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Last post 6 years ago by bgz. 25 replies replies.
Boveda making RH 2-4 points too high in VERY small container
Pudding Mittens Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
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Hi all. I'm calibrating some new hygrometers by putting them in a clear airtight plastic box with a 69% Boveda pack.

However the only suitable box I have at the moment is very small, so I had to use it. It's the same "footprint" (length and width) as the Boveda pack itself and only about 1.5" tall internally. It barely holds the Boveda pack and a couple of small hygros.

I've noticed that after 24 hours the RH consistently sits 2-4 points too high. It's a 69 pack, but it appears to be 71-73 in there. To rule out the new hygros all being off by the same amount and in the same direction (unlikely), I used a couple of pre-calibrated, known-good hygros to verify it, and indeed it always sits at 71-73.

Do Boveda packs sometimes cause slightly too high humidity in very very small containers? I'm sure they're not meant to be used in containers THAT tiny, and perhaps there's insufficient air space to let them work as intended. I suspect if I use a somewhat larger container, I might see the consistent 69% as I'm supposed to.

Anyone else ever notice this? Thanks.

I'm going to get a larger (just a bit larger, not huge) airtight container later today, and I'll report back.

Full details: the box is a "Lock & Lock" brand with full-perimeter rubber gasket and the lid locks down onto the body on all four sides. The room is 24/7 air conditioned to 68 F. The 69% Boveda pack is brand new. The exact same thing happened with an older, recently-recharged Boveda pack too, though.
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Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
I forget the exact value, but tey have a +/- margin of a few points.

Also, if the pack is over saturated, it will give off excess humidity. If you have a small scale the small packs should weigh no more than 8g
Pudding Mittens Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
Thunder.Gerbil wrote:
I forget the exact value, but tey have a +/- margin of a few points.

Yeah, there's some room for error, as I recall. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the somewhat larger container! I'll let you guys know.

Quote:
Also, if the pack is over saturated, it will give off excess humidity.

I was worried about this, yes, because initially I used a 60g pack that I'd recharged, so I thought perhaps it was too heavy (well over 60g) and was thus emitting a bit too much. I have no scale to check though. That's why I used a brand-new one this time around (freshly removed from its plastic overwrap seconds before use). That brand-new one had the same issue (71-73, just like the recharged one caused).
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Quote:
If you have a small scale the small packs should weigh no more than 8g

I don't have any 8g packs. I use only 60g. And like I said, no scale. Maybe I'll buy a scale, it'd make life easier.
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Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
I miss read, you wrote small container, somehow I read small pack.
bgz Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Overthink much?

Just calibrate them the old fashioned way.
MACS Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,599
bgz wrote:
Overthink much?

Just calibrate them the old fashioned way.


Yep... salt test. http://www.wikihow.com/Test-a-Hygrometer
Pudding Mittens Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
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My research indicates that the salt test is less reliable and is prone to error (due to slightly-incorrect salt/water amounts, etc.), and it's better, more reliable/accurate and easier to use a Boveda in an airtight container. Also supposedly the salt test can cause problems with electronic hygrometers, with some manufacturers explicitly saying "do not use the salt test!"

Hence, my decision to use "Boveda in a box". It'll be interesting when I use a larger container, say, shoebox-sized, soon. I have a feeling it'll be a dead-on 69%. I think my current super-tiny box is just too small and the Boveda simply wasn't designed for that situation.
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dstieger Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Salt test.

Besides, if your jerry-rigged Boveda test was good....then, why would Boveda even bother with putting out a Boveda cal kit? Seems to me that even Boveda knows better than to suggest cal with a 'regular' humi pack.
Pudding Mittens Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
dstieger wrote:
Besides, if your jerry-rigged Boveda test was good....then, why would Boveda even bother with putting out a Boveda cal kit? Seems to me that even Boveda knows better than to suggest cal with a 'regular' humi pack.


I suspect the existence of the "calibration kit" offered by Boveda, with the tiny Boveda pack and small plastic bag, is because the standard-sized 60g packs need a certain minimum number of cubic inches of air around them to work properly, and when put in a container with less than that volume, they cause RH that's too high, and that minimum volume is kind of large for a mere calibration bag or box. The alternative would be for them to sell a calibration kit with a 60g pack and a very large bag, far larger than is needed to calibrate a small instrument.

This is consistent with what I'm experiencing with the 60g pack in a tiny box. Later today, I get a bigger box.
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bgz Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
lmfao, still overthinking.

The "calibration kit" exists for all the dumb sh17s out there who refuse to believe the salt test is sufficient.

We're controlling the RH of cigars, we're not running a fuggin clean room.
RMAN4443 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Salt test in a large ziplock bag works for me
Pudding Mittens Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
.
I'm finding forum posts from guys who are confirming that a 60g in a larger container works perfectly, just as I suspected. Hooray. Gonna find out for myself soon.
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bgz Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
GL!!!

The container store appreciates your business...

SMFHLMFAO
tamapatom Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
It shouldn't matter what size the air space other than if you have a big air space you make the boveda work harder and it dries out quicker. They are supposed to stop contributing moisture at a certain RH regardless of air volume. They give off moisture and seek a balance at a specific RH. Not sure how a hydrometer works but maybe they are drawing moisture out of the boveda because excess moisture is available? To calibrate a hygrometer boveda suggests a different pack.
Pudding Mittens Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
tamapatom wrote:
It shouldn't matter what size the air space other than if you have a big air space you make the boveda work harder and it dries out quicker. They are supposed to stop contributing moisture at a certain RH regardless of air volume. They give off moisture and seek a balance at a specific RH.

I agree that it seems like it shouldn't matter, but it appears that it does. So far, the larger container (4.4 liter, the interior volume of a somewhat modest desktop humidor, which is what the pack is designed for) is holding at 69% exactly, while other container at 1/8th the size (0.55 liter, about the interior volume of a 5-count Herf-a-dor, if even that big, which the pack was not designed for), was holding at 71-73%. Very interesting.
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jjanecka Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
I dunno abou y'all but salt tests/boveda tests seem pretty newbish. If you don't utilize a computerized pressurized airspace with fresh 70% air exchanges and electrostatic filtering every 30 minutes you're doing it wrong...
tamapatom Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
Pudding Mittens wrote:
I agree that it seems like it shouldn't matter, but it appears that it does. So far, the larger container (4.4 liter, the interior volume of a somewhat modest desktop humidor, which is what the pack is designed for) is holding at 69% exactly, while other container at 1/8th the size (0.55 liter, about the interior volume of a 5-count Herf-a-dor, if even that big, which the pack was not designed for), was holding at 71-73%. Very interesting.
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For a balanced experiment put a hygrometer in both the small and large container at the same time with NO bovedas........and see if they stabilize at same RH. They might be claustrophobic.
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
bgz wrote:


We're controlling the RH of cigars, we're not running a fuggin clean room.

yeah. pretty much.

how do they feel? How do they smoke?
mikey1597 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 05-18-2007
Posts: 14,162
i'm moist
bgz Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
frankj1 wrote:
yeah. pretty much.

how do they feel? How do they smoke?


Round, sometimes curvy, sometimes perky... as long as they are all natural, they are quite soft...

Almost like... a bag of sand.

How do they smoke?!?!?!

Sometimes they're smokin hot!
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
mikey1597 wrote:
i'm moist

Mikey!
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
bgz wrote:
Round, sometimes curvy, sometimes perky... as long as they are all natural, they are quite soft...

Almost like... a bag of sand.

How do they smoke?!?!?!

Sometimes they're smokin hot!

I knew I could count on you.
Buckwheat Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Don't sweat the small stuff. If the cigars are smoking well then you are good. And the most important advice; a full humidor is a healthy humidor. Life's too short to smoke crappy cigars. fog
Pudding Mittens Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
.
Well, here we are more than 24 hours later, and the larger (4.4-liter) gasketed airtight clear plastic container with the four latches all around its perimeter and the standard 60g Boveda inside did the trick beautifully. Perfect 69% environment, and big enough that I was able to perfectly calibrate all of my numerous hygrometers simultaneously.
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bgz Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Congratulations!!!

Don't forget to freeze.
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