America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 7 years ago by zitotczito. 20 replies replies.
Interesting Take on the new FDA Regs
midmofan Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 04-25-2014
Posts: 1,108
Spent the afternoon at the Outlaw Cigar Store and lounge in Kansas City. Great place to hang out if ever in the area. Despite the name (and the fact that they do have biker events there) its actually a pretty high-end place with a huge well organized humi-room. They have a lot of great events including Jorge Padron & Alec Bradly coming in.

In any case talked to the manager at length about the new FDA regs. He and the owner have been following it and he actually had a copy of the reg itself.

Here was his take: If the reg takes full effect half of the cigars in his store would be gone.

He noted that a lot of people are not that worked up yet because of the supposed 2 year period where cigars that came on the market between 2007 and 2016 can still be sold while they are being tested.

HOWEVER, it is the cigar maker that must pay for the testing. Nobody knows right now how much this will cost but the buzz is that it will be above $100,000 per brand/blend/band that came on the market during that time period. While the big guys can afford that, the smaller manufacturers, given the uncertainty of the testing (see next item) might decide its too much for them.

Nobody knows what the test will be all about. Apparently someone has developed a cigar smoking machine that will give some sort of result on what a cigar smoker takes in. Of course cigar smoking is wildly different than cigarettes. There are the different sizes and styles, lose wrapped, tight packed, people that inhale, those that retro-hale, those that do neither. In short nobody knows what these tests are going to show. More importantly, nobody knows what the standard is going to be. How do 2007-2016 (and future) cigars "pass" the test to be allowed to continue on the market? No way the FDA is going to say that "such and such is a safe level of nicotine absorption."

Cigars were NOT put in the same category as cigarettes such that, while cigarettes have basically the same "safety" issue, they are - in effect - exempt from a total ban even though they are considered dangerous. Cigars (and vape-stuff) are in a category that that could, theoretically, be banned totally if they came on the market after 2007.

Which leads to the last real zinger. Obviously the FDA would not accept a totally new cigar being "grandfathered" in as a pre-2007 stick simply by putting a label on it from a brand that was sold back then. So how, then, does the FDA handle the fact that the blend on EVERY cigar is going to be slightly different from year to year, crop to crop? Unlike cigarettes what are a more homogenized product, the actual contents of a cigar can be quite different from 2006 to 2016 even though the brand is still the same. This is sometimes blatant and intentional where a blend totally changes but the name stays the same, and sometimes -even with the best of brands - it is just a natural and unavoidable consequence of how cigars are made, much like wine that is different from year to year.

It is quite possible then, that, at some point, the FDA could try to say ALL cigars that don't have the EXACT same contents as they did pre 2007 would be subject to the "testing" (again, "testing" for what?????)

The last thing he said was something I had not heard before is that, starting in August, the rules on "flavor characterizing" that apply to cigarettes will also apply to cigars. Thus you could no longer advertise or tell people indirectly through the name or descriptions or pictures on the box that a cigar had, vanilla, cherry, coffee or any other flavoring. This obviously wipes out the infused market (no jokes here, this is serious!)

So what can you do? There is already legislation pending in the House that would exempt premium and hand rolled cigars from these regulations. The Senate has not done anything yet one way or the other apparently. Now is the time to call and email the government.
bgz Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
The foreign online shpos are going to be overjoyed with the influx of new customers!

Leave it to the government to screw up a good thing.

Idiots.
Buckwheat Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Having worked in an environmental/biological testing lab for over ten years; I'm a little skeptical of the $100,000 to test cigars. You can test anything for just about everything for about $1,000 to $5,000. I'd open up a lab of my own if they are paying $100,000 to test cigars.

Anyway, this legislation is stupid and off base. fog
midmofan Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 04-25-2014
Posts: 1,108
Looked up some things on the cost of testing. One article says this:

"For each product to go through the premarket approval process, the FDA estimates it will take about 1,700 hours of labor, costing companies at least $1 million per product tested."

another one, however, had this:

"Each application for approval, advocates estimate, will cost manufacturers upward of $1 million. The FDA estimates a more modest cost of several hundred thousand dollars."

In either case, pretty darn expensive.

Buckwheat Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
midmofan wrote:
Looked up some things on the cost of testing. One article says this:

"For each product to go through the premarket approval process, the FDA estimates it will take about 1,700 hours of labor, costing companies at least $1 million per product tested."

another one, however, had this:

"Each application for approval, advocates estimate, will cost manufacturers upward of $1 million. The FDA estimates a more modest cost of several hundred thousand dollars."

In either case, pretty darn expensive.



Sounds like another case of $100 hammers. I can see how the application could cost a ton but not the actual testing. I was involved with several industrial waste permits that took years to draw up and thousands to produce. If it does take a million to do the testing it will put a lot of cigar companies out of business. As I said; stupid FN legislation that will do little to nothing to stop the tobacco related sicknesses.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! HOW WILL THEY BE ABLE TO BUY AND SMOKE PREMIUM CIGARS? ram27bat
cacman Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
The guberment is going to do whatever it wants, regardless of how many operations and letters are sent. In the name of healthcare and the safety of our children, the guberment is trying to squash all tobacco use. The only freedom of choice you'll have is on what they decide you can choose from.
tamapatom Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
In addition to the above mentioned points, there are a few more........

No more free cigar samples.......you are allowed to fondle and smell them but don't dare smoke them.

Warning labels covering 30% of the package...that means box or cello for singles.......non-cell cigars sold singly would not need warning label.

The FDA says seasonal variation in crops for an existing brand will not constitute a new brand...unless there are changes in pH, Carbon monoxide or nicotine (inferring this is what they will be testing for.)

The cost of testing is not the biggest issue. Cigarettes have been under the same product review guidelines since 2007 and of all the applications for new brands, only one has been approved....and that's after being taken to court. Testing is a code work for "no new products".

The 2007-2015 brands that have to go through review, are no better of than new brands, other than the grace period for submitting. These will be banned too.

Pre-2007 will be all that is left but keep in mind now there will be no stopping excessive taxing on par with cigarettes.
Bur Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-31-2012
Posts: 5,638
And yet it gets easier and easier to smoke the Mary You Wanna every day. Guess if nic hits were better no one would care about the cancer.

Cancer sucks-lost a friend far to young to mouth/throat cancer (only one of us who didn't use tobacco) and best friend is dying of brain cancer, but we're adults and at least for now this is a legal product.

What a stupid over-reach and poorly veiled attempt to ruin non-cigarette tobacco industry. Cigarette taxes are too valuable to our tax and spend politicians in both mainstream parties to be outlawed-they are the death sticks. most legitimate actuarially sound mortality tables show non-cigarette smoking tobacco users living as long or longer on average than non-tobacco users controlling for other exposures.
tamapatom Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
We are the band playing as the Titanic sinks.
midmofan Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 04-25-2014
Posts: 1,108
As bad as it is, all hope is not lost. In April the House of Rep committee passed a bi-partisan exemption for premium cigars into the farm bill. A motion to take out that exemption later failed. Contact your Rep and also Senators to ask them to support this exemption when it comes before them.
tamapatom Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
midmofan wrote:
As bad as it is, all hope is not lost. In April the House of Rep committee passed a bi-partisan exemption for premium cigars into the farm bill. A motion to take out that exemption later failed. Contact your Rep and also Senators to ask them to support this exemption when it comes before them.

And how are they defining "premium" in this bill?
Buckwheat Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
tamapatom wrote:
And how are they defining "premium" in this bill?


Premium Cigar = The Largest PAC. fog
tamapatom Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
I guess Swisher's are gonna be premiums!
tamapatom Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
Whoa.....the FDA will be shaking in their boots with this proposed language in the farm bill..............

"The committee reminds FDA that premium cigars have unique characteristics and cost-prohibitive price points and are not marketed to kids. Any effort to regulate cigars should take these items into consideration."



midmofan Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 04-25-2014
Posts: 1,108
In most of the bills, Premium cigars are defined as having 100% tobacco with no filter, tip or non-tobacco mouthpiece and weighting at least six pounds per 1,000 cigars.

That is .096 oz per cigar. For reference a Padron 3000 weighs .6 oz.

Designed to take out the cigarettes with brown wrappers calling themselves cigars.

One of my favorites though was the old pre-hurricane Royal Jamaicans with the cedar tip...


Other bills or amendments floating around have made the exemption specific to "hand-rolled" cigars.
jjanecka Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
So when can we expect big brother to begin random search and seizures for the smokes we still have?
illinichaser Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2011
Posts: 5,772
all you hoarders are going to look like geniuses. . .
zitotczito Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
Well not that I saw this coming but the prices of decent cigars has been on the rise. Take into account these new rules and it makes clear that the prices will rise. I have been smoking a pipe much more lately and have cellared around 170 pounds in total with over 490 different blends. I am ready.
dharbolt Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-03-2013
Posts: 6,931
zitotczito wrote:
Well not that I saw this coming but the prices of decent cigars has been on the rise. Take into account these new rules and it makes clear that the prices will rise. I have been smoking a pipe much more lately and have cellared around 170 pounds in total with over 490 different blends. I am ready.



Holy crap. Didn't you just start that like a year ago lol
zitotczito Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
dharbolt, actually 08/2014. Heck you saw what I did with cigars, would you have expected anything less. LOL
Users browsing this topic
Guest