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Last post 6 years ago by DrafterX. 682 replies replies.
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National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934
DrafterX Offline
#651 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
What new law woulda stopped the shooting..?? If he wasn't of age do you think he wouldn't have been able to acquire a gun..?? Maybe he woulda broke into a home and stole one.. or maybe just used his car to kill.. not sure why that's so hard for some of you to figure out.. he broke laws.. do you think he woulda cared about another one..?? Mellow
paulkeck Offline
#652 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
DrafterX wrote:
What new law woulda stopped the shooting..?? If he wasn't of age do you think he wouldn't have been able to acquire a gun..?? Maybe he woulda broke into a home and stole one.. or maybe just used his car to kill.. not sure why that's so hard for some of you to figure out.. he broke laws.. do you think he woulda cared about another one..?? Mellow

Exactly
HuckFinn Offline
#653 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
What new law woulda stopped the shooting..?? If he wasn't of age do you think he wouldn't have been able to acquire a gun..?? Maybe he woulda broke into a home and stole one.. or maybe just used his car to kill.. not sure why that's so hard for some of you to figure out.. he broke laws.. do you think he woulda cared about another one..?? Mellow

It might have made it harder for him. Maybe places where he would've slipped up.
But I agree, it's not the solution by itself.
That you don't see it as even a part of the equation is hard for me to understand.
DrafterX Offline
#654 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
The list of failures by people and agencies is long on this guy... New laws won't change that.. Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#655 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
The list of failures by people and agencies is long on this guy... New laws won't change that.. Mellow

So, using your model, change/improve everything we're doing to prevent shootings but leave guns outta the equation?
paulkeck Offline
#656 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Exactly
teedubbya Offline
#657 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Not exactly. He forgot the add more guns part.
delta1 Offline
#658 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
After the Las Vegas shooting and the subsequent response in this country, I gave up on any federal gun safety regulations being passed. I believed it was futile, and that we as a nation, have accepted mass shootings as an acceptable way of life in exchange for everyone being able to own the kind of guns that mass murderers use to kill many people in a short period of time.

The hardened pro-gun crowd on the right, pushed by the NRA, has made it impossible to add any new gun safety law...and with the many millions of semi-auto rifles and high capacity magazines already in private circulation throughout the country, the battle is lost...unless we can do something to dramatically reduce the number of semi-auto rifles and high cap mags on the streets...some states have enacted such laws (CA and CONN) and it'll take awhile to see if those regs have a positive impact on reducing the number of people killed in "mass" shootings.

If those states do show a reduction in numbers of mass shooting victims, that may reverse the idea that new gun safety laws are impossible to pass. But any effort will be a hard, tough and determined slog...in the face of determined pushback by the NRA and its supporters. It'll require a larger majority of Americans who are motivated to vote for NRA resistant candidates, who are determined to make that a political priority. It'll also need funding for a govt. buy-back program...we have to reimburse people if their weapons are no longer legal...for the prohibition to stand any hope of passage...


That determination isn't here yet...but maybe the outpouring of protest by high-school kids in various parts of the country will take root...if it does, it'll be a long battle... and will likely have to start at the state level...one state at a time...
paulkeck Offline
#659 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Wrong fight...
delta1 Offline
#660 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
prolly so, but we'll see if the numbers in CA and CN (and a few others) show any significant change after those states passed laws restricting ownership of semi-auto rifles and high cap mags. I'm not optimistic that there will be a renewal of the federal assault weapons ban that was in place from 1994 to 2004.

Maybe the high school kids who are speaking up, who are the future leaders of this country, will band together to change the dynamics of mass shootings in the US...

in the meantime, the effort may just produce more angry and outraged owners of semi-auto rifles with high cap mags, driving some over the edge... and the number of mass shootings will go up...
DrafterX Offline
#661 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I've had that thought also... They will be in charge someday.. but they don't speak for all of the students.. Mellow
paulkeck Offline
#662 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
delta1 wrote:
prolly so, but we'll see if the numbers in CA and CN (and a few others) show any significant change after those states passed laws restricting ownership of semi-auto rifles and high cap mags. I'm not optimistic that there will be a renewal of the federal assault weapons ban that was in place from 1994 to 2004.

Maybe the high school kids who are speaking up, who are the future leaders of this country, will band together to change the dynamics of mass shootings in the US...

in the meantime, the effort may just produce more angry and outraged owners of semi-auto rifles with high cap mags, driving some over the edge... and the number of mass shootings will go up...

The sad part about this and it's going to sound bad but mass shooting make up how many deaths in California? Yet they have one of the highest murder rates in the US....but all those bans are working. Someone pull the numbers of school mass murders in California and get the numbers them get the numbers of murders in California
delta1 Offline
#663 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Yah...the study has to be relevant...maybe the better number would be deaths that result from semi-auto rifles pre-ban vs post ban...
teedubbya Offline
#664 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I remember a study showing that as the number of churches in any given area grows so does violent crime. it was flawed of course but it proved it.
paulkeck Offline
#665 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
delta1 wrote:
Yah...the study has to be relevant...maybe the better number would be deaths that result from semi-auto rifles pre-ban vs post ban...

Well rifles period don't account for even 10% of the murders in Cali so That would be another flawed study
delta1 Offline
#666 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
If a particular type of weapon is proven to be a more deadly threat to the safety of the public, shouldn't we consider making them illegal? We do that with all sorts of other stuff...


and mass murders are different than the usual homicide...
paulkeck Offline
#667 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
delta1 wrote:
If a particular type of weapon is proven to be a more deadly threat to the safety of the public, shouldn't we consider making them illegal? We do that with all sorts of other stuff...


and mass murders are different than the usual homicide...

But do we? Drinking and driving is a lot higher on the death count list. Do we outlaw bars? Would that not stop a significant number of dui related deaths? In not trying to argue But why is it just the weapons? Why not try and stop all murders?
teedubbya Offline
#668 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I dunno. I could drink when I was 18 and the BAL was .1 Its now 21 and .08 and duis have much more stigma than they used to .... even in here. And the rates have come down. Folks are using that to drive towards .04 around here. So if zero is the goal and anything short is failure that is one thing. But if RIR is the goal (reduction in rate) it has been effective.

Using total numbers is flawed (other than showing the potential impact of RIR


cars are way more regulated and licensed than guns too. I don't want to register and license my guns and walk around with a bar code cops can scan to see what I have.
delta1 Offline
#669 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
we do..there are automatic guns, machine guns, that we can't own...poisons and toxic stuff that used to be legal, explosives and chemicals that can be combined with others to make explosives... but now regulated...all in the name of the greater good...

sometimes we have to focus on a specific problem and not get overwhelmed...it's like being on a slowly sinking ship, but your bed is on fire and your door is stuck...
paulkeck Offline
#670 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
delta1 wrote:
we do..there are automatic guns, machine guns, that we can't own...poisons and toxic stuff that used to be legal, explosives and chemicals that can be combined with others to make explosives... but now regulated...all in the name of the greater good...

sometimes we have to focus on a specific problem and not get overwhelmed...it's like being on a slowly sinking ship, but your bed is on fire and your door is stuck...


I hear you..I just think the media and government like usual are making us focus on the wrong issue. That's all I'm saying.
DrafterX Offline
#671 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Like I said earlier, if people would have done their jobs correctly this particular shooting may not have happened... Orlando and Vegas is a whole different story tho... Sometimes hate just can't be stopped.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#672 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Paul you do make a good point with the Patriot act. We overreacted there and gave up rights and way of life for faux safety. I do fear an over reaction here as well. When I say I respect the kids that doesn't mean I agree with what they say. I do respect them though.

I do fear legislating through emotion. Our founding fathers built in safeguards for this. Things to slow things down to insure against the political whims of the moment. Both parties are guilty of trying to get around this though. Lately I've seen it more from the republicans than democrats but it will turn around and has been the reverse in the past.

We need reasonable dialog but when the other side is the enemy, to the point some in here think russians are less of an enemy than democrats, then there is really no discussion.
teedubbya Offline
#673 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
Like I said earlier, if people would have done their jobs correctly this particular shooting may not have happened... Orlando and Vegas is a whole different story tho... Sometimes hate just can't be stopped.. Mellow



I agree with you on hate. It is interesting there hasn't been much info on this guys background in that regard.

elimination may not be possible but that doesn't mean you can't try and combine that with things that could minimize the damage in the event you or the system fails. It's not a reason to do nothing.
paulkeck Offline
#674 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
Paul you do make a good point with the Patriot act. We overreacted there and gave up rights and way of life for safety. I do fear an over reaction here as well. When I say I respect the kids that doesn't mean I agree with what they say. I do respect them though.

I do fear legislating through emotion. Our founding fathers built in safeguards for this. Things to slow things down to insure against the political whims of the moment. Both parties are guilty of trying to get around this though. Lately I've seen it more from the republicans than democrats but it will turn around and has been the reverse in the past.

We need reasonable dialog but when the other side is the enemy, to the point some in here think russians are less of an enemy than democrats, then there is really no discussion.

I say this with all seriousness and truly believe it...lol i will probably be labeled but I have a problem with our government period....all of them! Dems....Reps...Hell Even the no namers! They all work for one group and it sure as sh1t isn't the American people...it's called big busness or the 1 percenters
tailgater Offline
#675 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
Tell that to the parents of the dead kids.

.


Ahhh.
I wish ALL laws were based on emotions.


DrafterX Offline
#676 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Any laws that woulda been enacted after Columbine wouldn't have mattered to any of the other school kid killers... And I still think the Basket Ball Dairies started it all.. thank Hollywood... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#677 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
paulkeck wrote:
I say this with all seriousnes s and truly believe it...lol i will probably be labeled but I have a problem with our government period....all of them! Dems....Reps...Hell Even the no namers! They all work for one group and it sure as sh1t isn't the American people...it's called big busness or the 1 percenters



You are not labeled with me. I think that is healthy skepticism..

I posted awhile back about my wife letting a deputy sheriff in to our hose while I was sleeping. he was inquiring about an unidentified girl in the neighborhood knocking on doors etc. Long story but someone thought they saw her come into our house.

I was pissed my wife let him in the house, particularly without me knowing. I don't trust them at all and nothing good can come of letting them in your home, even if you are doing no wrong. My experience has told me the they are my friend thing is overrated.

That said I respect them and am glad they are around. i'd just prefer not to engage because I do not trust them.
paulkeck Offline
#678 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
You are not labeled with me. I think that is healthy skepticism..

I posted awhile back about my wife letting a deputy sheriff in to our hose while I was sleeping. he was inquiring about an unidentified girl in the neighborhood knocking on doors etc. Long story but someone thought they saw her come into our house.

I was pissed my wife let him in the house, particularly without me knowing. I don't trust them at all and nothing good can come of letting them in your home, even if you are doing no wrong. My experience has told me the they are my friend thing is overrated.

That said I respect them and am glad they are around. i'd just prefer not to engage because I do not trust them.

Yes Sir!
teedubbya Offline
#679 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
Any laws that woulda been enacted after Columbine wouldn't have mattered to any of the other school kid killers... And I still think the Basket Ball Dairies started it all.. thank Hollywood... Mellow



I'm not sure. Not the laws, but the tactical approach has totally changed because of colombine and continues to evolve. the concept of immediate engagement came out of that. The resource office apparent missed that memo.
paulkeck Offline
#680 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
DrafterX wrote:
Any laws that woulda been enacted after Columbine wouldn't have mattered to any of the other school kid killers... And I still think the Basket Ball Dairies started it all.. thank Hollywood... Mellow

That and media exposure and oh man I can beat that high score mentality
teedubbya Offline
#681 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I heard a video caused Benghazi
DrafterX Offline
#682 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
That's what Hillary wants you to think...


Damn, you baited me...d'oh!
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