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Last post 5 years ago by DrafterX. 31 replies replies.
Self-driving Uber vehicle strikes and kills pedestrian
dstieger Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I find this to be a terribly sad and distressing story. I'm worried that getting to full-blown autonomous traffic will take a hit to the timeline. Living in an area where distance is measured in minutes and hours; where a traffic jam at midnight can have you parked on the freeway for hours.....where my 11 mile commute takes over an hour at least once a week.....removing inattentive, stupid, reckless, rude and moronic drivers from the equation will lead to dramatic reduction in accidents and commute times....I'm positive.

As to the pedestrian...she should have been in the crosswalk.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/03/19/uber-halts-autonomous-vehicle-testing-after-a-pedestrian-is-struck


by Faiz Siddiqui and Michael Laris March 19 at 3:15 PM

Uber has halted testing of its autonomous vehicles across North America, the company announced Monday, after a woman was struck and killed by one of its self-driving cars in Tempe, Ariz., Sunday night.

The moratorium on testing includes San Francisco, Phoenix, Pittsburgh and Toronto, Uber said.

It is believed to be the first fatality in any testing program involving autonomous vehicles.

The National Transportation Safety Board has opened an investigation into the crash, NTSB spokesman Eric Weiss said.

Uber issued a short statement.

“Our hearts go out to the victim’s family. We are fully cooperating with local authorities in their investigation of this incident,” a company spokeswoman said.

The vehicle was in autonomous mode at the time of the crash, though a driver was behind the wheel, Tempe police said in a statement. The crash occurred about 10 p.m. Sunday in the area of Curry Road and Mill Avenue, a busy intersection with multiple lanes in every direction.

Police said the vehicle was northbound on Curry Road when a woman, identified as 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg, crossing from the west side of street, was struck. She died at a hospital, the department said.

Missy Cummings, a robotics expert at Duke University who has been critical of the swift rollout of driverless technology across the country, said the computer-vision systems for self-driving cars are “deeply flawed” and can be “incredibly brittle,” particularly in unfamiliar circumstances.

Companies have not been required by the federal government to prove that their robotic driving systems are safe. “We’re not holding them to any standards right now,” Cummings said, arguing that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration should provide real supervision.

Federal transportation officials have relied on voluntary safety reporting to oversee the burgeoning industry, which has emphasized the life-saving potential of the technology in arguing against government mandates.

Arizona has aggressively courted driverless tech firms, based largely on its light regulatory touch. That approach has consequences, Cummings said. “If you’re going take that first step out, then you’re also going to be [the] first entity to have to suffer these kinds of issues,” she said.

Driverless technology firms generally say they painstakingly map an area digitally before running their vehicles there, so that the vehicles essentially have banked information about the surroundings that can be compared on the fly to what cameras and sensors are picking up at any moment.

The victim was “walking outside of the crosswalk” and was crossing a road at about 10 p.m. when she was struck, the Tempe police said.

“Just because you map an area doesn’t mean your computer system is necessarily going to pick up a pedestrian, particularly one that wasn’t in a cross walk,” Cummings said.

Another industry-wide issue is to what extent autonomous vehicles can deal with unanticipated problems.

“The car cameras, the vision systems, they don’t perform inductively, meaning they can’t guess about the appearance of someone in a particular place and time,” Cummings said. “Pedestrians get hit by human drivers all the time for similar reasons,” though the exact cause of this crash remains unclear, she said.

Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi said in a tweet that the company was working to learn what went wrong.

“Some incredibly sad news out of Arizona,” he said. “We’re thinking of the victim’s family as we work with local law enforcement to understand what happened.”

A spokesman for Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey (R), whose administration has provided a more permissive regulatory environment for deploying driverless cars than in states such as California, said “our hearts go out to the victim involved.”

“Safety is our top priority,” said spokesman Patrick Ptak, who did not address a question on whether the death might change anything about the state’s policies.
Ptak said Ducey’s “latest executive order provides enhanced enforcement measures and clarity on responsibility in these accidents.”
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Was she cute..?? Huh
dstieger Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
see 4 urself....a little more info here, too

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/elaine-herzberg-killed-uber-self-driving/
deadeyedick Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,952
Had to happen sooner or later. I'll bet the odds are very slim compared to regular driver deaths per mile. I don't see the benefit of having a safety driver sitting there as an accident most likely is going to happen before he can take charge anyway.
Gene363 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,660
Automated or not, I'm guessing someone was texting.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/elaine-herzberg-killed-uber-self-driving/

Quote:
Although the Uber that hit Herzberg was in Autonomous mode, this doesn’t mean the car was completely self-driving with no one inside. A driver was behind the wheel and could have taken control of the car at any time, Slate reported.


I must agree with one comment on the post. "In the long-run we will be much safer with self-driving cars"
Gene363 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,660
deadeyedick wrote:
Had to happen sooner or later. I'll bet the odds are very slim compared to regular driver deaths per mile. I don't see the benefit of having a safety driver sitting there as an accident most likely is going to happen before he can take charge anyway.


Not alway, I took driver safety training in HS, the teacher had just an auxiliary brake pedal. I know he prevented two accidents and saved the life of a pedestrian with that brake pedal.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
How long before a terrorist utilizes the self-driving function to send an unmanned vehicle full of explosives into a building or crowd of people?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I'm gonna say 3 years or less...
deadeyedick Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,952
Shhh

Gonna need another FBI do not allow list on top of do not rent Home Depot trucks to terrorists, etc, etc.
itsawaldo Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 09-10-2006
Posts: 4,221
Wouldn't a self driving UBER be a TAXI?

Kind of ruins the idea that someone could earn some extra cash as an UBER driver.
Abrignac Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,216
Maybe, just maybe we need slow technology down to a responsible level. Certain things are inherently a bad idea. Self driving vehicles would rank very near the top. Imagine the carnage that could be caused by a loaded self-driving semi tractor/trailer during rush hour.
MACS Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
Can't make an omelette without running a few people over.

Or something.
teedubbya Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Abrignac wrote:
Maybe, just maybe we need slow technology down to a responsible level. Certain things are inherently a bad idea. Self driving vehicles would rank very near the top. Imagine the carnage that could be caused by a loaded self-driving semi tractor/trailer during rush hour.



Or a truck driver having a seizure.

I'll take tech with byzantine fault tolerance built in over humans.
JadeRose Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
Abrignac wrote:
Maybe, just maybe we need slow technology down to a responsible level. Certain things are inherently a bad idea. Self driving vehicles would rank very near the top. Imagine the carnage that could be caused by a loaded self-driving semi tractor/trailer during rush hour.




This. I've worked in Engineering and R&D for 30 years now and I know enough about it to know that there is NO F*CKING WAY I would sit in a moving driverless car. No way, no how. I know how easily this stuff can be corrupted and how bad it can go WHEN it goes bad. People die. Just like today. This technology is NOWHERE near maturity.
danmdevries Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,115
dstieger wrote:
I find this to be a terribly sad and distressing story. I'm worried that getting to full-blown autonomous traffic will take a hit to the timeline. Living in an area where distance is measured in minutes and hours; where a traffic jam at midnight can have you parked on the freeway for hours.....where my 11 mile commute takes over an hour at least once a week.....removing inattentive, stupid, reckless, rude and moronic drivers from the equation will lead to dramatic reduction in accidents and commute times....I'm positive.



I get strange looks when I refer to distance as time outside NW Indiana.

My 9 mile commute is typically 40 minutes but an easy hour when there's a train.
Gene363 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,660
JadeRose wrote:
This. I've worked in Engineering and R&D for 30 years now and I know enough about it to know that there is NO F*CKING WAY I would sit in a moving driverless car. No way, no how. I know how easily this stuff can be corrupted and how bad it can go WHEN it goes bad. People die. Just like today. This technology is NOWHERE near maturity.



MACS wrote:
Can't make an omelette without running a few people over.

Or something.


MACS is correct. No matter how many tests you perform some problems will not be discovered until implementation. That's not to say we should skip extensive testing and not try minimize the problems or resulting damage.
dstieger Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I can't wait. I just think that reducing accidents, narrowing follow distance and stabilizing speeds will make for such faster, better, worry free, productive commutes.

I wonder if 'moving roadways' has been condidered? Like a moving walkway at the airport -- you pull your car onto it and shut off the engine -- car starts automatically when it approaches your 'exit'.

I think I'm gonna invent it
Phil222 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
dstieger wrote:
I just think that reducing accidents, narrowing follow distance and stabilizing speeds will make for such faster, better, worry free, productive commutes.


Agreed. Hope I get to see it in my lifetime.
Gene363 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,660

If we had self driving cars we could channel road rage into Cigarbid posts.
Ewok126 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
Gene363 wrote:
If we had self driving cars we could channel road rage into Cigarbid posts.


Yeah GODDA.... Oh wait we not there yet are we, My bad.
deadeyedick Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,952
Preliminary report is the accident was probably unavoidable for the car and/or human driver to react in time. Homeless woman (with drug issues, although it is not determined that was a factor) crossing in the dark mid-street came out of shadows according to camera footage.
grmcooper Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-10-2006
Posts: 20,430
That was fast. Uber paid off the family already. That screams low life family to me.
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Cooper..!! Laugh


Did you see the UFO last night..?? Huh
deadeyedick Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,952
Uber is gonna drive his truck.
grmcooper Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-10-2006
Posts: 20,430
I don't drive a truck anymore. I just hire and fire the idiots that drive for me.
DrafterX Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
I could do that.. Mellow
grmcooper Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-10-2006
Posts: 20,430
No you couldn't. I change diapers all hours of the day and night. If it isn't my driver it's a customer.
victor809 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
.... But how are you gonna hire and fire self driving uber programs?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
We've all seen what he can do to a bobcat.

Uber doesn't stand a chance.
HuckFinn Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Self drivers are the future. The wonderful wonderful future.
DrafterX Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Our Grandchildren don't have a chance... Sad
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