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Last post 5 years ago by RMAN4443. 16 replies replies.
Is there a such thing as a drug related victimless crime?
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Abrignac Offline
#1 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 8:48 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,264
I responded to a post in another thread. Instead of jacking (see what I just did?) the thread.....

The notion that certain offenses are victimless is pure bs. Can’t count the number of times I’ve heard low level drug dealers call their offenses victimless. The of illegal selling of any drug is not without victims. By and large illegal drug usage is by those at what is widely considered the bottom of the social ladder, aka as the poorest of society.

How many tons of drugs are illegally sold to parents whose children do without basic sustenance because their caregiver(s) need their next fix? How many homes, cars, pharmacies and other places are burglarized to obtain drugs to sell or to find objects to sell to illegally purchase drugs. How many healthcare dollars are spent on caring for uninsured patients to treat the aftermath of consuming illegally gotten drugs?

BTW, did I mention I’m in favor of legalizing marijuana?
Burner02 Offline
#2 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 9:19 PM EST
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,879
You probably need some drugs after that 7 overtime loss.

Herfing

I got your back!
Abrignac Offline
#3 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 9:24 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,264
Burner02 wrote:
You probably need some drugs after that 7 overtime loss.

Herfing

I got your back!


Yep, some crappy calls and no calls. That being said, we still don’t have a ready for prime time offense.
Gene363 Offline
#4 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 9:32 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,802
Cause and effect, what people do while high determines the outcome. It's no different with alcohol, some drink responsibly, some do not.

I think the victimless crime label might apply to the use of illegal substances. Not withstanding the legal consequences of the situation, manufacture/sale/distribution, if the user gets high responsibly, it might be considered victimless.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#5 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 9:44 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I was too stoned to read any of that...
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 9:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
Abrignac wrote:
I responded to a post in another thread. Instead of jacking (see what I just did?) the thread.....

The notion that certain offenses are victimless is pure bs. Can’t count the number of times I’ve heard low level drug dealers call their offenses victimless. The of illegal selling of any drug is not without victims. By and large illegal drug usage is by those at what is widely considered the bottom of the social ladder, aka as the poorest of society.

How many tons of drugs are illegally sold to parents whose children do without basic sustenance because their caregiver(s) need their next fix? How many homes, cars, pharmacies and other places are burglarized to obtain drugs to sell or to find objects to sell to illegally purchase drugs. How many healthcare dollars are spent on caring for uninsured patients to treat the aftermath of consuming illegally gotten drugs?

BTW, did I mention I’m in favor of legalizing marijuana?

I have no stats/research to reference now, but I'm not sure the poorest of society actually consume illegal drugs at a higher rate than other levels of earners...but I'm pretty sure if they get found guilty they go to prison by an insanely higher percentage difference...especially for marijuana over recent decades.

btw, would you consider marijuana crimes victimless? not really that much burglary etc. needed for users to raise the money, or so I think.
Abrignac Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 10:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,264
frankj1 wrote:
I have no stats/research to reference now, but I'm not sure the poorest of society actually consume illegal drugs at a higher rate than other levels of earners...but I'm pretty sure if they get found guilty they go to prison by an insanely higher percentage difference...especially for marijuana over recent decades.

btw, would you consider marijuana crimes victimless? not really that much burglary etc. needed for users to raise the money, or so I think.


Marijuana would certainly be on the edge compared to other illegally obtained drugs. Btw, I refer to marijuana a drug because it’s a mood altering substance as is alcohol.

Frank, I don’t think I’m in error on the usage groups. In my LE experience it seems that the lower someone is on society’s ladder the more likely they use illegally obtained drugs.

As far as the part about victimless, it can certainly be said that for example the act itself of a middle aged somewhat affluent person buying marijuana may certainly be victimless. But, I can assure you that there were most likely someone vitimized in the process of getting that product to market. In fact every tax dollar spent to interdict illegally sourced substance creates a victim from any person who pays taxes.

That being said, I did I say I was in favor of legalizing marijuana usage didn’t I?
frankj1 Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 10:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
Abrignac wrote:
Marijuana would certainly be on the edge compared to other illegally obtained drugs. Btw, I refer to marijuana a drug because it’s a mood altering substance as is alcohol.

Frank, I don’t think I’m in error on the usage groups. In my LE experience it seems that the lower someone is on society’s ladder the more likely they use illegally obtained drugs.

As far as the part about victimless, it can certainly be said that for example the act itself of a middle aged somewhat affluent person buying marijuana may certainly be victimless. But, I can assure you that there were most likely someone vitimized in the process of getting that product to market. In fact every tax dollar spent to interdict illegally sourced substance creates a victim from any person who pays taxes.

That being said, I did I say I was in favor of legalizing marijuana usage didn’t I?

yes, you did say you favored legalization, as do I.

How about this, another one without stats at the moment...for the dozens of arrests of low income users and low level street dealers there are virtually zero arrests of affluent importers/distributors...the real folks who leave victims in their wake.
Phil222 Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 10:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Abrignac wrote:
In my LE experience it seems that the lower someone is on society’s ladder the more likely they use illegally obtained drugs.


In your experience, would you say that neighborhoods lower on the socioeconomic scale are more heavily policed, not to mention policed “differently” than those with families of higher (SES)?

If this is true, could it not explain some of your opinions and experiences with drug use and (SES)?

I’m not saying you’re wrong by the way. Just interested in your opinion since you have professional experience with the subject matter.
Just Relax Offline
#10 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 11:30 PM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
I think all addiction problems impact income in a negative way. Gambling, alcohol, and drugs all have the same impact on families. It’s tough not to be poor if you can’t stay away from any of these. Most people partake in some moderation. Having a few joints through the week or having a bourbon with a cigar nightly or a monthly trip to the casino still allows for a normal life. Staying drunk or high tends to cause problems holding down a job and leads to more drinking or harder drugs and petty crimes result as a means the the end. Blowing your check gambling makes it tough to pay bills and have nice things as well. I would think it’s fair to say more addicts have run ins with the law and more addicts are poor, but people from all walks of like routinely partake without run ins with law enforcement because they don’t let it consume them for it to be a noticeable problem.
Phil222 Offline
#11 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 11:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Just Relax wrote:
I would think it’s fair to say more addicts have run ins with the law and more addicts are poor


Are poor people more likely to be arrested? Sure. Are more addicts poor? I’m not so sure. Especially if we’re including alcohol abuse in with that of illegal substances.

I would need to look more closely at some of the research, but similar to Frank, I would guess that individuals from lower and higher (SES) backgrounds would abuse substances at very similar rates. That would be my uneducated guess, anyways...
Abrignac Offline
#12 Posted: Mon, Nov 26 2018, 11:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,264
Phil222 wrote:
In your experience, would you say that neighborhoods lower on the socioeconomic scale are more heavily policed, not to mention policed “differently” than those with families of higher (SES)?

If this is true, could it not explain some of your opinions and experiences with drug use and (SES)?

I’m not saying you’re wrong by the way. Just interested in your opinion since you have professional experience with the subject matter.


I wouldn’t say it’s because certain neighborhoods or more heavily policed than others. Drive around different class neighborhoods. Keep your eyes open and pay attention to your nose. In poorer neighborhoods you’ll find higher unemployment and more folks using illegal substances. In more affluent neighborhoods you find lower unemployment which means at face value there a high % of residents working and a lower % of substance abuse.

Painting with broad strokes, but it’s a fair reflection of the issue.
Phil222 Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Nov 27 2018, 12:07 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I gotcha. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the subject and I apologize for steering away from the main topic. Carry on, gentleman.
ZRX1200 Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Nov 27 2018, 12:30 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,583
When Bill Cosby returns my call I’ll finish my post.
MACS Offline
#15 Posted: Tue, Nov 27 2018, 11:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,751
frankj1 wrote:
I have no stats/research to reference now, but I'm not sure the poorest of society actually consume illegal drugs at a higher rate than other levels of earners...but I'm pretty sure if they get found guilty they go to prison by an insanely higher percentage difference...especially for marijuana over recent decades.

btw, would you consider marijuana crimes victimless? not really that much burglary etc. needed for users to raise the money, or so I think.


CA has made mere possession of drugs a misdemeanor. Cite and you're on your way. Since the prison system here is overcrowded, instead of building more, they just release non-violent offenders in what is called a "federal release" or "fed kick" as the criminals call it. Ya see... the feds gave CA a certain amount of time to comply with their housing rules (for criminals, mind you) and they didn't.

So now ol' Jerry Brown just lets 'em go!! Steal a car? No problemo... collect your money for stealing it, serve a few days and they let you out! No probation, no parole... you're free! So in essence, CA is saying crime DOES pay, and criminals have heard them... which means more get arrested and brought to jail, and then released... etc.

No consequences for bad behavior. Crime is up.
RMAN4443 Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Nov 28 2018, 12:45 AM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
So, business is booming...ThumpUp
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