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How would the Trump critics spin this ?
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RMAN4443 Offline
#1 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 1:09 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
https://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2018/07/trump_can_shut_down_his_russia.html

Trump can shut down his Russia critics with just one move | Marc A. Thiessen
Updated Jul 23, 8:04 AM; Posted Jul 23, 8:00 AM


By Marc A. Thiessen
If President Donald Trump wants to shut down the critics of his performance this week in Helsinki and strengthen U.S. national security, he can do so with one bold move: Announce he is moving out most U.S. forces currently stationed in Germany and sending them to Poland.


The Polish government recently presented Trump with a formal proposal to move U.S. troops from Stuttgart, Germany, to a new permanent U.S. military base in Poland. Trump should take up Warsaw on this offer.
Moving U.S. troops to Poland would be a bold, historic decision on par with Trump's decision to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. Not only would it better position American forces, it also would completely flummox Trump's critics in the U.S. foreign policy establishment.
After spending the past week accusing him of being Putin's puppet, they would look foolish if they turned around and criticized him for antagonizing Russia. And after attacking him for undermining NATO, they could hardly complain that he is taking unprecedented action to shore up the alliance's Eastern flank.
The Polish government recently presented Trump with a formal proposal to move U.S. troops from Stuttgart, Germany, to a new permanent U.S. military base in Poland. Trump should take up Warsaw on this offer.


Such a move would reinforce the tough line the president took on defense spending at last week's NATO summit, by punishing a deadbeat ally that does not meet its NATO commitments and rewarding a steadfast ally that does. Why should Germany -- a country that spends just 1.24 percent of its gross domestic product on defense -- continue to be rewarded with the economic benefit of U.S. bases? Better to station U.S. forces in a country such as Poland that is providing what Trump has called a "truly magnificent" example as "one of the NATO countries that has actually achieved the benchmark for investment in our common defense."
Trump can further argue that Germany's actions beyond its inadequate defense spending have necessitated this move. At NATO, Trump blasted the Germany-to-Russia Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, declaring "it's a very bad thing for NATO." He's right. The pipeline not only makes Germany more dependent on Moscow for energy, it also risks the security of Poland and other Eastern European allies. Right now, all Russian gas exports to Western Europe go through pipelines that cross Poland and Slovakia -- which means Russia cannot cut off gas to NATO allies in the East without also cutting off its lucrative exports to the West. But once the new pipeline is built, sending gas directly to Germany under the Baltic Sea, Russia will be able to shut off energy supplies to Eastern Europe far more easily. Trump can correctly say that he needs to shore up the security of NATO's East European allies because of the German government's sign-off on the pipeline.

The move would also address a major U.S. strategic concern about its ability to deter Russia. The Post recently reported that U.S. military commanders are worried that if they had to quickly move U.S. troops east to head off a military conflict with Moscow, "the most powerful military in the world could get stuck in a traffic jam" as "Humvees . . . snarl behind plodding semis on narrow roads" and "U.S. tanks . . . crush rusting bridges too weak to hold their weight."
Stationing American forces in Poland would alleviate that problem.
As the Polish government points out in its proposal, "a U.S. permanent presence in Poland [offers] a more forward operating location than Stuttgart provides, would greatly alleviate well founded fears that fellow Eastern European and Baltic governments have that Moscow would be able to overtake defending forces prior to the support of U.S. and NATO forces in Stuttgart could provide."
The move would also benefit U.S. taxpayers. The Polish government has offered up to $2 billion to cover most of the costs of building such a base and supporting U.S. troops in Poland, declaring it is committed "to share the burden of defense spending [and] make the decision more cost-effective for the U.S. government." This should be attractive to Trump, who has criticized other allies for not paying enough for the cost of stationing U.S. forces on their territory.

And there is one last good reason to do it: Poland loves Trump. When Trump spoke in Warsaw last year, his speech was repeatedly interrupted by chants of "Donald Trump! Donald Trump!" Such a response would be unimaginable in Berlin.
The U.S. military presence in Germany is a legacy of the Cold War, when we positioned our forces to deter a Soviet invasion from East Germany. Today the need for deterrence is undiminished, but the potential line of contact has moved east. So should the U.S. military.
A former George W. Bush administration aide, Marc A. Thiessen is a columnist for The Washington Post, where this piece first appears. His work appears frequently on PennLive Opinion.
victor809 Offline
#2 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 1:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Do you honestly think he's about to do this?

Because right now it sounds like your asking a hypothetical question about what some imagined critics may say if he does an unlikely action...

That's some irrelevant navel gazing you're doing there....

That's like your imagining what his critics might say if this man, who can't string a sentence together and has no knowledge of science "cures cancer"... We know he won't do this. If he was an individual with the intelligence to accomplish something like that, the critics you imagine wouldn't exist....
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 1:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Oh yes they would... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#4 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 1:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
How could you possibly know that?
To "cure cancer" he would have to be a completely different person, with a better education, a different career path,which likely would change his interactions with people.

You are presupposing an individuals response to a completely non-existent situation in which you don't even know the conditions. That's... Just.... Dumb....
DrafterX Offline
#5 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 1:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Uhhh.. aren't you doing exactly the same thing..?? Mellow
victor809 Offline
#6 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
No. I'm saying it's an unknown and predicting the outcome is impossible.

I have not stated that any specific things will occur. I have simply stated that conditions would have to be different than they are now, and that would have required changes early on that would spawn a myriad of possibilities, none of which can be predicted.

Essentially, there are a million possible and equally likely outcomes. You and rman want to bet on one... I'm saying there's a million equally possible outcomes and you nearly guarantee you will be wrong by choosing one.

It's almost like religion... even if there were a diety,You know you're choosing the wrong one... (No there is no diety)
RMAN4443 Offline
#7 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 2:03 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Do you honestly think he's about to do this?

Because right now it sounds like your asking a hypothetical question about what some imagined critics may say if he does an unlikely action...

That's some irrelevant navel gazing you're doing there....

That's like your imagining what his critics might say if this man, who can't string a sentence together and has no knowledge of science "cures cancer"... We know he won't do this. If he was an individual with the intelligence to accomplish something like that, the critics you imagine wouldn't exist....

Oh, I'd bet you'd still be there.....

he may not have any "Scientific Knowledge", or be able to string together a sentence, but I heard he figured out how to carry an extra towel to the gym in case the gym doesn't have any clean towels...….Anxious

victor809
Posted: Tue, Mar 13 2018, 8:49 PM
I have a rant. Fxxking gym is out of towels... they'll be ready in 20 min.

But if I don't grab a towel on the way in to the pool I would literally have to walk through the gym in a dripping wet Speedo to get a towel after I swim.

So I'm stuck sitting in the lobby of this damn gym waiting for a towel so I can do my workout.

victor809 wrote:
Why would I bring a towel. Id have to go through 4 towels a week. I don't want to do that kind of laundry. Its part of the damn gym service.


RMAN4443 wrote:
bring a towel and if you don't need it don't use it, but when you do need it you'll have it


MACS wrote:
Wait, whut?

You just out-thinked the resident genius?

I gotta think about this....


victor809 wrote:
Not a terrible idea. I'd need a bigger gym bag but not a terrible idea.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#8 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 2:09 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
How could you possibly know that?
To "cure cancer" he would have to be a completely different person, with a better education, a different career path,which likely would change his interactions with people.

You are presupposing an individuals response to a completely non-existent situation in which you don't even know the conditions. That's... Just.... Dumb....

What if the cure for cancer was a steady intake of diet coke and fox and friends? Pretty sure he's the right guy to make that discovery...
dstieger Offline
#9 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 2:14 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
opelmanta1900 wrote:
What if the cure for cancer was a steady intake of diet coke and fox and friends? Pretty sure he's the right guy to make that discovery...


Toss in a bunch of twitting and a little **** grabbing and Hep C might be eradicated, as well! But, the haters wouldn't hate any less
opelmanta1900 Offline
#10 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 2:26 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
True, true... if, today, he gave every child in the world aids, and then tomorrow morning, he cured it, all anyone would talk about is how he gave kids aids...
delta1 Offline
#11 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 2:32 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
he'd likely do the one, not the other...
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 2:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Trump is trying to f-k all the children in the world?
victor809 Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 2:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Rman... If you think remembering to take a towel to a location that provides it would have a better chance than a scientific education at finding a cure for something.... Then you may be part of the problem.

The world is complicated. The rules which dictate the way the world works are complicated. This is all information which needs to be understood. The myth of a "street smarts" overcoming education on complex issues is simply that... A myth.

RMAN4443 Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Rman... If you think remembering to take a towel to a location that provides it would have a better chance than a scientific education at finding a cure for something.... Then you may be part of the problem.

The world is complicated. The rules which dictate the way the world works are complicated. This is all information which needs to be understood. The myth of a "street smarts" overcoming education on complex issues is simply that... A myth.


Damn, your right again....can't get anything past you....the man,"THE MYTH", the legend....Brick wall
victor809 Offline
#15 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 4:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Don't be so butthurt....
HuckFinn Offline
#16 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 4:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
victor809 wrote:
Rman... If you think remembering to take a towel to a location that provides it would have a better chance than a scientific education at finding a cure for something.... Then you may be part of the problem.

The world is complicated. The rules which dictate the way the world works are complicated. This is all information which needs to be understood. The myth of a "street smarts" overcoming education on complex issues is simply that... A myth.


I mostly agree, but take a look at Henry Ford. Guy was practically illiterate. In addition to being a scumbag. He overcame some complicated issues. The fluck.
RMAN4443 Offline
#17 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 5:07 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Don't be so butthurt....

Just pointing out the fact that you state he "can't put together a sentence" and you can't figure out how to bring an extra towel...kind of like the pot calling the kettle black....Anxious
victor809 Offline
#18 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 5:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Mhmm... Yet between trump and myself, only one understands molecular structure, protein primary, secondary and tertiary structure, how to protein structure impacts ligand binding, how to artificially produce simple proteins in a host cell and a number of other general skills necessary for the development of a cure for anything...and I'm not even getting into the difficult parts....
HuckFinn Offline
#19 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 5:41 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
victor809 wrote:
Mhmm... Yet between trump and myself, only one understands molecular structure, protein primary, secondary and tertiary structure, how to protein structure impacts ligand binding, how to artificially produce simple proteins in a host cell and a number of other general skills necessary for the development of a cure for anything...and I'm not even getting into the difficult parts....

And you don't know how to drip dry without a towel?
Dummy.
RMAN4443 Offline
#20 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 5:51 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Mhmm... Yet between trump and myself, only one understands molecular structure, protein primary, secondary and tertiary structure, how to protein structure impacts ligand binding, how to artificially produce simple proteins in a host cell and a number of other general skills necessary for the development of a cure for anything...and I'm not even getting into the difficult parts....

The man, "THE MYTH ", the legend....


But you couldn't get elected President...Anxious
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 5:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Please rman... Regale us with your intellectual accomplishments... Did you successfully match your garanimals outfit this morning?
RMAN4443 Offline
#22 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 6:00 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Please rman... Regale us with your intellectual accomplishments... Did you successfully match your garanimals outfit this morning?

Don't get all butthurt....Not talking
Speyside Offline
#23 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:11 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
But I can't say anything because he has done nothing at this point on time. But what if he stationed troops in Russia to protect Russia from NATO? Equally plausible since we are speaking in hypothetical situations that have no basis in fact. Thanks for the laugh RMAN.
RMAN4443 Offline
#24 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:14 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Speyside wrote:
But I can't say anything because he has done nothing at this point on time. But what if he stationed troops in Russia to protect Russia from NATO? Equally plausible since we are speaking in hypothetical situations that have no basis in fact. Thanks for the laugh RMAN.

tHe article I quoted is not hypothetical....Poland has made the offer...but glad to know I put a smile on your face...Angel
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:17 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Heard about this about a week ago... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#26 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:30 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Deflecting, Trump accepting IS hypothetical.
RMAN4443 Offline
#27 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:32 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Speyside wrote:
Deflecting, Trump accepting IS hypothetical.

So is Trump's collusion with the Russians. ...
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Only if the offer wasn't on the table.. it's called making a decision now... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#29 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:39 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Beyond possible...if it would possibly weaken Russia, ie, buttress defense against Russian expansion, Trump is out...

Furthermore, the author and the person behind this idea is a former aide to President George W. Bush, all on Trump's enemies list...
Speyside Offline
#30 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:42 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
You haven't heard me speak of collusion. I still believe in innocent until proven guilty. I will wait until Mueller issues a final report. My hope for myself and our county is that president Trump did not collude with Russia. Also, it is certainly debatable as to whether collusion is a crime or not.
DrafterX Offline
#31 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Careful, he might do it just cause you said he wouldn't... Laugh
delta1 Offline
#32 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:49 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Think of "collusion" as a short-hand term popularized to make it easier to grasp the concept of "conspiracy to commit illegal acts that interfere with elections" which IS a crime.
DrafterX Offline
#33 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:56 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Obama told Putin to cut out the meddling... Pretty sure he did after that... Mellow
bgz Offline
#34 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 7:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Seems to be a well thought out opinion to me...

With that said, that's not what I'm impressed with in this thread...

I think I'm becoming more a fan of Drafter's style by the day, man... those one liner victor rage bait posts, pure awesome.

Keep up the good work, lmfao.
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 8:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
He knows I'm kiddin...to many friends here to argue all the time... Laugh
HuckFinn Offline
#36 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 8:30 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
He knows I'm kiddin...to many friends here to argue all the time... Laugh

Aw, shaddup
bgz Offline
#37 Posted: Tue, Jul 24 2018, 9:24 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Ya, it's the style man, the style is gold.

As far as the arguing, I thought that's what all of us were here for :P
Krazeehorse Offline
#38 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 5:31 AM EST
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
Not to drift but in today's world of smart bombs and drones is physical positioning of troops as strategically important as it once was or is it more a show of intense support for the host country?
And as to the OP the headlines would read "Trump Abandons Long Time Allies".
tailgater Offline
#39 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 8:42 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


That's like your imagining what his critics might say if this man, who can't string a sentence together and has no knowledge of science "cures cancer"... We know he won't do this. If he was an individual with the intelligence to accomplish something like that, the critics you imagine wouldn't exist....


I'm quite certain that JFK was not a rocket scientist, yet some believe we did indeed land on the moon because of him.

Your argument is a false one.
You either know that and don't care, or you're just an imbecile who chooses to argue anything Trump.
Or both.
No need to exclude the most obvious.
tailgater Offline
#40 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 8:44 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Trump is trying to f-k all the children in the world?


So he really is a democrat?
victor809 Offline
#41 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 11:22 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Mhmm tail.
Because there aren't a number of government institutions put in place by other presidents already working on curing various cancers.

It's a ridiculous premise. The individual making the claim has to either imagine it as either Trump single handedly curing cancer (the requirements for which would need a completely different timeline) or imagine that somehow he creates an institution (already created) which works towards the cure (already set as a goal across many cancers in our existing government institutions) and starts (impossible in this timeline) and finishes (possible but moot) within his presidency.

At this point you're just grasping at straws. A less ridiculous proposition would be "gets Americans on Mars"... A challenging task which while started I believe has a much longer timeline than his presidency. If he were to accelerate that and push financing to develop a faster way to get people there (if I'm correct, I believe if they left now they would get there the last year of his second term... under current speeds)... That's something he could take credit for. Or any number of other government activities.... But trying to link "find a cure for cancer" to whatever sitting president is there when years and years of research into many different types of cancers, across countries, different institutions, different government funding agencies finally reaches a cure (ironically, depending on the cancer we already have cures)... Is nonsense. I wouldn't put up with that bs from a Dem, and not from an orange lipped trump sycophant.
Speyside Offline
#42 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 11:22 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
If he had been talking about Republicans he would have just mentioned little boys.
dstieger Offline
#43 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 11:29 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Return to forum without posting
delta1 Offline
#44 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:02 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Krazeehorse wrote:
Not to drift but in today's world of smart bombs and drones is physical positioning of troops as strategically important as it once was or is it more a show of intense support for the host country?
And as to the OP the headlines would read "Trump Abandons Long Time Allies".


Bingo...
delta1 Offline
#45 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:08 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
DrafterX wrote:
Obama told Putin to cut out the meddling... Pretty sure he did after that... Mellow


nah... he wanted to see if Obama's "or else" part was serious, so Putin kept it up...then the sanctions were imposed...pizzed Putin off so he decided to help someone he could manip...ummm...work with, so Putin decided to help Trump become the POTUS...lil birdie told me that...
delta1 Offline
#46 Posted: Wed, Jul 25 2018, 12:10 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
which President cured polio, measles, smallpox, chicken pox....
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