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victor809 Offline
#101 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Are they treasonous war ponies or union war ponies?
delta1 Offline
#102 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:15 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,772
...sigh...
DrafterX Offline
#103 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:17 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,534
victor809 wrote:
Are they treasonous war ponies or union war ponies?



well, maybe we should put a plaque on them so we know.. kinda like a short history lesson... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#104 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Nothing to learn from that. Other than whether the statue creator liked treasonous figured or patriots.
DrafterX Offline
#105 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 4:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,534
well, even that would tell you a little bit about the local government at the time.. it's not like this is in somebody's front yard.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#106 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 4:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
And I already stated that. A confederate statue erected in the south in 1913 tells you more about the south in 1913 than the civil war.
delta1 Offline
#107 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 5:21 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,772
C'mon victor...those things happened a long time ago...you can't hold the current people responsible for their despicable acts...nor equate people today with them...


... but they sure do love those guys and want to remember them...Make America Great Again...
frankj1 Offline
#108 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
opelmanta1900 wrote:
they took our jobs!

work smarter, not harder.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#109 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:38 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
You will not replace me Frank! well maybe one or 2 weekends a month would be nice... what's your schedule look like for the second half of September?
DrafterX Offline
#110 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,534
victor809 wrote:
And I already stated that. A confederate statue erected in the south in 1913 tells you more about the south in 1913 than the civil war.



Well, we could put guy in uniform on da war pony so people learn a little more about history and stuff... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#111 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:46 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
so I'm gonna rephrase my question...

what does chanting "Jews Won't Replace Us" have to do with nice people wanting to protect and preserve statues of Confederate war heroes?
They should have been harshly condemned without any equivocation or connection to those that opposed and fought them.

The resulting fight was a separate issue from the intended message of the protesters, and a secondary discussion regarding the blame for violence could be understood.

also:
The statues are actual works of art, regardless of who paid or why they were commissioned. They are not Historical Artifacts of the actual times they commemorate, but they are works of art created years later honoring (rightly or wrongly) the way folks of that time and that location felt about the real historical events.

That said, there are reasons to put them in museums. Many will visit and weep, many more will visit and feel indignation. Judgement aside, art can and should evoke such strong emotions.
victor809 Offline
#112 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
frankj1 wrote:


The resulting fight was a separate issue from the intended message of the protesters, and a secondary discussion regarding the blame for violence could be understood.



I'm not sure this is true.

Or I'm not understanding your statement.

But I don't believe the organizers of this particular protest had any real interest in statues. They are avowed white power people... I think they chose this particular issue (statue being removed) as something to focus their group on, but from what I've read/watched about the organizer, I get more of a feeling that the intent was to have a confrontation. They were just looking for an excuse... they would have chosen a cafeteria no longer serving white bread if that was convenient.

This whole debacle was probably considered pretty successful by the people who organized it.
DrafterX Offline
#113 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 8:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,534
White bread does suck... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#114 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 8:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
victor809 wrote:
I'm not sure this is true.

Or I'm not understanding your statement.

But I don't believe the organizers of this particular protest had any real interest in statues. They are avowed white power people... I think they chose this particular issue (statue being removed) as something to focus their group on, but from what I've read/watched about the organizer, I get more of a feeling that the intent was to have a confrontation. They were just looking for an excuse... they would have chosen a cafeteria no longer serving white bread if that was convenient.

This whole debacle was probably considered pretty successful by the people who organized it.

you're not way off on my meaning. Hence, what does antisemitic chanting have to do with preserving Dixie? Clearly their intent had little to do with statues and much to do with the indefensible message of Hitler live and on big HDTV screens.

But I am also acknowledging the fight, if only as a secondary issue. Should be a blip on the screen when Americans consider that they witnessed what many never dreamed they'd ever see here...and then have it whitewashed, so to speak.
victor809 Offline
#115 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 8:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
What's the phrase Frank? It can happen here?
bgz Offline
#116 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 8:21 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
DrafterX wrote:
White bread does suck... Mellow


^ true
frankj1 Offline
#117 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 8:33 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
victor809 wrote:
What's the phrase Frank? It can happen here?

I see what you did there.

For those who have not followed my career closely, Victor is spoofing the title of the 1935 Sinclair Lewis novel It Can't Happen Here. Simply chilling.


but first ya have to get rid of the free media, then ...
victor809 Offline
#118 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 8:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Well... don't give me too much credit. I didn't intentionally screw up the title.... what happens after you intentionally discredit the media...?
frankj1 Offline
#119 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 9:14 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
it just gets sooo much easier to recruit the unemployed, underemployed, and others angry at their lots in life, into civilian troopers. They'll gladly do the bidding of the emerging fascist dictator...and it happens so quickly after the inauguration of the former senator turned populist president elect.

A must read now, it spoke to similar emotions and societal divisions born of the Great Depression and it's aftermath.
frankj1 Offline
#120 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 9:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I left out that squelching the media leaves the emerging fascist with little criticism. So scary that this prez pushes that agenda.
jjanecka Offline
#121 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 9:35 PM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
The problem is that regulating the minority will only cause the minority come back and regulate once they are the majority. That's the whole problem with censoring people. Once you repress someone you will find yourself repressed.
jjanecka Offline
#122 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 9:38 PM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
In this context I mean the minority party not the dumb@ss antifa people or the klan or nazi skinheads all those organizations need to be purged from our midsts.
bgz Offline
#123 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 10:03 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
frankj1 wrote:
I left out that squelching the media leaves the emerging fascist with little criticism. So scary that this prez pushes that agenda.


If trump is squelching the media, he's doing a horrible job at it. You ever see the CNN RSS feed? They might as well change their name to 24/7 Trump Bashing Channel.

IMO the left generally pushes more fascist ideals than the right. I don't think many people really understand what it means, I mean the closest type of government to fascism is communism. The word is really overused in their talking points.

Let's be honest, fascism requires a group of people with their eye on the prize working together... does that sound more like Trump or the leftist elite?
Speyside Offline
#124 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 10:04 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Frank, you are right, the appropriate place for the statues is in a museum, or art institute. I am mortified by the hate that still exists in our society. I wish we had moved beyond that, but seeing it in the light of day reminds me to never forget, and we must never allow it to happen again due to apathy. I saw a piece on the news where the local rabbi was interviewed. His point of view was very moving and emotional to me. They literally locked down their Torah, and a holocaust Torah for fear of desecration.
bgz Offline
#125 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 10:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
jjanecka wrote:
The problem is that regulating the minority will only cause the minority come back and regulate once they are the majority. That's the whole problem with censoring people. Once you repress someone you will find yourself repressed.


I agree, the most vile and disgusting speech needs to be protected. Without that, the system fails.
frankj1 Offline
#126 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 10:12 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
bgz wrote:
I agree, the most vile and disgusting speech needs to be protected. Without that, the system fails.

I'm on record supporting that
frankj1 Offline
#127 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 10:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
bgz wrote:
If trump is squelching the media, he's doing a horrible job at it. You ever see the CNN RSS feed? They might as well change their name to 24/7 Trump Bashing Channel.

IMO the left generally pushes more fascist ideals than the right. I don't think many people really understand what it means, I mean the closest type of government to fascism is communism. The word is really overused in their talking points.

Let's be honest, fascism requires a group of people with their eye on the prize working together... does that sound more like Trump or the leftist elite?

yup, he is doing a horrible job at it. But might you agree it is his goal?

and the closest to fascism has been nazism.
bgz Offline
#128 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 10:42 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
frankj1 wrote:
yup, he is doing a horrible job at it. But might you agree it is his goal?

and the closest to fascism has been nazism.


To be honest, it's tough for me to tell what his goals are half the time. As far as the media goes, he's always on the defensive, usually because of his awesome orating skills, so I don't know if I would really say it's his goal.

I'll agree that he probably wishes he could make it happen, but I'm pretty sure he understands that it's not a plausible solution, so he has to resort to misdirection just like every other politician... and he's not very good at that either.
victor809 Offline
#129 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 11:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
The instant he claimed real news stories were "fake news" using the platform of the presidency he started a campaign of discrediting the news. Have you forgotten the whole "alternative facts" bs?
bgz Offline
#130 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 12:21 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Well, reporters have gotten sloppy since the advent of blogs and being pressured to pump out content fast by their superiors. So he's not wrong from a certain point of view.

What's that old saying, don't attribute to malice that is sufficiently defined by incompetence... or something like that.

I would say there's quite a bit of that on many sides :D

Anyway, I have faith the system will shake out all the bugs some day... doubt it'll be in my lifetime though.
frankj1 Offline
#131 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 7:46 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I nodded "yes" at 128, 129 and 130.

However, I also think his stated admiration of Putin as a leader, his previous remarks about the smarts of Fatty Fat and more have been less about being a fan and more about wishing he had the same unilateral powers...like if he was, say, the head of a family corporation?

He is irritated that our way of life hopes to prevent a power grab like that.
bgz Offline
#132 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 8:47 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
frankj1 wrote:
I nodded "yes" at 128, 129 and 130.

However, I also think his stated admiration of Putin as a leader, his previous remarks about the smarts of Fatty Fat and more have been less about being a fan and more about wishing he had the same unilateral powers...like if he was, say, the head of a family corporation?

He is irritated that our way of life hopes to prevent a power grab like that.



He could definitely use a little more tact and a lot less haste.

Checks and balances are a good thing no matter who's in there.
gummy jones Offline
#133 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 8:59 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
frankj1 wrote:
I nodded "yes" at 128, 129 and 130.

However, I also think his stated admiration of Putin as a leader, his previous remarks about the smarts of Fatty Fat and more have been less about being a fan and more about wishing he had the same unilateral powers...like if he was, say, the head of a family corporation?

He is irritated that our way of life hopes to prevent a power grab like that.


all of these holier than though rich folks and politicians think they are much smarter than us and want unilateral power. they know what is best for us. that went for obama the same as trump and pretty much every president before them

i have a feeling the next president will be cut from the same mold
frankj1 Offline
#134 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 12:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
gummy jones wrote:
all of these holier than though rich folks and politicians think they are much smarter than us and want unilateral power. they know what is best for us. that went for obama the same as trump and pretty much every president before them

i have a feeling the next president will be cut from the same mold

I enjoy when I can agree with guys like you and BGZ.
I'd like to add though that though they all would love unilateral power, none from either side that I can think of threw tantrums before.
TMCTLT Offline
#135 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 12:42 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
I enjoy when I can agree with guys like you and BGZ.
I'd like to add though that though they all would love unilateral power, none from either side that I can think of threw tantrums before.



Well @ least our current president and first lady didn't attend ( for 20 yrs.) a racist America hating church....they do have that going for them. :)
teedubbya Offline
#136 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 12:48 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I thought he was a Muslim.
delta1 Offline
#137 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 12:50 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,772
I do agree that those who ascend to power become blinded by it, both Dems and GOP. I also agree that the wealthiest in our society don't care all that much about which party is in power since they basically own the system. The law of the land, since Citizens United, is that corporations are people too and that money is a form of free speech. Politics has taken a serious slide towards those who can pay ever since, regardless of D and R party affiliation. There are some fine differences but they are marginal...

The bright side is that the American tradition of independence, robust individual freedom, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press and a strong healthy functioning (for the most part) tripartite form of government protects us from a power grabbing wannabe dictator. However, we should be cognizant that we have conditions that allow an oligarchy to develop...some may argue it is happening already...

That's a more real fear...greater than the threat of a fascist system like the Nazi regime under Hitler coming to power in the US.
victor809 Offline
#138 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 12:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Only when it's convenient to the narrative.

And a "racist America hating church"... I've yet to see any evidence of that.
victor809 Offline
#139 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 2:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
On Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:51 PM victor809 wrote wrote:
Nazis and pedophiles... two things that i really thought our entire country could come to agreement were bad.

But no.

Next week... Trump tweets "Jared from subway was bad... really bad... but no one is talking about those bad 12 year olds... they're bad too!"



DAMMIT!!! I WAS SO RIGHT!!!!

This was before the Moore debacle broke...
frankj1 Offline
#140 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 2:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
facing west and bowing

that's eerie.
victor809 Offline
#141 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 4:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
My powers of divination are available for birthdays and bar mitzvahs. Tell your friends!
delta1 Offline
#142 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 5:50 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,772
so victor the prognosticator...rub your crystal balls...

do you think Mueller's probe will reach the top, with dirt on Trump?

If so, will there be a GOP controlled House or a Dem controlled House?
victor809 Offline
#143 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866

sorry.... I started rubbing my balls and got distracted.... were you saying something?
bgz Offline
#144 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 6:06 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I think he was saying something about how you were an amazing amateur proctologist with cystic balls and how you wanted to probe some dude name Bueller.
victor809 Offline
#145 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I think he asked if Mueller would probe trump and give him dirty sanchez ....

my cystic balls are murky.... but signs point to yes.. trump will get a sh17 mustache from mueller
frankj1 Offline
#146 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 6:55 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
victor809 wrote:
I think he asked if Mueller would probe trump and give him dirty sanchez ....

my cystic balls are murky.... but signs point to yes.. trump will get a sh17 mustache from mueller

so, you're actually one of those magic eight balls?
bgz Offline
#147 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:02 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
no poop emoji on this site!?!?!?!

WTF!!!

(Poop emoji goes here)
victor809 Offline
#148 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
To be fair, only the left testicle is a magic 8-ball.

The right one tried telling me trump was going to denounce nazis, apologize for assaulting women and start a national story-time "fireside chat" where he reads a chapter of war and peace to the nation every night.

Right ball is an idiot.
frankj1 Offline
#149 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
victor809 wrote:
To be fair, only the left testicle is a magic 8-ball.

The right one tried telling me trump was going to denounce nazis, apologize for assaulting women and start a national story-time "fireside chat" where he reads a chapter of war and peace to the nation every night.

Right ball is an idiot.

you really should be paying me for these set-ups.
victor809 Offline
#150 Posted: Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
frankj1 wrote:
you really should be paying me for these set-ups.


Only if you keep rubbing left ball.
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