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Last post 5 years ago by Mr. Jones. 39 replies replies.
Downloadable 3D guns.
Speyside Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Curious about others opinions about this. I am on TW'S proverbial fence post about this.
teedubbya Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Wear a rubber.
dstieger Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
On what fence? What two opinions do you waver between?
Speyside Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
1) Does this have 2nd amendment protection?
2) Does this open a door for unlimited non traceabile guns?
3) Which is more important, 1 or 2.

My thoughts run as follows. The second amendment takes precedent. Unlimited non traceabile guns is a bad idea.
dstieger Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
So....I suppose that I haven't considered the issue that way.

Additive manufacturing blueprints for gun parts have been available for many years. I didn't realize this is news today....I'll take a look at recent discussions.

My take is that it would be totally impossible to prevent those prints from circulating. We can't even keep child porn from circulating. So, IMO, that genie is out of the bottle - someone that wants to make a gun is going to be able to -- I imagine that someone with some milling machines and lathes could probably make one from metal, too. What laws are preventing those?

I agree with your two points - 2nd amendment good; untraceable guns generally bad --- but, I am completely unaware of any tech or laws (written or considered) that might prevent this

Speyside Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
There had been an ongoing legal issue about releasing plans onto the net. That was recently resolved in favor of allowing plans onto the net.
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ram has a bat... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
IIRC, the initial legal restrictions to open source/sharing of prints revolved around two main risks: untrace-abililty and undetect-ability

I was always more concerned with the later; even the most extreme NRA-types have acknowledged that some restrictions on WHERE guns may be allowed is ok....airplanes, courthouses, etc.

However, not sure how anyone is going to legislate these out of existence ....or even out of mainstream accessibility. I'm open to listening to practical ideas -- but arguments about banning blueprints from open internet sites isn't likely to accomplish much of anything

dstieger Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Still reading news on this....however, this sentence in one article sidetracked me:

"Josh Blackman, an attorney representing Wilson, Defense Distributed’s founder, said he agreed to block Pennsylvanians from accessing the website to avoid a broader injunction."

Wow.....we're becoming China? Can states really block internet stuff that has been approved by feds? I'm a states rights guy, but ....only with a free internet
Speyside Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Had not read that. That would be way to totalitarian.
dstieger Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
After reading/skimming a half dozen 'news' articles, my opinion hasn't changed from five years ago -- governments shouldn't attempt to control the blueprints, even if they think they can

But, I'm not opposed to looking for ways to require traceability and develop tech for detection
ZRX1200 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
MSM talking point of the day. Stay engaged where you're asked to......
Gene363 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,680
It's called freedom, embrace it with gusto.

It's super easy to make a simple firearm from hardware store materials using hand tools. Frankly, it's easier and cheaper than buying and setting up a 3D printer. With a little more work and again, hardware store materials, it's been done before, just google P.A. Luty.

P.A. Luty's Submachine gun Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIhGCRIQnCA
RMAN4443 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
dstieger wrote:
So....I suppose that I haven't considered the issue that way.

Additive manufacturing blueprints for gun parts have been available for many years. I didn't realize this is news today....I'll take a look at recent discussions.

My take is that it would be totally impossible to prevent those prints from circulating. We can't even keep child porn from circulating. So, IMO, that genie is out of the bottle - someone that wants to make a gun is going to be able to -- I imagine that someone with some milling machines and lathes could probably make one from metal, too. What laws are preventing those?

I agree with your two points - 2nd amendment good; untraceable guns generally bad --- but, I am completely unaware of any tech or laws (written or considered) that might prevent this


It's been done at least once that I know of.....Whistle not sure what the laws are but I've been told it's highly illegal...Anxious

something to do with it being unregistered, no serial numbers, and not having a gunsmithing license, no rifling in barrel, possibly other laws against it too...Think

and I heard it takes quite awhile to machine and assemble it....lots of trial and error...not really worth the effort for a one shot pistol, but I bet it would be quite the learning experience, and pretty satisfying knowing it's possible to design and build a working, one shot pistol around a bullet....Anxious
Speyside Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Z, you are definitely consistent. Your dislike of the left is constant.
bgz Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Good luck banning something that's already circulating in the wild.

Not possible, not even worth debating.
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I know a guy who used to machine parts for guns.
There is some kinda law (in new hampshire at least) where you can legally machine all of the gun parts except one. I think it's the barrel, but I forget.
He would sell the parts and people would supply their own barrels (or whatever part it was) and assemble themselves a real gun.

Untraceable.

Now, he could have machined the parts out of a ceramic. Or fortified plastic. Or TW's chia seed induced stool sample.

Today is no different. It's just easier and less expensive.

And access to a 3D printer is as easy as going to your local Maker Fair. Every region has about a dozen every year.

tailgater Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Z, you are definitely consistent. Your dislike of the left is constant.


I think it's sexy too.
ZRX1200 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Tail, 80% lower receivers are untraceable and have to be finished by the customer. That's what's referred to as a ghost gun.

Spey, if you pay attention I'm not a big fan of the right either.
tailgater Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
Tail, 80% lower receivers are untraceable and have to be finished by the customer. That's what's referred to as a ghost gun.


Thank you.

I'm not a gun guy, but I found it fascinating there was such a gaping loophole.
And that was back around 2001 (I was with this guy the day the towers fell). Today it's just silly easy to make a gun.

Buy your ammo making supplies now, because the end result will be a massive tax and/or restrictions on bullets once DC realizes how uncontrollable this has become.

Speyside Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Com on Z I have to be me. Do you really think I am that bent out of shape angry? Or I'm just having fun? Besides, to play the game you need a foil.
ZRX1200 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
I'm just not always sure which one of you I'm talking to, so I've begun to take precautions.
frankj1 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
ZRX1200 wrote:
I'm just not always sure which one of you I'm talking to, so I've begun to take precautions.

code for 3D gun?
ZRX1200 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
I don't own any guns.

They were stolen.

They're scary and I'm afraid of them.
Speyside Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I'd say there is at least 3 of me.
cacman Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Freedom of Information.

Have 3D Printer - can make your own gun.
Have machinist equipment - can make your own gun.

Pretty simple to understand.
ZRX1200 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Got $20, go to hardware store and make a Mexican shotgun.
Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,373
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these large, bulky and made entirely of plastic? The ones I saw test fired where mounted in a bench rest, and the shooter was firing them from a distance using a string around the trigger. I for one will not be firing anything out of a plastic gun. I like my fingers right where they are.

Yes, I know there are now some 3D printers that will print in metal, but they cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. What criminal is going to spend $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 to print their own gun, when they can buy one of the street for a few hundred bucks?

There is one company that is printing an all metal 3D handgun, but they charge $11,000 each, while a traditionally manufactured handgun is +/- $500 and criminals can buy them off the street for far less.

Personally, with current technology, I feel this is a non-issue.

David
Gene363 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,680
Mrs. dpnewell wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these large, bulky and made entirely of plastic? The ones I saw test fired where mounted in a bench rest, and the shooter was firing them from a distance using a string around the trigger. I for one will not be firing anything out of a plastic gun. I like my fingers right where they are.

Yes, I know there are now some 3D printers that will print in metal, but they cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. What criminal is going to spend $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 to print their own gun, when they can buy one of the street for a few hundred bucks?

There is one company that is printing an all metal 3D handgun, but they charge $11,000 each, while a traditionally manufactured handgun is +/- $500 and criminals can buy them off the street for far less.

Personally, with current technology, I feel this is a non-issue.

David


Exactly, but that doesn't prevent gun hater for making hysterical calls for regulation. Frying pan
frankj1 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Gene363 wrote:
Exactly, but that doesn't prevent gun hater for making hysterical calls for regulation. Frying pan

Trump and NRA?
Krazeehorse Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
I was printing a Hi Point but my printer jammed.
bikrtrsh Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 01-29-2009
Posts: 134
Krazeehorse wrote:
I was printing a Hi Point but my printer jammed.


LOL But I bet it was cheap to print!

I'm setting up to build matching 1911's for me and my son. It's legal to build an unregistered gun but not legal to sell one. Anyone with a reasonable mind would stamp serial numbers on their firearms, I'd think. I don't have a reasonable mind so my numbers will be laser etched! (just in case it ever gets stolen) I doubt that I will voluntarily register them tho, I haven't registered one yet. On the other hand, I guess they are registered ... to me ... by me ... for me, in my own files. Complete with build notes and photos.


Mr. Jones Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
I personally think...

IT IS A MASSIVE BUNCH OF B.S.

ALL MEDIA HYPE...

I grew up with guns my entire life.
Always had gun safety taught to me daily at our cabin.
Took the PA game commission youth safety course.

Now...who in their right mind would shoot a gun made of
"Plastic" from a printer?

Maybe a highjacker on an airplane?

Bullets are designed to massive FPS SPECS...
THAT ONLY MILLED STEEL CAN HANDLE...
YOU can't build an AR-15 OUT OF PLASTIC...
IT WOULD "S.P.L.O.D.E." AFTER THE FIRST ROUND...

NOW, that being said...I believe that a partial downloadable plastic gun is very doo-able with certain metal parts and certain plastic parts...but it will never stand up to daily use.
frankj1 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
frankj1 wrote:
Trump and NRA?

I wasn't kidding...
8trackdisco Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,000
Mr. Jones wrote:
I personally think...

IT IS A MASSIVE BUNCH OF B.S.

ALL MEDIA HYPE...

I grew up with guns my entire life.
Always had gun safety taught to me daily at our cabin.
Took the PA game commission youth safety course.

Now...who in their right mind would shoot a gun made of
"Plastic" from a printer?

Maybe a highjacker on an airplane?

Bullets are designed to massive FPS SPECS...
THAT ONLY MILLED STEEL CAN HANDLE...
YOU can't build an AR-15 OUT OF PLASTIC...
IT WOULD "S.P.L.O.D.E." AFTER THE FIRST ROUND...

NOW, that being said...I believe that a partial downloadable plastic gun is very doo-able with certain metal parts and certain plastic parts...but it will never stand up to daily use.


A person I know with some knowledge of the technology called it a sub par, single shot, assassin weapon.
tailgater Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Krazeehorse wrote:
I was printing a Hi Point but my printer jammed.


I'm not a gun guy but even I got that one!

rfenst Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
8trackdisco wrote:
A person I know with some knowledge of the technology called it a sub par, single shot, assassin weapon.


That satisfies me that it should be protected by the first and second amendments.Sarcasm
Mr. Jones Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
#31 krazyhorse
#36 tailgate

I bought a second generation HI POINT 995
9MM CARBINE RIFLE..( LOOKS LIKE A PLANETOF THE APES GUN) FOR $269 WHICH IS AN awesome price around here...
Accepts any 9MM I put in it, never jammed...it kills your cheek bone from the plastic stock...doesn't give like wooden rifle stocks do.

My friend had a first generation 995 carbine...

C.O.N.T.R.A.R.Y. TO your joke and beliefs and
The publics misconceptions about high points...
THE 995 CARBINES AND THEIR CLUNKY PISTOLS
almost never ever ever jam at all...NEVER...
EVEN WHEN WET, SANDY, MUDDY ETC...

WATCH YOU TUBE...

RED "?" , RED DOT MAKES A HIGH POINT APPROVED 20 ROUND MAGAZINE FOR THE CARBINE, ( COMES WITH A 10 ROUND CLIP)....

THEY ARE DESIGNED CLUNKY AND LOOK BAD BUT ARE FUN TO SHOOT AND THE 9MM NATO ROUND IS A GREAT FEATURE...

NO WAY I'M SPENDING $500-600++ ON A RUGER 9MM
CARBINE, They are great but NOT worth the price tag...
One great option it ( ruger carbine) does have is a clip in magazine adapter to accept 32 round block magazines..
That is a super plus +++ for buying one...
Mr. Jones Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
block = GLOCK ^^
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