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Regulating Guns will Not Prevent Mass Shootings
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Stinkdyr Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Oct 12 2017, 3:51 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
frankj1 wrote:
rough week William.
threadjack on:
root canal yesterday and that was my favorite day!
threadjack off:



hehehehe....he said jack-off.

signed,
Beavis
Brewha Offline
#52 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 10:07 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
Regarding the OP; I don’t believe there is even one thinking person who would tell you that regulating guns would prevent mass shootings. In fact, regulating anything does not prevent anything.

Deterrence is the subject. Drug laws make drugs less available and allow us to prosecute those who traffic. They in no way and by no means prevent drug abuse. But they deter it.
Gun regulations; same thing.

My point is that the basic argument against gun regulation is fallacious. We all think deterrence is a good thing. But painting laws and regulations as being of no value because they are not a panacea is plainly wrong.
DrafterX Offline
#53 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Nobody is saying that... there are already laws on da books that are broken by these idiot mass shooter peoples.. what I'm against is more laws that will be broken just the same by future mass shooting idiots.. they don't care.. Mellow
Brewha Offline
#54 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 10:17 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
Nobody is saying that... there are already laws on da books that are broken by these idiot mass shooter peoples.. what I'm against is more laws that will be broken just the same by future mass shooting idiots.. they don't care.. Mellow

So the law are a good thing or a bad thing?
DrafterX Offline
#55 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 10:23 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
the current laws are a good thing. they are sufficient... except in California of course.. they went way overboard.. we need to repeal a few of those.. Mellow
MACS Offline
#56 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 10:36 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Brewha wrote:
Regarding the OP; I don’t believe there is even one thinking person who would tell you that regulating guns would prevent mass shootings. In fact, regulating anything does not prevent anything.

Deterrence is the subject. Drug laws make drugs less available and allow us to prosecute those who traffic. They in no way and by no means prevent drug abuse. But they deter it.
Gun regulations; same thing.

My point is that the basic argument against gun regulation is fallacious. We all think deterrence is a good thing. But painting laws and regulations as being of no value because they are not a panacea is plainly wrong.


You must be using those drugs. Drug laws have deterred nothing. It's as bad now as it has ever been, perhaps worse.

https://tinyurl.com/ycsj8ob9
victor809 Offline
#57 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 11:35 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Stinkdyr wrote:
hehehehe....he said jack-off.

signed,
Beavis


Smartest post in the thread.
DrafterX Offline
#58 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 11:41 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
A quote from someone else can't be the smartest post...Not talking
victor809 Offline
#59 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 12:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
A quote from someone else can't be the smartest post...Not talking


If it's a cbid thread then it's pretty much guaranteed to be.
frankj1 Offline
#60 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 12:15 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
victor809 wrote:
Smartest post in the thread.

of course. Stinkdyr lives in Boston. He's wicked smaht.
DrafterX Offline
#61 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 12:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
victor809 wrote:
If it's a cbid thread then it's pretty much guaranteed to be.




Did you ask Ram..?? Huh
TMCTLT Offline
#62 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 1:46 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
MACS wrote:
You must be using those drugs. Drug laws have deterred nothing. It's as bad now as it has ever been, perhaps worse.

https://tinyurl.com/ycsj8ob9



No chit....Brew must be living in a cave to believe otherwise. some drugs @ an epidemic stage in some areas of the country.
Brewha Offline
#63 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
MACS wrote:
You must be using those drugs. Drug laws have deterred nothing. It's as bad now as it has ever been, perhaps worse.

https://tinyurl.com/ycsj8ob9

well......

It is difficult to argue with that kind of.....reasoning....




Guess we should close all of the prisons too?
TMCTLT Offline
#64 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Brewha wrote:
well......

It is difficult to argue with that kind of.....reasoning....




Guess we should close all of the prisons too?



No but what with all the outsourcing of " other jobs "....why not outsource our hardcore prisoners??? Let's work out a deal with with some of the Middle E. countries or African nations to imprison the murdering / raping sonsabitches.
And don't start talking to me about their rights...it will fall on deaf ears.

Macs will be retiring soon anyway, he's the only one we care about as far as job loss.....he he
MACS Offline
#65 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Brewha wrote:
well......

It is difficult to argue with that kind of.....reasoning....

Guess we should close all of the prisons too?


You said drug laws were a deterrent. I provided evidence that they aren't a very good deterrent.
Brewha Offline
#66 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 2:54 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
TMCTLT wrote:
No but what with all the outsourcing of " other jobs "....why not outsource our hardcore prisoners??? Let's work out a deal with with some of the Middle E. countries or African nations to imprison the murdering / raping sonsabitches.
And don't start talking to me about their rights...it will fall on deaf ears.

Macs will be retiring soon anyway, he's the only one we care about as far as job loss.....he he

Well...Since prison are full of law breakers. And laws don't do anything anyway, why not just save taxpayer money and get rid of the prisons?

You know - they would be murdering and raping anyway.....
Brewha Offline
#67 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 2:55 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
MACS wrote:
You said drug laws were a deterrent. I provided evidence that they aren't a very good deterrent.

Uh, no. Good evidence to you, maybe.

But no, you did not.
victor809 Offline
#68 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS... I don't know if the "war on drugs" is an effective thing or not... but I'm not sure that counts as evidence against drug laws.
The problem is much more complicated than just plotting number of laws against drug use... New drugs have been created and distributed over this time, plus we have the really interesting impact of prescription drugs, and the number of addicts that has caused.

Basically, if it looks like it can be explained in a sentence, then there's probably something important missing.
DrafterX Offline
#69 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Funny thing about those Prescription Drug numbers.. to further their cause or whatever the reason they are now including Heroin users... they figure heroin users only use it cause they were once addicted to pain pills.. which is crap.. but it makes their numbers look better.. or worse.. depends on how you look at it.. I should just ask my doctor for heroin next time I go in I guess.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#70 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Not gonna disagree with drafter there.
Brewha Offline
#71 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
victor809 wrote:
MACS... I don't know if the "war on drugs" is an effective thing or not... but I'm not sure that counts as evidence against drug laws.
The problem is much more complicated than just plotting number of laws against drug use... New drugs have been created and distributed over this time, plus we have the really interesting impact of prescription drugs, and the number of addicts that has caused.

Basically, if it looks like it can be explained in a sentence, then there's probably something important missing.

There you go making it all complicated.

It's simple, really, really simple. And believe me - simple works like only simple can; simply.

Gun laws are bad, badly bad. Really bad.
Freedom is good, especially free freedom. For us, the free and the brave.
Being free takes a lot of bravery.....
MACS Offline
#72 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Prohibition didn't work for alcohol. It's not working for drugs.

The laws are not working.

If they legalized heroin are you going to try it? Of course not... so the people using are going to use regardless, and the ones not using ain't gonna run right out and try it if the laws go away.
DrafterX Offline
#73 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Heroin no.. Weed prolly when I retire.. just ask Colorado if new people are trying it... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#74 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:20 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
MACS wrote:
Prohibition didn't work for alcohol. It's not working for drugs.

The laws are not working.

If they legalized heroin are you going to try it? Of course not... so the people using are going to use regardless, and the ones not using ain't gonna run right out and try it if the laws go away.

No, no, no - that's not the way laws work.

They dissuade people and provide for punishment of those whom do not obey. It's like telling kids not to play with matches. Some will anyway, but they are all sure they are not supposed to and are risking punishment. Some who might have otherwise, won't.

So the laws work - but we should not expect them to change peoples nature.
DrafterX Offline
#75 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
true.. true... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#76 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:23 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS wrote:
Prohibition didn't work for alcohol. It's not working for drugs.

The laws are not working.

If they legalized heroin are you going to try it? Of course not... so the people using are going to use regardless, and the ones not using ain't gonna run right out and try it if the laws go away.



I dunno. Drug laws (especially as they relate to drug testing at DEA regulated companies) impact whether I'll do a number of drugs. Maybe not heroin, because I learned about ligand/receptor interactions and receptor down-regulation and don't want to be on the receiving end of that. Doesn't mean there aren't others who might not have that knowledge.

I'd likely do some coke if it were legal.
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
it's over-rated... but you'll look cool doing it... Mellow
MACS Offline
#78 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 3:54 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Brewha - in order for a punishment to be an effective deterrent, it must be swift, severe, and certain.

I'm sure we can agree OUR criminal justice system is none of those three. At least here in Kookifornia.
Brewha Offline
#79 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 4:23 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
MACS wrote:
Brewha - in order for a punishment to be an effective deterrent, it must be swift, severe, and certain.

I'm sure we can agree OUR criminal justice system is none of those three. At least here in Kookifornia.

Sure, sure - no argument about the efficiency of the system.

But the system does work - at some level.
At least.....
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 7:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
So, your saying if there was a law against spraying a concert crowd with bullets it may not have happened..?? Huh
Brewha Offline
#81 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 7:48 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
So, your saying if there was a law against spraying a concert crowd with bullets it may not have happened..?? Huh

Did you ever have the feeling you were trying to up load 32 gigabits memory stick into a toaster?


Uh, no, that is not...exactly what I was saying.
But now that you bring it up, why not have a law against spraying a concert crowd with bullets?
It couldn’t hurt.

Unless you’re an NRA member......
DrafterX Offline
#82 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 7:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I'm pretty sure there's already a few laws against that.. I might be wrong tho.. Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 7:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
And I wouldn't be surprised if there's a toaster out there that could take that... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#84 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 7:59 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
True...true....



Some toast would be good right now....
MACS Offline
#85 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 8:52 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Brewha wrote:
True...true....

Some toast would be good right now....


I'm sure you meant English muffins... they've outlawed guns, afterall... so they gotta be better than toast.

Personally, I prefer English muffins to toast. Thomas' of course... nooks and crannies to hide bullets.
Brewha Offline
#86 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 10:56 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
MACS wrote:
I'm sure you meant English muffins... they've outlawed guns, afterall... so they gotta be better than toast.

Personally, I prefer English muffins to toast. Thomas' of course... nooks and crannies to hide bullets.

Actually I prefer English muffins too. But the English, well, they seem unable to get over being English.

But I’m a quarter English - so can I really be a racist about this???





Time for another drink.....
MACS Offline
#87 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 11:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Say what?
MACS Offline
#88 Posted: Fri, Oct 13 2017, 11:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
I actually lived in, and experienced, these cultures and countries for many years. 4+ years in Asia/Arabian peninsula and 1+ in Europe, coupled with many visits. I've seen the entire East coast of Australia, too. Cairns, Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne.

Japan, China, Korea, Thailand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Philippines, UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq, Germany, Greece, Australia and even Mexico. Most of my British interactions were in Hong Kong.

Having visited HK 11 times from 1988-2004, I can tell you that it was, by far, much better when controlled by the Brits.
DrafterX Offline
#89 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 8:24 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Did you see CROS..?? Huh
MACS Offline
#90 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
DrafterX wrote:
Did you see CROS..?? Huh


No... I stopped at 6 beers and went to bed. No hangover, no hallucinations or double vision and stuff... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#91 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 2:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Beer
frankj1 Offline
#92 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 4:57 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
No... I stopped at 6 beers and went to bed. No hangover, no hallucinations or double vision and stuff... Mellow

some of the texts were broken up, I just assumed it was my flip phone...
Brewha Offline
#93 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 5:20 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
Seems awfully 20th century of you to use a flip phone frank.

You’re not a technophobe are you?
frankj1 Offline
#94 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 5:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
why, I don't even know the meaning of the word.
MACS Offline
#95 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 6:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
frankj1 wrote:
some of the texts were broken up, I just assumed it was my flip phone...


It was... Anxious
Ewok126 Offline
#96 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 6:37 PM EST
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
frankj1 wrote:
some of the texts were broken up, I just assumed it was my flip phone...


Wasn't the flip phone invented by some dude named Bell, I remember seeing something about those in my 3rd grade history books. No wait, that was what Armstrong used to call earth from the moon wasn't it... Crap I cant remember.... Oh yeah, I remember, I seen one on an old Sean Connery 007 Bond movie. Anxious Anxious Anxious Anxious
frankj1 Offline
#97 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 6:37 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
for #95
good.
frankj1 Offline
#98 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 6:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Ewok126 wrote:
Wasn't the flip phone invented by some dude named Bell, I remember seeing something about those in my 3rd grade history books. No wait, that was what Armstrong used to call earth from the moon wasn't it... Crap I cant remember.... Oh yeah, I remember, I seen one on an old Sean Connery 007 Bond movie. Anxious Anxious Anxious Anxious

get off my lawn!
Ewok126 Offline
#99 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 6:44 PM EST
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
frankj1 wrote:
get off my lawn!



Bwahahahahahaha
DrafterX Offline
#100 Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017, 6:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Laugh
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