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Migrant Caravan
frankj1 Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Should impose a million dollar fine to any company...ANY company...that uses them.

However; our politicians can't be bothered to craft a single page legislation stating that.

common ground, Doc!
If our most powerful people would stop undermining our workforce in the name of Holy Profit, no one would want to enter illegally.
tailgater Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
nailed it, bruddah.
Cape Cod vacation spots are short again this Summer.
What jobs were the immigrants stealing from us again?


Stop.
Saying.
That.

It's pure BS.

Less work visas means business owners need to actually LOOK for workers.
They're there.
The employers just don't want to compete (ie pay higher wages)


I hate when the Globe and local TV interviews these shop or restaurant owners.
The owners say they "can't find help".
The reality is the owners see minimum wage workers who are afraid to miss a day. They'll put them on 30 hours weekly to avoid benefits. And they'll hire enough of them to get through the summer.
Meanwhile, able bodied residents can't find 40 hour jobs.
Teens. College kids. Teachers with summers off.

I know that the teens are often unreliable.
But again, that comes down to paying people enough to work.

The increased minimum wage has had a bigger effect on these owners.
Funny that the Globe didn't do an article on that...
(rhetorical)



frankj1 Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Stop.
Saying.
That.

It's pure BS.

Less work visas means business owners need to actually LOOK for workers.
They're there.
The employers just don't want to compete (ie pay higher wages)


I hate when the Globe and local TV interviews these shop or restaurant owners.
The owners say they "can't find help".
The reality is the owners see minimum wage workers who are afraid to miss a day. They'll put them on 30 hours weekly to avoid benefits. And they'll hire enough of them to get through the summer.
Meanwhile, able bodied residents can't find 40 hour jobs.
Teens. College kids. Teachers with summers off.

I know that the teens are often unreliable.
But again, that comes down to paying people enough to work.

The increased minimum wage has had a bigger effect on these owners.
Funny that the Globe didn't do an article on that...
(rhetorical)




I really did know you'd say that.
tailgater Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I had just heard a news report about this within about three hours of my daughter coming home after looking for more hours for the summer.

But I'm glad I didn't disappoint you.

Herfing
frankj1 Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
I had just heard a news report about this within about three hours of my daughter coming home after looking for more hours for the summer.

But I'm glad I didn't disappoint you.

Herfing

I know you know I chuckle even as I spew venom.

I'm out of the loop, last worked as a waiter in 1977. But at that time, we were paid a couple of bucks an hour and were obliged to report tips at least to match minimum wage. But the restaurant owner was under no obligation to pay minimum wage.

If that is still true, and if it is also true for legal seasonal workers, then the employers who are complaining about staffing issues are correct, limits on imported seasonal help is the real problem, and your theory of minimum wage would not hold salt water



see what I did there?
tailgater Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Hours
Benefits

2 employees are cheaper than 1.

frankj1 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
not getting it.
what about wait staff for seasonal restaurants?
Always loved those Irish lasses at the breakfast joint in Wellfleet and the classy Bulgarian waiters at better dinner establishments on The Cape.
Must they get paid minimum or is it still the way I was paid?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
frankj1 wrote:
tough for a rabid partisan to admit, but though the economy did not "recover" in that one, first year (an impossibility btw) it indisputably was vastly improved by all measurements when he left office...and is about the same now too.

E. Warren, that unpopular Senator, spearheaded the Wall Street/financing regulations that are now being totally gutted under your guy. Straining, not draining the swamp.

Giant bailouts under Obama were merely a continuation of Bush's policies. Both take blame to nonpartisan viewers.



They kept on revising numbers lower each and every time and sometimes multiple times! Anything to try to show that his policies were having a positive effect. During the entire debacle of giving cash away to corporations I stated that we would be better off giving each and every LEGAL (see how I tied it back?? Gotta give me that one!) American one million US dollars. It would've been a better use of the money.

Warren did nothing to arrest those responsible. The only people that were arrested were small fish. Not ONE Goldman Sachs...not ONE! As for "my guy"...no...it ALL happened here...

http://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-the-warning/

The Carpetbagging Clintons.

Could've ALL been avoided...WAAAAY back when using agencies the correct way. Instead everyone still wants to defer to the Federal Reserve like they're an expert. They're the biggest bunch of thieves ever, we were warned about centralized banking by our Founding Fathers. Once again...THEY were right.

As for continuation of Bush's policies...He was going to be "different". Hope and Change. Transparent. Instead we were lied to and most were conned. There were a lot of people that weren't "bamboozled". Tried to warn everyone too. Oh well. He's the only President to make Jimmy Carter appear legitimate. I'll give the Kenyan King that.



DrafterX Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I never got my shotgun..!! Mad
tailgater Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
not getting it.
what about wait staff for seasonal restaurants?
Always loved those Irish lasses at the breakfast joint in Wellfleet and the classy Bulgarian waiters at better dinner establishments on The Cape.
Must they get paid minimum or is it still the way I was paid?


I'm not anti work visa.
I'm anti owners who complain and blame others for their fiscal woes.

If I owned a seasonal joint I would absolutely want these special visas.
Supply and demand. I can pay less and demand more because there are more people than jobs.

As a father with kids trying to find summer hours in the same job market I DON'T like the seasonal work visas.
My kids have a hard time finding a job that will offer more than 20-25 hours.

There are two sides to the issue, but only one side gets reported by the liberal rags that you read.
And the truth is that there are still thousands of these visas offered. It's just less than in previous years.

We all want our children to grow up with a strong work ethic.
That becomes difficult when the plentiful local economy would rather pay temporary foreigners.

So stop your bellyaching.
If a restaurant can't survive without these visas then they don't deserve to be in business.
frankj1 Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
I'm not anti work visa.
I'm anti owners who complain and blame others for their fiscal woes.

If I owned a seasonal joint I would absolutely want these special visas.
Supply and demand. I can pay less and demand more because there are more people than jobs.

As a father with kids trying to find summer hours in the same job market I DON'T like the seasonal work visas.
My kids have a hard time finding a job that will offer more than 20-25 hours.

There are two sides to the issue, but only one side gets reported by the liberal rags that you read.
And the truth is that there are still thousands of these visas offered. It's just less than in previous years.

We all want our children to grow up with a strong work ethic.
That becomes difficult when the plentiful local economy would rather pay temporary foreigners.

So stop your bellyaching.
If a restaurant can't survive without these visas then they don't deserve to be in business.

one of these days you'll actually answer my question...

do the "special visa" restaurant workers, and specifically wait staff, get paid less hourly than citizens? Do either get Minimum Wage or is it the way I was paid with reported tips making up the difference?

And it's not just less visas, you still need to win a lottery more or less to get foreign seasonal help.
tailgater Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Your question is irrelevant.

These workers are tied to the jobs.
Without the prearranged job, they get no visa.
And with the ADDITIONAL workers, the owners can hire more people and give less hours to each.

It's not a matter of hourly pay.

To answer your question directly, I don't know. But I assume they need to get paid the same as everyone else.
frankj1 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Your question is irrelevant.

These workers are tied to the jobs.
Without the prearranged job, they get no visa.
And with the ADDITIONAL workers, the owners can hire more people and give less hours to each.

It's not a matter of hourly pay.

To answer your question directly, I don't know. But I assume they need to get paid the same as everyone else.

and does everyone else in the wait staff pool make less than minimum wage?
frankj1 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
relevance is hanging in the balance...HA!
tailgater Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
and does everyone else in the wait staff pool make less than minimum wage?


Why you worried about wage?

frankj1 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Why you worried about wage?


you said:

The employers just don't want to compete (ie pay higher wages)



if the legals make the same as the local kids...

I'm thinking the locals won't do the same jobs for the same money.
That, or many more workers are needed than the Cape can supply.

Still not relevant?

This only makes me want to get together sooner!
delta1 Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
yea, but who'll bring your drinks and food, bus the table and empty the ash-trays?
frankj1 Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
delta1 wrote:
yea, but who'll bring your drinks and food, bus the table and empty the ash-trays?

I ain't going to da Cape until I know.

Though I am looking for a house for a week in July...
I'll make my own drinks if it helps. I'll take minimum wage.
frankj1 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrMaddVibe wrote:
They kept on revising numbers lower each and every time and sometimes multiple times! Anything to try to show that his policies were having a positive effect. During the entire debacle of giving cash away to corporations I stated that we would be better off giving each and every LEGAL (see how I tied it back?? Gotta give me that one!) American one million US dollars. It would've been a better use of the money.

Warren did nothing to arrest those responsible. The only people that were arrested were small fish. Not ONE Goldman Sachs...not ONE! As for "my guy"...no...it ALL happened here...

http://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-the-warning/

The Carpetbagging Clintons.

Could've ALL been avoided...WAAAAY back when using agencies the correct way. Instead everyone still wants to defer to the Federal Reserve like they're an expert. They're the biggest bunch of thieves ever, we were warned about centralized banking by our Founding Fathers. Once again...THEY were right.

As for continuation of Bush's policies...He was going to be "different". Hope and Change. Transparent. Instead we were lied to and most were conned. There were a lot of people that weren't "bamboozled". Tried to warn everyone too. Oh well. He's the only President to make Jimmy Carter appear legitimate. I'll give the Kenyan King that.




everyone hates it when forced to admit that leaders they supported caused stuff, and I know there is an ever changing time line on cbid as to how far back one can go, but the Reagan Administration's easing/gutting of banking/lending restrictions is what set it all in motion.

not that it matters now, but it precedes Warren and Clinton.

And exactly how did you expect a Senator (Warren) to also enforce the regulations and arrest violators? The swamp
has now been strained, not drained.

Goldman Sacks? They're baaa-aaack!



tailgater Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
you said:

The employers just don't want to compete (ie pay higher wages)



if the legals make the same as the local kids...

I'm thinking the locals won't do the same jobs for the same money.
That, or many more workers are needed than the Cape can supply.

Still not relevant?

This only makes me want to get together sooner!


Higher wages due to supply and demand.
But with the visas in place, the owners have no worries because their work force is locked in. No need to give a raise, and no concern about the worker quitting.

Your assumption (more workers than the Cape can supply) is a false one.
To be fair, it does get difficult for some owners right after Labor Day, because the college kids are gone before the summer crowd leaves.
But that hardly justifies disrupting an entire population who want to work.

The program is a good one. But it became too large. There is no place for the workers to live, which drives up the price on housing that otherwise would have gone to lower income families.

So other than preventing young adults from working, and driving low income families onto the street, I can see why you think it's worth it so you can hear an Irish brogue with your morning oatmeal while visiting this island that I call home.


I'm thinking the Rye Tavern in Pine Hills.
Send Caren. You can stay home.


tailgater Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I ain't going to da Cape until I know.

Though I am looking for a house for a week in July...
I'll make my own drinks if it helps. I'll take minimum wage.


You'll need that job to pay for the rental.

https://www.capenews.net/regional_news/state-senate-passes-short-term-rental-tax-bill/article_d8e3deb0-3890-5fed-aaa3-cb81e073febc.html

tailgater Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
In the news this morning they say that crab prices will climb because of the lack of the J1 work visas.
I guess the shell fisheries use foreigners almost exclusively for this job.

Maybe with the reduced visa numbers, we could channel all the visa applicants into these crappy labor jobs, rather than the desirable service industry jobs that our own children are being blocked from.

Then you can visit the crabbery and listen to the gals swear in that sweet irish brogue.

Win/win.

(but not Steve Winn. He's persona non grata round these parts.)
frankj1 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I can agree to some degree with your position, but ...

Pine Hills? We tried to make that happen before, so now we must.

I'll let you know when to expect Caren. You don't have to make her bed in the morning.
delta1 Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
I have a bad feeling that this administration will end like previous GOP led ones...economy in recession, some economic crisis...maybe the hospitality, travel/gaming and restaurant businesses will be in the cross-hairs this time...that would be ironic...
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
In the news this morning they say that crab prices will climb because of the lack of the J1 work visas.
I guess the shell fisheries use foreigners almost exclusively for this job.

Maybe with the reduced visa numbers, we could channel all the visa applicants into these crappy labor jobs, rather than the desirable service industry jobs that our own children are being blocked from.

Then you can visit the crabbery and listen to the gals swear in that sweet irish brogue.

Win/win.

(but not Steve Winn. He's persona non grata round these parts.)

wassa matta wif you?

the fishing industry jobs go strictly to the illegal immigrants. You're gonna upset the MA Economy.

Wait staff aside, are the Cape kids being shut out of the maid positions too? Man what I would have given to make beds and clean toilets all Summer in High School.

DrafterX Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Picking crabs can't be that hard... Mellow
SmokeMonkey Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 04-05-2015
Posts: 5,688
Every time I see this thread, I think it says “Midget Caravan.” Imagine my disappointment.
DrafterX Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ya... poor Monkey Dude... Sad
jjanecka Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
All I know is that you only have to show them how to do it once and they can replicate it 100 times.
tailgater Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
wassa matta wif you?

the fishing industry jobs go strictly to the illegal immigrants. You're gonna upset the MA Economy.

Wait staff aside, are the Cape kids being shut out of the maid positions too? Man what I would have given to make beds and clean toilets all Summer in High School.



You suggesting I should wear my french maids outfit again?

frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
You suggesting I should wear my french maids outfit again?


did the Irish seamstress let it out yet?
dstieger Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I've mentioned more than once that conservatives have failed miserably to maintain rational dialog.....not dodging the 'racist tag'; allowing 'illegal aliens' to become 'illegals' and then 'illegal immigrants' and then becoming 'undocumenteds'; not even voting anything on DACA to show some level of 'compassion' even when Trump wrapped it up and handed it to them.....I heard one more step backwards this morning: A story on illegals repeatedly referred to them as 'non-citizens'....sounds harmless enough at first? But, already happening, is that the entire group of illegals are becoming lumped in with all the non-citizens who came here legally....on fiance visas, work visas, tourists, resident aliens (green card holders), etc.
frankj1 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
dstieger wrote:
I've mentioned more than once that conservatives have failed miserably to maintain rational dialog.....not dodging the 'racist tag'; allowing 'illegal aliens' to become 'illegals' and then 'illegal immigrants' and then becoming 'undocumenteds'; not even voting anything on DACA to show some level of 'compassion' even when Trump wrapped it up and handed it to them.....I heard one more step backwards this morning: A story on illegals repeatedly referred to them as 'non-citizens'....sounds harmless enough at first? But, already happening, is that the entire group of illegals are becoming lumped in with all the non-citizens who came here legally....on fiance visas, work visas, tourists, resident aliens (green card holders), etc.

lumping may be intentional.
Contrary to natural and understandable assumptions, language determines, shapes and limits thought and reality. It would seem the opposite should be true (Wharfian Hypothesis, I believe).

Dave, you definitely are more conservative than not but you do seem to have clear vision pro and con regarding conservative and liberal thought alike. I'm more open to your writings that don't align with mine due to lack of dogma.
dstieger Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Thanks to TW.... Without him, I might never have learned such an appreciation for fenceposts....not familiar with Wharfian Hypothesis, however....I didn't watch much Star Trek Next Generation
tailgater Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
I've mentioned more than once that conservatives have failed miserably to maintain rational dialog.....not dodging the 'racist tag'; allowing 'illegal aliens' to become 'illegals' and then 'illegal immigrants' and then becoming 'undocumenteds'; not even voting anything on DACA to show some level of 'compassion' even when Trump wrapped it up and handed it to them.....I heard one more step backwards this morning: A story on illegals repeatedly referred to them as 'non-citizens'....sounds harmless enough at first? But, already happening, is that the entire group of illegals are becoming lumped in with all the non-citizens who came here legally....on fiance visas, work visas, tourists, resident aliens (green card holders), etc.


The demonization of the term "illegal" is from the left.

If conservatives continuously strike-out at finding a suitable replacement it's hardly fair to blame them.


And "not dodging the racist tag"??
What does that mean?

A conservative is called a racist for respecting a flag. they get called racist. If they deny it they're accused of being defensive. If they say nothing they're "not dodging" it well enough?

Help me out here.
dstieger Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
TG,
I mean that conservatives have lost control of the conversation, oftentimes. Of course demonization of 'illegal' came from the left...successfully. If we don't blame conservatives for striking out, then just throw up your hands, I guess....not our fault. If a batter strikes out, I guess its the pitcher's fault. If that batter comes into September below the Mendoza line, then just maybe he is doing a crappy job batting.
By "not dodging the racist tag" I meant more striking out. I don't have answers or mastery of any sort of debate - but I do feel that Trump was calculated, not careless in the way he has talked about Muslims, Mexicans, 'both sides' -- to appeal to a certain base base, without having to be accountable for allowing more division in general population. You seem to imply that those that speak for the right are incapable of effecting the flow of conversation -- I don't believe that - I just think that they've done a lousy job. I very much get the frustration of trying to converse with someone/some group that voices opinions that can't be understood by my mostly logical brain (not naming names today) -- But we have to try. The alternative, which may not be all that unlikely in the US, is a segment of society that eventually, mostly withdraws into itself and away from potentially meaningful, modulating dialog. We need to get our hands off our hips and acknowledge that people on 'the other side' actually believe a lot of what they say and our backing up, shaking our heads and just saying, 'well, that's a flucked up POV", isn't going to get us very far
dstieger Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
frankj1 wrote:

Contrary to natural and understandable assumptions, language determines, shapes and limits thought and reality. It would seem the opposite should be true (Wharfian Hypothesis, I believe).



Appreciate that, frank. I don't recall having heard of Whorf (or Sapir), but I am going to read up....interesting stuff. Besides, I gotta admire hypotheses that can't really be disproved - apologies to Mr. Linehan, my 7th grade science teacher
frankj1 Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
dstieger wrote:
Appreciate that, frank. I don't recall having heard of Whorf (or Sapir), but I am going to read up....interesting stuff. Besides, I gotta admire hypotheses that can't really be disproved - apologies to Mr. Linehan, my 7th grade science teacher

you're right, Whorf not Wharf. I must have still had seafood from Cape Cod on da brain.

I dusted it off from the memory bank, an old class at B. U. but the language component having such power to shape thought and reality really stayed with me.
tailgater Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
TG,
I mean that conservatives have lost control of the conversation, oftentimes. Of course demonization of 'illegal' came from the left...successfully. If we don't blame conservatives for striking out, then just throw up your hands, I guess....not our fault. If a batter strikes out, I guess its the pitcher's fault. If that batter comes into September below the Mendoza line, then just maybe he is doing a crappy job batting.
By "not dodging the racist tag" I meant more striking out. I don't have answers or mastery of any sort of debate - but I do feel that Trump was calculated, not careless in the way he has talked about Muslims, Mexicans, 'both sides' -- to appeal to a certain base base, without having to be accountable for allowing more division in general population. You seem to imply that those that speak for the right are incapable of effecting the flow of conversation -- I don't believe that - I just think that they've done a lousy job. I very much get the frustration of trying to converse with someone/some group that voices opinions that can't be understood by my mostly logical brain (not naming names today) -- But we have to try. The alternative, which may not be all that unlikely in the US, is a segment of society that eventually, mostly withdraws into itself and away from potentially meaningful, modulating dialog. We need to get our hands off our hips and acknowledge that people on 'the other side' actually believe a lot of what they say and our backing up, shaking our heads and just saying, 'well, that's a flucked up POV", isn't going to get us very far


I think we've lost control of the conversation because the mainstream media is like the all and powerful Oz.

It's difficult to strike back without looking like whiners.

At the end of the day, Trump won BECAUSE of how the media and the left embrace the illogical.
Doesn't mean we should remain complacent. But we're not losing the battle. Because "illegal" is a word and it has meaning. If that offends some on the other side of the aisle, then they should do more to prevent the act, rather than attack those who point it out.

Never apologize for being right.


frankj1 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:



Never apologize for being right.



or left!
Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,373
DHS to push for criminal charges against all border jumpers

The Trump administration said Monday it will now pursue criminal charges against every migrant nabbed jumping the U.S.-Mexico border, putting serious teeth behind President Trump’s goal of stiffening immigration enforcement.

While most border jumpers will face charges for illegally entering the U.S., parents who bring their children with them as they sneak across could face smuggling charges, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said. That could mean they will be separated from their children while they await their trials — and serve sentences.

“Our goal is to have the whole world know this border is not open. Don’t come unlawfully,” Attorney General Jeff Sessions said while standing at the border in San Diego, alongside U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement chief Thomas D. Homan.

Prosecutions have long been the exception rather than the rule, with most people who jump the border put into civil deportation proceedings.

But illegal entry is a misdemeanor crime and attempting to sneak back in after a previous deportation is a felony. Mr. Homan and Mr. Sessions said it’s time the government start treating them as such.


Rest of the story here:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/7/dhs-push-criminal-charges-against-all-border-jumpe/

David (dpnewell)
ZRX1200 Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
I'd like to prosecute the lawyers who had paperwork waiting or them. Where's a good McCarthy when you need him.

#wheresmylandmines
DrafterX Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I seen her boobs once... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
or left!


Right = correct.

Coincidence?

frankj1 Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Right = correct.

Coincidence?


left...the building

smaht!
RMAN4443 Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
I seen her boobs once... Mellow

All 3 of them??? Anxious
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