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Last post 6 years ago by DrafterX. 36 replies replies.
So... Does the 5th work for everybody..???
DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Feds won't pursue contempt charges against EEeeevvill for not testifying before House
Published April 01, 2015

The Justice Department has declined to pursue contempt of Congress charges against Lois Lerner for refusing to testify about her role at the IRS in the targeting of conservative groups.

The department announced the decision in a letter Tuesday to House Speaker John Boehner, whose Republican-controlled chamber made the request to prosecute, after holding Lerner in contempt for refusing to testify at committee hearings.

"Once again, the Obama administration has tried to sweep IRS targeting of taxpayers for their political beliefs under the rug,” Boehner spokesman Michael Steel told FoxNews.com.

Lerner asserted her Fifth Amendment privilege, which allows people to not testify against themselves, during a May 2013 hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and then again at a March 2014 hearing.

However, House Republicans argued Lerner waived the privilege with an opening statement she made before the committee in the May 2013 appearance. All the chamber’s Republican members and six Democrats officially voted in May 2014 to hold Lerner in contempt.

Ron Machen Jr., the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, said in the seven-page letter that federal prosecutors concluded Lerner did not waive her privilege because she made “only general claims of innocence” during the opening statement.

“Thus, the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution would provide Ms. Lerner with an absolute defense should be prosecuted … for her refusal to testify,” wrote Machen, who was appointed to the U.S. attorney post by President Obama and left for private practice Wednesday, one day after sending the letter.

He also said he will not refer the case to a grand jury or take any other action to prosecute.

Lerner ran the IRS’s exempt organizations unit when Tea Party and other nonprofit groups with conservative names applying for tax-exempt status were targeted for additional auditing from April 2010 to April 2012.

She was placed on administrative leave in May 2013 and retired four months later.

“I have not done anything wrong,” Lerner said in her 2013 opening statement. “I have not broken any laws. I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations. And I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee.”

The IRS scandal broke in May 2013 when Lerner said at an American Bar Association gathering and during a follow-up conference call with reporters there was a “very big uptick” in nonprofit applications and that the vetting process was limited to the agency’s Cincinnati office.

However, the extent to which the Obama administration knew about the targeting, beyond Lerner’s unit in Washington, remains unclear in part because, she says, her computer crashed and emails were lost.

Lerner attorney William Taylor said he and is client are “gratified but not surprised” by the decision by the U.S. Attorney’s Office.

“Anyone who takes a serious and impartial look at this issue would conclude that Ms. Lerner did not waive her Fifth Amendment rights.” he said. “It is unfortunate that the majority party in the House put politics before a citizen’s constitutional rights.”

Steel also said the White House still has the opportunity to “do the right thing and appoint a special counsel to examine the IRS’ actions."

Ohio GOP Rep. Jim Jordan said federal prosecutors made the “wrong” decision.

“As one of his final acts as U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C., Ronald Machen used his power as a political weapon to undermine the rule of law,” Jordan said. “Machen was legally bound to convene a grand jury, but instead he ignored his obligation and unilaterally decided to ignore the will of the House. … This is wrong, and a great example of why so many Americans distrust their government.”

Film at 11.... Think Think
TMCTLT Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Of course not....only some in the Elite Class Brick wall
Buckwheat Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
So they have a problem with her exercising her constitutional rights under the fifth amendment?

You don't have to be part of the elite class to use the fifth amendment.

What she/they did was wrong but I don't have a problem with her/them using the fifth amendment in order to not testify. fog
TMCTLT Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Buckwheat wrote:
So they have a problem with her exercising her constitutional rights under the fifth amendment?

You don't have to be part of the elite class to use the fifth amendment.

What she/they did was wrong but I don't have a problem with her/them using the fifth amendment in order to not testify. fog



I understand where your coming from Julian but the two are counterproductive AND a free pass to get away with Illegal wrong doing. How are we ever going to be allowed to prosecute these law breakers if theycan simply fall back on the 5th?
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We should selectively remove the 5th from folks. Do it in the name of religion. That seems to be in vogue.
DrafterX Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
well, if TW refuses to take a breathalyzer test after 17 beers at the bar, isn't that an automatic admission of guilt..?? Beer
teedubbya Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
well, if TW refuses to take a breathalyzer test after 17 beers at the bar, isn't that an automatic admission of guilt..?? Beer



you wouldn't talk to me like that if I wasn't in this wheelchair
DrafterX Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
you wouldn't talk to me like that if you weren't on da beer.... Not talking
Buckwheat Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
TMCTLT wrote:
I understand where your coming from Julian but the two are counterproductive AND a free pass to get away with Illegal wrong doing. How are we ever going to be allowed to prosecute these law breakers if theycan simply fall back on the 5th?


It's harder but not impossible to prosecute these cases. It's the way our system is set up. Hell, US history is littered with guilty people that got away without doing any time. You can hardly swing a dead cat in Washington without knocking over 1/2 a dozen. fog
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
it's a nice day for a dead cat... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
TMCTLT wrote:
I understand where your coming from Julian but the two are counterproductive AND a free pass to get away with Illegal wrong doing. How are we ever going to be allowed to prosecute these law breakers if theycan simply fall back on the 5th?


So are you saying we should enforce certain constitution protections while limiting others? Slippery slope, beware.

For what it's worth, the 5th amendment isn't a free pass to get away with wrong doing. It merely forces law enforcement to do their job which is to build a case with evidence. Confessions in of themselves barley muster at probable cause.
Abrignac Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
DrafterX wrote:
it's a nice day for a dead cat... Mellow


Or a white wedding.
TMCTLT Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Abrignac wrote:
So are you saying we should enforce certain constitution protections while limiting others? Slippery slope, beware.

For what it's worth, the 5th amendment isn't a free pass to get away with wrong doing. It merely forces law enforcement to do their job which is to build a case with evidence. Confessions in of themselves barley muster at probable cause.



Seems we're already on one....beware
Speyside Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Freedom sometimes has a price. Give up any freedom and we all lose. Homeland security was created though the patriot act. We have lost certain freedoms because of it. Taking the fifth is not a freedom we should willingly give up.
Brewha Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
Oh, I thought this thread was about cinco de mayo....
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Brewha wrote:
Oh, I thought this thread was about cinco de mayo....

yeah, cuz the 5th works for me too.
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I heard it's on May 5th this year... Beer
teedubbya Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Count me out. Can we move it to the sixth?
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
Count me out. Can we move it to the sixth?

works for me, but I can't host. it's a Wednesday, the wife plays mah jongg on Wednesdays.
MACS Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
TMCTLT wrote:
I understand where your coming from Julian but the two are counterproductive AND a free pass to get away with Illegal wrong doing. How are we ever going to be allowed to prosecute these law breakers if theycan simply fall back on the 5th?


Um... wait a second. Did you actually think about what you wrote there after you wrote it?? Not very many criminals do NOT plead the fifth. The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

We get guilty verdicts all the time when people plead the fifth. Collect the evidence, then present it in court. d'oh!
DrafterX Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
So.. the evidence against the Evil one doesn't count..?? Huh
Krazeehorse Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
frankj1 wrote:
yeah, cuz the 5th works for me too.


I thought it was about the size of the bottle.
frankj1 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Krazeehorse wrote:
I thought it was about the size of the bottle.

used to be true before the metric system...
MACS Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
frankj1 wrote:
used to be true before the metric system...


Well... I dunno... 750 milliliters is a "fifth" of something, right?
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
MACS wrote:
Well... I dunno... 750 milliliters is a "fifth" of something, right?

three quarters of a liter, but does it convert to a "fifth"?

never see fifths anymore. IIRC, they were 4/5 of a quart.
fiddler898 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
Put me down for a fifth on the fourth.
frankj1 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
fiddler898 wrote:
Put me down for a fifth on the fourth.

Hey, you're back!

How was work?
tonygraz Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
2 Liters is better.
fiddler898 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
frankj1 wrote:
Hey, you're back!

How was work?

Quite busy, naturally, especially between Thursday & Sunday. Had 200+ at sunrise, more than that at the regular service. Took a breather Monday, back at it today.

Time for that fifth. Pray

[Partial threadjack off. Noods.]


TMCTLT Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
MACS wrote:
Um... wait a second. Did you actually think about what you wrote there after you wrote it?? Not very many criminals do NOT plead the fifth. The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

We get guilty verdicts all the time when people plead the fifth. Collect the evidence, then present it in court. d'oh!




Of course your right on this Shawn, Yes I knew what I wrote was incorrect and should have included a Sarcasm

My bad....
frankj1 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
very nice.
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
The Trump administration, after years of litigation, has settled lawsuits with Tea Party and other conservative groups who say they were unfairly targeted by the IRS under the Obama administration.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced early Thursday that the Justice Department had entered into settlements with Tea Party groups whose tax-exempt status was significantly delayed by the IRS dating back to 2013, “based solely on their viewpoint or ideology.”

The settlements involve payments to the plaintiffs and an apology from the IRS.


The targeting scandal drew heavy attention in 2013 when the IRS admitted it applied extra scrutiny to conservative groups applying for nonprofit status. Lois Lerner, then head of the Exempt Organizations unit responsible, became the public face of the scandal, though other IRS officials were involved as well.

Sessions said that groups with names involving “Tea Party” or “Patriots,” or those with specific policy positions concerning government spending, were subject to “inappropriate criteria” to “screen” applications.

“The IRS’s use of these criteria as a basis for heightened scrutiny was wrong and should never have occurred,” Sessions said in a statement Thursday. “It is improper for the IRS to single out groups for different treatment based on their names or ideological positions.”

While the IRS did not immediately respond to Fox News’ request for comment, court documents show that the agency did offer an apology.

“The IRS admits that its treatment of Plaintiffs during the tax-exempt determination process, including screening their applications based on their names or policy positions, subjecting those applications to heightened scrutiny and inordinate delays, and demanding some Plaintiffs’ information that TIGTA determined was unnecessary to the agency’s determination of their tax-exempt status, was wrong,” the IRS said in court documents. “For such treatment, the IRS expresses its sincere apology.”

The Justice Department’s settlement would pay the claims of each of the over 400 groups in the case. The attorneys for the groups said it was “a great day for the First Amendment,” but noted that day “was too long in coming.”

“The Government’s generous settlement with the Class Plaintiffs fully vindicates their claims that the IRS targeted Tea Party and conservative groups based on their viewpoint,” lead counsel for the conservative groups, Eddie Greim, told Fox News in an email. “However, like Lois Lerner’s stated apology back in 2013, any recent so-called 'apology' by the IRS has little value. That is because the Service continues to suggest that its targeting was really just ‘mismanagement.’”

Greim added: “This story was dismantled in our case. For taxpayers to be truly confident that the IRS has changed, it needs to be truthful about its past abuse of power.”



Film at 11.... Mellow
JadeRose Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
Abrignac wrote:
Or a white wedding.





That's racist
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
interesting how the EEeeevvill One is back in the news right before Halloween... Think
teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
interesting how the EEeeevvill One is back in the news right before Halloween... Think



Agreed. It is also funny that he put out a MAGA hat featuring an orange ghoul LMAO
DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Mellow
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