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Last post 7 years ago by gummy jones. 33 replies replies.
The ObamaCare endgame is coming into view
Burner02 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,861
The ObamaCare endgame is coming into view. In Colorado, where ObamaCare enrollees face 20 percent premium hikes, voters will decide Nov. 8 whether to create a new single payer healthcare system. Said to cost $25 billion, the new ColoradoCare would be funded by a 10 percent payroll tax plus various other levies. Keep in mind that state’s entire budget is just $27 billion.

Likewise, the president last week said the antidote to the loss of major private insurers from ObamaCare is the creation of a government-backed insurer to provide competition on exchanges that have none. Who knows how much that would cost or if it could even be successful? I guess he’s hoping the American people failed to notice that $330 billion in taxpayer dollars has already been spent on Obamacare, with lackluster results.

In the same speech made in Miami, the president said we should regard ObamaCare as “a starter home. “It’s a lot better than not having a home,” he said. “But over time, you hope you can make improvements.”

But healthcare isn’t a starter home. Whether ObamaCare or more broadly, the nation’s health care system more broadly, operates efficiently and well is important. Millions of lives hang in the balance. As one of those people relying on the nation’s healthcare system to deliver recovery from a life threatening disease, each tweak, each change in the nation’s healthcare policy sends shivers down my spine. Will access to my doctor be limited? Will my costs rise? Will I be forced to pay more? And, what happens if the disease recurs?

You may wonder why I care about ObamaCare since I get my coverage from a private employer. But the truth is that the Affordable Care Act’s influence doesn’t just exist inside the gates of that program. Massive mergers have changed the way physicians do business all over the country. Nurses spend unconscionable hours filling out online forms. Premiums and deductibles aren’t just on the rise for Obamacare enrollees, but for everyone. The law changed the entire healthcare industry. There is no way to back out smoothly and return to a system that clearly worked better.

That ObamaCare is slowly coming apart at the seams is no secret. In Florida, where the president was making his comments, the number of insurers has winnowed from 18 to a slim five options. Deductibles for Obamacare are up 23 percent.

Across the country, the situation is much the same. Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton, a Democrat, was an early and ardent supporter of ObamaCare. But even he was forced to admit that the program is no longer affordable. Premiums in that state are set to rise 50 to 67 percent for 2017 ObamaCare coverage.

Twenty percent of potential Obamacare enrollees across the country will face a single option as they attempt to sign up for the president’s healthcare scheme, which the left still refers to as a “marketplace.” It’s not. Yet, it’s a fair bet that the IRS will still force people without coverage to pay the individual mandate tax even though so many of them will be denied choices that fit their particular situation.

The nation’s largest and most deep-pocketed insurers, United Healthcare, Aetna and Humana, didn’t drop out of the exchanges because they weren’t making enough money on ObamaCare. They dropped out because they were losing money on ObamaCare. Hundreds of millions of dollars. We’ve always known that the ACA wasn’t an elegant piece of legislation. As Nancy Pelosi famously said, we’ll know what’s in it when we read it, but now it’s clear that the ACA is simply unworkable.

While the ObamaCare political football gets batted back and forth between Republicans and Democrats, millions of Americans are praying that they don’t get hurt in the process. And, they don’t want a starter home. They want top notch health care that they can choose


DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Those Bassards..!! Mad
Burner02 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,861
Is this a good time for "Thank you Obama"?
Gene363 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
Burner02 wrote:
Is this a good time for "F**K you Obama"?


Fixed it for you.
danmdevries Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,124
They stuck their fingers too deep into us and F'd up the healthcare system.
sd72 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
I hate when they put their fingers in me. Yuck.
Mr. Jones Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
Health Insurance was NEVER A WINNING BUSINESS
PROPSITION since DAY ONE....
WITHOUT EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS
IT DOES NOT COMPUTE.
tonygraz Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
35-40 years ago health insurance was cheap enough so that most employers could afford to provide it for their workers. Not so since then, and now it is way too expensive for many employers to provide. The insurance companies have grown and prospered and it's time to go to a single payer system and make them obsolete.
banderl Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
tonygraz wrote:
35-40 years ago health insurance was cheap enough so that most employers could afford to provide it for their workers. Not so since then, and now it is way too expensive for many employers to provide. The insurance companies have grown and prospered and it's time to go to a single payer system and make them obsolete.



When I got married 36 years ago, both the wife and I had free insurance provided by our employers. That lasted for at least ten years. Since then the rates and our costs have gone up every year. Now she gets our insurance from her employer, it costs them 20k and costs her over 8k per year.
jjanecka Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
And you still gotta pay taxes. I'm at the point where I feel like it should be no representation at the federal level unless you're being federally taxed. Something has got to give.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
jjanecka wrote:
And you still gotta pay taxes. I'm at the point where I feel like it should be no representation at the federal level unless you're being federally taxed. Something has got to give.



If you like your wars you can keep your wars.
gummy jones Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
"coming into view"

lol

it has been clear as day even before we had to "pass it to see what was in it"
gummy jones Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
DrMaddVibe wrote:
If you like your wars you can keep your wars.


only if you promise we can half fight made up wars that cant be won

ie war on poverty, war on bigotry, war on terrorism, war on women, etc
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ya.... I tried to tell you guys... Mellow
JohnA Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2014
Posts: 6
Copay for my family
2015. $20
2016 $55
2017 $85
2018 Sorry...would you like to buy a casket.
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Most legislation is a starter home that is tweaked and fixed along the way. This one was so contentious it was never fixed or tweaked. It's a product of the **** way it was forced through and the party of no.

It is odd anyone would WANT it to fail though. Politics has become such a game that it's party over country. After all while a failure of this magnitude or the magnitude of Iraq or whatever may be awful for the country, it's good for my party.

Both parties do it and it's sad.
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
tonygraz wrote:
35-40 years ago health insurance was cheap enough so that most employers could afford to provide it for their workers. Not so since then, and now it is way too expensive for many employers to provide. The insurance companies have grown and prospered and it's time to go to a single payer system and make them obsolete.


Yeah.
Government regulation made the private companies too expensive, so now it's time the government took FULL control of the industry.
Thank you sir, may I have another!

You truly want you mother government from cradle to grave, don't you?








Brewha Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
Yes, yes - and the running right wing answer is that if we deregulate health care it will become affordable to all.
Or at least to those who deserve it......
ZRX1200 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
Because killing the middle class with wealth redistribution is so honorable.

Gene363 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
Insurance (Someone else is really paying the bill) = higher costs for care.

Cutting the cost of healthcare requires:

Healthier living

Fewer lawsuits for malpractice*

Sunshine laws for insurance companies, especially malpractice insurance, i.e., how much do you really pay out in claims.

Prevent the use of emergency services for routine medical care

Competition


* (Note for you government/Single payer fans, there will be no suing the government, no matter how bad they treat you or don't treat you at all.)
tailgater Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
Yes, yes - and the running right wing answer is that if we deregulate health care it will become affordable to all.
Or at least to those who deserve it......


Prior to obamacare, there was talk of "fixing" the healthcare system.
Most conservatives agreed that fixing was not akin to complete deregulation. There WAS a middle ground.
But the democrats "won" and Obamacare became the fix. And since this is an even bigger abomination than anything predicted we now hear the liberals crying to "fix" it with single payer.

At least tonygraz is honest in his naive viewpoints.
You're hiding behind false narrative.
Gene363 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
To the fans of government run medical care, why do you hate the Canadians so much you want them to die?
ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
Because of Brian Adams.
dstieger Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Gene's on the right track. I'm totally amazed that there is never any noise made for transparency in care costs. When is the last time that you received a medical bill/statement/paper something that made even the slightest bit of sense? The providers like it that way. The insurance companies like it that way. And the insured are the ones who take it up the ass. Until we are allowed to understand what we're paying for and who is getting paid, there is not even a shred of opportunity for competition, cost comparisons, etc. The cost of identical procedures can vary by huge multiples depending on absolutely nothing. Bend over, please.

Another thing that we're going to have to face, but nobody will talk sensibly about is return on investment. I know its impossible to get around emotions and putting a cost on 'life' or longevity is something we're not going to be doing any time soon. However, we spend a BUTT TON of money at end of life with little regard for quality of life. I want there to be the possibility of a discussion like: "Its going to cost $700K to keep you kicking for probably only another three weeks. What if we make you comfortable for the next 5 or 6 days and give your heirs/family $500K?".....sheeeeetttt...I'll take that offer....I think...ask me again in a few years....probably, I'll still take it maybe
Gene363 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
dstieger wrote:
Gene's on the right track. I'm totally amazed that there is never any noise made for transparency in care costs. When is the last time that you received a medical bill/statement/paper something that made even the slightest bit of sense? The providers like it that way. The insurance companies like it that way. And the insured are the ones who take it up the ass. Until we are allowed to understand what we're paying for and who is getting paid, there is not even a shred of opportunity for competition, cost comparisons, etc. The cost of identical procedures can vary by huge multiples depending on absolutely nothing. Bend over, please.

Another thing that we're going to have to face, but nobody will talk sensibly about is return on investment. I know its impossible to get around emotions and putting a cost on 'life' or longevity is something we're not going to be doing any time soon. However, we spend a BUTT TON of money at end of life with little regard for quality of life. I want there to be the possibility of a discussion like: "Its going to cost $700K to keep you kicking for probably only another three weeks. What if we make you comfortable for the next 5 or 6 days and give your heirs/family $500K?".....sheeeeetttt...I'll take that offer....I think...ask me again in a few years....probably, I'll still take it maybe


True

Actually, it is happening already in California.* Since they have legalized suicide an insurance company refused to cover chemo for a terminally ill Mother but did offer to cover assisted suicide. This decision and others like it will be decided by so called "death panels" in the future, sanctioned by insurance companies or the government.

I don't condone suicide, but it is crazy as hell to spend endlessly when there is no hope of recovery. Living wills should be mandatory and if you wish every single last thing to be done to preserve your dying body you should have to pay more than those of us that recognize reality and prefer to let nature take it's course.


*See:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/10/insurers-use-californias-assisted-suicide-law-to-deny-treatment-for-terminal-patients/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/20/assisted-suicide-law-prompts-insurance-company-den/

http://nypost.com/2016/10/24/terminally-ill-mom-denied-treatment-coverage-but-gets-suicide-drugs-approved/
Gene363 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
One thing everyone should always recognize: If you want to have choices, you need to pay your own way. If you expect the government, AKA Taxpayers to foot the bill, you will also have to accept their terms for care, including the way you live your life as well as what you eat.

This is true regardless of your political persuasion.
dstieger Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Gene363 wrote:
Actually, it is happening already in California.* Since they have legalized suicide an insurance company refused to cover chemo for a terminally ill Mother but did offer to cover assisted suicide.


The generosity is astounding. What's a .22 round cost? Less than a dime?
Gene363 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
dstieger wrote:
The generosity is astounding. What's a .22 round cost? Less than a dime?


But I'll bet they exclude coverage for cleanup.

It's also a California win win, another violent gun death.
Just Relax Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
dstieger wrote:
Gene's on the right track. I'm totally amazed that there is never any noise made for transparency in care costs. When is the last time that you received a medical bill/statement/paper something that made even the slightest bit of sense? The providers like it that way. The insurance companies like it that way. And the insured are the ones who take it up the ass. Until we are allowed to understand what we're paying for and who is getting paid, there is not even a shred of opportunity for competition, cost comparisons, etc. The cost of identical procedures can vary by huge multiples depending on absolutely nothing. Bend over, please.

Another thing that we're going to have to face, but nobody will talk sensibly about is return on investment. I know its impossible to get around emotions and putting a cost on 'life' or longevity is something we're not going to be doing any time soon. However, we spend a BUTT TON of money at end of life with little regard for quality of life. I want there to be the possibility of a discussion like: "Its going to cost $700K to keep you kicking for probably only another three weeks. What if we make you comfortable for the next 5 or 6 days and give your heirs/family $500K?".....sheeeeetttt...I'll take that offer....I think...ask me again in a few years....probably, I'll still take it maybe



It's crazy how I agree with most everything you post. I think one of my first posts was agreeing with your post. Even share first names...

Ok done with the creepy comment, back to regularly scheduled programming.
teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Your first name is deke?
Just Relax Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
teedubbya wrote:
Your first name is deke?


It is not. Dave on his profile page must be an alias then.
tailgater Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
captain literal.

gummy jones Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd-slJc-GY
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