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An interesting observation
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bgz Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 4:23 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I know when some family members found out that I'm a non-believer, they flipped their lid. My grandmother took it especially rough as one of her best friends in this world was a priest (I don't think he took it so well either).

Anyway, once religious people find out what you are, they tend not to trust you or want to associate with you.

So I can see why militants have surfaced from non-believers. Atheists face more discrimination than any other "group" of people in the world.

One study showed that atheists didn't fare much better than rapists when polled about trustworthiness.
JadeRose Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 5:19 PM EST
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
bgz wrote:
I religiously brush my teeth at least twice a day, and consider any adult who doesn't do it to be a dumb ass, so by your logic, that makes dentistry a religion.




Ok......I'm done. I believe Gene and I are both making the same point but you aren't seeing it.
JadeRose Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 5:30 PM EST
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Many empires have reshaped the world over the course of time... by no means was America the first, nor will it be the last...

Some day, jade and buckwheat and bgz may even see an empire reshape the world to be free of religion...

Of course that world will be a world largely free of homeless shelters, food kitchens, the red cross, the red crescent, the salvation army, goodwill stores, 12 step recovery programs, teen challenge drug recovery centers, Christmas, Easter, thanksgiving, the overwhelming majority of state constitutions, the first amendment, might as well abolish the US since to an extent it was settled for religious purposes... the list could go on but you all have Google... religion sure does suck... good thing we've got Hollywood...




Why be a prick? I didn't say this nor is this something I even care about. I will say that the world is perfectly capable of being good to each other without religion. Not a single one of these requires religion unless you are talking about holidays and I GARONTEE that if Christmas disappeared tomorrow that Amazon and Walmart would come up with a suitable alternative.

and as far as the US.....it was established to be FREE of a state sponsored religion. Religion has no place in Government. NONE. I do NOT trust in God, nor does putting my hand on a bible, Koran, Torah, or anything else mean a single thing to me. The Bible, to me, is no different than a comic book of today. Superman and Jesus are virtually the same character. Don't agree with me? I give no shits....believe what you believe and I will do the same. I just won't try to get you to believe what I believe because I don't really care what you believe..unless you are f*cking with me about it. THAT'S freedom.
bgz Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 5:36 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
JadeRose wrote:
Ok......I'm done. I believe Gene and I are both making the same point but you aren't seeing it.


I see your point just fine, you're saying because there exists a very small percentage of the overall population of atheists that you believe behave as anti-religious zealots implies that non-belief is a religion.

It's a logical fallacy, and I'm simply calling BS where I see it.

I don't know if you're familiar with P vs NP, but there are equivalent problems where if you can show that for one such problem that P = NP, then P = NP for all such problems. Similarly, however much more trivially, your proclamations are easily shown to be nonsensical with simple analogies.
HuckFinn Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 5:45 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Gene363 wrote:
Religion is an invention of man. I'm not a big fan, but the more the merrier and the less likelihood of one religion getting in charge of the everything. I'd should also say that atheism, in this context, is another religion.

Just a matter of semantics I think. Atheism is a belief system. Believing God doesn't exist probably does not a religion make. Atheism is like any other belief system, communism, Gnosticism, dualism etc etc. Just because they attract adherents doesn't necessarily mean they're religions.

Religion according to the dictionary is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

God is dead. Nietzsche.

Nietzsche is dead. God.
bgz Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 5:55 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
HuckFinn wrote:
Just a matter of semantics I think. Atheism is a belief system. Believing God doesn't exist probably does not a religion make. Atheism is like any other belief system, communism, Gnosticism, dualism etc etc. Just because they attract adherents doesn't necessarily mean they're religions.

Religion according to the dictionary is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Amen.


Atheism is a belief system?

I look at it more like this...

-- Start belief system --

I believe anyone who claims to know what happens to you when you die or claims to understand what some superior being that created us wants is full of sh*t...

-- End of belief system --
HuckFinn Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 6:01 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
bgz wrote:
Atheism is a belief system?

I look at it more like this...

-- Start belief system --

I believe anyone who claims to know what happens to you when you die or claims to understand what some superior being that created us wants is full of sh*t...

-- End of belief system --

Dude, you sound as convinced as the religious fanatics.

Wtf knows what the truth is.

I keep an open mind. Gets messy when I clean my ears.
Gene363 Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 6:03 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
HuckFinn wrote:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one


Imagine is one of my favorite tunes. It was a hymn in the supplemental hymnal at the San Juan Capistrano Presbyterian Church in San Juan Capistrano, CA. We sang it in church several times.
HuckFinn Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 6:06 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Gene363 wrote:
Imagine is one of my favorite tunes. It was a hymn in the supplemental hymnal at the San Juan Capistrano Presbyterian Church in San Juan Capistrano, CA. We sang it in church several times.

Hard to see how a church would be okay with that first verse.
Interesting..
Gene363 Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 6:07 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
HuckFinn wrote:
Just a matter of semantics I think. Atheism is a belief system. Believing God doesn't exist probably does not a religion make. Atheism is like any other belief system, communism, Gnosticism, dualism etc etc. Just because they attract adherents doesn't necessarily mean they're religions.

Religion according to the dictionary is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

God is dead. Nietzsche.

Nietzsche is dead. God.


You gotta read all the dictionary:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

Quote:
Definition of religion

1 a : the state of a religious a nun in her 20th year of religion
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
bgz Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 6:10 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
HuckFinn wrote:

Wtf knows what the truth is.


A satisfactory summary of my "belief system" that I posted above!

As far as being convinced, yes... I am convinced that nobody knows... and as a corollary, if someone happens to be right, it's 100% luck.
HuckFinn Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 6:32 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Does the absence of a belief constitute a belief?

Definition of religion

4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Not even close imo. Tell me to rob a bank with you and if I refuse, with ardor, does that make me a religious/believer in not robbing banks? I have faith in the fact that it's dumb to rob banks.


bgz Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 7:03 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
HuckFinn wrote:
Dude, you sound as convinced as the religious fanatics.


Forgot to respond to this part...

Yes, I am very convinced that atheism is not a religion, and that's what I'm arguing. I'm making no statement of whether atheism is right or wrong... though I don't really see how it could be either if all it's "adherents" simply choose not to believe in a religious belief system. I personally make no claim of knowledge of the unknown, and choose to not believe anyone who makes such a claim.
HuckFinn Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 7:03 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
bgz wrote:
A satisfactory summary of my "belief system" that I posted above!

As far as being convinced, yes... I am convinced that nobody knows... and as a corollary, if someone happens to be right, it's 100% luck.

I understand. I have no idea if there's a god out there or not.
Like I said before I think everyone needs a healthy dose of spiritualism.
Imo that's essentially what religion is to believers. When things get really tough in life and you realize a situation is hopeless and out of your control, in steps God for a lot of people. Like they say, there are no atheists in foxholes....

On the other hand, damn smart guy said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." (Einstein)
bgz Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
It was more dangerous to pronounce a flat out disbelief back then... it was pretty much career suicide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein
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