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Kid's lost in the Cave..
btpcm Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2018
Posts: 74
Here is a short video showing rescue team making very slow progress in the cave.
The page says it's a Elon Musk video, but Elon's face is not seen in the footage so maybe they mean he's funding this particular team or the video at least.

https://news.sky.com/video/thai-cave-elon-musk-11431662
btpcm Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2018
Posts: 74
Culture clash:
They showed a photo of the boys' team after football practice standing on a bamboo deck over a big cliff and the deck only has a guardrail on one side! I thought, "That guardrail sure doesn't meet OSHA or UBC standards."

Then I noticed their shoes, some of which the boys would leave at the cave entrance giving evidence they were inside the cave a week ago, Sunday. But I said to myself, "Those aren't football shoes. Maybe tennis shoes but not football. Are they sure the boys weren't practicing tennis?!"

Here's the photo:

https://e3.365dm.com/18/07/512x512/skynews-thailand-cave-boys_4351503.jpg?bypass-service-worker&

Better copy:

https://e3.365dm.com/18/07/992x558/skynews-cave-thailand-teens_4351504.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180702172138

Then when I heard the British lady explaining that when found all the boys wanted to know what's happening with the World Cup, I realized they were talking about soccer, not "football."

Yeah, in America this would be a really big problem.
rfenst Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
11th boy is out!
btpcm Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2018
Posts: 74
rfenst wrote:
11th boy is out!

That's good, at least they've got enough out for a team, even if the other two don't make it.
rfenst Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
btpcm wrote:
That's good, at least they've got enough out for a team, even if the other two don't make it.


Last kids and coach are out safely!
DrafterX Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Let the law suits begin... Laugh
dstieger Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
btpcm wrote:
Culture clash:
They showed a photo of the boys' team after football practice standing on a bamboo deck over a big cliff and the deck only has a guardrail on one side! I thought, "That guardrail sure doesn't meet OSHA or UBC standards."

Then I noticed their shoes, some of which the boys would leave at the cave entrance giving evidence they were inside the cave a week ago, Sunday. But I said to myself, "Those aren't football shoes. Maybe tennis shoes but not football. Are they sure the boys weren't practicing tennis?!"

Here's the photo:

https://e3.365dm.com/18/07/512x512/skynews-thailand-cave-boys_4351503.jpg?bypass-service-worker&

Better copy:

https://e3.365dm.com/18/07/992x558/skynews-cave-thailand-teens_4351504.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180702172138

Then when I heard the British lady explaining that when found all the boys wanted to know what's happening with the World Cup, I realized they were talking about soccer, not "football."

Yeah, in America this would be a really big problem.


So much to ponder......
Should we have fewer guardrail standards? Should Thailand have more?
Why are we the only country that smugly refuses to call soccer football?
...oh yeah....because soccer sux compared to real football, so who cares?...nvm
I don't doubt that here, "this would be a really big problem"....but what's the 'so what'? Should it be a bigger problem there, too? Should it not be as big a problem here as it would be? As Drafter suggests, are lawyers the root of all of our 'really big problems'? ;)
What would be the really big problem? The kids are safe, the world pulled together to watch and hope and pray....good stuff...but, I acknowledge that if here, we'd probably get more 'negatively slanted' press about this going forward than anywhere else....we gotta bitch about something and apply blame and shame (and lawsuits?)...facts and nuances be damned
dstieger Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
apologies to Robert....and Pacman, too

sometimes my sarcasm is lost on even me
btpcm Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2018
Posts: 74
It's great they all got out safely.

The boys were offered the chance to go to Russia and see the World Cup game there but their doctors said they can't leave the hospital for a week.
So they're going to be watching the game on TV in the hospital, most likely.

Now the lawyers can separate them all and ask for individual accounts of what happened.
In America this would be called "taking depositions."
In America, someone would be worried about who is going to pay for the cost of the rescue effort.
And for the hospital stay during recovery. And the medical treatment.

Whose idea was it to go to the cave entrance in the first place after "football practice?"
What did the trip to the cave entrance have to do with practicing football?
What distance did they travel from the football practice area to the cave entrance?
Was it raining at all at the time?
Was anyone in the group aware of a forecast of rain before they went to the cave entrance?
Did anyone mention the idea that rainfall could make the water level rise outside the cave or inside?
Were any of the boys who didn't like the idea of going into the cave taunted by other boys or by the coach?
Did the coach have parents' permission to take their kids to the cave entrance?
Did the coach make sure they had some food and water with them in case of an emergency inside the cave?
Was the coach sure to bring along a first aid kit into the cave?
Why didn't they tell their parents they were planning on going to the cave entrance after practice?
Were they afraid someone might steal their bicycles when they left them outside of the cave entrance?
How long did they think they were going to be in the cave?
Did any of the boys hesitate or resist going into the cave entrance?
If so, who convinced them to change their minds and go in after all?
Were they going in to the cave in order to practice football in a special environment?
Was the coach familiar with this particular cave from previous experience?
Did the coach say he knew this cave very well and there was no reason to stay out?
Were there any warning signs posted outside the cave not to go in?
Did anyone see a sign that said, "Football teams are forbidden entrance before, during or after practice?"
Was there any other kind of sign posted that made one or more of the boys concerned about going into the cave?
Did the boys have to remove any kind of barricade at the entrance in order to go further?
Did they encounter any barricade that someone else had all ready removed before the boys got there?
Why didn't anyone use a cell phone to call one or more parents to inform them the boys were going into the cave?
Were any of the boys concerned that if his parents knew about the cave idea they would have said not to go in?
Once they were in the cave, what happened to make them decide to proceed so much further inside?
Were they hoping to find some secondary exit deeper inside the cave?
MACS Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
Lets be honest, though, Dave... the old lady that won millions from McDonald's for a hot cup of coffee started this whole BS of frivolous lawsuits. The lady's lawyer, and the judge who allowed it, set the precedent for what is wrong with our litigious society today.
btpcm Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2018
Posts: 74
Unfortunately for the boys or the coach, there isn't any McDonald's inside the cave that they can use to blame for having gone in there in the first place.
And unfortunately for the boys they're not in America where the "fun" would just be starting.
The two boys who had irregular X-rays might have suffered damage from being stuck in a cave for two weeks. That could be worth something like coffee burns!
dstieger Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
btpcm wrote:
It's great they all got out safely.

The boys were offered the chance to go to Russia and see the World Cup game there but their doctors said they can't leave the hospital for a week.
So they're going to be watching the game on TV in the hospital, most likely.

Now the lawyers can separate them all and ask for individual accounts of what happened.
In America this would be called "taking depositions."
In America, someone would be worried about who is going to pay for the cost of the rescue effort.
And for the hospital stay during recovery. And the medical treatment.

Whose idea was it to go to the cave entrance in the first place after "football practice?"
What did the trip to the cave entrance have to do with practicing football?
What distance did they travel from the football practice area to the cave entrance?
Was it raining at all at the time?
Was anyone in the group aware of a forecast of rain before they went to the cave entrance?
Did anyone mention the idea that rainfall could make the water level rise outside the cave or inside?
Were any of the boys who didn't like the idea of going into the cave taunted by other boys or by the coach?
Did the coach have parents' permission to take their kids to the cave entrance?
Did the coach make sure they had some food and water with them in case of an emergency inside the cave?
Was the coach sure to bring along a first aid kit into the cave?
Why didn't they tell their parents they were planning on going to the cave entrance after practice?
Were they afraid someone might steal their bicycles when they left them outside of the cave entrance?
How long did they think they were going to be in the cave?
Did any of the boys hesitate or resist going into the cave entrance?
If so, who convinced them to change their minds and go in after all?
Were they going in to the cave in order to practice football in a special environment?
Was the coach familiar with this particular cave from previous experience?
Did the coach say he knew this cave very well and there was no reason to stay out?
Were there any warning signs posted outside the cave not to go in?
Did anyone see a sign that said, "Football teams are forbidden entrance before, during or after practice?"
Was there any other kind of sign posted that made one or more of the boys concerned about going into the cave?
Did the boys have to remove any kind of barricade at the entrance in order to go further?
Did they encounter any barricade that someone else had all ready removed before the boys got there?
Why didn't anyone use a cell phone to call one or more parents to inform them the boys were going into the cave?
Were any of the boys concerned that if his parents knew about the cave idea they would have said not to go in?
Once they were in the cave, what happened to make them decide to proceed so much further inside?
Were they hoping to find some secondary exit deeper inside the cave?


I'm still not at all sure I understand your point. Are the boys lucky that they aren't in America? If all those questions are important right now...then maybe they are. I'm perfectly fine with a young coach taking a break from a rigorous practice schedule and taking his charges on a challenging 'team building hike' in a place regularly frequented by non-spelunkers -- in America, the coach might have taken them to McDonalds for showing up for practice....sure there could have been some different (better?) decisions along the way....but again....huh?......what is your point? or are you simply inquisitive?
rfenst Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
MACS wrote:
Lets be honest, though, Dave... the old lady that won millions from McDonald's for a hot cup of coffee started this whole BS of frivolous lawsuits. The lady's lawyer, and the judge who allowed it, set the p ecedent for what is wrong with our litigious society today.


BULL$HIT. She did NOT collect millions and the judge lowered the award significantly at the end of the case. She had 2nd and 3rd degree burns, was hospitalized for 8 days, underwent surgeries and did not heal fully for 2 years. Mcd's refused to settle for her request for just her medical expenses. There was a Mcd's memo showing the reasoning for selling such hot coffee. They calculated they would save more money over-heating their coffee to reduce having to serve refills. The memo showed that Mcd's would save more money not serving as many refills vs. paying increased burn claims. There is a lot about this on the internet and U-tube.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
MACS Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
Fair enough, Robert. What started it, then? Why do we see so many lawsuits?
dstieger Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Greed vs Golden Rule.
Greed wins. :(
Mr. Jones Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
"IF" there is a "made for TV movie"
About this entire clusterf**k stupid story???

The "COACH" SHOULD NOT GET ONE RED CENT OR BAHT..

HE SHOULD GET A BILL FOR THE MILLIONS SPENT TO RESCUE THOSE POOR KIDS...
THAT COACH IS A FREAKIN MORON.

"HEY ...LETS ALL GO SPELUNKING WITH NO REAL CAVE EQUIPMENT, WATER OR FOOD DURING MONSOON SEASON...YEA , THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT IDEA"

TOO BAD there are 50 freezing illegal Mexican kids in Arizona on a WAL-MART FEMA CAMP CONCRETE FLOOR WITH NO SILVER SPACE BLANKETS...
CUZ THEY GOT FED-EXED TO THAILAND ...
rfenst Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
MACS wrote:
Fair enough, Robert. What started it, then? Why do we see so many lawsuits?



There aren't as many as people believe. 9+/10 personal injury claims/suits settle amicably. Most lawsuits aren't even for injuries, but are for business disputes. Our history of courts determining unsettled awards for injuries is part of the common law that is hundreds of years old, which we adopted from England when we developed our legal system. Big Business is what is behind "Tort Reform".
dstieger Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I won't dispute any of that Robert. However, the McDonalds suit has to be awarded some credit. Fairly or not, it is the poster child for successful frivolous lawsuits - the award wasn't unreasonable, but the millions in punitive helped make this case pretty infamous -- and no doubt inspired others...while disgusting many...again, perhaps somewhat unfairly, but perception is nine tenths of the law, or something
Speyside Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Talk about a thread jack, the kids and the coach are out and alive. Isn't that what is important ?
RMAN4443 Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
What about everyone who burns the roof of their mouth eating hot pizza?....any way we can get a couple of bucks?...

and yes, the kids are the important thing in this thread
dstieger Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Speyside wrote:
the kids and the coach are out and alive. Isn't that what is important ?

It was a few hours ago -- now, what's important is who's going to fry and who's going to get rich
opelmanta1900 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
rfenst wrote:
There aren't as many as people believe. 9+/10 personal injury claims/suits settle amicably. Most lawsuits aren't even for injuries, but are for business disputes. Our history of courts determining unsettled awards for injuries is part of the common law that is hundreds of years old, which we adopted from England when we developed our legal system. Big Business is what is behind "Tort Reform".


I don't think torts need reforming... I mean, they're not cake... but you get like a nice Linzer around the holidays or something, it's pretty good...
victor809 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm holding out for cheesecake law...
RMAN4443 Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
I'm holding out for cheesecake law...

I just got an e-mail with the recipe for a Carrot Cake Cheese Cake....two of my favorites in one dishDrool
opelmanta1900 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
RMAN4443 wrote:
I just got an e-mail with the recipe for a Carrot Cake Cheese Cake....two of my favorites in one dishDrool

Hmmm... is it just a recipe for a cheesecake and a recipe for carrot cake and you place the former atop the latter?

Or is it a case of the flavors of carrot cake being incorporated into a cheesecake recipe?
rfenst Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
Thai law on personal injury claims:

"Because of the injury or damage that results, the person or entity responsible is made to compensate the offended person. In Thailand, a tort is embraced under the category of wrongful acts or fault. ... Dissimilar to Western norms, damages awarded by Thai courts from torts are limited to actual damages only."
RMAN4443 Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Hmmm... is it just a recipe for a cheesecake and a recipe for carrot cake and you place the former atop the latter?

Or is it a case of the flavors of carrot cake being incorporated into a cheesecake recipe?



carrot cake flavored cheese cake...sounds good to meApplause
opelmanta1900 Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I don't think thai people have any idea what a tort is... Think
opelmanta1900 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
RMAN4443 wrote:
carrot cake flavored cheese cake...sounds good to meApplause

What style we talking? Philadelphia, New York, French, or British?
RMAN4443 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
opelmanta1900 wrote:
What style we talking? Philadelphia, New York, French, or British?

philly…..you want the recipe?

could be NY...I'm not up on the variations.....Anxious
DrafterX Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
So, turns out the kids can't go home... That's right, they've been separated from their families..!! OhMyGod
delta1 Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Humanitarian purpose...to restore the kids back to a healthy state...so the re-unification is a happy one...their parents do know where they are, and can visit...



Don't think that Thai law is as grounded in English common law as is civil law in US...I wouldn't be surprised if lawsuits do NOT result from this near disaster...if you are not satisfied with the nice Thai lady's services, tough...


who's the real victim here? The rescuer/doctor/SEAL who died? Line of duty, wasn't it...
victor809 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
.... I could use a tart about now...
rfenst Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
delta1 wrote:
who's the real victim here? The rescuer/doctor/SEAL who died? Line of duty, wasn't it...




True. Wonder if there could be criminal liability for the diver's death?
MACS Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
victor809 wrote:
.... I could use a tart about now...


Hell yeah... and not the one with carbs... Anxious
frankj1 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
So, turns out the kids can't go home... That's right, they've been separated from their families..!! OhMyGod

I heard it's cuz of the Bat Cave quarantine laws
frankj1 Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I do love when this stuff happens here...

yet another thread has emerged and thrived within the op, and it happens as easily as the double meaning of a word...this time tort.

a thread about a miraculous event hosting a thread about fancy desserts.

as George Costanza told the NBC producer..."that's a show".
delta1 Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
and the "growth" of specious lawsuits in the US...
delta1 Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
slow azzed servers today led to double clicks and posts...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
RMAN4443 wrote:
philly…..you want the recipe?

could be NY...I'm not up on the variations.....Anxious

I forgot we were talking cheesecake in here....

NY tends to use sour cream and is typically less set in the middle... European styles tend to use cream and or gelatin and are typically more custard like and require a much shorter bake time and little to no chill...

Philly is the only kind i mess with... it's firm all the way to the center and uses just 3 basic ingredients, eggs, cream cheese, and sugar at a ratio of 1:8 oz: 1/4 cup...

Once you know the correct methodology, you can create any kind of cheesecake you want using that ratio... but there are some caveats, which makes me wonder how the carrot cake one can be pulled off...

When i think of carrot cake i think of 5 things... first, I'm allergic to everything in here so i can't eat this... but the next things i think of are carrots, raisins, walnuts, and cream cheese....

Cream cheese is obviously no issue.... i could see a carrot puree being added without difficulty... walnuts and raisins? Not happening unless they're placed on top after baking...

Cheesecake has to be baked at a uniform temperature throughout... in fact, you pretty much have to have the thing sitting in a water bath in the oven during cook time to ensure the heat is evenly circulate....

The density of walnuts, and the water activity of raisins means the temperatures of these things will rise and fall at a much different speed than the surrounding cream cheese mixture... this will lead to an uneven bake within and severe cracking on the surface...

Off the top of my head if i was asked to make carrot cake cheesecake, I'd probably go with a carrot cake sponge split horizontally.... top the bottom sponge with cream cheese frosting mixed with your walnuts and raisins... add a 24oz cheesecake on top of that, then the top layer of sponge... then frost that with a traditional creamcheese buttercream frosting and dress that up with raisins and walnuts...
frankj1 Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
screw Philly
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
OhMyGod
frankj1 Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
like you wouldn't!
btpcm Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2018
Posts: 74
DrafterX wrote:
So, turns out the kids can't go home... That's right, they've been separated from their families..!! OhMyGod

Separated even in the hospital -- by a plate glass window!

As for the carrot-cheese-cake thing, I doubt the kids can have any, so it's off topic! Mad
btpcm Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2018
Posts: 74
dstieger wrote:
I'm still not at all sure I understand your point. Are the boys lucky that they aren't in America? If all those questions are important right now...then maybe they are. I'm perfectly fine with a young coach taking a break from a rigorous practice schedule and taking his charges on a challenging 'team building hike' in a place regularly frequented by non-spelunkers -- in America, the coach might have taken them to McDonalds for showing up for practice....sure there could have been some different (better?) decisions along the way....but again....huh?......what is your point? or are you simply inquisitive?

Now, now, now, frankyj1 didn't think it was a problem, see here:

Quote:
I do love when this stuff happens here...

yet another thread has emerged and thrived within the op, and it happens as easily as the double meaning of a word...this time tort.

a thread about a miraculous event hosting a thread about fancy desserts.

as George Costanza told the NBC producer..."that's a show".

Make that "fancy desserts" which the BOYS in the HOSPITAL can't even HAVE.

But they CAN watch the World Cup on TV instead of seeing it in person, because the Doctor said so.

Elon Musk could ask them -- if they even know what cheesecake IS.

btpcm Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2018
Posts: 74
delta1 wrote:


who's the real victim here? The rescuer/doctor/SEAL who died? Line of duty, wasn't it...

The rescuer who died was an ex-Thai-Navy-Seal volunteer so he didn't die in the line of "duty" - it was his choice.

Really ironic thing was, he had delivered air tanks to the boys and was on his return swim to go get more air tanks when he RAN OUT OF AIR WHILE UNDERWATER so then he died from having given all his air away, basically.

One more thing about that:
If he was a "victim" and should get a reward, maybe the reward was he was "repatriated" in his coffin, posthumously.
Why would he need to be repatriated? Well, they did say he was an "ex-Thai Navy Seal."
So now he's a Thai ex-Navy Seal as a reward!

America should sit up and take notice. It doesn't have to always be about MONEY.
Mr. Jones Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
BAHTTTT!!!

BBBBBBAAAAAAAHHHHHHTTTTTT!!!

BAA....BAA....BAHT-TEEEEEE.. BAHT BAHT !!!

I S.A.Y. !!!!
opelmanta1900 Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Put a wallet in his mouth, he's having a seizure!
frankj1 Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
btpcm wrote:
Now, now, now, frankyj1 didn't think it was a problem, see here:


Make that "fancy desserts" which the BOYS in the HOSPITAL can't even HAVE.

But they CAN watch the World Cup on TV instead of seeing it in person, because the Doctor said so.

Elon Musk could ask them -- if they even know what cheesecake IS.


you were replying to a dsteiger post, not me.
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