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Last post 7 years ago by tailgater. 48 replies replies.
Hampshire College In Amherst Stops Flying All Flags
cacman Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
AMHERST (CBS) — It’s been a week of flag-related controversy for Hampshire College, after the school’s Board of Trustees made the decision to lower the U.S. flag on campus to half-staff in the wake of the presidential election–and then decided to remove the flag entirely after a wave of backlash.

Hampshire College President Jonathan Lash told WBZ NewsRadio 1030’s Ben Parker he knows it’s a controversial decision to remove the flag, but he wanted to create a dialogue among those with differing opinions about the symbol.

“There were a range of views on campus, including people whose experience growing up have made the flag a symbol of fear, which was strengthened by the toxic language during the campaign, and people for whom the flag is the symbol of all that’s best throughout the country,” said Lash.

"No easy way to approach this" (removal of #Americanflag). @hampshirecolg president is trying to assure all voices get heard on campus. #wbz

He said the trouble started with a gesture meant to help provoke “meaningful and respectful dialogue” on campus–a stance he outlined in a post on the college’s Facebook page. In that post, he said the Board of Trustees decided to fly the flag at half-staff due to the “environment of escalating hate-based violence” in the wake of the election.

Lash said the gesture was also meant to be an “expression of grief” over deaths around the world, including those of U.S. service members. Unfortunately, the move didn’t work as planned, and many–especially veterans and families of veterans in the Hampshire College family–saw it as being disrespectful of the tradition of expressing mourning on a national level.

“Frankly, doing that, it didn’t help,” he said. “Flying the flag at half-mast just created more controversy.”

President of @hampshirecolg says they were "struggling" to find a way to open dialogue and the flag had become a "heated symbol" #wbz

On Veteran’s Day, someone removed the flag–and burned it.

“In the middle of the night, we have no idea who did it or even why,” said Lash.

So that’s why they decided to take down the U.S. flag–and all flags–on campus.

“The flag had become a heated symbol that was making that more difficult,” Lash said. “We really feel our community needs a conversation in which both sides listen to each other, and we wish the nation would have that kind of dialogue. We felt that if we could stop arguing about the symbol, we could get to the underlying issues.”Of course, that decision has created even more backlash, and Lash said there “certainly is” a lot of anger about the decision.

The plan now that the flag is down is for group discussions with faculty, staff, and students about the issues, but there is no timeline for when the flag might fly again.

“We intend to go forward with that, and then reconsider how we fly the flag going forward,” Lash said.

Lash outlined the school’s previous policy for lowering the flag, and why the decision to lower it is sometimes difficult.

“When President Obama ordered national flags at half-staff to recognize the victims in Paris, something we completely agreed with, there were a number of people on campus that said ‘Yes, but, what about the hundreds of people being killed by terror in Syria and Lebanon and Pakistan?’ and asked that the school find some way to recognize victims globally,” said Lash. “So we periodically lowered the flag to recognize victims of violence.”

He said the school will focus on completing those group conversations before putting the flag back up.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/11/22/hampshire-college-amherst-stops-flying-flags/



Whaaa! A bunch of college kids looking for their "safe" space. If you consider the American Flag a symbol of fear, the you should get the f*ck out of our Country or quit breaking immigration laws.
tailgater Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
It's stories like this that perpetuate the belief that liberalism is anti-American.

DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
fly the flag.. if someone takes it down arrest their ass.. it's not their flag to remove... Not talking


and there's only one reason to fly a flag at half mast... stop making chit up... Not talking
Brewha Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
tailgater wrote:
It's stories like this that perpetuate the belief that liberalism is anti-American.


And that conservatism is artificial intelligence .....
Stinkdyr Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
They should just fly rainbow flags.


Beer
DrafterX Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Stinkdyr wrote:
They should just fly rainbow flags in Canada.


Beer




ThumpUp
jjanecka Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
"Walking on the fightin side of me, runnin down the way of life our fightin men have fought and died to keep..."
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
And that conservatism is artificial intelligence .....


No.
Those are completely different stories.

teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Just pull all federal funding (if any) from hampshire college then stop reporting on anything the irrelevant place does.

defcon 0

WGAF about their stupidity
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I'd be ok with that... Mellow
jjanecka Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
If republicans weren't busy being so industrious and working all the time not allowing the government to think and decide for us maybe we'd protest all the time too.
banderl Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
teedubbya wrote:
Just pull all federal funding (if any) from hampshire college then stop reporting on anything the irrelevant place does.

defcon 0

WGAF about their stupidity



Is flying the flag a part of their federal funding agreement?

I agree about stopping the reporting on this nonsense.
DrafterX Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
well, they should act stupid at home then... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
DrafterX wrote:
well, they should act stupid at home then... Mellow

Yeah, this freedom of speach stuff is getting out of hand. This is exactly the kind of stuff that Putin throws people in jail for.

I'm sure he'll tell Don....
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
They can do what they want of course.. to a limit under the laws and stuff. .. but if they don't want to get talked about do it home... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If receiving federal funds, proper treatment of th,e flag should be required. If it's not let's make it so. Don't want to fly it or want to fly at half mast when your person loses an election? Go ahead. Just give up your funding. Nothing is free.
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
True. .. true. .. Mellow
Brewha Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
teedubbya wrote:
If receiving federal funds, proper treatment of th,e flag should be required. If it's not let's make it so. Don't want to fly it or want to fly at half mast when your person loses an election? Go ahead. Just give up your funding. Nothing is free.

Horse hocky.

Now all institutions that get federal funding are required to display the Flag????

You guy are going commie - big time.
DrafterX Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Well, there is this thing called respect and It is a teaching place. .. Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
What a group of students do is one thing. .. but when an institution decides to defy federal laws we're looking at something completely different. .. Mellow
cacman Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
If you find the Flag of the Country you're in to be a symbol of fear, maybe you shouldn't be in that Country. PERIOD.
TMCTLT Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
cacman wrote:
If you find the Flag of the Country you're in to be a symbol of fear, maybe you shouldn't be in that Country. PERIOD.



+10000000000000000000000000000000000
teedubbya Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Commie? No relevance whatsoever.

Free to accept federal funds or not. As a college or university the expectation to fly the flag with pride isn't a big deal.

When I worked for a managed care organization a health care provider could contract or take our money or not. If they did there were requirements. One of which was to place some signage at the door and other places. They could refuse and we wouldn't pay.

Something for nothing and just the expectation of a golden egg is commie.

teedubbya Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
By the way there is often strings attached with federal funds. This would be one of the least intrusive. It could be limited to institutions of higher learning if we choose. We are paying to educate our kids and expect a minimum standard just like curriculum.

They have a federal flag. They are being disrespectful with it as an institution. Let's pull their federal funds. If we can't legally let's learn from that and set it up for next time.

Click it or ticket. The libs do this all the time. I hear it's the new black.
Stinkdyr Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
teedubbya wrote:
........

defcon 0

........



LOL perfect!

Applause
Stinkdyr Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
Brewha wrote:
Horse hocky.

Now all institutions that get federal funding are required to display the Flag????

You guy are going commie - big time.



Let's defund all institutions like this.
Then freedom of speech can be freer.

Beer
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Dr. Everett Piper, President

Oklahoma Wesleyan University

This past week, I actually had a student come forward after a university chapel service and complain because he felt “victimized” by a sermon on the topic of 1 Corinthians 13. It appears this young scholar felt offended because a homily on love made him feel bad for not showing love. In his mind, the speaker was wrong for making him, and his peers, feel uncomfortable.

I’m not making this up. Our culture has actually taught our kids to be this self-absorbed and narcissistic. Any time their feelings are hurt, they are the victims. Anyone who dares challenge them and, thus, makes them “feel bad” about themselves, is a “hater,” a “bigot,” an “oppressor,” and a “victimizer.”

I have a message for this young man and all others who care to listen. That feeling of discomfort you have after listening to a sermon is called a conscience. An altar call is supposed to make you feel bad. It is supposed to make you feel guilty. The goal of many a good sermon is to get you to confess your sins—not coddle you in your selfishness. The primary objective of the Church and the Christian faith is your confession, not your self-actualization.

So here’s my advice:

If you want the chaplain to tell you you’re a victim rather than tell you that you need virtue, this may not be the university you’re looking for. If you want to complain about a sermon that makes you feel less than loving for not showing love, this might be the wrong place.

If you’re more interested in playing the “hater” card than you are in confessing your own hate; if you want to arrogantly lecture, rather than humbly learn; if you don’t want to feel guilt in your soul when you are guilty of sin; if you want to be enabled rather than confronted, there are many universities across the land (in Missouri and elsewhere) that will give you exactly what you want, but Oklahoma Wesleyan isn’t one of them.

At OKWU, we teach you to be selfless rather than self-centered. We are more interested in you practicing personal forgiveness than political revenge. We want you to model interpersonal reconciliation rather than foment personal conflict. We believe the content of your character is more important than the color of your skin. We don’t believe that you have been victimized every time you feel guilty and we don’t issue “trigger warnings” before altar calls.

Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn: to learn that life isn’t about you, but about others; that the bad feeling you have while listening to a sermon is called guilt; that the way to address it is to repent of everything that’s wrong with you rather than blame others for everything that’s wrong with them. This is a place where you will quickly learn that you need to grow up.

This is not a day care. This is a university.





Applause Applause
TMCTLT Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733


LIKE Applause
tailgater Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I do love me some Dr. Piper.

victor809 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Sounds like that delicate little flower is a Republican. You guys should toughen them up or they aren't going to survive in the real world.
DrafterX Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
true... true... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
On the OP, unless federal funding is written as contingent on display of the flag I see no reason why the two are related. If the government wants to start making it contingent going forward, that is always an option.

More importantly, since when is not flying a flag considered "disrespectful " to the flag? I'm not wearing a flag pin today... oh no. I see individuals flying the flag upside-down throughout Obama presidency, in fact I'm sure some pictures were posted here of such and while I know the difference between individual rights and an institution, if an action is disrespectful for one it is for all (one just has more freedom to be disrespectful)... no one made a single comment about that here.

This is a big WGAF. Write a story when they have school organized burnings, that's a story.
DrafterX Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
just a symptom of a larger problem... Mellow
banderl Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
victor809 wrote:
On the OP, unless federal funding is written as contingent on display of the flag I see no reason why the two are related. If the government wants to start making it contingent going forward, that is always an option.

More importantly, since when is not flying a flag considered "disrespectful " to the flag? I'm not wearing a flag pin today... oh no. I see individuals flying the flag upside-down throughout Obama presidency, in fact I'm sure some pictures were posted here of such and while I know the difference between individual rights and an institution, if an action is disrespectful for one it is for all (one just has more freedom to be disrespectful)... no one made a single comment about that here.

This is a big WGAF. Write a story when they have school organized burnings, that's a story.



The whole story is ridiculous.
If they don't want to fly the flag, who cares.
Doesn't affect my life one way or another.

Maybe they should fly it upside down.
Seems like that is accepted by our RWNJ friends.

http://www.infowars.com/fly-your-flags-upside-down/
rfenst Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
Unreal. I can see an individual protesting this way, but not an institution.
banderl Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Another right wing site trying to profit by improperly displaying the flag:
http://www.politifake.org/america-under-distress-battaile-politics-24770.html
Brewha Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
DrafterX wrote:
just a symptom of a larger problem... Mellow

You mean the comming conservative sensorship and move towards a theocracy? Huh
Brewha Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
teedubbya wrote:
Commie? No relevance whatsoever.

Free to accept federal funds or not. As a college or university the expectation to fly the flag with pride isn't a big deal.

When I worked for a managed care organization a health care provider could contract or take our money or not. If they did there were requirements. One of which was to place some signage at the door and other places. They could refuse and we wouldn't pay.

Something for nothing and just the expectation of a golden egg is commie.


My bad - I thought the suggestion on the table was to require collages to fly the flag is they accepted funding. THAT would be kinda communist. I mean we all share the benefits of freedom - what should anyone have to display a flag?

It would be like telling retired folks that if they want their social security, well - go buy a flag....
TMCTLT Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Brewha wrote:
My bad - I thought the suggestion on the table was to require collages to fly the flag is they accepted funding. THAT would be kinda communist. I mean we all share the benefits of freedom - what should anyone have to display a flag?

It would be like telling retired folks that if they want their social security, well - go buy a flag....




True enough.....BUT we do NOT all enjoy free tax dollars. Shame on you
Brewha Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
TMCTLT wrote:
True enough.....BUT we do NOT all enjoy free tax dollars. Shame on you

So with both want to be 1%'ers.....
TMCTLT Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Brewha wrote:
So with both want to be 1%'ers.....




Dude...I'd settle for top 20% :)
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Brewha, are you still spreading fear..?? Mellow
Brewha Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
DrafterX wrote:
Brewha, are you still spreading fear..?? Mellow

I would never do that.

But we all need to be safe when the pterodactyls attack.......
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I guess I don't draw the similarities you do to people receiving social security and an institution receiving federal funds.

I think it is closer to States accepting federal funds and having to say...... have an acceptable drinking age, seat belt laws, core required medicaid services with no limitation whatsoever on numbers of eligibles, core curriculum for elementary and high schools, and any number of other strings liberals often attach for the social good. You can ague merit of the strings, and remove them if you chose, but the concept is pretty well established.

Although it is admittedly still not completely apples to apples, it is closer than to individuals getting social security loosely based on their previous contributions.
Mr. Jones Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
Amherst is
A
JOKE
DEGREE...

EMPLOYERS
LAUGH
WHEN THEY SEE IT.
Brewha Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
teedubbya wrote:
I guess I don't draw the similarities you do to people receiving social security and an institution receiving federal funds.

I think it is closer to States accepting federal funds and having to say...... have an acceptable drinking age, seat belt laws, core required medicaid services with no limitation whatsoever on numbers of eligibles, core curriculum for elementary and high schools, and any number of other strings liberals often attach for the social good. You can ague merit of the strings, and remove them if you chose, but the concept is pretty well established.

Although it is admittedly still not completely apples to apples, it is closer than to individuals getting social security loosely based on their previous contributions.

In fairness, a school should be teaching unity and support of the government. Even the most crazy azzhat liberals should support that. So flying the flag at half mast was bad form.

But I am aware of how easy it is to damage our freedom of speech because of those who would push an unpopular view. So while I don't think a school should refuse to fly our flag, or people burn one, it is a dangerious thing to relish the idea of controlling the expressions.

Me, I think freedom ends when you cannot reasonably speak your mind - especially in disent.
teedubbya Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If the government prohibits or punishes you. Not rewards or the similar. They could do whatever they like with the flag sans federal funding. No freedom of speech issue. Freedom of speech do s not equal freedom from repercussion or the cart man whatever whatever I'll do what I want theory.
tailgater Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
So the school says that some see the flag as representing certain "fears", while others see it as representing truth, justice and the American way (or something like that).
And their reaction is to then remove the flag?
That's a reasonable response?
You want discussion on the topic, then discuss it. Don't remove the symbol because some are afraid.
I don't care who you are. Left, right or sane, this is the wrong response.
The true motive is a bigger deal than the act itself.
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