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School shooting in Fl
frankj1 Offline
#151 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
and the weird custodians
teedubbya Offline
#152 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The ones who have to throw sawdust on puke?
jjanecka Offline
#153 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Really and truthfully every school should have a small armory and not only faculty members but kids should have to undergo mandatory firearm safety classes. Give the kids a chance to have hands on an unloaded pistol/rifle, How to own/operate, it would do a lot to foster respect for firearms and knowledge to help prevent incidents.
frankj1 Offline
#154 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
prevention seems to be more legend than fact, romanticized by believers.

J- you know I say keep your guns, but stop pushing the movie...you guys have told it so often you believe your own story.

it gives you guys a feeling of comfort, cool.

but as I posted top paulk, I'm aware of some heart warming stories of home invaders crapping in their pants, but no massive shootings have been prevented.

have your gun, have your fun (it is fun, I do know that), but get over the hero-in-waiting myth. You'll be one of the first recipients of a cop's bullet if you start saving everyone in the movie theater or at the mall.
DrafterX Offline
#155 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
So it turns out a Deputy showed up but didn't enter the building... He resigned.. cops are peoples too but damn... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#156 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Old news I guess... I should pay more attention... Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#157 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
teedubbya wrote:
I say we arm resource officers too.


And Freshmen
DrafterX Offline
#158 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Puppy-dogs with laser eyes... Mellow
gummy jones Offline
#159 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
I know people are emotional and especially kids. But all this protesting the nra for killing their friends but none of them setting up a protest or vigil outside of the prison where the vermin is being kept has me confused.

I haven't seen every interview but you know our society is messed up when most people talk about the troubled teen as if he had no choice and the evil gun as if it used him.
teedubbya Offline
#160 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I’ve not seen anyone say he had no choice but I haven’t been watching much tv.

I also suspect people may show up at his sentencing. They usually do. That’s when you make an impact.

For now he’s being held and I’m not sure what action you would be asking the prison officials for by protesting at the jail.

They do wa t action from legislators and to shine some light on the NRA.

You can disagree with them but these kids are smart and well composed. I wouldn’t dismiss them as emotional although they clearly are. I’m amazed how composed they are after their experience. I think the NRA is actually more nervous than usual.

Not much will happen as a result though is my guess. The playbook is set and the nra hot chick was clear about it. Attack the fbi, attack the press, minimize the kids as kids, equate a marlin model 60 to an at-15 and move on.
DrafterX Offline
#161 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
The NRA has a hot chick..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#162 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think Dana Loesch is hot.
cacman Offline
#163 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
teedubbya wrote:
but these kids are smart and well composed.

"well-prepared and scripted" would probably be a better statement to describe them as pawns.
victor809 Offline
#164 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I would give them more credit than that. Would you be composed just a couple days after going through what they went through? Hell, one started her question with "I was shot twice...."
Even the accusation that they are "prepared and scripted" requires that they have a lot of information memorized, as they spoke a great deal during the one conference I saw.

You can't even get our f%$ktard of a president to stay on script, and no one has shot him
gummy jones Offline
#165 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Much of this is scripted. I've watched first hand interviews (with the kids) that literally stated as much. They have faced unbelievable physical and psychological strife the past 2 weeks. They deserve a lot of credit and sympathy but let's not forget that 13-20 year olds aren't classically known for their rationality. unfortunately they are now pawns in the money and partisan games.

Crying white folks drive ratings. Black moms (unless it involves a white cop) not so much. Sad.

That cnn "town hall" (shouting mob) was all the evidence needed. Awaiting the cnn Chicago town hall...
teedubbya Offline
#166 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
They were not scripted or pawns any more than the verbiage you are using which is almost word for word from some right wing news sources I read as well as the NRA verbiage.

I respect the hell out of these kids regardless of politics. You don't have to agree with them but to diminish them and smear them is disgusting in my opinion.... not to mention the continuation of fake news by the real definition.
frankj1 Offline
#167 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
gummy jones wrote:
Much of this is scripted. I've watched first hand interviews (with the kids) that literally stated as much. They have faced unbelievable physical and psychological strife the past 2 weeks. They deserve a lot of credit and sympathy but let's not forget that 13-20 year olds aren't classically known for their rationality. unfortunately they are now pawns in the money and partisan games.

Crying white folks drive ratings. Black moms (unless it involves a white cop) not so much. Sad.

That cnn "town hall" (shouting mob) was all the evidence needed. Awaiting the cnn Chicago town hall...

one week. not two.
so in real time maybe two days to get scripted?...kind of reactionary, protective, defensive, nasty way to describe the behavior of the victim survivors...unless one works for Wayne Lapierre.
teedubbya Offline
#168 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
frankj1 wrote:
one week. not two.
so in real time maybe two days to get scripted?...kind of reactionary, protective, defensive, nasty way to describe the behavior of the victim survivors...unless one works for Wayne Lapierre.



Frank its the talking point I've been seeing as of late. There was a kid that suggested it was the case. His parents wouldn't let him participate in the town hall. CNN invited him on the next day to give him time. his parents declined (I might too if I was them, or any of them....not judging).

But it wasn't scripted and at times they had no control over it. It was a delicate situation.

This is a raw community and raw situation.

I find that particular talking point disgusting and cheap but some are comfortable with it. I suspect some believe it, but wont put effort in to knowing the truth, whatever that is.

I think usually the easiest path is likely the truth. I find it hard to believe these kids were scripted immediately to say the things they think. I also find it hard to believe the apparatus was there, prepared...waiting for a tragedy. This strikes me as organic raw emotions. I don't even particularly think some of it is well thought out or logical. I disagree with some, and cringed at some of it in the town hall as inappropriate.... then remembered where they were comming from and their age.

I disagree with much of the message, and someone some day may find a person that did something that proves something they want it to prove thus dimminishing everything in their mind..... I don't buy the smear and the scripted crap. I just dont.
gummy jones Offline
#169 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Suggesting there are lobbyists and special interest groups behind the scenes seemed to hit a nerve. It's certainly true on both sides. Unfortunately the kids are pawns against their will.

As for scripting being a "talking point" it's just not the case. Cnn was shoveling debate questions to hilary before the event. You don't think they would do all they could to frame the faux debate on their own turf?

One of the heroic kids was interviewed last night and stated point blank that cnn asked him to write a speech for the event and submit it ahead of time. After reading it they then decided instead to have him submit questions. Then they changed it to one question that they wrote for him and he felt it was dishonest and decided not to go. that all happened over 4 days. Watched it with my own eyes last night.

The media is savage.
teedubbya Offline
#170 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
gummy jones wrote:
Suggesting there are lobbyists and special interest groups behind the scenes seemed to hit a nerve. It's certainly true on both sides. Unfortunately the kids are pawns against their will.

As for scripting being a "talking point" it's just not the case. Cnn was shoveling debate questions to hilary before the event. You don't think they would do all they could to frame the faux debate on their own turf?

One of the heroic kids was interviewed last night and stated point blank that cnn asked him to write a speech for the event and submit it ahead of time. After reading it they then decided instead to have him submit questions. Then they changed it to one question that they wrote for him and he felt it was dishonest and decided not to go. that all happened over 4 days. Watched it with my own eyes last night.

The media is savage.



That's the kid I was talking about and the one driving the narrative (not him, a comment he made and some extrapolated and ran with because they thought it fit their narrative) I watched it too. But it's not the full story and he was offered time to convey his message on CNN, even if it was anti CNN (which it wasn't). I think its an open invite.

Hillary has nothing to do with this and your paraphrasing of that event and inclusion of hillary as a whole is telling. Attack the press is part of the approach here.

There are lobbyists and special interest groups all over all the time. The NRA being one of them. You didn't hit a nerve, I just don't agree and think its unfair to these kids. I think it's nonsense, and I don't think they are pawns against their will. That diminishes them and is condescending. I can disagree and respect them, and you. I disagree with much of what they are saying. I respect and admire them though.

We just disagree, with respect.
tailgater Offline
#171 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
Yea it’s not like he took communion without your permission and stuff


LOL!
cacman Offline
#172 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
teedubbya wrote:
They were not scripted or pawns any more than the verbiage you are using which is almost word for word from some right wing news sources I read as well as the NRA verbiage.

That's rich. The "kids" have most certainly been used as pawns in this incident, the last incident, the incident before that, and the incident before that. As many have already suggested it appears they where prepared and "scripted" for press conferences and town halls.

I have purposely avoided the media stories on this subject because of the bulls*t anti-gun knee-jerk rhetoric. I've simply stated my opinions. But funny how your offended by the thought it might be "word for word from some right wing news sources and the NRA" but overlook the "for the good of the children" pull on everyone's heart strings and the thought these kids have been "prepared" for public statements (even if by their parents).

Remember this is the same generation that brought you the "Pod Challenge" and the "No Lackin Challenge".
http://www.cigarbid.com/...hallenge-was-ridiculous

I do feel sorry for the victims. But as I said before put blame where blame is due. Don't cry on my shoulder about what some deranged person did while taking my rights away.

Blame the armed resource officer for sitting on his azz and not doing a damn thing to save a single life.

Blame the School System and Federal guberment for not allowing teachers the right to protect themselves, or their students.

Blame the System for ignoring the numerous warning signs this deranged kid made known, and was still allowed to purchase firearms.

Save me "For the sake of the children" whining as an excuse to strip law-abiding citizens of their rights. These kids have most certainly been used as pawns by the media (just like last time), and that's exactly why I have refused to watch almost all media coverage on this event. The little I have seen has been downright pathetic.

Is there nothing else going on for the media to cover other than 24hr rhetoric over guns? The gun did not commit the crime.
frankj1 Offline
#173 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
gummy jones wrote:
Suggesting there are lobbyists and special interest groups behind the scenes seemed to hit a nerve. It's certainly true on both sides. Unfortunately the kids are pawns against their will.

no, they were targets against their will.
Phil222 Offline
#174 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
gummy jones wrote:
Crying white folks drive ratings. Black moms (unless it involves a white cop) not so much. Sad.

That cnn "town hall" (shouting mob) was all the evidence needed. Awaiting the cnn Chicago town hall...


My feelings exactly. Funny how we didn't have a drug problem in this country either until it hit the suburbs...
HuckFinn Offline
#175 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
cacman wrote:


Is there nothing else going on for the media to cover other than 24hr rhetoric over guns? The gun did not commit the crime.


From what I've read these kids were shot. With a gun.

I've always grappled with, but respected the 'guns don't kill people, people do' point of view but I think it's time to retire it.
Believing that crazy people with easy access to crazy guns isn't a formula for more of the same insanity is sticking your head in the sand. Let's try something else, something we haven't tried.

I'm not looking to ruffle feathers, but something that addresses both guns AND mental illness has a better chance of solving school shootings.

Deflective rhetoric, no matter how cleverly contrived, ain't working for me anymore.
paulkeck Offline
#176 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
HuckFinn wrote:
From what I've read these kids were shot. With a gun.

I've always grappled with, but respected the 'guns don't kill people, people do' point of view but I think it's time to retire it.
Believing that crazy people with easy access to crazy guns isn't a formula for more of the same insanity is sticking your head in the sand. Let's try something else, something we haven't tried.

I'm not looking to ruffle feathers, but something that addresses both guns AND mental illness has a better chance of solving school shootings.

Deflective rhetoric, no matter how cleverly contrived, ain't working for me anymore.

Well until you can figure out how to magicly make every single weapon in the world to disapear....banning the big bad AR15 isn't going to do anything, maybe spend more money on the mental health issue and less time trying to ban guns and we might actually get somewhere in this Country
DrafterX Offline
#177 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Something Trump is talking about... reopening institutions...Sounds like it's starting in New York.. Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#178 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Phil222 wrote:
My feelings exactly. Funny how we didn't have a drug problem in this country either until it hit the suburbs...

I'm not sure you're really in agreement...
cacman Offline
#179 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Two Miramar SWAT officers suspended for heading to Parkland massacre

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla._When a gunman started shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, two Miramar SWAT team members did what comes naturally: They went to help.

Now they've been suspended for it.

The officers did not have permission to respond to the shooting at Parkland on Feb. 14, when 17 people were killed.

And that created an officer safety issue and left them unaccountable for their actions, according to their police department.

But their union reacted differently.

"While it may have been a violation of policy to not notify their supervisors that they were going there, their intentions were brave and heroic, I think," Broward County PBA President Jeff Marano said Wednesday.

Full Story: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/two-miramar-swat-officers-suspended-for-heading-to-parkland-massacre/ar-BBK0azn
Phil222 Offline
#180 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
frankj1 wrote:
I'm not sure you're really in agreement...


I think we agreed enough for me to use his words to make my point...Cool
delta1 Offline
#181 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Florida passed new gun laws today.

Kids win...

NRA lost...
ZRX1200 Offline
#182 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
^ provocative.

You actually believe that?

It is unconstitutional and will be overturned.
Phil222 Offline
#183 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I don't agree with all of the bill, but it does have some good aspects to it. I feel like fundng for mental healthcare and more school security is a step in the right direction. But like Z pointed out, the part about raising the age limit could possibly be overturned, so the NRA hasn't lost yet...

Plus there is the 67 million in the bill that arms and trains teachers...that is a NRA win.
teedubbya Offline
#184 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It will be interesting to see the NRAs argument. I’m not exactly sure why 21 is an issue legally.
teedubbya Offline
#185 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think the handgun age is 21 here. Not sure really.
cacman Offline
#186 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Teachers may now exercise their constitutional right to carry a gun and protect themselves at their place of employment.

While an 18yr old can go to war armed with an automatic weapon and a vote, but can't legally purchase a gun??? WTF?

At least there was some recognition for further mental health funding. Free Ritalin for all!
HuckFinn Offline
#187 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
jjanecka wrote:
Really and truthfully every school should have a small armory and not only faculty members but kids should have to undergo mandatory firearm safety classes. Give the kids a chance to have hands on an unloaded pistol/rifle, How to own/operate, it would do a lot to foster respect for firearms and knowledge to help prevent incidents.

The problem with that is you're giving specific intel to the next shooter also.
Shooters have always been part of the student body.
cacman Offline
#188 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
^^^ Many schools actually did teach firearm safety as part of the curriculum years ago, before the pansy-ass baby-boomers from Woodstock started to complain.
HuckFinn Offline
#189 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
cacman wrote:
^^^ Many schools actually did teach firearm safety as part of the curriculum years ago, before the pansy-ass baby-boomers from Woodstock started to complain.

Metro London cops don't carry guns. 2016 didn't see a shot fired at a criminal.
So isn't it a cultural thing? We're the new wild west. Never enough guns.

And peace and love were terrible ideas I guess?
Seem like pretty lofty ones t'me.
cacman Offline
#190 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
^^^ This isn't London. And this is far from the "Wild West".

If you praise the UK's gun laws, go live there. We kicked their ass to make this Country, and is one of the exact reasons why the 2nd amendment was written.
HuckFinn Offline
#191 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
cacman wrote:
^^^ This isn't London. And this is far from the "Wild West".

If you praise the UK's gun laws, go live there. We kicked their ass to make this Country, and is one of the exact reasons why the 2nd amendment was written.

Gotcha. If I admire something about another country , move there.
So you support everything about our American culture? Bs.

2nd amendment was drafted to protect states from fed. Not British.
cacman Offline
#192 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
2nd amendment was drafted to allow individuals to protect themselves from a tyrannical government.

The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution wrote:

Influence of the English Bill of Rights of 1689

The right to bear arms in English history is believed to have been regarded in English law as an auxiliary to the long-established natural right of self-defense, auxiliary to the natural and legally defensible rights to life.[36] The English Bill of Rights of 1689 emerged from a tempestuous period in English politics during which two issues were major sources of conflict: the authority of the King to govern without the consent of Parliament, and the role of Catholics in a country that was becoming ever more Protestant. Ultimately, the Catholic James II was overthrown in the Glorious Revolution, and his successors, the Protestants William III and Mary II, accepted the conditions that were codified in the Bill. One of the issues the Bill resolved was the authority of the King to disarm its subjects, after James II had attempted to disarm many Protestants, and had argued with Parliament over his desire to maintain a standing (or permanent) army.[37] The bill states that it is acting to restore "ancient rights" trampled upon by James II, though some have argued that the English Bill of Rights created a new right to have arms, which developed out of a duty to have arms.[38] In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court did not accept this view, remarking that the English right at the time of the passing of the English Bill of Rights was "clearly an individual right, having nothing whatsoever to do with service in the militia" and that it was a right not to be disarmed by the Crown and was not the granting of a new right to have arms.[39]

DrMaddVibe Offline
#193 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
delta1 wrote:
Florida passed new gun laws today.

Kids win...

NRA lost...



NRA has filed suit. I bet they win.

Enforce the laws on the books already.
Phil222 Offline
#194 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
cacman wrote:
2nd amendment was drafted to allow individuals to protect themselves from a tyrannical government


There are some good arguments to be made for keeping guns in the hands of citizens...overthrowing the government is not one of them.
teedubbya Offline
#195 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I just had a long conversation (about an hour ago) with the brother of one of the people killed in the Fl shooting. I won’t say which. I met him at the dog park. Very nice and reasonable man. We spoke about the NRA, potential changes and what would and wouldn’t work. He taught me a few things. I’m better for that conversation and glad I listened instead of doing all the talking and spewing my own iron clad dogma.

I walked in to the conversation by not knowing who he was and asking if he knew any good gun shops or pawn shops with guns in the area. He gave me some and we talked quite a bit about guns and gun laws before he told me who he was. I felt like a dumb ass when he told me. But I’m glad it happened.

I hope I see him there again. Next time we’ll talk BBQ or something unrelated. But I’m glad we spoke.

We will never make anything better if we all dig in to our expected opinions.
delta1 Offline
#196 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
ZRX1200 wrote:
^ provocative.

You actually believe that?

It is unconstitutional and will be overturned.


it's a fact...the kids got in the faces of Florida's politicians and demanded that they do something to make schools safer...The NRA has always opposed the stuff in the bill that restricts gun ownership. Florida now has more gun laws.

Florida would never have passed a bill like this without the loud and public screaming by the kids...didn't do anything after Orlando happened, after Ft. Lauderdale, after Hialeah...
teedubbya Offline
#197 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It’s interesting to me the age thing is the NRAs take on a lost right. They might have an issue with the hand gun age laws already common.


I wasn’t aware of all the conspiracy crap surrounding the Florida shooting until I talked to my new friend this morning.

Disgusting.
cacman Offline
#198 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
teedubbya wrote:
I wasn’t aware of all the conspiracy crap surrounding the Florida shooting until I talked to my new friend this morning.

Disgusting.

Imagine that? Conspiracy theories surrounding the Florida shooting.

Like maybe, just maybe, the guberment allowed it to happen to further their gun control agenda?

Sounds almost as crazy as the guberment selling guns or cocaine to fund their dirty little illegal wars.

Would love to hear the many other theories.
teedubbya Offline
#199 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That’s one of them and anyone that believes that is a complete idiot.
cacman Offline
#200 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
^^^ Never said I believed it. But it wouldn't surprise me either. After all, the guberment knows what's best for us.
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