America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 6 years ago by delta1. 33 replies replies.
Police Less Respectful to Blacks
Jump to Bottom | Previous Topic | Next Topic
delta1 Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 1:35 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,780
Prolly not surprising...it IS Science Magazine, so it's NOT fake news...

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/body-cams-reveal-us-police-use-less-respectful-language-black-drivers
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 1:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
speaking Jive correctly takes practice.... Mellow
RMAN4443 Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 1:52 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
speaking Jive correctly takes practice.... Mellow

Beaver Cleaver's mom used to speak jive fog
jjanecka Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Probably need to suppliment this article with which races treat cops the worst too.
victor809 Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 2:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I would bet they regressed for that already.
MACS Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,769
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThRb9x-RieI
teedubbya Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 2:48 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
yea they prolly deserve it and stuff
DrafterX Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 3:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
OhMyGod
Abrignac Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 4:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,268
delta1 wrote:
Prolly not surprising...it IS Science Magazine, so it's NOT fake news...

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06/body-cams-reveal-us-police-use-less-respectful-language-black-drivers


The article title is fake. They surveyed only Oakland police, yet the author makes to jump to say US police.


One example on the low end: “All right, my man. Do me a favor. Just keep your hands on the steering wheel real quick.” On the high end: “There you go, ma’am. Drive safe, please.”

BTW, men generally talk differently to men than they speak to women.

So yea, I'm throwing the BS flag.
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 4:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So I checked the science overview. I was wrong they did not regress for the individuals behavior towards the officer. Instead they rated anonymously (by college students) based on both the individuals behavior and the officers reaction. This then gave them a set of rated words which they used to analyze the transcriptions.

Their support for it not being reactive is that the initial ratings showed a bias regardless of individuals behavior and that much of the data was on initial words so before the individual could do or say anything to impact it. Additionally they did regress for whether there was an arrest made and severity of crime. So not bad... for social data.

I understand Anthony's concern for extrapolation regionally... this is technically only one department so there is a possibility that it is due to some endemic problem within that department and not nationwide. There is a lot of data collected within that department though. I'd say if they could replicate the experiment in a couple other cities that might support the idea that it's national rather than just a problem in oakland.
MACS Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 4:43 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,769
It's pretty much subjective bullsheit.

Not disrespectful... less respectful. By what margin? By whose account? Oh, a group of college students gave their opinions on it.

A 'science' magazine should be ashamed to publish such nonsense.
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Do you think a group of "MACSs" would have rated the words differently?
Abrignac Offline
#13 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 5:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,268
victor809 wrote:
Do you think a group of "MACSs" would have rated the words differently?




WGAF? It looks a a lot like a solution looking for a problem.
delta1 Offline
#14 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 5:20 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,780
The editor who wrote the title is to be blamed, not the author, for the use of US in the title. This implies that the results in Oakland can be applied to the rest of the nation...the article refers to a Stanford University study that recently completed a four year nationwide study of traffic stops made throughout the US.


...but, I find it interesting that Oakland's PD is accused of being disrespectful, since the city's population is so diverse, and so is it's PD...and law enforcement training in California for the past 30 years has emphasized community policing as a foundation for effective community and police relationships...

... the study used 70 independent persons who didn't know the race or background of the persons making the statements, and also used speech pattern algorithms to interpret the differences between "respectful" and "disrespectful"



Food for thought: does disrespect by PD lead to biased policing...more citizen vs police confrontations...more shootings of citizens...more shootings of police by enraged lunatic citizens?

As a graduate of a police academy, I know that respectful and courteous professional communication with members of the public is taught, and is a criteria by which each cadet is evaluated.
Speyside Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
This is to subjective. Things like what was the racial demographic of the students? What was the liberal/ conservative demographic of the students. What was the age demographic of the students?
Abrignac Offline
#16 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 5:36 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,268
Speyside wrote:
This is to subjective. Things like what was the racial demographic of the students? What was the liberal/ conservative demographic of the students. What was the age demographic of the students?


Not mention the political bias of the person/people who programmed the algorithms.
victor809 Offline
#17 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 5:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I am not going to agree with you there.
The people judging the dialog are doing so blind so their race or political leaning is irrelevant. They don't know who the words are said by or to so if they are judging one set of words as more or less respectful it is based only on those words.

Additionally the people programming the algorithm should be using the numbers generated by the students who judged the words. They aren't adding any special weight to the equations that I saw. Without looking at a methods section I think it would be incorrect to assume they were able to inject their bias into it.

ZRX1200 Offline
#18 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 5:46 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
I'm curious what that department's hiring requirement is for diversity.
Abrignac Offline
#19 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 5:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,268
victor809 wrote:
I am not going to agree with you there.
The people judging the dialog are doing so blind so their race or political leaning is irrelevant. They don't know who the words are said by or to so if they are judging one set of words as more or less respectful it is based only on those words.

Additionally the people programming the algorithm should be using the numbers generated by the students who judged the words. They aren't adding any special weight to the equations that I saw. Without looking at a methods section I think it would be incorrect to assume they were able to inject their bias into it.



Blind or not, there's an inherent bias. Different cultural groups find different thing offensive. Males and females don't always agree on what's offensive. At least 3-4 times a day I say funny things to my wife, yet instead of laughing, she gets pi$$ed off..

As I stated earlier, I solution looking for a problem.
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 6:00 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,587
^ cracker ass cracker
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 6:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
We're talking about using sir/ma'am, last names, thanking people...

This isn't some deep dive on miss manners here. I agree there could be some differences in how the college students view it however as they are judging all the interactions that should not show a difference between races. That would be a global raising or lowering of the score across all categories.

I don't think this is necessarily a solution looking for a problem either as there is clearly some sort of problem with some black communities not feeling like the police are there to protect them...
gummy jones Offline
#22 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 6:03 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
It's called science mag. It has to be good.
Abrignac Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,268
victor809 wrote:
We're talking about using sir/ma'am, last names, thanking people...

This isn't some deep dive on miss manners here. I agree there could be some differences in how the college students view it however as they are judging all the interactions that should not show a difference between races. That would be a global raising or lowering of the score across all categories.

I don't think this is necessarily a solution looking for a problem either as there is clearly some sort of problem with some black communities not feeling like the police are there to protect them...


The biggest lie propagated by politicians is that law enforcement can make a community safe. Law enforcement by law is reactionary. It's called reasonable suspicion and probable cause. Police don't put a person under surveillance without reasonable suspicion. It's a waste of strained resources. Police can't arrest a person before they commit a crime. The fourth amendment is crystal clear on this subject.

The only way a community to feel safe it to make themselves safe. They do this by working with police to remove criminals. This works much better when members of said community 1) stop condoning illegal behavior; 2) cooperate with law enforcement when they are conducting an investigation; and 3) take ownership of their problems, instead of blaming them on others.
victor809 Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 6:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I think you are intentionally misinterpreting my statement. There are clearly some communities that don't feel the police are there to protect them because they feel the police are against them (this has nothing to do with the police actually making anything safer or not simply the interactions between the community and the police). This is an actual problem, separate from what may or may not be the intended role of the police or the state of the community because the problem is a perception problem. You could have a police force which has a quota of how make blacks they are going to try to kill each day and technically not have this problem if you are able to resolve the perception the community has around that police department.

Is perception important? I don't know... . I'm not a good person to ask that question of, because I'm not a big fan of perception. But there is obviously a perception issue....
MACS Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 6:57 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,769
Abrignac wrote:
The biggest lie propagated by politicians is that law enforcement can make a community safe. Law enforcement by law is reactionary. It's called reasonable suspicion and probable cause. Police don't put a person under surveillance without reasonable suspicion. It's a waste of strained resources. Police can't arrest a person before they commit a crime. The fourth amendment is crystal clear on this subject.

The only way a community to feel safe it to make themselves safe. They do this by working with police to remove criminals. This works much better when members of said community 1) stop condoning illegal behavior; 2) cooperate with law enforcement when they are conducting an investigation; and 3) take ownership of their problems, instead of blaming them on others.


Whoa, whoa... stop with the common sense, Anthony. We ain't got no time fo dat!!
jjanecka Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 7:15 PM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Yeah Tony, the stats don't work by way of reason.
Abrignac Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Jul 6 2017, 7:43 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,268
victor809 wrote:
I think you are intentionally misinterpreting my statement. There are clearly some communities that don't feel the police are there to protect them because they feel the police are against them (this has nothing to do with the police actually making anything safer or not simply the interactions between the community and the police). This is an actual problem, separate from what may or may not be the intended role of the police or the state of the community because the problem is a perception problem. You could have a police force which has a quota of how make blacks they are going to try to kill each day and technically not have this problem if you are able to resolve the perception the community has around that police department.

Is perception important? I don't know... . I'm not a good person to ask that question of, because I'm not a big fan of perception. But there is obviously a perception issue....



When an unsubstantiated perception is at play....
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Jul 7 2017, 7:53 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
Cop: Turn around..
Me: Every now and then I get a little bit lonely and you're never coming round...Whistle
Cop: Turn Around..!!
Me: Every..
*gets tased* Sad
Buckwheat Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Jul 7 2017, 8:46 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Isn't this supposed to be a two way street? fog
Speyside Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Jul 7 2017, 8:52 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
It used to be. In most communities it still is.
DrafterX Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Jul 7 2017, 12:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
and stuff like this always helps.... Not talking

http://nypost.com/2017/07/07/sheriff-blasts-columnists-sensational-account-of-traffic-stop/
Gene363 Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Jul 7 2017, 2:20 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,810
MACS wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThRb9x-RieI


Attempting to use facts again, Shame on you you know that's gonna trigger the sensitive haters.

Actually, a cogent and compelling video.

This PSA might help the perceived problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8
delta1 Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Jul 8 2017, 11:51 AM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,780
^ Dude was funny...wonder what happened to him...
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Back to Top