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Scrap the electoral college system?
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Gene363 Offline
#51 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 12:49 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,799
tailgater wrote:
The 19th amendment.




Rimshot! LOL






When everything started going downhill.
delta1 Offline
#52 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 2:17 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
all of which is sufficient argument that the electoral college is an anachronism, one that should be modified to reflect the current state of affairs....

the founding fathers never imagined that slaves and women would be allowed to vote, nor that the production from farms would be less important to the well-being of the new union's economy...that the rest of the US citizens would be paying farmers to keep them afloat because their crops have been rendered less valuable by a decision made by the POTUS...

they prolly woulda thought cyber space was where a gentleman safely kept his sword...
Gene363 Offline
#53 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 2:28 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,799
Everyone can vote now, the slave references are a red herring. The electoral college assures smaller States are not run over by larger States.
delta1 Offline
#54 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 2:51 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
the current system provides for 6 states with less than one million people in them, a total of 4.5MM people, to have the same amount of Senate power as the six most populated states with more than 132MM people...

this can lead to a tyranny of a minority...think of a super-powered minority...Freedom Caucus?

the Senate was thought to be the residence of the best and brightest citizens, the ones the founding fathers sought to ensure had their hands on the union's reins of power...they didn't trust the masses, the common citizen...does this elitist model still apply?
SmokeMonkey Offline
#55 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 04-05-2015
Posts: 5,688
So, Delta, the premise of the Senate was to provide equal representation to each state, regardless of population. That provides a balance to the House. I think, regardless of changing demographics or economic drivers, that system is still as it should be. However, we stopped electing our best and brightest a long time ago.

As a lefty in a deeply red southern state, I’m absolutely for keeping the Electoral College.
frankj1 Offline
#56 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
you should post more often, monkeyman. Your unique minority view deserves to be heard and would likely be enlightening to those of us on both sides who think we already know everything.
frankj1 Offline
#57 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 6:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
Gene363 wrote:
Rimshot! LOL






When everything started going downhill.

I missed this opportunity to credit my friend tailgater.
Thanks for catching it, Gene.
Gene363 Offline
#58 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 7:19 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,799
frankj1 wrote:
I missed this opportunity to credit my friend tailgater.
Thanks for catching it, Gene.

Herfing
borndead1 Offline
#59 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 10:36 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,215
I think the electoral votes should be proportional rather than winner takes all. The current system basically negates the votes of people who voted for the candidate who comes in second place, even if that vote tally is 51% to 49%.
frankj1 Offline
#60 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 10:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
borndead1 wrote:
I think the electoral votes should be proportional rather than winner takes all. The current system basically negates the votes of people who voted for the candidate who comes in second place, even if that vote tally is 51% to 49%.

so here in MA, I voted third party because I wanted my vote to matter.

Hillary was gonna win big, my vote wouldn't matter.
Trump was gonna lose big, my vote wouldn't matter.
Johnson had no shot, but if he got 15%, a third party would on the stage in future national debates...a few votes could matter.
SmokeMonkey Offline
#61 Posted: Sun, Jan 6 2019, 11:03 PM EST
Joined: 04-05-2015
Posts: 5,688
frankj1 wrote:
you should post more often, monkeyman. Your unique minority view deserves to be heard and would likely be enlightening to those of us on both sides who think we already know everything.


After a bizzaro run in with a board member that doesn’t post much anymore, I opted to limit my contributions to the political threads.
frankj1 Offline
#62 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
SmokeMonkey wrote:
After a bizzaro run in with a board member that doesn’t post much anymore, I opted to limit my contributions to the political threads.

DMV?
don't worry about him, he's fine.
DrafterX Offline
#63 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 1:50 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
For sure, we shared some Cubans food once... ThumpUp
delta1 Offline
#64 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 1:57 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
dude...with all that money you make, you still rip off some poor Cuban's food...kinda exemplifies our discussion in the "wealth redistribution" thread...."shared" is con code for took.............smh...
SmokeMonkey Offline
#65 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 04-05-2015
Posts: 5,688
frankj1 wrote:
DMV?
don't worry about him, he's fine.


Ha! Not DMV. It got really weird over PM.
delta1 Offline
#66 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 2:06 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
this is not a real place...just a way station where you can throw stuff against the wall...all of the guys who express con views that I have met from this site are cool people whom I consider friends...
dstieger Offline
#67 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 2:20 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
To get this back on track.....Maybe the solution is to revoke statehood for Wyoming and Vermont. What have they done for us lately?
Maybe some criteria to remain a state in good standing....reviewed every 5 years or so....ND and AK are drilling and pumping...they can stay...at least until the oil runs out. But South Dakota? If we could move Mt. Rushmore, I'd say make them a territory.
DrafterX Offline
#68 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 2:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Move Mt Rushmore..?? Wasn't it bad enough to deface a holy and sacred mountain..?? Now you want to move it too..??

Damn white dudes.. Not talking
dstieger Offline
#69 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 2:32 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
OK...leave it....I always harbored a secret sense that it is a bit kitschy anyway....didn't know it was important before it was....'defaced'.....but that was a pretty funny turn of phrase
DrafterX Offline
#70 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 2:56 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/rushmore-sioux/

Mellow
dstieger Offline
#71 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 3:07 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I get it. Reconciling our history with Native Americans is difficult. But is Rushmore much different than any other square inch of the country that once belonged to Native Americans?
In fact, maybe it could be argued that the Sioux actively surrendered their claims when they chose to fight rather than assimilate. May not have been a fair war, but the world's history is pretty consistently filled with conquering empires gaining all rights to conquered lands.
By the way, the article doesn't say why the Mountain is sacred.....or I missed it. Was it more special than other mountains in the Black Hills?
DrafterX Offline
#72 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 3:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
That's where CROS' family is from... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#73 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 3:14 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Good article here.....I think.....anyway, I enjoyed it...thanks for the lesson, X
http://www.startribune.com/the-real-history-of-mount-rushmore/388715411/
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 3:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Was a long time ago... I was just kiddin and stuff... Not somethin we wanna forget but no sense dwelling on it either... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#75 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 3:46 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I was kidding about dumping South Dakota, too....sorta
SmokeMonkey Offline
#76 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 3:47 PM EST
Joined: 04-05-2015
Posts: 5,688
delta1 wrote:
this is not a real place...just a way station where you can throw stuff against the wall...all of the guys who express con views that I have met from this site are cool people whom I consider friends...


Absolutely agree with this. I just opt to contain weirdness where I can control it. That said, I read most of the political threads, I just seldom comment.

Although off topic, I am a firm believer that any state (or the country as a whole) dramatically skewed in either direction is going to be governed less well that one with a near 50/50 split and the potential for corruption increases exponentially.
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 3:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Laugh

I'm sure the Sioux would take it back... Laugh


I think Wyoming had some heavy drilling going on a couple years ago too... Think
frankj1 Offline
#78 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
DrafterX wrote:
That's where CROS' family is from... Mellow

what a great answer!
DrafterX Offline
#79 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 4:13 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
It's all I could think of... But the mountain was most likely a burial grounds or somethin... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 4:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
I remember asking Grandma about some old burial grounds I had heard of out at the Wichita Mountains.. she confirmed but strongly urged me to stay away so I did... I could prolly still find them tho... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted: Mon, Jan 7 2019, 7:37 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
read both your link and Dave's.
Opened my eyes for sure, like when I read Killers of the August Moon.
tailgater Offline
#82 Posted: Tue, Jan 8 2019, 1:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
read both your link and Dave's.
Opened my eyes for sure, like when I read Killers of the August Moon.


And that time you mistook ben-gay for prep-H.
frankj1 Offline
#83 Posted: Tue, Jan 8 2019, 2:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
tailgater wrote:
And that time you mistook ben-gay for prep-H.


I still think you purposely mislabeled them...
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