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U. S. Allies
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frankj1 Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2018, 6:14 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
victor809 wrote:
G7 is different than NATO.

Yes... Also trade... But Trump's beef (at least the one I'm talking about) has been with Canada, which is in both. NATO agreements have been in place for a while. To the best of my understanding, nothing had changed until trump changed things.

While this was at a G7 meeting (which I believe was about climate?) That trump refused to sign an agreement for. But that doesnt have anything to do with us/Canada trade (I don't think).

G7 would be so much better with Russia, or so I hear.
victor809 Offline
#52 Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2018, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I dunno... Without Russia it was feeling so fly.. like a g6...


(I'll see myself out)
victor809 Offline
#53 Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2018, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I want to make a clarification to my post in 48...
While NAFTA was negotiated years ago, they were "renegotiating". Trump had reopened negotiations because he wanted to increase the % us manufacturing of autos from Mexico or something like that. They were in talks to renegotiate, when he decided to impose the tariffs on steel and aluminum to the world. He made NAFTA exempt for a short period to see if that would pressure them to accept his renegotiation. That apparently didn't work, so he dropped the exemptions for NAFTA.

Yeah... That sure sounds like mean Canada started it....
HuckFinn Offline
#54 Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2018, 6:31 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
frankj1 wrote:
G7 would be so much better with Russia, or so I hear.

They should vote on it.

Oh wait...maybe not
tailgater Offline
#55 Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2018, 7:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Trump made the first change.
Without proof that the status quo was bad, then making a unilateral change to it, without negotiating with your trade partners, does make you belligerent.
.



Yeah.
Everything that isn't broken should never be fixed.

Again. NOT saying it was the right move.
But you ARE saying it was the wrong one.

Because,
...
Trump.
HuckFinn Offline
#56 Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2018, 9:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
frankj1 wrote:
G7 would be so much better with Russia, or so I hear.

Maybe not even necessary. We're there.
victor809 Offline
#57 Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2018, 10:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Tail... Where did I say it was the wrong move.

I said it was the first move. The one which causes repercussions. You're whining about the media having a biased description of Trump's and Trudeau's actions. I'm telling you one acted first by adding a tariff which appears to violate the spirit of NAFTA, and the others are acting in response.

In a schoolyard fight one person usually throws the first punch. More often than not that's the bully.
HuckFinn Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 7:48 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
victor809 wrote:
Tail... Where did I say it was the wrong move.

I said it was the first move. The one which causes repercussions. You're whining about the media having a biased description of Trump's and Trudeau's actions. I'm telling you one acted first by adding a tariff which appears to violate the spirit of NAFTA, and the others are acting in response.

In a schoolyard fight one person usually throws the first punch. More often than not that's the bully.

Maybe try the 'buying a car' analogy?
tailgater Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 8:55 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


In a schoolyard fight one person usually throws the first punch. More often than not that's the bully.



I bet that's not accurate.

Pokes. Prods. Provokes.

But throw the first punch?

I don't know the stats. But I have a feeling the first punch is most often retaliatory.



The Donald accepts your apology.
RMAN4443 Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 12:58 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Tail... Where did I say it was the wrong move.

I said it was the first move. The one which causes repercussions. You're whining about the media having a biased description of Trump's and Trudeau's actions. I'm telling you one acted first by adding a tariff which appears to violate the spirit of NAFTA, and the others are acting in response.

In a schoolyard fight one person usually throws the first punch. More often than not that's the winner.

Fixed it Anxious
victor809 Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 1:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I never said bullys didn't usually win their fights.
Speyside Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 1:15 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So who are our allies now?
RMAN4443 Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 1:18 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
I never said bullys didn't usually win their fights.

You don't need to be a bully to throw the first punch......you need to know that you need to throw the first punch or your gonna get hit

I was always taught there's no such thing as a fair fight when it comes down to getting punched in the face Anxious
victor809 Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 1:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Meh... I've been punched in the face a number of times. not the worst thing in the world.

But there's a reason why people always ask who threw the first punch when kids get in a fight.

If you're always throwing the first punch and always getting in conflicts, you're likely not the victim.
RMAN4443 Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 1:42 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Meh... I've been punched in the face a number of times. not the worst thing in the world.

But there's a reason why people always ask who threw the first punch when kids get in a fight.

If you're always throwing the first punch and always getting in conflicts, you're likely not the victim.

I've been punched in the face enough to know I'd rather not get punched in the face...I haven't gotten punched in the face in a long time, and haven't had a conflict that ended with punches being thrown in almost 35 years....
The reason why they ask who threw the first punch amongst kids is.....because they are kids....and kids now a days don't throw punches very often, they shoot first and then throw punches
DrafterX Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 1:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
You can take Victor's word on this one... I've seen him... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 2:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
It's been a couple years since I've gotten a good square punch in the face... Hell... You know you really need to change your current tactics when youre getting kicked in the side of the head....

But none of that changes the fact that if you're the one who consistently hits people first (whether it's because you're sure they're about to hit you or not)... That sounds like a pattern.

(And the "because they are kids" is a terrible excuse why that wouldn't apply to El trumpo.... He's less mature than most high school children)
DrafterX Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 3:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mdKEPEiNxDI

Mellow
delta1 Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2018, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
Speyside wrote:
So who are our allies now?


The New and Improved Axis of Weebles:

Trump and the US; Putin and Russia; KJU and NKorea; Xi and China; Duterte and the Phillippines; and Erdogan and Turkey...


Trump aside, all are authoritarian/dictatorial in manner of rule: control the state media; oppress/arrest/kill their opposition; show off their military; seek to expand their area of influence and/or dominate the world; resist, upset or reverse Western dominance of global affairs...those characteristics are Trump's aspirations, so he's a sorta wannabe Weeble...
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