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And here's the last real tax cut that actually helped most average working Americans.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/28/barack-obama/tax-cut-95-percent-stimulus-made-it-so/

House and Senate both released their proposed plans weeks ago. House even voted on theirs. It's publicly available.

strain the swamp

it's not limited to the elected garbage. Worse, we are seeing appointments of those that were key players in the destruction before the recovery.

Its a joke..

The plan cancels the medical tax credit and many other current tax advantages for the middle class.
It favors the 1% and corporations.
I don't pay taxes... anyway... some really sick federal BASTIDS have made sure it stays that way too.

"The idea that the rest of the country should have to subsidize those that choose to live in high tax states just blows my mind. "

Blue states subsidize red states. Heavily.

Besides, it's not an argument you want to get into, as your opposition could just say something along the lines of, "The idea that Americans should have to subsidize those that choose to XXXXX just blows my mind". For example, why subsidize the oil industry? Or solar, for that matter? Or "Big (industry)", or "Other Big (industry)"? I'm being rhetorical- it's all just a shell game of politicians giving deals away to friends in high places, but you get the idea.


"I don't care about intent, or whatever was going through their heads....the Senate plan proposing permanent corporate tax cuts, but temporary individual cuts was the height of stupidity"

It's brilliant, politically-speaking. Temporary laws mean politicians can use it as a weapon during election cycles. Permanent? Not so much.

From an accounting perspective it makes sense not to tax an entity on income which it never receives though... corporations are only taxed on profit (and yes I know there is a difference in income tax, as we don't assess the "profit" of the household....).
More importantly... this isn't just subsidizing high tax states. Yeah the cut is more significant there... but the incomes are also a lot more. People in Missouri get that tax break as well on their state taxes and their property taxes. And their income is significantly lower... so losing that break may hurt just as much.

State tax revenue can be pulled back to the fed?

If that's truly the case then they should f--k right off with trying to remove that deduction... ultimately people in profitable states would be taxed twice on the same income.

Agreed, but his was about a corporate money grab - not the good of the country.

The deficit pain will get even worse when Trump gets us into our next war.....

http://taxplancalculator.com/

There ya go... if you have last year's tax return, plug in the numbers and see how you'll be affected. I'm going to SAVE money, either way.

It also handles the child tax credit in an odd way.

Who are you talking to..??

Crumbs off the the rich man’s table. And they will cost dearly in the long run.

Business is going from 35% to 20%
Where is our 42% tax break???

Business tax should be 10%

That was the deal all along.

Yeah screw Sallie Mae....

Who says no one is worried about universities? That’s a new one to me. I am.

Yeah but you worked hard, avoided criminal activity and managed your money, you know, that white privilege stuff.

well, here's some food for thought ...

A) "Big Business" passes the cost of doing business (which includes taxes) along to the consumer of their goods or services ... their consumer "pays", not "big business" ...

B) "soaking the rich" is how the income tax got sold to the citizenry in the first place ... since a Constitutional Amendment was needed to implement an income tax and since approving an amendment means elections in each state, there was a huge campaign to "sell" the concept ... and "big business" and "the rich" were said to be the ones who would end up paying ... the average guy wouldn't have to pay ... then, decades of inflation later, the "rich" of that era now are pretty much below the poverty line and the rest of us are in what would have been the economic stratosphere of that time ...

C) As the government continues to "manage" more and more aspects of our lives, costs will continue to rise until the economy collapses ... we'll eventually be like post-WWI Germany where we'll have to take a wheel barrow full of money to the store in order to buy a loaf of bread (presuming the store actually has a loaf to sell) ... there was a time in history where there were at leas SOME politicians who were in favor of limited government spending ... now, the Rs are willing to spend far more than can be afforded and the Ds are hell-bent on spending even more than that ...we were in perilously deep national debt at the close of the GWB administration ... Obama doubled that debt ... and now Trump appears willing to spend even more ...

It appears we're totally f'ked .... there is no one in sight that exhibits even a shred of sense in our government ...

Good Lord... drunk post alert!!

Business doesn't pay that tax, consumers do bro.

au contraire ... I find it rather encouraging that people of differing outlooks can find common ground at a time when common sense has to prevail or we go into the sh*tter ...

a year ago we had an election in this country where the choices ranged from really bad to totally unacceptable ... and while we might not all agree on which of the candidates who were in place at the outset fell into which category, the fact is there was no one visible who appeared to have that elusive common sense ...

what DOES concern me (and greatly so, I might add) is that while there ARE a few potential candidates on either side of the aisle who DO have the qualities we so desperately need, they are unwilling to stand for office in the current political climate ... an example of that is former General Colin Powell ... he apparently toyed with the idea of running, but his wife threw the anchor overboard and told him there was no way in hell she'd go along with him tossing his hat in the ring.

the choice of picking between Hillary and the Donald was, to my way of thinking, the rock bottom worst choice in the history of the country ... anyone who actually liked either of those choices should have their voting registration suspended for being insufficiently intelligent to cast a vote at any level ... I've read that many historians feel Franklin Pierce was the worst president of all time ... I can't imagine how he could possibly be worse than what we've had to choose from in recent years ...

We agree again.

Despite MACS anal asis there wasn't a Dem I could vote for, especially a Clinton, and there were only two Republicans that could never have gotten my vote... Trump and Cruz. Any of the others, however imperfect, would have gotten my vote.

I found Trump as totally unacceptable as Hillary. To me they are very much the same and debatable which is more dangerous. I'd be railing on hill dog as much as trump had she won (although that would have been sort of boring in the echo chamber).

I honestly don't think true Republicans, let alone true conservatives (which really does not define what many in here are now calling Republican), could ever get behind Trump. There sure are a lot in here that consider themselves to be just that, that are selling their political souls for the orange pixie dust.

And there are far to many Republicans in or running for office snorting the orange pixie dust as well. I can't vote for them either. We may need a purge, and I'm afraid Trump may just provide it. Not as he plans however.

Strange times we live in.



As for the deficit, Reagan is my favorite President. It was a time where the Dems were complete loons and the Republicans were the adults. Being the adults, the Republicans did make deals with the limited adults on the other side and the 70/30 or 60/40 rule was applied by Reagan. Not the 100/0 rule of today. The fringe Republicans whined about compromise but the adults did run the show. We were better for it.

The fringe whining has come to fruition and both parties are being run by the loonies now. The Republicans have morphed closer to the Dem party I despise rather than setting itself apart as the party I respect. Do you ever notice the number of folks that were integral to the Reagan revolution that people now call RINOs?

The one argument against Reagan I found difficult to defend in the 80s was the expanding deficit. The argument I used was we needed to win the cold war and the arms race was a necessity. Trickle down was dicey at best. I still believe that and we could have now been responsible and managed it.

Instead we have gone crazy and presidents/congress of both parties have run amuck in their deficit spending orgy. They make Reagan's spending look frugal. And there are many in this very forum that rightfully railed against Obammy (and congress) deficit growth that are behind this tax bill and its certain explosion of deficit spending. In honor of Gomer... shame, shame, shame

The republican party controls everything and is passing this tax bill with no help from the loony dems. I just don't get how any true Republican can get behind the deficit explosion that is about to drop. I don't see the cold war type counter argument to the explosion.

Well, you could always become a shareholder....