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MACS Offline
#51 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 9:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
Welfare never got anyone out of poverty. But it has kept millions of people IN it.
frankj1 Offline
#52 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 9:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
Let me ask you this, Frankie...

IF... IF American society is so bad at 'holding minorities back' or 'down' or whatever... why is it that immigrants can come here and not just get by, but THRIVE... Be exceptionally successful?

1. Because they SEE the opportunity.
2. Because they take advantage of it.
3. Because they work hard.
4. Because they appreciate the opportunity we actually do have here.
5. Because their countries don't have welfare, so they are not used to ANY help. They MUST do for themselves. And they do.

All cultures and countries, too.

Meanwhile... our poor want more and more taxpayer funded freebies.

As I said, I lived in Greece. I lived in the Philippines. I've visited wealthy countries and 3rd world countries. Ours is unparalleled in its opportunity, if one is willing (and possibly made) to work for it. No matter what color your skin is, or what God you do or do not believe in.

actually, I believe we are not so bad, we are the leaders, what all others should aspire to be.

But I also believe we should not be satisfied until all feel free...whether popular or not.
MACS Offline
#53 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 9:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
Key word there, Frank. FEEL.

They ARE free. If they don't FEEL free, that's on them. Nothing in this country holds them back or keeps them from 'freedom'. The reality is they are free. Their perception needs to change, not us.

Many liberal thinkers are more worried about feelings than they are results and reality.
MACS Offline
#54 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 9:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
frankj1 wrote:
and don't forget Corporate Welfare


Totally against that, too, my brother. Completely.

I figured my stance on less gov't, less taxes covered that. I'm in a union, simply because they force it on me... not sure how legal that is, but they do it. And I despise it.
frankj1 Offline
#55 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 9:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
Key word there, Frank. FEEL.

They ARE free. If they don't FEEL free, that's on them. Nothing in this country holds them back or keeps them from 'freedom'. The reality is they are free. Their perception needs to change, not us.

Many liberal thinkers are more worried about feelings than they are results and reality.

yeah, I know. But stuff like don't ask, don't tell...my people said **** that, we are not ashamed.
Everyone needs to "feel" that powerful too. But some groups are told be free, but we don't want to see you. How does one do that, be free and invisible?

You assume freedom, and you are entitled to it, not all do. Two generations before me understood and made sure I'd never forget what they had to overcome. So I am sympathetic to the struggles of those that are not commonly accepted...even those I have difficulty understanding.
frankj1 Offline
#56 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 9:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
Totally against that, too, my brother. Completely.

I figured my stance on less gov't, less taxes covered that. I'm in a union, simply because they force it on me... not sure how legal that is, but they do it. And I despise it.

you were quicker than my delete!
MACS Offline
#57 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 10:21 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
Hey Victor... serious question for you.

Can you have adversarial discourse without being condescending? I'll try if you will.

Frankie tripod and I have shown it can be done. BigGrin
frankj1 Offline
#58 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 10:24 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
yeah, true about us. but we were also making out on PM's...you phag
MACS Offline
#59 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 10:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
frankj1 wrote:
yeah, true about us. but we were also making out on PM's...you phag


Dude! WTF! He's gonna expect a wet kiss, now.
frankj1 Offline
#60 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 10:47 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
might be worth it. He has a calf.
MACS Offline
#61 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 10:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
frankj1 wrote:
might be worth it. He has a calf.


8track has the calf. Try to keep up, Frank.
frankj1 Offline
#62 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 11:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
8track has the calf. Try to keep up, Frank.

where did I go wrong?
MACS Offline
#63 Posted: Fri, Jun 9 2017, 11:47 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
frankj1 wrote:
where did I go wrong?


I was talking to Victor, here... 8track back on the general discussion. You cross threaded! Cross forumed-ed-ed, too.
victor809 Offline
#64 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 12:57 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS wrote:
Hey Victor... serious question for you.

Can you have adversarial discourse without being condescending? I'll try if you will.

Frankie tripod and I have shown it can be done. BigGrin



Been there done that, got the t-shirt.
If you bother looking at my old posts from when I first joined you'd see I attempted to sway people as best I could. I used logic, supporting facts, I tried to be understanding of their point of view.

What did it get me? nothing but acrimonious and idiotic responses. At best I would get the equivalent of "well that's just your opinion".... (side note, I was speaking with my step-aunt after years of not seeing her, funerals gathering family and all that crap, and I mentioned that trump doesn't speak in complete sentences... her response was "well that's your opinion." As if complete sentences is a matter of opinion....)

I'm done with that now. I've been done with it ever since Jpotts tried to back up rugrunner's complete inability to understand how an average works when providing statistics. Why should I bother spending effort trying to change someone's mind when they are unwilling to even agree with me about a mathematical concept.

So I'm not trying to have a "adversarial discourse without being condescending". I'm simply amusing myself pointing out things I find to be stupid. You know, like someone saying "they should just move to a different state if they don't like that they don't have the same rights others do in that state"... then in the next breath talking about how they can't currently leave the state they want to leave and how it's so hard because there's taxes....

Or the idea that someone is willing to purposely make life hard for a group of people... not because they think that group of people will do something wrong.... but because they're afraid straight pedophiles will pretend to be part of that group so they can leer at little girls....

Or the idea that you're an "alpha male"....
TMCTLT Offline
#65 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 3:41 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
delta1 wrote:
Here's an article about the Rose Parade, typical of most American New Years Day parades, and how tightly their standards for "acceptable displays and performers" were historically enforced. They stirred up a firestorm when they let a gay male couple on a float into the parade...before that, only heterosexual couples were allowed...



I'm good with that, if....IF they had a special talent " other than being homosexual " great let them take part....if it's just a hey look @ us queers...that's another conversation all together.

Were these hetero couples there only as a " display of heterosexuality " or did they actually lend some TALENT to the parade?
tailgater Offline
#66 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 7:42 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


Or the idea that someone is willing to purposely make life hard for a group of people... not because they think that group of people will do something wrong.... but because they're afraid straight pedophiles will pretend to be part of that group so they can leer at little girls....

.


Classic.

A group demands changes to current laws. They demand access to places that have forever been assigned by biological measures.
But when some oppose their demands they now get accused of "purposely making life hard" for that group?
DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 7:47 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Short peoples got no reason...Whistle
victor809 Offline
#68 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 8:32 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
We assigned waterfountains based on biological measures. Glad to see you're a big fan if tradition.
DrafterX Offline
#69 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 8:45 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Short peoples need water too... Why do you hate the short peoples.. ?? Huh
MACS Offline
#70 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 9:21 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
Not sure why I even bothered with the question. I knew the answer.

Hank status.
DrafterX Offline
#71 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 9:43 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
OhMyGod
delta1 Offline
#72 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 12:26 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
TMCTLT wrote:
[/h]

I'm good with that, if....IF they had a special talent " other than being homosexual " great let them take part....if it's just a hey look @ us queers...that's another conversation all together.

Were these hetero couples there only as a " display of heterosexuality " or did they actually lend some TALENT to the parade?


All organized parades have standards that are enforced by civic members, mostly volunteers who are socially involved in traditional business/government organizations like a chamber of commerce. These are usually the bastions of that area's most conservative citizens.

So most participants who ride on floats reflect those volunteers...with enough talent to sit or stand for two and a half hours, smile, dress up nice, wave with a cupped hand, and look like and share the same values as the civic leaders who select participants...

Renegade/irreverent parades, like the Doo Dah Parade and LGBT parades sprouted up in response to their "talent" being denied a space in the traditional parades...
RMAN4443 Offline
#73 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
MACS wrote:
I was talking to Victor, here... 8track back on the general discussion. You cross threaded! Cross forumed-ed-ed, too.

What's all this I hear about cross-dressing on the forums?????? Think
frankj1 Offline
#74 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 2:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
RMAN4443 wrote:
What's all this I hear about cross-dressing on the forums?????? Think

it's 8-track...he's revealing, or something.
tailgater Offline
#75 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 6:50 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
We assigned waterfountains based on biological measures. Glad to see you're a big fan if tradition.


In my elementary school the water fountains were in pairs. One short, one higher up.
Worked equally well for those in wheel chairs or those who were short.
I guess you could call that "biological".


And we called them "bubblers".
MACS Offline
#76 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 7:28 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
tailgater wrote:
And we called them "bubblers".


If ya gonna say it... say it right. It's a bubb-lah.
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 8:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#78 Posted: Sat, Jun 10 2017, 10:43 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
If ya gonna say it... say it right. It's a bubb-lah.

yessir!
DrafterX Offline
#79 Posted: Sun, Jun 11 2017, 7:43 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Thinking about throwing a couple ribs on da smok-lah... Mellow
Mr. Jones Offline
#80 Posted: Sun, Jun 11 2017, 8:10 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
Is this ...
The new...

FRANK & MACS 500 THREAD?
MACS Offline
#81 Posted: Sun, Jun 11 2017, 9:15 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
DrafterX wrote:
Thinking about throwing a couple ribs on da smok-lah... Mellow


I got sliced brisket and burnt ends from yesterday.

Mmmmmm... smoked brisket.
DrafterX Offline
#82 Posted: Sun, Jun 11 2017, 10:23 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Kinda lazy today and got stuff to do so I'll just burn them on da grill later... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted: Sun, Jun 11 2017, 8:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Did cheese-burgers instead... I don't know why but they are awesome... tillimook cheese... ThumpUp
DrMaddVibe Offline
#84 Posted: Mon, Jun 12 2017, 1:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,424
victor809 wrote:
Seeing as our government has had policies in place various times throughout it's history specifically excluding various races, genders and sexualities depending on the year an independence day parade is certainly an exclusion of a specific group.

Pretty sure slaves weren't celebrating US independence pre civil war. And I'm gonna bet plenty of women weren't thrilled with it pre sufferage. And given the disparate set of laws regarding gay rights there may be some who don't think this country stands for them yet.



Every day is SAMMICH DAY!!!!
tailgater Offline
#85 Posted: Mon, Jun 12 2017, 3:17 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
And given the disparate set of laws regarding gay rights there may be some who don't think this country stands for them yet.



What laws are you referring to, specifically?
DrafterX Offline
#86 Posted: Mon, Jun 12 2017, 6:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Why do they need separate laws..?? Huh
tailgater Offline
#87 Posted: Tue, Jun 13 2017, 8:39 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Because the laws of nature aren't enough?
DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted: Tue, Jun 13 2017, 12:22 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Think
well, that would make them illegals.... Mellow
MACS Offline
#89 Posted: Tue, Jun 13 2017, 12:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
tailgater wrote:
What laws are you referring to, specifically?



You're gonna need a snickers bar.
teedubbya Offline
#90 Posted: Tue, Jun 13 2017, 12:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm opposed to the law that forces them to wear gold lamé to all special occasions.
DrafterX Offline
#91 Posted: Tue, Jun 13 2017, 5:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Did you loose yours..?? Huh
frankj1 Offline
#92 Posted: Tue, Jun 13 2017, 6:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tw's low!
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