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Last post 8 years ago by mdalbert86. 74 replies replies.
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Where have all the QUALITY cigars gone?
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danmdevries Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Aug 19 2015, 3:59 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,314
I'll give credit to my local shpo in that regard. Their prices are high, but if you're a regular they treat you well. Before I started buying online id stop in for one or two, sometimes stay to smoke, sometimes not. Most of the time they'd round the total down to the nearest dollar, other times they'd give me a coffee or water. Sometimes they'd grab another cigar (usually just a slow mover they're getting rid of, but still) and toss it in the bag. They'll knock some money off full boxes and will do bulk discount like the time I spent $200 on 20 cigars for my son's birthday they took $25 off.

But I'm still overpaying by quite a bit. The good treatment kept me coming back though. I try to stop in occasionally but now that I'm not a regular, and not spending big money, no deals. I'm sure if I asked for bulk discount they'd work something out, but it still would be significantly more than online. If they got within 10-15%, I'd consider. But often it's more like 50%
gummy jones Offline
#52 Posted: Wed, Aug 19 2015, 5:19 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
It's hard for guys like me who no longer have any shops within a hour and fifteen minutes. When I joined this site I certainly expected the selection to be much better but what can you do. Still able to find some gems.
fishinguitarman Offline
#53 Posted: Wed, Aug 19 2015, 5:39 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
A few ....Tats Fuente and a few others...
Abrignac Offline
#54 Posted: Wed, Aug 19 2015, 7:33 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
robertsccr5 wrote:
I'm a reasonably intelligent individual, however, your concept confuses me.
You want the owner of the shpo who is barely breaking even to give you lower prices on 4 to 5 boxes per month? This does move inventory but he loses money on all boxes. Right??

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested in how this concept helps a B&M.


Actually, I think you missed something. Or perhaps I should have been more clear. I was interested in purchasing things not normally stocked. Not asking for a discount rate on current inventory. I wasn't buying these items from the shpo to begin with so it would have given the shpo the opportunity to increase overall sales at a rate that left room for profit, but at a lower markup.
z6joker9 Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 11:52 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
Abrignac wrote:
Actually, I think you missed something. Or perhaps I should have been more clear. I was interested in purchasing things not normally stocked. Not asking for a discount rate on current inventory. I wasn't buying these items from the shpo to begin with so it would have given the shpo the opportunity to increase overall sales at a rate that left room for profit, but at a lower markup.


Why not use that mentality at every place you shop? Go to a restaurant and tell them you'll buy a burger, but only at a 10% markup, not 50% markup. If they refuse to sell it at such a steep discount, threaten to go cook your own burger.

It's pretty simple- if word got out that shops were willing to drop their prices so steeply, they'd have to offer such discounts to lots of their existing customers or risk losing their business. This doesn't even count other factors, such as damaging a box, or the labor required to place the order, receive the order, add it to inventory, etc. 5 boxes a month at 10% markup would net them maybe $50, and if it's something they don't stock, they might have had to open an account, pay separate shipping, and/or meet minimum order numbers. I wouldn't bother with the trouble either.
99cobra2881 Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
z6joker9 wrote:
Why not use that mentality at every place you shop? Go to a restaurant and tell them you'll buy a burger, but only at a 10% markup, not 50% markup. If they refuse to sell it at such a steep discount, threaten to go cook your own burger.

It's pretty simple- if word got out that shops were willing to drop their prices so steeply, they'd have to offer such discounts to lots of their existing customers or risk losing their business. This doesn't even count other factors, such as damaging a box, or the labor required to place the order, receive the order, add it to inventory, etc. 5 boxes a month at 10% markup would net them maybe $50, and if it's something they don't stock, they might have had to open an account, pay separate shipping, and/or meet minimum order numbers. I wouldn't bother with the trouble either.



All very good points there as to reasons why my cigar money will be going to Switzerland until things change.
Abrignac Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 1:31 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
z6joker9 wrote:
Why not use that mentality at every place you shop? Go to a restaurant and tell them you'll buy a burger, but only at a 10% markup, not 50% markup. If they refuse to sell it at such a steep discount, threaten to go cook your own burger.

It's pretty simple- if word got out that shops were willing to drop their prices so steeply, they'd have to offer such discounts to lots of their existing customers or risk losing their business. This doesn't even count other factors, such as damaging a box, or the labor required to place the order, receive the order, add it to inventory, etc. 5 boxes a month at 10% markup would net them maybe $50, and if it's something they don't stock, they might have had to open an account, pay separate shipping, and/or meet minimum order numbers. I wouldn't bother with the trouble either.


Did you setup your pick'em group yet?

As far as the matter at hand, I don't think the restaurant analogy is apples to apples. To me, it was a win-win proposition. I wasn't trying to get a discount on existing stock. I was trying to give the shpo the opportunity to increase overall sales. At the same time I wanted to save a little money.

FWIW, the stuff I wanted to purchase was from the same lines already carried, but not stocked. For example, the shpo normally stocks one box of Fuente R44's. I was looking to purchase 2 unopened boxes. At the time, the retail price was around $7 per cigar. I was hoping to be able to purchase 2 boxes for about $6 per cigar, about a 15% discount. Considering they already offer a 10% discount on boxes, I don't think my offer would have left them in the red. Also, instead of having capital tied up in 2-4 months worth of inventory, I was willing to pay cash up front when the order was placed.

Their loss, not mine. In the end, I ended up spending that money elsewhere. Plus, they also lost me as a customer. I used to stop in an pick up a handful of cigars at least once a week. Haven't been there more than once or twice in the last year.

Also, from what I was told earlier, they weren't far from having enough volume to reach a pricing break from their supplier. A few of these purchases would have helped them reach that goal. C'est la vie!
z6joker9 Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 2:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
They'd be silly not to give you 15% off, especially if you're willing to pay up front and wait. Members at the nearby local get 15% off anytime, 20% during events.
Abrignac Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 3:45 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
z6joker9 wrote:
They'd be silly not to give you 15% off, especially if you're willing to pay up front and wait. Members at the nearby local get 15% off anytime, 20% during events.


My thoughts exactly. Which is why i don't shpo there anymore. I could see it if I was asking for a 50% reduction. I was just trying to get them to be competitive. Eighty or eight-five percent of something is better than 100% of nothing.
z6joker9 Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
If you still want at least 15% off a box of R44s let me know!
ZRX1200 Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 4:21 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
WTF.

Joker you working at a shpo now? Or is Nancy hooking you up?
TrishS@CigarBid Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-13-2001
Posts: 3,172
bgz wrote:
LOL, at $140. I would say the maximum they pay for the box is $90, but I think it's probably even less than that. My guess would be about $60 or $70 for a $180 box.

If the b&m is breaking even, it's because they refuse to get creative at moving their product.

They have to sell a lot of cigars every month to break even due to their overhead.

So IMO, they should be willing to deal with someone even if the profit isn't as high as it would be.

The way I see it, if the shpos had a group of buyers that buy in bulk, they would be able to qualify for better discounts from their vendors.



I'm not sure what cigars you're talking about bgz, but most of the cigars you elitists enjoy smoking don't have anywhere near this mark up! A lot of these same companies don't provide any seriously good prices to retailers/distributors. So I think this example is a bit out of line.
bgz Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 4:40 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
TrishS@CigarBid wrote:
I'm not sure what cigars you're talking about bgz, but most of the cigars you elitists enjoy smoking don't have anywhere near this mark up! A lot of these same companies don't provide any seriously good prices to retailers/distributors. So I think this example is a bit out of line.


It was just a guess based off other industries. I work in an field where I often get to see costs and pricing for arbitrary products across many different industries. It's not uncommon to see product prices doubled (or more) from cost to retail pricing.

If that's not the case for cigars, and I assume it must be true for at least some cigars.

Take the MB3s for instance (yes, I like MB3s, but sample picked because of the box price).

MSRP on a box of robustos according to the Mothership is $211.16 with a Mothership price of $179.99.

I often see deals throughout the net where you can land MB3s at $3.50 a stick, that would put a box price at $70 per box, where that would be a 1/3 of the MSRP in this case.

I can't imagine companies willing to sell them at a loss unless they were trying to clear floor space in a hurry or something, and even if that were the case, I would have to assume that they aren't losing much.

I understand this is just one case, and it might not be the same for all the "elitist smokes" that we enjoy smoking (hey, I smoke cheapies too!)
cvstrat Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 4:58 PM EST
Joined: 06-08-2015
Posts: 16
z6joker9 wrote:
Why not use that mentality at every place you shop? Go to a restaurant and tell them you'll buy a burger, but only at a 10% markup, not 50% markup. If they refuse to sell it at such a steep discount, threaten to go cook your own burger.

It's pretty simple- if word got out that shops were willing to drop their prices so steeply, they'd have to offer such discounts to lots of their existing customers or risk losing their business. This doesn't even count other factors, such as damaging a box, or the labor required to place the order, receive the order, add it to inventory, etc. 5 boxes a month at 10% markup would net them maybe $50, and if it's something they don't stock, they might have had to open an account, pay separate shipping, and/or meet minimum order numbers. I wouldn't bother with the trouble either.


That's not logical. Restaurants don't suffer competition from online retailers. Cooking your own food is nothing like buying one premade, and even at that each place is different. Cigars are all the same no matter where you buy them, so retailers are subject to competition from any and all vendors who sell the same product. B&M retailers should be very concerned about online sales, even in the face of MAP. I live in Georgia where there are very high cigar taxes, even if everything else remained constant it's always cheaper to buy from Florida.


Negotiating for the highest price a customer is willing to pay is the best way to maximize profits. It's absolutely true that they'd be better off taking a price cut for customers who ask, and selling at retail for those who don't. Grocery stores have been doing it for decades through coupons. There are coupon books at the entrance to most grocery stores, but people walk past them all the time and buy at full retail items that were in the coupon book. People who need to save money will stop, look at coupons, compare with other stores, and end up paying less. This is why most grocery stores will match competitors coupons - it's always worth making the sale, even at a break even price because it pulls people into your store where they may buy other items that are profitable, and perhaps most important prevents the competition from making a sale.

It's a concept called fist degree price discrimination. It isn't usually taught in undergrad econ classes, but it's one of the primary concepts of graduate econ, as it's fundamental to profit maximization which will be of interest to executive or entrepreneurial positions.
Abrignac Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 5:48 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
Yea, what he said.
youngra Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2015, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2011
Posts: 1,885
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Yeah, Santa Claus does all his shopping here during that time.

Everybody knows elves are too busy to roll cigars too!



Not in Colorado!!Beer Herfing Herfing Herfing They're always rolling!
chazbo Offline
#67 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2015, 6:59 PM EST
Joined: 01-21-2007
Posts: 8,160
Most higher end sticks seem to close near MSRP so why wouldn't they put up some new cigars. Even if someone grabs a good deal they get it out to the people to try and hopefully will buy more at MSRP.
99cobra2881 Offline
#68 Posted: Fri, Aug 21 2015, 7:43 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
I dunno but I do know I'd like to see some new brands on here too.



And to be honest the narrow selection here has lead me to look at other websites. Crazy how I thought I knew a lot about cigars but in reality I only know about the cigars that are sold here. I've never bought from another online retailer.

I like cbid but as cigars go away to map I'd like to see some new brands come to auction here

http://halfwheel.com/2015-new-cigars
Wunky Offline
#69 Posted: Sat, Nov 7 2015, 2:33 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2014
Posts: 105
Well if Rubio gets in you can say goodbye to Cuba.
chazbo Offline
#70 Posted: Sat, Nov 7 2015, 3:51 PM EST
Joined: 01-21-2007
Posts: 8,160
We want more selection pleaseHerfing
cigarlover22 Offline
#71 Posted: Sun, Nov 8 2015, 12:11 AM EST
Joined: 06-29-2015
Posts: 490
rrumba Offline
#72 Posted: Sun, Nov 8 2015, 1:05 AM EST
Joined: 12-28-2013
Posts: 1,093
cigarlover22 wrote:
http://www.cigarbid.com/auction/lot/2154467/tatuaje-pudgy-monster-sampler-box-10-cigars/

Are these worth buying?



subjective question but YES anyway
cigarlover22 Offline
#73 Posted: Sun, Nov 8 2015, 1:14 AM EST
Joined: 06-29-2015
Posts: 490
rrumba wrote:
subjective question but YES anyway


I figured they were. Thanks
mdalbert86 Offline
#74 Posted: Mon, Nov 9 2015, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 11-17-2013
Posts: 4
Wunky wrote:
Well if Rubio gets in you can say goodbye to Cuba.


Forget about Cuba for now. If (and when) the embargo goes away, Habanos prices will be through the roof due to the demand, you'll get taxed (depending on the state you buy in, you might be hit with a tobacco tax too. Plus, Cuba is already producing as many cigars as they can, which means two things. 1) To keep up with demand, Cuban companies will produce more sticks, but at an even worse quality than they are now. 2) They won't produce more, the prices will just skyrocket.

Our major concern right now needs to be the possibility of FDA regulation. Limited Releases will be gone and all producers will need to submit blends for FDA approval. There's also the specter of the arbitrary $10 minimum per stick. Mail order can be eliminated too. Depends on how the White House OMB decides to rule on the FDA findings.
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