nothing wrong with a continual phase in till its either made acceptable or they can perfect the technology. With China holding all the cards in that department...I'm betting its a very long time next to never. They want America gone. They want Capitalism dead. They want all of our resources and are salivating that we've capped them for them. For the taking. They want the moon too.

The world is switching over technologies to curb pollution.

What exactly is it you are scared of again?

“Them”?
RayR Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 6,467
"The world" ? Yer making chit up again Brew.
Did you miss the part about. "China (which holds ALL the cards in the battery department!) won't begin to even do a thing to limit carbon emissions until 2060 and other stages are much later"?.
Brewha Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
MACS wrote:
Here's the truth of it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6EiRDWUeXI

Damn MACS - you really will believe any god damn thing, won’t you?




Well I have an EV that costs me 20 cent on the dollar to gas and never need oil changes.
And it’s faster that your car - sight unseen.

Smoke that in you YouTube pipe.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 13,253
When you're alone in a room, you're the only person in the world who can see what you can
HockeyDad Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 44,265
Brewha wrote:
The world is switching over technologies to curb pollution.

What exactly is it you are scared of again?

“Them”?


And it is a multi trillion dollar gold mine guarded and enforced by government!
HockeyDad Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 44,265
Sunoverbeach wrote:
When you're alone in a room, you're the only person in the world who can see what you can


Were you stationed at Camp LeJeune between 1955 and 2014? Operators are standing by.
ZRX1200 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 58,023
Yeah MACS your a dumb doodoo head….

Brew got an EV and it’s great for him so it’s obviously the answer to the worlds problems. I’m sure it scales up without issue.
8trackdisco Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 57,604
Well, for a while I was heartened by an actual exchange of ideas, and questions for the other side. Then it slid down the pole quickly.

Guess I'll still try to see this as a positive, albeit a baby step.
frankj1 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 42,739
there will be batteries that don't depend on children digging the materials required out of the Earth.

And nuclear is popular here, for good reason, but how many more decades until we figure out how to dispose of the waste?

I guess the next energy of the world requires patience, not fear and attacks.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 13,253
While it's not zero, the nuclear waste concern isn't as large as many fear. The US currently generates about 2k metric tons of spent fuel annually. That's about half the size of an Olympic sized pool. The energy generated by that fuel is enough to power 70 million homes.

Compare that to about 400 million metric tons of carbon emissions, plus whatever solid waste that's created due to CCRs (coal combustion residuals).

Nuclear is a very feasible and comparatively clean power generation option

*specific numbers regurgitated from energy.org*
DrMaddVibe Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,916
Brewha wrote:
The world is switching over technologies to curb pollution.

What exactly is it you are scared of again?

“Them”?



Are they now. Industrialized nations only? Only the rich? Is that where this is going? When I see a band of marauders in an EV other than a Toyota Tacoma (you name the nation, because its their global pick of choice!) with a 50 cal bolted in the trunk I wouldn't get my expectations too high.

China um...is claiming a recession. Can you believe that? I wonder if they're calling it the Bidenflation?

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/inventory-glut-hell-wait-times-tesla-model-3-and-model-y-just-evaporated

China and Afghanistan...nothing ever to fear here...riight? I mean we can deal with the Taliban and all.

https://www.mining-technology.com/analysis/china-afghanistan-mineral-wealth/

Dirty little secrets that get swept under the rug...I guess by people that don't have that "insider information"?

https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/article/22026518/lithium-batteries-dirty-secret-manufacturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon-footprint

Its from 2018 even. What's drastically changed since then? Well...here's 2022...

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-much-co2-emitted-manufacturing-batteries

“If we don't change how we make materials, how we make chemicals, how we manufacture, everything will essentially stay the same,”

Think

Was it worth the unemployment, the crash of our economy, the money lost all to "stay the same"...essentially?

I guess when it rains it pours...yeah?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/environment-and-energy/tesla-backed-nickel-miner-cuts-output-after-leak-from-dam-1

Everyone always says "Do it for the kids"...I wonder if when they zip on down to Starbucks in their clean EV...if they ever think about the kids?

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/drc-mining-industry-child-labor-and-formalization-small-scale-mining

But hey, its for the environment so it's gotta be good.
Brewha Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 11,050
ZRX1200 wrote:
Yeah MACS your a dumb doodoo head….

Brew got an EV and it’s great for him so it’s obviously the answer to the worlds problems. I’m sure it scales up without issue.

Your envy is palpable.
ZRX1200 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 58,023
Yup. You got me.
ZRX1200 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 58,023
“Mitch is responsible for the red wave”

~Mittens
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