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Hated those oral book reports in school. Always seemed to get an erection just about the time my name was called.

But I realized that beaver shots were much more abundant from that angle. So there was that.

There goes all THE CUSHY JOBS OF
"SPEECH 101" AT COLLEGES...

TALK ABOUT a joke class...

The teacher does absolutely nothing...all they do is make assignments and doze during the class.

There are no lesson plans....I knew a speech 101 college professor( WITH 3-4 SPEECH CLASSES PER SEMESTER) who would go get drunk at the local bar near my college...all the other profs made fun of him and called him a SLACKER...

Hey, I liked that class. My professor was hot AF... long slender legs... nice perky titties... was probably a carpet muncher... but I would have loved to watch.

The old saying about that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger.....is often used to make fun of unsympathetic hard-azzes; drill sergeants and such...but there's a lot of truth underlying the harsh sentiment.

I feel somewhat similar about 'hazing' for a lot of situations. I certainly don't think that noobs or initiate-ees should be physically harmed or forced to consume alcohol, or do illegal things...and I fully comprehend how extremely difficult to draw lines acceptable to most reasonable people (particularly with drunk or unsupervised initiators) -- however, between various sports, bands, frat, Navy, etc., I was 'forced' to endure things that would never be considered acceptable nowadays. HOWEVER, when used for specific lessons and when I can call upon those experiences, I am much more able to handle adverse situations than I might had I not been put in trying or embarrassing, or difficult situations prior.

Give them their safe space and smart phone. Maybe they can text their presentation.

Learning is sometimes uncomfortable. We should be most concerned with providing a quality education. Yet here is a discussion about emotional wellbeing.

I believe his exact words were "hmmmhhh"

I was really disappointed when I went to orientation at oral roberts university. they lied.

What if the kids have severe physical disformations of da face..??

That's what I thought too, but now I'm not so sure. I read around about it. 

Did you look at the teachers link i posted?


  I know I'm going to get hammered for this, but I also spoke with two close friends who know a lot more than I do about this sort of stuff. One's a clinical shrink/ college prof of psychology, the other a retired middle school shrink. Also with a doctorate.


They've moved me off my mark somewhat. Kids, before they reach college can be irreparably traumatized by presenting according to them. Not your garden variety kid, but really insecure/neurotic ones. It's not worth the trade off they both agreed. I know, I know it's sounds like liberal crap.  


By the time kids get to college they should be  required to give presentations. No excuses.  Before then? if after sitting across from the school shrink it's decided it will hurt the kid's self-image, make the kid a laughing stock to her peers etc, why do it? 


Most kids dread getting up in front of a class. And for them being forced to is probably  a good idea.  For kids who hyperventilate or start trembling or whatever, it's a whole other ball of wax. They need help: alternative/out of the box approaches, maybe even beta blockers . So I disagree with you...they shouldn't be forced.


And because these kids are in the minority and aren't looking to get out of presenting just because it's inconvenient or embarrassing but something much worse, why not give them a break. Why not look for alternatives?

Do we toss the kid in the pool who'se afraid of the water? No. We take a slower approach.
Well some in here toss em I know. Head first. And then look for their beer and cutter.


It's sort of like tough love. I've never been an advocate of stuff like that. We can build kids up if we choose to. And then, and only then, knock em down. Or let the world have a go at them. But try to teach them confidence first. Coach them. Like you said, put them in public speaking classes, even if just to audit, counsel them.

 But why humiliate them?

year after year after year public speaking is reported to be the number one overwhelming anxiety causing situation. Hard to believe but true.

We're not talking about situations that are "uncomfortable". We're talking a whole nutha level. Most of us are fortunate in that we only feel stage fright or butterflies. This is 10 times that.

There are times when telling others (or ourselves) to put your big boy pants on and get 'er done is good, tough, constructive advice. But if one has never suffered from this, then one has no idea of what one speaks.

Sometimes testosterone is not enough.

Certainly we can find alternatives for the real sufferers, but no, not the slackers.

Catholic much?

Yes..... I did enjoy debates... Standing up and talking about stupid chit didn't really work for me tho...

I find it to be extremely helpful...

Mariachi band dudes.. ??

Harsh. But then again, stupid.

From what my wife tells me, according to my 23 year old sons dirty draws, he is uncomfortable wiping his arse properly. My wife asked me if I would talk to him about hygiene. I said nope because if he is uncomfortable not wearing dried chit on his ass and he is uncomfortable to use toilet paper then that is his choice and I didnt want to force any unneeded anxiety on him. I did tell him though to not ever fix any food for me. Just because I have this impression if he feels comfortable about having dried chit on his arse and draws. I think it would be safe to say he probably is uncomfortable washing his hands. Now as to the folks that think these kids should not be forced to speak in public, My son works in a restaurant. He said he would be happy to fix y'all a meal since his daddy now won't eat any food prepared by him.


As to forcing public speaking by kids. Phug em let em be mimes. Lets see how well they deal with the anxiety of others kicking the chit out of em. Nothing like a good mime beating lmaooo.

I have serious mixed feelings on this.

On one hand I say it is a skill that is needed even more in this tech ave

On the other hand, having a child that has been diagnosed with Selective Mutism, I have been through this very dilemma on working with teachers and administrators on how to work around with alternate methods on completing oral presentations.

She is 11 now and while she has made major strides since first being diagnosed in kindergarten when she would not talk to anyone, kids or adults, to where she is now talking to most kids but still not talking directly to teachers.

No worries about "harshness" from me. Having been around here as long as I have i am used to it and can read past all of our chest thumping bravado.

Thanks for your post, Todd. It's an important viewpoint on this. I think the key word is 'diagnosed'. I don't think that any of us who see this as a 'problem' think that kids that live with professionally diagnosed challenges shouldn't be treated/taught somewhat differently in many life/growth situations. But, I do think that allowing the entire population of youth to opt out of challenges is detrimental to them and to society.

I'm most disappointed that this thread has been up for a week without a single anal reference....

Dang, if we are going to be all serious then.


I have to agree with what dave is saying. As a young child I was doing very poorly in school. I did not typically participate in any kind of presentation speaking. I would take a failing grade vs facing the embarrassment. Then later get my arse chewed by my father when report card time came. This was the normal for me.

The thing was, It was finally found out later in late middle school that I had severe dyslexia and was tagged as a child with a learning disorder. I was put in special education and was left in special education until the middle/late part of my HighSchool years. Now what that also tagged me as by the other children was basically one of the windowlickers which of course made the embarrassment worse.

Now, with all that said basically what took place was all the years in special education every day one class period was spent with a teacher one on one that specialized in a type of therapy. She dealt with both my speech and my dyslexia issues. In a nutshell I was re-taught how to read with dyslexia and how to write and speak. What this did for me was once I was re-taught how to do these things my grades shot up and in my senior year in High School I was pulled out of special Ed. The bad part was all those years I had fell to far behind. Even though my last year was spent in normal classes it was very very entry level. I graduated high school with an extremely basic level of education.

Later in life I decided I wanted change and it was time for college. I had to start at the lowest levels of education for both math, english/grammar etc before I could even get in the classes that was required for the career I wanted to follow. Being given the proper tools on how to read, write I speak I was able to tackle it head on. It took me a year just to come up to par. After that year the rest of the courses was competitive entry. Only the best of the best of those that applied are accepted to take the courses and they only select 12 each year all based on past grades and specific test that are given to try and get in. I was one of the 12.

To go from special education to an Associates degree in applied science specializing in neurodiagnostics which led me to later becoming a neurophysiologist was one hell of a battle but a good one. The thing is this would have never happened without (Proper) diagnosis and then given the (alternative method) of teaching to deal with my issues.

As david said allowing the entire population of youth to opt out of challenges is detrimental to them and society. I was not allowed to opt out even with the issues, I was made to learn the proper way by using proper diagnosis and alternative methods. Later in college presentations was a requirement not only in english courses but in psychology as well. A few years later after college and I was well into my career my Professor of Electroneurodiagnostics called me and asked if I would come and speak with his class of first years and I did. I got a call from him a week later and he told me that his students was still going on about that and how well it had helped them. That being the key thing "How well it helped them" I could not have helped them or trained so many other neurophysiologist in the field if I had not been taught how to. I also could not have helped them if I was given the choice to OPT out in my youth.

My apologies for the book.

couple things I'd like to touch on in addition to being proud to know ya...

you pointed out the stigma involved while getting "fixed". some can't persevere and drop out.

In addition to her degrees plus in Speech, my wife took years of extra courses (during all those vacations people like to complain about) and became qualified to test/assess during Summers the developmental levels of kids heading into the town's public schools.

If she could flag them early in or even before their preschool or kindergarten year, it made it possible for many of those in need of service(s) to get in SPED early with targeted ed plans, thereby increasing the chances for mainstreaming them earlier, or at least partially, which has a secondary benefit of lessening the stigma you overcame.