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The war on herbal supplements starts
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HuckFinn Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Feb 8 2018, 5:40 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Good news for anyone worried about taking a drug test is that kratom won't show up on most standard drug tests.
Employers and government officials don't even screen for kratom use.
HuckFinn Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Feb 8 2018, 5:42 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
victor809 wrote:
She's a moron, not only because of her fraudulent "Goop" site, but also because she literally refuses to eat any plant in the nightshade family based on levels of some compounds in some of them. It's idiotic.

Never met anyone who a Paltrow fan.
I think she's cute.
I'll have her tomadas.
cacman Offline
#53 Posted: Fri, Feb 9 2018, 1:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
FDA Weaponizes 'Opioid' Label Against Kratom Consumers
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2018/02/09/fda-weaponizes-opioid-label-against-kratom-consumers/#380f32b54536

To quote one paragraph:
When the Drug Enforcement Agency announced plans in 2016 to add the two major kratom components to the most-restrictive Schedule I of U.S controlled substances–the classification for drugs with no medical utility and high abuse potential–the general public and members of Congress objected so vigorously that the agency rescinded its plan. In a subsequent comment period, the DEA received 23,000 comments with 99% voicing positive views on the herb.

---

Have heard this song and dance before F*ckin hypocrits!!

Can you think of any other legal drugs with with "no medical utility and high abuse potential"!???


Smoke up Johnny! Have another shot!
victor809 Offline
#54 Posted: Fri, Feb 9 2018, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Sometimes I can't tell what you're trying to argue for.

Are you suggesting we should make nicotine and alcohol illegal? Because then you may want to chat with Matties smoke-nazi woman.
HuckFinn Offline
#55 Posted: Fri, Feb 9 2018, 3:32 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
The DEA just walked back its decision to temporarily label 'kratom' as a schedule 1 drug alongside heroin and other highly addictive opioids.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/health-science/what-is-kratom-and-is-it-dangerous/2016/10/12/7f651976-7c4f-11e6-8064-c1ddc8a724bb_video.html?utm_term=.2233f4c9efe4
bgz Offline
#56 Posted: Fri, Feb 9 2018, 6:34 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Ooo, looking like the FDA was trying to get paid... Pesky citizens and mountain hippies lol.
cacman Offline
#57 Posted: Fri, Feb 9 2018, 7:26 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
victor809 wrote:
Sometimes I can't tell what you're trying to argue for.

Are you suggesting we should make nicotine and alcohol illegal? Because then you may want to chat with Matties smoke-nazi woman.

Simply pointing out the hypocrisy of the FDA and guberment for making natural plants illegal without actually doing the scientific research, while at the same time accepting the use of other substances which cause great harm, Not to mention allowing big pharma to bribe/pay doctors to prescribe their chemical drugs that cause even greater harm, as in opiod crisis. It's blatantly clear the FDA only cares about putting money in theirs and big pharma's pocket.

I said it before, the FDA and big pharma do not want people growing their own natural remedies or meds.

The coco leaf is another prime example.


You can make your own beer and wine, but they'll screw you to the wall for distilling your own booze, all because of tax money.

Guberment hypocrisy in some of it's finest forms. Bastids. What a racket.
victor809 Offline
#58 Posted: Fri, Feb 9 2018, 10:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You're kinda ranging across a whole lot of different government agencies here.

I mean... the FDA isn't scheduling drugs... the DEA is... but you are saying the FDA is doing it to keep people from growing their own... which I haven't seen any evidence that it's true.

And I honestly doubt if you grew anything for your own personal use only anyone would notice. Yes it's illegal but that's not the people they are trying to get... now you start giving it to your neighbors and we have a public safety issue, as nothing you are distributing is properly labeled.
cacman Offline
#59 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 2:44 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
FDA Releases Kratom Death Data, Undermines Its Own Claims About Drug’s Deadly Harms
The cases include a suicide and a drug overdose victim who tested positive for nine different substances.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kratom-deaths-fda_us_5a7a3549e4b07af4e81eda8b
cacman Offline
#60 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 3:01 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
The DEA (drug enforcement) schedules drugs based on FDA and federal guberment recommendations.

Distribution whether gift or sale of any Schedule 1 narcotic (including MJ) in any amount is a crime. Basically the bigger the quantity the bigger the crime & time. Whether it is a "public safety issue" is dependent on the above. But the confusing part in regards to MJ is it depends on State Law. If it's legal in your State, you may be allowed to gift a small quantity. But again if it exceeds a State specified amount, it's against Federal law. Are you confused yet?



Here Vic, read this:

The Healing of America
A global quest for better, cheaper, and fairer health care.
by T.R. Reid
bs_kwaj Offline
#61 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 6:14 AM EST
Joined: 02-13-2006
Posts: 5,214

Just say 'No' to drugs.

Beer
jjanecka Offline
#62 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 7:40 AM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Anyone who launches a personal crusade against the noble tomato is an enemy of mine.

I agree with Vic homeopathy needs to be outlawed. When did it come to dilution rather than making alcohol tinctures to concentrate the dosage? The stuff they pass off as science in the alternative medical world these days is downright sinful.
Speyside Offline
#63 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 9:35 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I don't think it needs to be outlawed JJ, regulated would make more sense to me. Dangerous/deadly homeopathic products should be banned.
victor809 Offline
#64 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 6:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Actually spey... homeopathy isn't really dangerous itself.

The danger is the lies. If a homeopathic "doctor" (with no degree in anything real) tells a patient that they can cure their cancer without that pesky chemo... and the patient believes them...

Well... by the time they realize they aren't getting any better it may be too late for chemo to work.

I don't know if I would say the homeopath did anything illegal here... but I wouldn't be too surprised or broken up if the patients next of kin killed them....
Speyside Offline
#65 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 9:24 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
There is some danger in homeopathy Victor. If someone isn't bright enough there can be some deadly serious interactions with prescription drugs.
DrafterX Offline
#66 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 9:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
It's a good thing model glue is still on da market.. Mellow
Speyside Offline
#67 Posted: Sat, Feb 10 2018, 11:40 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Word
cacman Offline
#68 Posted: Sun, Feb 11 2018, 3:17 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Speyside wrote:
There is some danger in homeopathy Victor. If someone isn't bright enough there can be some deadly serious interactions with prescription drugs.

There is also a danger in the abuse of over-the-counter medications.
As one example, consumers in their 20's suffering from acetaminophen misuse and overdoses requiring liver transplants. This is thw aspirin you take for a hangover from consuming too much alcohol. See the hypocrisy yet?


No MJ for JJ
No natural herbs for you.
Make natural plants illegal without scientific research.
GMO's for everyone.

Quack
cacman Offline
#69 Posted: Sun, Feb 11 2018, 3:40 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
jjanecka wrote:
Anyone who launches a personal crusade against the noble tomato is an enemy of mine..

Being Italian, I will agree to that comment. Thanks
.
Speyside Offline
#70 Posted: Sun, Feb 11 2018, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Heroin is a plant based non gmo product. How is that working out? Opium is a plant based non gmo product. How is that working out. Nightshade is a plant based non gmo product. How is that working out?
cacman Offline
#71 Posted: Sun, Feb 11 2018, 2:13 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Speyside wrote:
Heroin is a plant based non gmo product. How is that working out? Opium is a plant based non gmo product. How is that working out. Nightshade is a plant based non gmo product. How is that working out?

Do you understand what it takes to make heroin from a poppy plant? It's not like you can simply stick a syringe in the bulb and draw a dose.
You do understand there is a difference between Opiates and Opiods.

The coca leaf is another prime example.

Alcohol is made from inert organic plants. How is that working out?

Smoke up Johnny.
Speyside Offline
#72 Posted: Sun, Feb 11 2018, 2:31 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
You are really slow on the uptake.
1) Opium is the earliest form of an opiate.
2) Heroin is another form of Opium.
3) Making either is so easy a high school chemistry students could make them.

Try to be correct with your arguments. Or just shout louder alternative facts and such. Do you really think anyone will take you seriously when you are incorrect?
cacman Offline
#73 Posted: Sun, Feb 11 2018, 7:35 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
http://info.iwpharmacy.com/opiate-opioid-narcotic-whats-the-difference
Speyside Offline
#74 Posted: Mon, Feb 12 2018, 11:26 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Duh, natural, synthetic, and semi synthetic blend. You really are dense. They all function the same way. Though opioids are usually stronger. What don't you understand about they both are addictive, they both kill, and so on. You think we should do away with pharmaceutical companies? Pass, lots of people would die. Do you think period?
cacman Offline
#75 Posted: Mon, Feb 12 2018, 11:57 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Never said we should get rid of big pharma. You've obviously missed the point. A plant should not be made illegal and classified as a schedule 1 narcotic until the scientific research has been done. Just like MJ.

Tobacco and alcohol are both addictive, they both kill, and are the no 1 and 3 leading causes of death. Sugar can be addictive. The no 2 cause of death is bad nutrition and lack of exercise.

Maybe you should try thinking, and try to consider it from a different, more open perspective. It's become blatantly obvious with the opioid crisis that big pharma lies, and has no problem deceiving the public to peddle it's drugs.
Speyside Offline
#76 Posted: Mon, Feb 12 2018, 1:24 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
That statement I agree with. What I do note hear you saying is there is also an opiate crisis. That is just as serious. Big pharma needs stiffer penalties for blatant abuse. But they are so very important to our overall health.
victor809 Offline
#77 Posted: Mon, Feb 12 2018, 1:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
cacman wrote:
Never said we should get rid of big pharma. You've obviously missed the point. A plant should not be made illegal and classified as a schedule 1 narcotic until the scientific research has been done. Just like MJ.


I'm pretty sure the scientific research is what identified the chemicals bound to the opiod receptor. Not like we knew that just looking at a plant.

What you're saying is that the initial scientific research didn't give you the result you were looking for, so you think they should hold off on saying anything until we get the reseach results you want.

Their response seemed somewhat logical to me... if a bit overly cautious. Someone identified that it binds the same receptors as heroin... no one has suggested using it for medication yet... then lock it down before they have another crisis....

I don't think (could be wrong) the DEA has the funding to do extensive addiction research themselves. They are dependent on independent groups deciding to do the research on their own... so the DEA isn't going to sit back and wait until someone decides to do an extensive addiction study. They rule based on the available information.

Quote:

Tobacco and alcohol are both addictive, they both kill, and are the no 1 and 3 leading causes of death. Sugar can be addictive. The no 2 cause of death is bad nutrition and lack of exercise.

Maybe you should try thinking, and try to consider it from a different, more open perspective. It's become blatantly obvious with the opioid crisis that big pharma lies, and has no problem deceiving the public to peddle it's drugs.


Your choice to keep mixing in other compounds is frustrating because their comparison makes no sense.
First off, I can't stand people who claim sugar is addictive. I had a fat cousin who decided she needed to go to AA for her sugar addiction. Just like you, she's a nanny-stater who wants the government to take care of her.

And none of these compounds has a high likelihood of killing you immediately in most usage situations. It may kill you... but it'll be after you've lived a reasonable life. Heroin has a decent chance of killing you significantly earlier.
cacman Offline
#78 Posted: Mon, Feb 12 2018, 1:38 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
victor809 wrote:
IJust like you, she's a nanny-stater who wants the government to take care of her.

If you think I want or trust the guberment to take care of me, then you sir are gravely mistaken again.
bgz Offline
#79 Posted: Mon, Feb 12 2018, 2:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Told you this was a battle.
teedubbya Offline
#80 Posted: Mon, Feb 12 2018, 2:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I blame massengil.
victor809 Offline
#81 Posted: Mon, Feb 12 2018, 2:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
cacman wrote:
If you think I want or trust the guberment to take care of me, then you sir are gravely mistaken again.


I dunno man... you're upset the government lets us have as much sugar and tobacco as we want... you want the government to fix the price of epi-pens....

starting to smell a lot like a nanny state.
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